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Lifestyle Computers, the Next Big Thing?
Anonymous Howard asks: "Lifestyle computers, otherwise known as 'computers with everything contained in a single unit', are extremely popular in Japan, where living spaces are much smaller then in the North America. Probably the most popular that I know of that was released are the Apple iMacs. Many of the major manufactures like Sony and HP have released Lifestyle computers, like the Sony PCV-W20. What I like to see are the unique stylings from companies I've never heard of over in Japan, like the Sotec Afina AS7180AV, I think it looks somewhat like a high heel shoe from the side. How many of you would find these types of computers useful? In particular, if you are living in a space where you are not cramped for space, would you ever buy one? Are there any other interesting machines like the Sonys/Afina/new iMacs that not only have function, but act as a stylish addition to the room?"
If they're anything like the iMac was, they won't sell well because the hardcore geek crowd will reject them.
Remember, kiddies: Upgrading is FUN!
Goo goo g'joob.
I've got a PCV-120. Actually, I've had it for well over a year and a half (they're not exactly new)
My impressions of it are as follows: It's not a performance-thrilling machine, but makes up for it where it counts. It's small, has DVD/CDRW, and a flash reader, so you shouldn't need any external devices
I really like the fold-up keyboard, though I do wish it were detachable if you ever desired to use a real keyboard, as the built-in one is little more than a laptop keyboard (though it's a pretty damn nice laptop keyboard at that). My favorite part, though, is quite simple... The screen is protected by a 1/4 inch piece of plexiglass! Making it imprevious to liquids and other stuff (though I don't believe the keyboard has any sort of protection which is probably an oversight)
My only practical complaints are that it has intergrated video and the built-in speakers are somewhat tinny. Apart from that, it's a pretty sweet PC.
-- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
Lifestyle computers, otherwise known as 'computers with everything contained in a single unit', are extremely popular in Japan, where living spaces are much smaller then in the North America. Probably the most popular that I know of that was released are the Apple iMacs.
What about Apple's own Powerbook and iBook? And all the notebooks from other companies? How does a notebook not county as a 'computers with everything contained in a single unit'. iMacs have never quite met this definition, having the keyboards as a separate part.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Spelling correction in title.
The two "lifestyle" machines shown in the links even look like laptops. The Sofec is like laptop frozen in a certain open position, thus lacking the "adjust for optimal viewing" ability that hinged laptops have. Neither has a separated keyboard, which makes the comparison to the iMac all the more out of place.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
I didn't look at these particular ones, but ones I've seen in the past have been underpowered and non-upgradeable, and haven't been too great at compatibility (proprietary parts for size). These same features make them difficult to repair if a part goes bad.
This removes the gamer and geek markets.
It could be good as a POS typing/intarweb kiosk, but they're generally too expensive given the purpose.
I guess the niche is the stupid rich (like that dilbert comic where dogbert has the Punnet-type square showing stupid/smart and rich/poor and saying stupid/rich is the target market), and seem to buy a lot - maybe it's not such a dumb idea (for the company) after all.
Count these as "stiff notebooks". They are a level below the iMac, which has had adjustable keyboard/monitor position: you don't compromise as much.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Sure I live alone in a 4 bedroom house, but I can only be in one place at a time. I can only type on one keyboard at a time. I could in theory use 4 mice at a time (one in each hand, and a trackball for each foot), but my brain can't deal with all that at once. I have room for at most 3 montiors (As if I could afford that many) on my desk, but looking at more than one at a time is a challenge. Better if I use periferal vision, but that is completely different interaction and not as useful. I can get some feedback from audio, but not much.
Thus I spend most of my time in one room, and I don't even use even half the space in it. My body is just too limited to deal with anything more. The problem I need solved isn't physical space, it is useful space. In Japan they have limited physical space, so they must use it well. My physically space is for practical purposes unlimited. Me and my counterpart in Japan have essentially the same useful space limitations. Let me know when the come up with an advance to deal with those limits, and I'll be interested.
These "lifestyle" machines have all the disadvantages of a notebook - with none of the advantages:
* Performance is questionable
* They're not upgradable.
* They're not portable.
* They're expensive.
They kind of look like toys, too. I don't think they would be taken seriously by fans of notebooks or fans of desktops.
How many of you would find these types of computers useful?
You have to be in the market for a notebook computer and a desktop - and be willing to settle on something with the disadvantages of both. The technically inclined would already have a bias towards a more complete solution (full-function immobile desktop / mobile notebook). So I can only see these devices selling to the clueless, to the occasional computer users, or where fashion and looks are more important (secretary's machine on the front-desk / high-end shops, etc).
