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Tara Reid And The Future Of Game Development

Thanks to GameSpy for its article covering Naughty Dog's president Jason Rubin discussing why gaming needs to do more for its talent. Rubin explained the strange title of his lecture by referencing to Sony's E3 2003 party: "After several calls, lots of hassle, waiting in a long line, and a trip through the metal detector, Rubin was able to get in. Meanwhile, Hollywood darling Tara Reid simply strolled into the party. This got Rubin thinking about how much money and attention publishers garnish celebrities with. By contrast, the business does a really poor job of promoting its own talent." He went on to note: "Very rarely do you see a developer's name on the box, and sometimes you don't even see the developer's logo", and urged a change of attitude: "Developers should look at publishers as people they hire to sell the game they made."

18 of 85 comments (clear)

  1. I completely agree.. by Recoil_42 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I even know a few people who believe that the publisher is the one who makes the games. One of them continued to argue with me in the case of True Crime: Streets of LA, telling me that Activision makes all his favorite games, and that there was no way that i was telling him they didn't make them at all. (except for marketing, packaging, etc.) It's really sad that the publisher gets all the glory, because that puts them in a position of advantage on the developers, giving the publisher all the money for doing less work. This is really evident when looking at EA --- its "EA games' Battlefield 1942", not "DICE's Battlefield 1942" what the leads to, is the developers completely getting swindled, as the record companies do now, but in a different way -- you won't get sales unless you go with one of the big labels (in the case of games, publishers), and if you DO go with them, they'll swindle you for all you're worth. I'd really like to hear some real developer's opinions on this though, as IANAGD. (I am not a game developer) C'mon guys, i know you're out there.

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    Newsie, Moderator, www.tauniverse.com
    1. Re:I completely agree.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      It's kind of funny... the smaller nightclub and DJ scene is like this a lot too. Promoters take all the credit and make all the money. They rake in $15-$40 every 30 seconds as hundreds to thousands of kids file into their party. They stand outside greeting people for a bit... walk around, schmooze in the VIP area... But really... everyone is there for the music (and some for drugs but that's another story).

      People come to see the musical groups and/or DJs... but unless you're a big name headliner dj/producer you usually get crap.

      I was a bouncer that did was able to command my pay based on how I did the job.. I got $20/hr plus bonuses. I'd see some of my favorite local DJs walk out with $10-$20 for their 1hr set. That's barely enough money to buy more records, let alone pay any bills.

      It might break down to a lot hourly but how many people came to see you and who'd show up if there weren't any DJs at all.

      Anyway, I think my rant makes a decent analogy?

  2. Developers not regarded as marketable by raiderx · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is really a problem with American and European publishers (Peter Molyneux promoting himself and Lionhead Studios notwithstanding). In Japan, the developers are well known and given credit for their work. Voice actors, who often do no other voice acting other than video game related gigs, are treated like rock stars by video game fans.

    The attitude seems to be that the folks that market the game seem to think THEY are the stars. Developers are regarded as slave labor to be exploited and dismissed.

    1. Re:Developers not regarded as marketable by cybermace5 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Developers aren't marketable.

      And the attitude that the publishers are working for the developers...well, if any developers start taking that attitude, they need to be prepared to tighten the belt.

      Publishers are the ones that bring in money. There are thousands of fantastic games out there, you can find hundreds of websites where small groups are publishing their own games. They are virtually unheard of except for an in-crowd cult that can probably trace word-of-mouth back all the way to the developers showing their friends this new game they made. This model used to work OK back in the heyday of shareware, but now with the amount of advertising you pretty much need a publisher to make any money.

      And while many gamers would probably appreciate the quality of some of these independently-published games, remember that the multiplayer experience is now an important part of many games. If a gamer want to have a good time on online, there need to be lots of other players out there...and publishers do a good job of bringing those in too, beacuse of the sheer mass of promotion.

      Maybe the relationship of publishers and developers needs to change somewhat, but they are symbiotic. The publisher has most of the power though; because there are many developers out there who would like to get a major contract, and not as many publishers out there who want to take on the cast-offs of another publisher.

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    2. Re:Developers not regarded as marketable by xenocide2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Developers aren't marketable? What about iD, Blizzard or Valve? And of course, the grandparent poster indirectly recognized the selling power of the Square brand. The relationship between developer and publisher should be one of equivelent trade: they should be working for you just as much as you work for them.

