Posted by
michael
on from the welding-torches-work-both-ways dept.
An Ominous Cow Erred writes "A common argument used by open source advocates (myself included) in favor of open source is the simple question: 'Would you buy a car with the hood welded shut?' According to an article from the BBC, Volvo thinks the way of the future may be exactly that."
One thing to note for people who don't actually read the article, this is a car that is not only just a concept, but is a concept aimed at the type of women who would never open the hood anyway.
Not only is it designed for the type of women who would never open the hood, it is designed by the type of women who would never open the hood. Key excerpts from the article include:
The 'Your Concept Car' (YCC), on display for the first time at the Geneva Motor Show, was designed by a team of women keen to change the way most cars are designed with male drivers in mind.
"Honestly, the only time I open the bonnet on my car is when I want to fill up washer fluid," said Tatiana Butovitsch Temm. "Do we need to have a one metre square hatch for that or could we do it in another way?
and
Volvo will never actually take this car into production, of course.
But many of the ideas hatched by the female think-tank may still appear in more conventional Volvos, as well as in other cars within the group.
So, no, Volvo does not think that the car's hood should be welded shut. Just someone who wants their seats to match their outfit for the day. Maybe all the women I know are just way too practical, but I don't know a single one who would go through all the hassle to do that.
The Audi A2 is halfway towards this concept. It doesn't have a bonnet (hood) as such, just a small flap to check oil and water levels.
Don.
-- Slashdot - The Home of the Tortured Analogy
Re:Audi A2
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 1, Informative
Not exactly the same if you ask me. It takes all but a minute to remove the bonnet of an Audi A2. Simply flip open the grill and then loosen the two thumb screws that hold the bonnet in place. Done.
There's already lots of suitable bracing under the hood because of the sheer number of components that have to be supported there.
One problem with a sealed hood/bonnet is that it'd probably wreak havoc on frontal crumple zones. Hoods of modern cars are designed to crumple in a specific sequence to absorb energy.
-- Y'know, you blow up one sun and suddenly everyone expects you to walk on water.
You know, there is a real advantage to a sealed hood/bonnet: stiffness. I would bet that the modern hood is a real PITA to car structural designers who look at that big unstressed hood and weep.
Actually, unlike airplanes, cars aren't built to rely on a "stressed skin" for structural support. Cars nowadays are built on a "unibody" design and all the cosmetic parts-- fenders, doors, hood, trunk lid-- are hung on the outside. The supporting structure needs to be near where the weight sits-- at the wheels. Really the only places the structure is exposed is the parts holding up the roof and framing the doors, and then only out of obvious necessity.
-- If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
Re:just my opinion
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 1, Informative
No, "hood" is American English for "bonnet". There's no such thing as "British English".
Re:This bears watching
by
EvilTwinSkippy
·
· Score: 4, Informative
IBM tried this with their mainframes and lost. Case law already states this type of activity is illegal on anti-trust grounds. I'm pretty sure the big-three automakers tried similar tactics, and were also laughed out of court.
Besides, you aren't copying the car. The DMCA doesn't apply.
-- "Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
Re:It's a car for women!
by
blahlemon
·
· Score: 1, Informative
Tell me you're kidding right? The water you say you put in doesn't provide the same hydrolic pressure as proper brake fluid. If you got into an accident and it was determined that faulty brakes on your car caused it you would be litigated into the stone age. Especially if someone was killed by it.
Someone please tell me I'm feeding a troll here.
-- It take more faith to believe in evolution than it takes to believe in God
Volvo cars are not made by Volvo Corporation!
by
a-aiyar
·
· Score: 3, Informative
The link to Volvo is wrong. Volvo has nothing to do with Volvo cars. Volvo Corporation makes trucks, marine engines, aircraft engines, and used to make cars. The automobile division was sold to Ford about 7 years ago. The correct link is VolvoCars. Long-time Volvo enthusiasts, such as myself (who loved our 140s, 240, and 740s) are somewhat skeptical of the quality of the newer Volvo cars made under Ford management. For instance the latest S40 (due out this spring) shares a common platform with the Ford Focus and the Mazda 3, but costs about twice as much because of the Volvo branding.