In particular, if you are living in a space where you are not cramped for space, would you ever buy one?
Not a chance. Full-function and lower price would win out any time. And even if space were a premium, I'd buy a notebook computer instead of one of these "lifestyle" machines:
* In cramped living spaces, it's preferable to use a notebook computer while lying in bed - or while lounging on the sofa. You can even take your work with you to a local cafe.
* In cramped work environments I could see the appeal, but it's still going to be more expensive than a mini-ATX cube case and separate flat panel.
* In cramped mobile work environments (back of a truck, car, plane, hot-air balloon), I imagine the lower power consumption of a notebook would be desirable.
Frankly I can see this. In the last two or three years I've taken to using my laptop for EVERYTHING and basically never touching my desktops. I'm even thinking of selling them. If I didn't need the portability of my laptop, I would almost certainly buy one of these "all in one" computers. I've really come to like the simplicity and size savings that a laptop or very small desktop provides.
I've come to realize that I don't neede all those seperate parts. I don't really play games too much, but when I do my laptop has enough power despite it's age. So a all in one desktop (which would be even more powerful) would be fine. I don't need 12 drive bays. I don't need 3 CD drives (although it can be nice ;). My laptop has everything I need, and when it doesn't (rare) I just plug it in (like a DVD burner). It's got a nice little monitor, keyboard, etc. Frankly the small space my laptop takes up compared to my desktop setup (which is large even at just a monitor, keyboard, mouse, and tower) is significant. One of the reasons for large cases in the past was expandability. You couldn't attach 5 more drives to a normal PC without putting them inside (ignore SCSI, it was never on normal people's desktops (with the exception of Macs)). If you needed a modem/soundcard/etc you had to put it in the computer (let's ignore external modems). But these days almost EVERYTHING can be had externally. Thanks to USB2 and FireWire, all the storage you'll ever need is can be external to your PC. Thanks to these things you can also attach mice, keyboards, soundcards, webcams, modems, tv-tuners, network interfaces, and more all without having to go inside a computer.
As computers are becomming more and more powerful, far past what most users need, I think users will start to realize this and go for other things like size and convience. I think this is the large reason why laptops are becomming such a large section of the computer market (the other being that they no longer cost $3k for a decent model). They now do basically everything most people need. The other big development is that LCDs are now more reasonable so it's possible to have a computer take up very little desk space (where just 5 years ago, you'd need a big 'ol monitor for a PC of any size).
I really don't need a physically big computer and nearly no one else does (ignoring business, server, etc and only talking about individuals). I have looked quite seriously at the eMac and iMac and if I knew of an similar product from a PC company that I like and trust I would seriously consider it if I were to buy a new computer (and didn't require it to be a laptop). I have seriously considered building myself a Shuttle mini PC (which I have done for some friends). Those things are about ideal as computers go for me (still upgradeable, but small).
A laptop/notebook/or small all-in-one is the future for most users, although they probably don't know it. A big computer used to be kind of impressive. Now it's a small computer that's impressive and for most people there is next to no tradeoff in choosing the smaller one.
And let's not forget the idea of the "livingroom PC" which could soon be a reality. My biggest gripe with this concept, the quality of the monitor (the TV), is address by HDTV. A nice HDTV would make a fine monitor, and since a small computer can do everything I could ever need it to these days. There are rumors that this is what MS wants to do with the X-Box2 and what Sony wants to do with the PS3 and frankly I can see it in the not so distant future.
Does anyone have a REAL reason for needing a big tower/desktop these days (again, for a personal computer. Not a business computer, not if you do rendering in your home or webserving there, just a normal computer)?
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
Why have a garage door opener, a remote TV controller, and a handheld computer. The computer can do all the others can and more. Why not not add a phone, multimedia player, wireless Internet, camera, GPS,
A couple of years ago I installed Linux on an Ipaq. screen shots.
It had 2 PCMCIA slots, one held a 5G HD, the other a wireless network card. It also had a fold-able keyboard. I really wanted to turn it into a phone, but though there's an adapter, there's no Linux drivers. And the phone companies don't like to give you their specs.
I usually live on the command line so MGz and RAM are not important to me. The only problem I had was the screen size. If only it had a "roll-out" screen!
My only criticism is that many of these devices seem designed more for fashion than functionality.
1. They're "all in one" devices": jacks of all trades, and masters of none.
2, They're "stylish", whatever that means.
