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Cincinnati Gets Broadband Over Power Lines
kotj.mf writes "According to the Cincinnati Enquirer, Cincinnati-area electric utility Cinergy has become the first electric utility in the country to offer broadband over power lines. There's also a press release. At $29.95/month for 1 Mb/s both upstream and down, it's only a few bucks more than the local dialup providers. Can we expect the power companies to start giving Cable and DSL providers a run for their money? Finally, my town gets AHEAD of the times, for once."
I wonder if they will deliver on the promise of 1 mb/s upstream. Getting a megabit down is common place these days, but that kind of upload bandwidth would be nice to have for 30 bucks a month...
-dewhite
Ham Radio will interfere with it severely, and there won't be a damn thing the provider can do because it's under FCC part 15, which must accept any harmful interference, especially from PROPERLY LICENSED services. Of course, the same rules will also hold the power company for any interference caused to the amateur radio service. Don't expect this to be available for long. Maybe now everybody will see that it doesn't work and let the abomination die like it should.
Why is it that the (currently) most controversial method of broadband internet access gets symmetric speeds by default? Are power companies the only ones to realize that it makes sense to give identical upload and download?
print 'Hello world!';
http://compbrain.net
so what are the interference ramifications of this?? i still hear people complain about this. i think the biggest thing to note is the price. im under the impression that cable/dsl are typically 40-50 around the US. if this is an indication, then i think power internet will become prevelent quickly. cheaper and more widely available (theoretically)
I live in a pretty big apartment, and my landlord takes care of all of the electricity. Will I still be able to get broadband over power lines? I assume they should be able to work it like a cable modem (i.e. everyone in the building is on the same cable line), but don't know technical details about broadband over power lines.
With that bandwidth at that price, Cincinatti gamers will be some serious LPB's. I am filled with gaming envy.
"You know Myra, some people might think you're cute. But me, I think you're one very large baked potato."
Am I missing something?
Indeed, a fairly high bandwidth pipe utilizing existing infrastructure. What's not "special"? The only line going into someones house that's more pervasive than the phone line are power lines. And no mention of dsl's distance woes. Big news indeed. If it comes here, I'm all over this.
another area's ham radio operators get it up the arse
73 de F8EJF
Considering that the power line is (drum roll please) a giant freaking antenna, all you really need to tap into someone's traffic is a radio receiver.
Yay! Now we get to have the detriments of wireless systems (interference, monitoring by third parties, etc.) without any of the benefits of, well, being wireless.
Dumbest idea ever.
I live just north of Cinci and the local DSL provider (Zoomtown) just bumped their customers up to 3/1 MbPS (something like $40 a month). Roadrunner cable (~$45 a month I believe) is also a big competitor in the area. Cool technology, but are they really going to get a big market share with cheap slow dial-up at $10 less a month and bigger band at $10-15 more? Seems to me they need to increase their speed to compete with broadband or lower their price to compete with dialup.
1: Could someone with a properly configured radio reciever monitor traffic over this system wirelessly?
2: If it's possible to monitor signals with radio equipment, could you transit? Is it unreasonable to call this analagous to the power co. deciding they're going to switch all their equipment over a wireless network?
they could only get 500 meter from the substation. Any transformer between you and the substation. Ok for city broadband but not much use for rural.
In a major catastrophe, isn't it fairly likely that power lines will be down anyway (thereby eliminating HAM interference)?
A modern day witchhunt.
yes, I know FEMA depends on it. Yes, I know it's valuable in emergencies. Two points:
1) if there's an emergency, the power's probably out, and ham will work anyway. If you want to practice, do what amateur astronomers do and go out in the country where I can guarantee they won't have this. It's nice to get out of the city anyway.
2) If ham radio dies, there will be something to replace it in your life. Most of the longtime computer users I knew where I grew up got into it in the Altair days as an extension of ham radio. If you don't want something different, well, I knew a lot of people that loved to ride 3-wheeled ATVs, and hated quads, but they got used to them. the times they are a-changin' and all that shit.