      I keep hearing that multiplayer is big, but everyone translates that into internet play. In reality, one is a subset of the other--remember this dearly. If you're absolutely worried about bringing in incredible numbers of players for "multiplayer," this isn't something guarenteed by a publisher. I recall purchasing an older game called NetStorm published by Activision. The easiest way to bring in players is price point.

      The biggest problem facing developers is a lack of a business plan. Sure, there's a couple of projects they're working on and getting paid for, but typically they're either one shot contracts with movie studios (increasingly rare) or somebody's pet project. Now tie-ins are good for making ends meet, and if approached correctly may be a boon for recognition (at least temporarily), and pet projects are why the whole studio was started in the first place! But developers need to examine their revenue streams, and work on stability. Industry analysts always tell you the market is hit drive, and executives will complain about it, but the biggest and hardiest have found ways outside of this. They build franchises and milk them in nearly the same way Microsoft does it's Operating System and Office. EA has turn sports into a steady revenue source, as well as the sims. Square has slowly built Final Fantasy into a series that releases almost yearly. Unreal Tournament has shifted into a yearly purchase, and I expect it will do well.

      The other option to reduce risk is to focus on smaller games at a cheaper price point, and maybe examine different ways to distribute them. I've probably rambled on too long already, but popcap springs to mind as a small games studio that does well.

      --
      I Browse at +4 Flamebait

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  3. Get a grip, dude! by fm6 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Tara Reid is just the Pretty Face du jour. She's the one Hollywood is hyping today. Tomorrow it will be somebody else.

    The way Hollywood treats the talent sucks. But's that's as true for Tara Reid as for Jason Rubin. As Ms. Reid will find out the very moment people get bored with her.

    So Jason, if you want to be treated like a real human being, switch to an industry that grasps the concept.

  4. History repeating? GoD all over again? by Drakino · · Score: 4, Insightful

    From his article "To make the changes, Rubin urged developers to reverse their thinking. He feels that talent needs to force the change. Developers should look at publishers as people they hire to sell the game they made. The talent should view the publisher as a tool for marketing, public relations, and sales. They are the ones making the games and they are the ones that should be wielding more power."

    I remember a publishing company called Gathering of Developers that started up using these ideals. Ideals like the developers deserve credit for their work, and other similar concepts. Great idea, but they were never taken seriously. And after seeing somewhat of how they ran and showed themselves, it's not a wonder. If someone attempts to do this again, they need to be a tad more mature, at least until they have a few top selling titles under their belt.

    I do wish developers got the recognition they deserve. But by no means do they deserve the world, and some of them I think expect this.

  5. I Buy Miyamoto Games by MBCook · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Makes sense to me. I bought Pikmin for the Game Cube (now one of my all time favorite games) becasue it was Miyamoto's baby. Don't get me wrong, if someone else had made the EXACT same game I would have looked at it. But I probably would have rented it and then beaten it, or maybe (very maybe) rented then bought. But I TRUST Miyamoto and BOUGHT the game without ever seeing more than a small description and screenshots. I have been burned FAR too many times by bad games to buy them anymore. I very rarely buy games, almost never without playing them. It's those few title that I KNOW I can trust that I'll buy. This is but one example.

    It works the other way too. I had a TERRIBLE expiriance with Sid Meier's Sim Golf, and I doubt I will ever buy one of his games again. If I do it will be a very VERY hard sell. This would be nice too because companies that continue to produce slop would be frowned upon and more people would avlid their crud. As it is now you have everything from fantastic games to the worst things you've ever played all under one name (like EA).

    It makes sense too. This really is a talent business like the movies and not just a "name" business like bras or something. And when was the last time ANYONE went to see a movie because it was being distributed by Warner or Sony? People could care less who distributes the movie, it's who directed/stars/wrote/produced it.

    --
    Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
  6. Rubin the Wrong Way by illuminata · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Developers should look at publishers as people they hire to sell the game they made.

    If only they were in a position to do so. Most first time or independent developers have a very hard time getting the cash needed to finish a title. Who provides the cash? That's right, the publishers. Not only do they help get that game finished, they also provide marketing and get a game on the store shelves. Because of that, publishers get to be picky about what games they want due to the large amount of developers trying to get their attention.

    Unless the world of game developers collectively decided to tell the publishers off on three, there's no way that the developer is going to become the one wearing the pants in the developer/publisher relationship. They have the power. Unless you can get your game onto a shelf and marketed without them, they always will be. But, you might just be able to become totally self-sufficient if you want to; as long as you don't believe that you'll be an industry player overnight.