So, the question really becomes, "Are there times and places when and where a low powered, good looking computer is appropriate?". The answer, is a resounding, "YES!"
Look no further than the trials and tribulations of those trying to put together an HTPC (Home Theater Personal Computer): Oh the agony of the fan noise, the ugliness of the case, and so on. It doesn't take much to play music, and playing video from common digital sources only takes a bit more "oomph" (actually, very little more, if you have hardware-assisted MPEG2 decoding). Rendering web-pages is child's play, if you can decode MPEG2 video. What else is there that a computer-as-entertainment device needs to do? About the only thing you can't do with a "low power" computer is play the latest uber-game, for lack of video horsepower. Still, one can achive a wonderful level of entertainment convergence even without this capability.
I have a nice, mid-1980s Bang & Olufsen Beosystem 5500 stereo system: receiver, turntable, CD player, and cassette deck. It drives external Carver amps, Bohlender-Graebner Radio 5000 speakers, and a custom-built amplified subwoofer. It rocks, and looks fscking cool! Yes, it cost 2-3 times as much as a system that sounds as good, but a system that sounds noticibly better would cost 10 times as much -- at some point you stop paying for performance and start paying for style, particularly if you want a nice family room. It complements a Sony HD-ready television, HD satellite receiver, and DVD player. Hmm, the "style" starts to suffer from all the stuff interconnected. But, it get's worse.
See, the B&0 CD player and the DVD player take single disks. Oh sure, I could get a CD/DVD jukebox, but they're, well, ugly (I payed for good looks, remember?). Besides, such things didn't exist in 1987, not even for CDs, when I got the stereo. So, I have a custom-built solid oak-and-granite-and-fancy-suspension-system cabinet to "show off" the B&O equipment and house up to 240 CDs, 90 cassettes, and have a shelf for "misc.", er, DVDs, yeah, I anticipated those cases, that's it. It looks great! Ain't I smart (if obnoxious, at this point?).
Well, perhaps, but not really. Like I said, interconnecting all that equipment detracts from the elegance -- it should "look simple". B&O gets this part right. The cabinet is utterly useless for CD number 241 or cassette number 91 (dunno how many DVD cases it can hold). Now, what would be really slick would be nothing other than a single box, connected to TV or alternate display, and external audio amps and speakers, or multichannel receiver.
Gee, sounds like a lifestyle computer, no?
Granted, the "lifestyle" systems currently available, while stylish, aren't really designed for this kind of use. But, the A/V convergence is encouraging. We're starting to see smarter and smarter set top boxes and networked DVD players. Between OTA and satellite television, there aren't that many different standards that need be accomodated (legacy analog, ATSC, and DVB). A one-size-fits-all tuner box, capable of retrieving digital content over the air, via satellite, or LAN (with WAN gateway to the Internet), isn't that much of a stretch any more. Include a DVD/CD drive, and you're done. Heck, there are digital video processors like ATI's Xilleon varients that already do all manner of ATSC, MPEG, with analog output encoding for NTSC, PAL, and SECAM, with a 300 Mhz MIPS processor to boot.
We're not there yet: current offerings are either ugly or awkward to use, or both. Still, that such first generation convergence devices exist at all, together with stylish lifestyle computers suggests that an eventual optimal merger between the two ideas might happen hopefully sooner than later.
Anyone wanna buy a nice hardwood and granite stereo cabinet?
You could've hired me.
I lived in Japan for 2 months over the summer, and my host sister-in-law had one of these all-in-one computers (I think it could also double as a TV). I personally wouldn't buy one, but it worked well for their purposes. They had 3 young children and just did things like email. It wasn't like they couldn't fit a desktop (though their house was really small) but Japanese people naturally tend to conserve space. My host father had a desktop and a laptop. Desktop for work stuff, laptop for checking email and so my host-mom could use it as well. So it really goes both ways. Very similar to here in the US. The enthusiast segment is strong in Japan as well. If you go to DenDen Town in Osaka or Akihabara in Tokyo, you can find high performance products from name brands for about the same price it costs us to buy off the internet.
it looks somewhat like a high heel shoe from the side. My wife would buy it, based on that alone!
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
Why are these better than a notebook? This thing appears to be put together out of notebook parts, but doesn't fold up, so it doesn't appear very portable. Can't I get notebook with better features for the same price?