No seriously, it *is* a car for women - RTA
by
blorg
·
· Score: 5, Informative
Volvo's new concept car, launched at the Geneva motor show, is a car designed by women for women. [...] [The car] was designed by a team of women keen to change the way most cars are designed with male drivers in mind. [...] And for women with ponytails, there is even a split in the middle of the headrest. "It is very uncomfortable to drive with a ponytail," said Ms Christiansen.
Re:No seriously, it *is* a car for women - RTA
by
tprox
·
· Score: 2, Informative
Depends where you tie your ponytail. If you tie it right on the back of your head near the top so that the hair sticks out and back you're going to have problems with your car seat head. Most guys I know tie their long hair so that it goes down their back. Women do either depending on the look (I would assume).
Re:It's a car for women!
by
ThogScully
·
· Score: 4, Informative
I call BS. Water in your brake lines would boil the first time you tapped the brakes. Brake fluid doesn't boil for hundreds of degrees where as water would boil just coming near your brakes. Once it boils, you've got no brake pressure and you better hope your parking brake has some tension. -N
-- I've nothing to say here...
Re:It's a car for women!
by
dayve
·
· Score: 3, Informative
Actually, some VW Beetles (the old ones, not the new ones) had the gas filler under the "hood".
Re:Not a new idea
by
DocSnyder
·
· Score: 4, Informative
The Audi A2, which actually is _in production_ (and has been for a couple of years) has a "locked" hood/bonnet too.
The A2's hood is not really locked shut, it's only held differently compared to other cars. After unlocking two quick-out knobs, you can lift the hood (about 9 kg) off and access everything without the hood being in the way.
Re:remote diagnostics
by
enrico_suave
·
· Score: 4, Informative
I'm not sure I'd trust remote diagonstics...
Car manufacturers do insidious things with their ability to "code" stuff into the onboard computer.
For example nissan purposely ratcheted down the HP of one of their cars in software/firmware and then of course sells an "add on kit" where you get that hp "back" for $$$.
Say nothing of the idiot light's that go on ("ooooh check engine, I'm scared.. I better pull over and get towed to a dealership right away!") at specified intervals/mileage to have people bring in their cars for a manufacturers recommended fleecing.
(note sometimes check engine does indicate a "real" problem... or an emissions issue... YMMV... and if your oil light comes on, for the love of god don't continue driving it for an hour till the engine siezes... pull over and call your husband and/or put some damn oil in!!!! Wait, was that my "outside voice/text"?)
-- One CPU cycle wasted on digital restrictions management is ONE TOO MANY.
Rolls-Royce
by
GuyFawkes
·
· Score: 2, Informative
When they started out the bonnet (hood) WAS locked shut, and only a Rolls Royce engineer (not mechanic) could open it.
As to all the predictable comments about "what if the big end blows etc" people had the same concerns way back then, and the response from Rolls? "Rolls Royce motor cars do not break down"
and there was of course a lot of truth in that comment, they were fiednishly expensive but they were genuinely far more robust than the average car of the day, so/.ers may need to consider the marketing aspect here, Vulva are probably merely on a PRbunny trip about quality and exclusivity rather than making any machanical MTBF type statements.
Of course Rolls Royce is no longer english, it was sold to the germans, and quite apart from the new rollers not being rollers any more and being quite hideous, along with the change of ownership all the old paperwork and marketing guff will have moved office... now who really owns vulva nowadays?
-- http://slashdot.org/~GuyFawkes/journal
Re:It's a car for women!
by
cdrudge
·
· Score: 5, Informative
Huh? Brake fluid isn't compressable either. You don't want compressable things when maximum pressure is required.
Water could be used as a brake fluid if it wasn't for two things: corrosion and boiling point. The components of the brake system would quickly rust or otherwise corrode with water in the system. Also brakes get very hot and the water would boil off.
Re:It's a car for women!
by
Tmack
·
· Score: 5, Informative
No, water, same as most any liquid, is not compressable. What it DOES do that brake fluid does not, is boil at a relatively low temp. The friction from the pads against the disc/drum heats up all your brake components, disc/drum/pads/calipers/fluid/etc. Once heated, the water would boil, creating steam pockets in your brakeline, and steam (a gas) is VERY compressable.
Just realize the parent is flamebait and move along, nothing to see here.
Tm
--
Support TBI Research: http://www.raisinhope.org
For people that didn't read the article
by
hng_rval
·
· Score: 2, Informative
Quote: Volvo will never actually take this car into production, of course. But many of the ideas hatched by the female think-tank may still appear in more conventional Volvos, as well as in other cars within the group.