    --


    Until Slashdot fixes the funny modifier, use insightful or interesting. The poster knows your intentions.
  7. Respect is earned, not blithely given. by GTarrant · · Score: 4, Insightful
    While Mr. Rubin has a point to some degree, there are developers that have made sufficient names of themselves to be given press on the box/etc. of the game.

    Look at any game by id Software. You'll see the "id" logo prominently on the box. There's no mistaking who made that game when you look at the box. Ditto anything by Blizzard. Squaresoft/Square-Enix. Valve. Bioware, to some extent. Sure, in all these cases the publisher will be listed too (there will certainly be an "Activision" somewhere on the box of a game by id) but the developer is given high billing.

    Why? Because the publishers ARE trying to do the marketing, distributing, etc. and they know that there are fans that will look at a game by Blizzard, or id, or what have you, and buy it for that reason.

    This is no different than in Hollywood. There are some directors/writers/etc. that are big enough names that people will go see their movies specifically because it's one of theirs. And, certainly, there are other directors/etc. that may make quality movies, but don't yet have that recognition. It doesn't mean they suck. In the game industry, there aren't necessarily INDIVIDUALS that are like this, but rather development groups.

    If a developer continues to create innovative and popular games, they will get the recognition they deserve. Naughty Dog has done some good games, this is true, but when you think of big developers, they aren't one that comes to mind. If they succeed over time, it will come.

  8. The old EA days by Ochobee · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think Jason Rubin is longing for the days past when EA tried to market their deveopers like artists. Remember the bios and pictures that were included in every EA game in days past? I think Mr. Rubin and his Naughty Dog partner were featured in at least one of those (Keef the Thief?) as well.

    The question of course is, in a dev team of 20+ people who gets the rock star status? Jason Rubin or that guy 3 cubes down who is the genious behind graphics engine?

    --
    Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws. -Plato
  9. Apples and Oranges? by bigbigbison · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It seems that he is talking about two different things. It seems that letting in a celebrity is a case where they are trying to make gaming look cool. "Look hollywood celebrity X thinks games are cool! That means that liking games makes you cool too!"

    The issue of not giving designers enough credit is something else. Even in Hollywood, for every Lucas there are a million other people who make competent work and go unknown. Let's face it, even one of the biggest directors is probably much less reccognizable than the biggest actor simply because the directors are not on camera. The same holds true of game designers. By the nature of their work they can't really get as much screen time as an actor, so they will be less well known.

    I don't think the case of EA taking the glory for a film is that unusual. How many films does someone like Mirimax or Lion's Gate just buy and put their name on it and get the credit for putting out quality films?

    Certainly designers do deserve more credit, but to compare designers level of celebrity to an actress is to compare apples and oranges.

    --
    http://www.popularculturegaming.com -- my blog about the culture of videogame players
  10. Not just in game publishing by aztektum · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That's business as usual in corporate America. CEO's and board chairman are always tooting their own horns with hardly any recognition given to the underlings who actually perform the work.

    --
    :: aztek ::
    No sig for you!!
  11. Publish games by yourself! by Stormwatch · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I guess this is not viable for consoles, but it's a nice way to work if you make computer games. So, if you can develop quality games on a low budget... what to do? Publish them as shareware! In time, with some luck and a lot of hard work, your company may become big enough to make more complex games and publish them boxed.

    Examples of this? iD, Ambrosia, Freeverse, Pangea, and Bungie.

  12. Visual Appeal by molafson · · Score: 2, Insightful

    A lot of the appeal of celebrities is SEX appeal. This includes film, TV, and music celebrities. Of course, athletes are somewhat different, in that the famous ones are predominantly men being watched by a male audience. However, the athlete's appeal, while not sexual is physical in any case (strength, agility, etc).

    In any case, both of these kinds of appeal manifest themselves visually.

    On the contrary, there are lots of skilled people in the entertainment industry who do the bulk of the work who are not lavished with attention -- screenwriters, for example, or cinematographers, sound engineers, and producers.

    These are people who benefit neither from name recognition nor the constant attention of the camera. (A few directors, like some game developers, do at least attain some celebrity occasionally owing to name recognition, i.e. "branding.")