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
The iMac did very well in the marketplace, for precisely that reason; 95% of computer buyers DON'T WANT to mess with their computer -- ever! For some people, plugging in the monitor to the CPU is too complicated. Asking slashdotters what computer hardware will be popular is like asking a NASCAR driver what kind of car they like to drive - their answers are in no way related to those of the general population.
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
These are such a pain. They look really pretty alright until something goes wrong. Taking apart a CRT iMac is like brain surgery, I can't imagine that any of the other models are any better. Not to mention you can't upgrade the monitor, or take it with you to your next computer.
[And maybe in the US too?] is that the Health and Safety regulations are such that the monitor must be positionable. There's obviously some get-out clause for notebooks, but that regulation was the death of the classic all-in-one box Mac, for instance.
I'd rather pay the extra and get a computer with a built-in UPS :) These machines have most of the compromises of a laptop without the portability...
But we already have our "lifestyle" computers in my house:
iBooks
my wife is a Realtor and when she's at home, she walks around the house with a headset phone on and her iBook goes wherever she does.
Every room she "hangs out" in has an iBook AC adapter in case she wants to plug in and of course the house has wireless internet.
Today I came home to find her in the kitchen, talking on the phone and the iBook was on the kitchen counter. Was she cooking?
Yes.
Was she using the iBook for a recipe?
No.
She was on Mapquest looking up directions for someone and explaining how to drive there while she made the pasta.
But- if I installed a computer in the kitchen would she use it?
NO.
She will also plop down in front of the TV and watch her Garden Shows with the iBook in her lap and also do Yahoo Crossword puzzles or browse the MLS listings at the same time.
She likes to move around and use: Phone, Computer, TV all at the same time and all in whatever room she wants to be in.
This is her current "lifestyle" and the tech is configured to suit it. I don't think she would go for an "all in one" device that locks her into one place.
However- if your "lifestyle" is one that involves as little moving around as possible, I can see these things being popular.
I like microcars
They are the "Halo" products. Nobody buys them, but they project an image and make a statement that the company can't manage to do with their regular products. But they sure look great in company catalogs, on store display stands and product placements in TV shows and movies.
That is my guess as to why sleek but totally impractical designs such as these - that create as many problems as they solve - actually made it into production.
Here's one, for example.
Get ready. Its coming!
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
I'm sure this will get modded -1 and never be seen, but frankly, Slashdot is not the place to be asking about what devices are going to hit it big with consumers. You're asking a bunch of computer geeks about what will be attractive to the average joe, who might barely know how to turn on his computer.
Yes, these devices are the direction things are going. My mother doesn't know how to hook a VCR to a TV. To her, a computer that would get rid of her wire-clutter would be both more aesthetically pleasing and less scary. What people who read this site often fail to understand is that the gross majority of computer users want to think about their computer like they think about there TV. It's there, it's cool, it does things I want. They don't want to know about who made their video card any more than I worry about who makes the plastic molding for my VCR.
So complain, if you wish about upgradibility, but most people have no interest in upgrading. If their computer is insufficient, they'll buy a new one. Complain about being underpowered, but if you're not playing games- if you're only using a word processor, e-mail, and web brower- any computer you buy today will be over-powered. Complain about it being hard to open up and repair, but my mother would never consider doing such a thing.
Face it- though geeks, engineers, and game players may drive the high end market to constantly become higher-end, the gross majority of computer purchases are made by people who know jack about computers and don't really care to know more.
And that's why I'm saying these machines, as they become more refined, will take over major portions of the market. You'll see computers that seem more like single-unit DVRs, game consoles, stereos, and glorified internet appliances, at least until some innovative being invents a new form for computers to take.
I'm living in a friends house in an extra couple of bedrooms. I haven't room for even all my clothes, but I would never compromise on the computers. My current workstation is an (old) dual pIII with a pair of 19" monitors. Until I had to give one to my son, there were three monitors on it (gotta love Matrox!). So, no I wouldn't ever buy one of these silly 'lifestyle' pcs. Seems like its more a decorative appliance for front office secretaries or sitting (probably unused) on some dumbass executives desk. I could build two or three useful machines for what one of these goofy sony boxes cost!
This sig kills fascists.
I don't reccomend gateway ever, seems like every person who's bought one has sent it in for warranty service at least once...
But, these are REALLY reasonable $$wise when you buy refurbs.
current model includes P4 3.0 256 meg ram, 17 inch lcd dvd & less than a grand..
what does a 17 inch lcd cost? eh-- they worked for that location, one died after two years, and was replaced with the same thing, one still works after three years..
this in a industrial type busy location
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random