Don't drag down progress by clinging to an anachronism. Please.
First, this isn't a "first in the nation", even though the article claims it is. We've had BPL in Manassas for a few months now. I'm pretty sure I've also heard about a city in Florida and somewhere out west, but I'm too lazy too search Google for them.
On the impact to Telcos, Qwest has announced "naked" DSL where you don't need to purchase dial-tone to get DSL and one of the reasons they cited for packaging it that way was to compete with BPL.
The party of stupid and the party of evil get together and do something both stupid and evil, then call it bipartisan.
If nothing it will at least put some pressue onto the DSL and Cable proivders (quite possably Satalite aswell) and maybe make them lower their rates or push even more speed out of their lines to keep their customer from hopping onto this for the higher upload. Also should be an interesting read of their AUP to see if they allow people to run personal web servers on their connections or not.
GeekLeak.com - Silly name, serious geeks
Cable lines are shielded (COAX); power lines aren't (and can't be, really, at those power levels).
DNA just wants to be free...
The majority often times rules. Or at least lately those with the most money make the rules/laws.
I think it is fair to say that the vast majority of computer/internet users would side with $30/month symmetrical 1Mbps.
Nothing personal and I'm not trying to offend anyone.
Who will guard the guards?
You don't have to go back very far in slashdot to find articles about DSL, or wireless, either. What this tells me is that there is no need to use government monoploy power over any high-speed Internet ventures. Power companies are offering high-speed Internet access because they believe they can make a profit at it. Other companies (cable, DSL, satellite) think they have the best way.
The good news for us: We get to sit back and enjoy high-speed Internet at better availability and prices, and with no government interference. All thanks to the folks that brought you the free market!
You forgot Jerry Springer, the Ex-Mayor Now Television Dude, who was busted paying for hookers with the city checkbook:)
OH and that when people there dont understand you they say "Please ?" instead of "Excuse Me ?" or "Im sorry what was that ?" This always leads too all kinds of fun conversations the first time you visit.
Even worse if you consider that you cannot use a Surge arrestor or suppressor as they BLOCK RF over power line signals. i.e intercoms or X10...
I just love how people here at slashdot are so smart. They know about every virus that comes out and can set up a zillion services on a zillion different computer platforms. But, when it comes to actual networking they are a bunch of chowderheads with nothing to do but speculate and make jokes.
I have run networks over the powerlines of companies for about 10 years now. First it was serial communications to control facilities (AC) and the like. This is nothing new. Nowadays many homeowners use power connects for their computers and have X10 stuff in their house for home automation as well. Cisco makes stuff for this. You guys are scared of it because you have not seen it. Once you see it then you'll be all into and pretend you were never the luddites that you are right now.
The only real problems with this technology is the need for a frequency router to connect different phases of power together. Again, this has been for ten years as well. Next time you go into your companies network room (if they let you in there) go and look at the UPS. See if it has a box with a 9 pin dshell on it that is connected to a wall socket. Then go and look at the AC system. Then marvel over ancient technology that was under your noses for 10 years.
Run away screaming now. The Outlets are alive.
Broadband over power has benefits in that it's (generally) faster than dsl, requires no additional wiring, last mile costs are already taken care of. The problem is that it interferes with the HF radio band. The millitary is hosed. Ham radio is hosed. Ship to shore communication is hosed (Guess what...carefully aiming a satellite dish at a satellite on a rolling ship is hard to do). Long range aircraft communication is hosed (VHF is good for 140 miles at 30,000 feet. 140 miles ins't 1400 miles or 2800 miles and the ocean is a big place). It would be ok if they could get rid of the interference. Shielded power lines maybe? Just replace the grid and all house wiring (in all houses everywhere) and you are fine!
Obviously you know absolutely nothing of how large scale emergencies are handled, with respect to communication.
ARES, Amature Radio Emergency Services, steps up with the communications infrastructure is gone, due a disaster, natural or man-made.
