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Microsoft Code in Every HD-DVD Player

Neophytus writes "The DVD Forum steering group has given preliminary backing to Microsoft's VC-9 codec along with H.264 and MPEG-2 as mandatory playback modes for HD-DVD players. Having this technology, the most fundamental part of Windows Media Player 9, in every new DVD player could well give Microsoft major leverage into the Cable and Satellite TV markets where currently MPEG2 dominates. The approval is pending an update in licencing terms and other conditions within 60 days."

12 of 375 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Hmm... by dcaulton · · Score: 5, Informative

    No, no. This has nothing to do with DRM. It's a video codec.

  2. Re:Hopefully... by Neophytus · · Score: 5, Informative
    As a condition to Microsoft before it could establish VC-9 as a standard, it had to strip VC-9 of proprietary status, Majidimehr said. The company satisfied that condition when it submitted the underlying video compression technology to SMPTE last year and opened up its software to developers for the first time. Now developers can download the technical spec, build on it and not be beholden to Microsoft.
    Unlike some submitters, I RTFA :-)
  3. Re:what are the licensing terms? by KrackHouse · · Score: 5, Informative

    Good question. It's patented so they can charge if they want. http://www.internetnews.com/bus-news/article.php/3 305461 Patent 6,510,177, granted by the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office on Jan. 21, is entitled "System and method for layered video coding enhancement." Patent 6,683,980, issued Jan. 27, is entitled "System and method for compressing data." Both touch on the same development; one is systems oriented, the other is focused on bit-level encoding. Now here is an interesting dilemma. We want open technology to spur innovation by preventing lethargic mega-corporations from relying on old royalties. In this case, MS has created something that is better than what is offered by Open Source. Do we give up on good technolgy simply because it comes from Microsoft? Especially when our goal is to make technology more accessible? I think we should because when the hardware stabilizes OSS will eventually catch up and the industry could become too dependant on MS. I'm willing to sacrifice in the short run if my progeny don't have to pay through the nose to watch PBS in high definition.

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  4. Re:Hmm... by jimbosworldorg · · Score: 5, Informative
    I'm not quite sure how it gives them leverage to "toss in DRM", since the codec effectively became frozen as a standard when they submitted it to SMPTE.

    Microsoft will no longer be the ones to control revisions added to the codec if it's approved. SMPTE will be.

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  5. Re:Hmm... by dcaulton · · Score: 5, Informative

    I think it's nearly certain that HD-DVD and other formats will include SOME DRM since DVD has some today. But this announcement is limited to video codecs. The decision around DRM choice will be independent of video.

  6. Re:Here we go again by minus_273 · · Score: 5, Informative

    funny, media player certainly works fine on OSX new update is quite nice..

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  7. Re:what are the licensing terms? by B2382F29 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Every modern codec requires licensing fees.

    Like this?

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  8. Re:what are the licensing terms? by hummassa · · Score: 5, Informative

    Hmmm, you are talking about this...

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  9. Excuse me, but royalties are paid on DVDs TODAY by StandardCell · · Score: 5, Informative

    You do realize that DVDs today, utilizing only MPEG-2, require payment of royalties to the MPEG-2 Licensing Association. Furthermore, if you enable Macrovision, CSS, or Dolby Digital audio, you are also paying royalties to the respective organizations because they own patents regarding these technologies. See Section 6.1 of the DVD Demystified FAQ for details.

    Neither MPEG-2 nor the other technologies that are part of the DVD standard are free (save for possibly PCM audio). Furthermore, the hardware royalties are quite nominal as shown by the proliferation of DVD players, on the order of less than a dollar as the FAQ shows clearly. MPEG-4 Part 10 (aka H.264) and MPEG-2 are still available for use in authoring DVDs. Nobody is forcing anyone to use WMV9 if they don't want to. Just because Microsoft's CODEC is included in the standard doesn't mean that they're taking over anything. It's not mandatory.

  10. Re:Yeah by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 5, Informative

    Just talk to Microsoft. Or go look at their site, it's all layed out there. $0.10USD per copy was the going rate last I checked.

    It's no different than MPEG-4. An open, but not free, standard that you pay a royalty to the owner to use. Open standards can still be patented, all it means is that the technology is open to the world and there is a standard licensing fee that anyone can pay to use said technology.

    Firewire would be another example. It's not a free technology, Apple owns it and you have to pay them royalties to use it. However the technical spec is open for anyone to look at and provided you pay the royalties, Apple is happy to have you implement their technology.

    This is actually an example of the patent system working as it should. A company does research, makes the results available to the world to use, and profits from it. That was the intent as perscribed in the constitution.

  11. Re:Hmm... by dcaulton · · Score: 5, Informative

    perhaps should clarify. distributing mpeg-2 decoding or encoding without paying a license fee to MPEG-LA is illegal. This is why linux distros pretty much never ship with DVD playback built in. however, I agree that CSS and other DRM schemes are a much bigger challenge to OSS than license fees, which can always be done with separate, binary distributions.

  12. Re:what are the licensing terms? by takev · · Score: 5, Informative

    Well, I've been a Python programmer for years and I can tell you that it like VB is not only a prototype language, altough people think when they first look at the language.

    It is also not a "pure" OO language, you can write linear script like, write procedural, even pure functional and ofource OO, or combine them all. Although the syntax is pretty strikt unlike perl, the way you can program is very open.

    I'm not a windows programmer, but I have played with Python under windows, and a large part of the windows API is exposed "as standard" in python.

    It is also very easy to add API and callbacks in Python. For example I build in a few days a coupling that alowed python to be used as a TopEnd (Transactional middleware) service/application component. (You were talking about transaction based systems)

    Now, I'm sure not everything you mentioned are already exposed to python, but the parent also told about a full decade, that is 10 years.
    And I am sure You could make everything you put in that list by yourself in a year, including learning python language and concept.

    Python is very easy to pick up, even by non-programmers. There are people teaching Python to their 6 year olds. I've noticed there is even turtle graphics (from the old LOGO language) in Python.

    Also the interactive python interpreter is very nice, you can test and learn concepts on its command prompt. even making TCP connections, opening windows, changing fields in excel, or connecting to a transaction system.

    My languages of choice are Python/C, I know many more languages, but I don't need more. (except for work, but that is not by choice). I use C mostly if things needs to be fast (such as image, video or audio processing) or if I want to expose a API to Python.

    Now, I'm certan that technicaly VB can easely be replaced by Python. There are many political reasons that this may not be the case.