  13. Developers are a dime a dozen by miyako · · Score: 3, Insightful

    In my experience, good developers DO get recognized, maybe not by the publisher, but gamers, magazines and websites will note the developer.
    The thing is, good developers are rare, and mediocre developers are a dime a dozen.
    In an industry that is dominated more and more by rehashed formulas, dead mules beating beaten for 4 or 5 more sequals, and games whose whole concept is "hey, what if we made a game with all these chicks in like bikinis and they could jump around and shit. Oh we could have them play Volleyball! dude wouldn't that be awsome" the job of the developer is being replaced more and more by code monkies and marketing.
    The point being, developers of many games that come out are nothing special, so why should they be treated like that, and from a publishers viewpoint, why excert the time and money to create a rockstar persona for a really awsome developer when they could just shit-can him and higher a few people to make Grand Theft Auto Elevendy Two or Dead or Alive: Naked Chicks on Trampolines.
    Good developers do it because they love making games, poor developers don't deserve recognition anyway.

    --
    Famous Last Words: "hmm...wikipedia says it's edible"
  14. Developer labels.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    A developer label or splash screen is about as meaningful as the production studio for a movie. Does anyone really associate American Zoetrope with quality despite the fact it's Francis Ford Coppolas's company? Well, that depends on if you think "Jeepers Creepers" has any relation to "The Godfather" or even "Lost in Translation" in quality.

    Fact of the matter is, developer (company) don't mean much.

    Now if you've got a hot shot game designer then sure he's got some attention. Peter Molynux, Shigeru Miyamoto, Will Wright, John Carmack. They ARE on the level of Tom Hanks and Steven Spielberg. Sure, they don't say "John Carmack's Quake VII" or "Will Right's Sim City V," they can't all be Sid Mieir (who incidentally heavily borrowed the concept of Civilization from an identically named Avalon Hill board game which later became its video game. Avalon Hill ceased publishing Civilization and Advanced Civilization and was bought up by Hasbro upon implosion. Now all they sell is Risk shit).

  15. Poetic justice by Psychochild · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's a bit funny, because at the 2001 GDC Mr. Rubin had a talk entitled "Coming Out Of the Garage". He spoke about how independent developers need to "grow up" in order to get out of the garage, and how they need to accept publishers as vital to the process of game development. Guess he's seen what happens from that attitude. ;)

    Make no mistake about it, the publisher holds most of the cards. The developer is at the publisher's whim for the most part, since the publisher holds the purse strings. The few developers you see that are recognized, namely id, Blizzard, etc, were first successful outside of publisher influence. Take id for example; they started with shareware games. Even before DOOM and Wolfenstein 3D they had Commander Keen. Once DOOM hit the big time through shareware channels, id was able to negotiate a favorable deal with publishers to get the game on shelves. Their next games were sweet deals with publishers because they were already recognized; the Quake games had practically guaranteed audiences, the publisher just needed to get boxes on the shelves.

    And, for the apologists that say the developer takes big risks, I'll have to call you on that bullshit. Great game development studios go out of business all the time, so obviously some risk is assumed by the developers as well, even if they have a wildly successful game series.

    The main problem, in my opinion, is that games cost a lot to develop these days, and small companies rarely have the money to create a modern game. In the past, creating a game like Wolf3D was the result of a fairly small team of people. These days you need lots of developers to create high production value assets; the market demands the shiniest graphics and the coolest explosions. A great game without the expected level of polish is going to be ignored for the most part.

    Yes, I realize that some people can look past the exterior to see a great game, but it's SO much easier to market a prettier game. My own game Meridian 59 shows this perfectly. The game has a DOOM-type software rendering engine, and gets consistently passed over in favor of the newer, shinier competitor. We've tried to develop a game that offers what other games on the market lack, namely balanced and fun Player vs. Player (PvP) combat. Yeah, this is considered a niche market, but not as niche as our subscriber numbers might otherwise indicate. (As a note, we are working on a significant engine upgrade. [Warning: large images.])

    In the end, publishers hold all the cards, and the developers aren't going to be able to do much about it. The real power lies in the game buyers, who can choose to either buy what's marketed to them, or they can go look for the independent game developers that are creating innovative products. But, for now, the alternative to taking publisher money is to focus on smaller-scale niche titles by developing a taste for Ramen noodles. There's a reason why the phrase "starving artist" exists.

    My thoughts,

    --
    Brian "Psychochild" Green
    MMO developer's blog