-- Thank you Mario! But our princess is in another castle!
Re:HONDAS dont break
by
Beowulf_Boy
·
· Score: 2, Informative
Alero is GM, Mustang is ford....you must be thinking of a Mercury.
And they already make custom hoods, and even clear ones. Welcome to the world of Carbon Fiber hoods.
No they're not
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 1, Informative
I have an A4 and this isn't true. There's a plastic cover over the battery, but it's held in place with 2 plastic latches that require no tools to open. The plastic cover is in place to accentuiate the clean look inside the engine compartment.
Re:Porsche Boxster anyone?
by
lucifuge31337
·
· Score: 3, Informative
Boxters aren't exactly expensive in comparision to real Porsches (real meaning 911s). Furthermore, 911's are exactly a treat to work on. They have most of the same issues with accessing anything.
Fortunately, they both have 2 things going for them:
1.) The engine placement is not to screw the owner. It is there because it makes the weight of the vehicle properly balanced for suspension perfoemnce.
2.) It's not actually all THAT had to drop the motors in these things. While I've never dropped the motor in the Boxter, I've done sone on 911's and VW Beetles (the old body style) more times than I can count (remember, the beetle is designed after the 911, and is very similar in construction), I'm told they are much the same. Your' looking at a couple of harnesses, and about 6 bolts. If you have a proper transmission style jack, it's not really a big deal. Anyone without these facilities (or the desire to get them) probably doesn't need to be monkeying around with their engine to begin with.
And most importantly, this really has little to do with the article. The Volvo concept car mentioned in it is really a totally different animal with different design goals in mind.
-- Do not fold, spindle or mutilate.
Re:Not a new idea
by
apophenia
·
· Score: 1, Informative
AutoZone has multiple car computer diagnostic kits available.
Buy one and support their fight against SCO while maintaining your newer car.
Re:It's a car for women!
by
WinterSolstice
·
· Score: 5, Informative
Well, Porsche used to have the oil fill port as well as the fuel fill port accessible from the exterior.
This was *very* short lived (I think it was 71 or 72) because people are amazingly capable of screwing things up.
-WS
-- An operating system should be like a light switch... simple, effective, easy to use, and designed for everyone.
Re:It's a car for women!
by
Skynyrd
·
· Score: 2, Informative
Actually, some VW Beetles (the old ones, not the new ones) had the gas filler under the "hood".
That's becasue the tank was under the "hood", under the spare tire.
With the old VWs being rear engine, there wasn't any room for it in the back.
When the filler was moved to the outside, it was only a longer filler neck - not a moved tank.
Tackett
Re:It's a car for women!
by
zakezuke
·
· Score: 3, Informative
What the hell are you, some kind of Canadian? Petrol? Petrol Entry Point? BONNET!?
I find it odd that anyone would find the use of these terms humorous. I buy Haynes manuals, and in fact learned the terms from their manual. While I don't typicaly use bonnet or boot, I would not even question the use of these terms. Esp petrol which makes the most sence, as it's short for petroleum.
Gas makes the least sence as gas it self is like air, whther it be methane, propane, hydrogen, or what you get after eating AM/PM food. Not that it's not a good term to use for auto fuel, just it's far too generic. "Can we drive to the *metro area* and go dancing tonight" "I have gas honey".
-- There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary.
SHUT UP!
There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
Re:It's a car for women!
by
soft_guy
·
· Score: 3, Informative
Apparantly, Homer objects to the fancy terms used, including the term "garage"
Apparently you are wrong. (We forgive you - in fact we pity you for not having seen the episode.) Home uses the term "Garage" and Moe objects to his "fancy use of language" (as do Lenny and Carl). Homer asks "So what do you call it?"
Moe: A car hole!
--
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
Re:It's a car for women!
by
virtualXTC
·
· Score: 2, Informative
Insightful? I was looking for a mod -1 Lie!
If you paid attention in either of your HS Chemistry or Physics classes, you'd know that liquids (and even solids) are indeed compressible. The difference is each is successively orders of magnitude harder to compress.
Re:It's a car for women!
by
Marvelicious
·
· Score: 2, Informative
This whole conversation is making me want to break out my baby seal club! OK
Water is compressable - just not very
Steam is very compressable - this is how power generation in a boiler works. I should know, I build the damned things!