Basically, a bunch of well-trained hams setup radio stations and manage the creation of an ad-hoc radio communications infrastructure when the main one goes down.
The World Trade Center had communcations by end of day, or end of the next day due to ARES going into motion and getting base-stations setup, probably all running on generators, so that those on-site trying to find survivors could communicate with each other and the outside world.
Now, with BPL, while you're trying to get this setup (becase the land-lines are gone, and the cell system is a laughingstock that's overran by people trying to call home), you've got the powerlines all radiating a ton of crap out in the airwaves. This is probably people trying to use their internet connection, even though the power's out, and they've got their generator running (those of us in certain more rural areas pretty much are required to own one to stay funcitonal).
All that background noise just makes it that much harder to communciate.
I love it when people post like this. BPL radiates hundreds of watts on spectrum used for worldwide communication. Hams use this same spectrum for that very communication. It doesn't matter if you're in a third world country or New York, any BPL system will junk the entire world's spectrum.
But that's not what's fun about this post. It has been shown that as little as 1 watt on an amateur frequency will knock out or severely degrade BPL in a 4 block radius. Hams can, and many do, transmit as many as 1500 watts. No 1mbps in my neighborhood.
On Apple Input Peripherals: They're okay, I guess, but I was really hoping for a one-key keyboard and a 109-button mouse
I chose DSL over Cable because I could get a static IP with no ports blocked. What will the electric company offer?
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
> they say "sweep" rather than "vacuum"
Sweep is the more general verb that applies whether you're using a vacuum,
a broom, or whatever. (But not a wet-mop; then you'd be mopping.) It's
easier to say and to spell than "vacuum", so it tends to be used somewhat
more often in most of the midwestern US (at least). "Sweep" (and "sweeper"
for the equipment) is definitely more common than "vacuum" throughout most
of Ohio, northern Indiana, and western Michigan; I'm not sure how far beyond
those areas this usage extends, but it's definitely not particular to just
Cincinnati.
> and they leave out "to be", for instance, "the carpet needs swept".
I don't think that's an ellision of an infinitive; I think it's rather a use
of the past participial form as a predicate adjective. Some places prefer to
use the present participial form ("the carpet needs sweeping" -- this seems
to be particularly prominent in the UK), but in most of Ohio (at least) the
past participial form is more common in this construct.
If it were an elided infinitive, one would expect to see infinitives elided
in other circumstances (e.g., infinitives of completion), but the construction
in question always seems to occur with linking verbs. So I think it's a
participle used as a predicate adjective. If you can think of a verb whose
past participial form differs in pronunciation from its infinitive form, I'll
try out the sound of that verb's forms in this construct and let you know
which one sounds "right" to my ear. (I've lived in Ohio long enough (and in
enough different parts of Ohio) to know that Bucyrus is pronounced with one
syllable and Mohican with two, that "Ohio" doesn't have any long O sounds in
it, what a sammich is, and what you get when you put a red wig on ET[1].
I've also lived in Indiana and Michigan enough to know what's peculiar to
Ohio and what's not.)
[1] Dorothy Fuldheim
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
Supposedly there will be capabilities to notch out specific interfering frequencies, but we'll see, I'm very skeptical.
And just to answer questions before they get asked, yes cable television also overlaps frequencies for a lot of other services, but cable television signals are contained in a shielded coax cable, separate from the rest of the universe. BPL signals will not be, instead they'll basically be running on huge, miles-long random-wire antennas.
On the other hand, I'm curious as to whether someone with the correct radio equipment could monitor the BPL signal -- wouldn't be able to "use" it for internet access because injecting the upstream signal would be a problem, but you could at least see everything that was flowing up and down the wire. Like a wireless packet sniffer.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
OK, the article says that it's got 1mbps symmetrical, which is huge. But, what kind of latency will we be talking about here? After all, that's what really matters in games. Any new subscribers/beta testers want to pipe up?