Water is not a sub. for brake fluid - It boils, freezes and generally is a problem. I'm actually amazed we still use it mixed with antifreeze for coolant.
Cars should have hoods that open - I really hate this "user-friendly" car concept they have going right now. I don't my car to call anyone for me. No mechanics, no policemen, not even a hooker. I have a phone, I'll use it when I need to. As for a hood that doesn't open... Says who? I'll get the M*****F***er open.
Slashdot Mirror
One thing to note for people who don't actually read the article, this is a car that is not only just a concept, but is a concept aimed at the type of women who would never open the hood anyway.
The headline should have been much, much clearer.
The Audi A2 is halfway towards this concept. It doesn't have a bonnet (hood) as such, just a small flap to check oil and water levels.
Don.
Slashdot - The Home of the Tortured Analogy
No, "hood" is American English for "bonnet". There's no such thing as "British English".
Besides, you aren't copying the car. The DMCA doesn't apply.
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
Someone please tell me I'm feeding a troll here.
It take more faith to believe in evolution than it takes to believe in God
The link to Volvo is wrong. Volvo has nothing to do with Volvo cars. Volvo Corporation makes trucks, marine engines, aircraft engines, and used to make cars. The automobile division was sold to Ford about 7 years ago. The correct link is VolvoCars. Long-time Volvo enthusiasts, such as myself (who loved our 140s, 240, and 740s) are somewhat skeptical of the quality of the newer Volvo cars made under Ford management. For instance the latest S40 (due out this spring) shares a common platform with the Ford Focus and the Mazda 3, but costs about twice as much because of the Volvo branding.
Volvo's new concept car, launched at the Geneva motor show, is a car designed by women for women. [...] [The car] was designed by a team of women keen to change the way most cars are designed with male drivers in mind. [...] And for women with ponytails, there is even a split in the middle of the headrest. "It is very uncomfortable to drive with a ponytail," said Ms Christiansen.
I call BS. Water in your brake lines would boil the first time you tapped the brakes. Brake fluid doesn't boil for hundreds of degrees where as water would boil just coming near your brakes. Once it boils, you've got no brake pressure and you better hope your parking brake has some tension.
-N
I've nothing to say here...
Actually, some VW Beetles (the old ones, not the new ones) had the gas filler under the "hood".
The A2's hood is not really locked shut, it's only held differently compared to other cars. After unlocking two quick-out knobs, you can lift the hood (about 9 kg) off and access everything without the hood being in the way.
I'm not sure I'd trust remote diagonstics...
Car manufacturers do insidious things with their ability to "code" stuff into the onboard computer.
For example nissan purposely ratcheted down the HP of one of their cars in software/firmware and then of course sells an "add on kit" where you get that hp "back" for $$$.
Say nothing of the idiot light's that go on ("ooooh check engine, I'm scared.. I better pull over and get towed to a dealership right away!") at specified intervals/mileage to have people bring in their cars for a manufacturers recommended fleecing.
(note sometimes check engine does indicate a "real" problem... or an emissions issue... YMMV... and if your oil light comes on, for the love of god don't continue driving it for an hour till the engine siezes... pull over and call your husband and/or put some damn oil in!!!! Wait, was that my "outside voice/text"?)
e.
Build Your Own PVR/HTPC news, reviews, &
Not in the United States. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act prohibits voiding a warranty on those grounds.
One CPU cycle wasted on digital restrictions management is ONE TOO MANY.
When they started out the bonnet (hood) WAS locked shut, and only a Rolls Royce engineer (not mechanic) could open it.
/.ers may need to consider the marketing aspect here, Vulva are probably merely on a PRbunny trip about quality and exclusivity rather than making any machanical MTBF type statements.
As to all the predictable comments about "what if the big end blows etc" people had the same concerns way back then, and the response from Rolls?
"Rolls Royce motor cars do not break down"
and there was of course a lot of truth in that comment, they were fiednishly expensive but they were genuinely far more robust than the average car of the day, so
Of course Rolls Royce is no longer english, it was sold to the germans, and quite apart from the new rollers not being rollers any more and being quite hideous, along with the change of ownership all the old paperwork and marketing guff will have moved office... now who really owns vulva nowadays?
http://slashdot.org/~GuyFawkes/journal
Huh? Brake fluid isn't compressable either. You don't want compressable things when maximum pressure is required.
Water could be used as a brake fluid if it wasn't for two things: corrosion and boiling point. The components of the brake system would quickly rust or otherwise corrode with water in the system. Also brakes get very hot and the water would boil off.
Just realize the parent is flamebait and move along, nothing to see here.
Tm
Support TBI Research: http://www.raisinhope.org
Quote:
Volvo will never actually take this car into production, of course.
But many of the ideas hatched by the female think-tank may still appear in more conventional Volvos, as well as in other cars within the group.
Thank you Mario! But our princess is in another castle!
Alero is GM, Mustang is ford....you must be thinking of a Mercury.
And they already make custom hoods, and even clear ones. Welcome to the world of Carbon Fiber hoods.
I have an A4 and this isn't true. There's a plastic cover over the battery, but it's held in place with 2 plastic latches that require no tools to open. The plastic cover is in place to accentuiate the clean look inside the engine compartment.
Boxters aren't exactly expensive in comparision to real Porsches (real meaning 911s). Furthermore, 911's are exactly a treat to work on. They have most of the same issues with accessing anything.
Fortunately, they both have 2 things going for them:
1.) The engine placement is not to screw the owner. It is there because it makes the weight of the vehicle properly balanced for suspension perfoemnce.
2.) It's not actually all THAT had to drop the motors in these things. While I've never dropped the motor in the Boxter, I've done sone on 911's and VW Beetles (the old body style) more times than I can count (remember, the beetle is designed after the 911, and is very similar in construction), I'm told they are much the same. Your' looking at a couple of harnesses, and about 6 bolts. If you have a proper transmission style jack, it's not really a big deal. Anyone without these facilities (or the desire to get them) probably doesn't need to be monkeying around with their engine to begin with.
And most importantly, this really has little to do with the article. The Volvo concept car mentioned in it is really a totally different animal with different design goals in mind.
Do not fold, spindle or mutilate.
Buy one and support their fight against SCO while maintaining your newer car.
Well, Porsche used to have the oil fill port as well as the fuel fill port accessible from the exterior.
This was *very* short lived (I think it was 71 or 72) because people are amazingly capable of screwing things up.
-WS
An operating system should be like a light switch... simple, effective, easy to use, and designed for everyone.
That's becasue the tank was under the "hood", under the spare tire.
With the old VWs being rear engine, there wasn't any room for it in the back.
When the filler was moved to the outside, it was only a longer filler neck - not a moved tank.
Tackett
What the hell are you, some kind of Canadian? Petrol? Petrol Entry Point? BONNET!?
I find it odd that anyone would find the use of these terms humorous. I buy Haynes manuals, and in fact learned the terms from their manual. While I don't typicaly use bonnet or boot, I would not even question the use of these terms. Esp petrol which makes the most sence, as it's short for petroleum.
Gas makes the least sence as gas it self is like air, whther it be methane, propane, hydrogen, or what you get after eating AM/PM food. Not that it's not a good term to use for auto fuel, just it's far too generic. "Can we drive to the *metro area* and go dancing tonight" "I have gas honey".
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
Apparantly, Homer objects to the fancy terms used, including the term "garage"
Apparently you are wrong. (We forgive you - in fact we pity you for not having seen the episode.) Home uses the term "Garage" and Moe objects to his "fancy use of language" (as do Lenny and Carl). Homer asks "So what do you call it?"
Moe: A car hole!
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
If you paid attention in either of your HS Chemistry or Physics classes, you'd know that liquids (and even solids) are indeed compressible. The difference is each is successively orders of magnitude harder to compress.
The correct thing to say would have been that liquids are "near incompressible" and for the purposes of breaking, it is as earlier posters said the boiling point of the break fluid that is important.
This whole conversation is making me want to break out my baby seal club!
OK
Water is compressable - just not very
Steam is very compressable - this is how power generation in a boiler works. I should know, I build the damned things!
Water is not a sub. for brake fluid - It boils, freezes and generally is a problem. I'm actually amazed we still use it mixed with antifreeze for coolant.
Cars should have hoods that open - I really hate this "user-friendly" car concept they have going right now. I don't my car to call anyone for me. No mechanics, no policemen, not even a hooker. I have a phone, I'll use it when I need to. As for a hood that doesn't open... Says who? I'll get the M*****F***er open.
Send whiskey and fresh horses!