Slashdot Mirror


Molyneux On Future Of Game Design

Thanks to GameSpy for its interview with Lionhead boss and Populous creator Peter Molyneux, part of a talk held at the DICE Conference in Las Vegas. While admitting that "this industry tends to bumble through innovation", Molyneux noted freeform games could be less interesting than they looked, lamenting that "he always dreamed about making games that give people total freedom, but what he discovered is that complete freedom in a game world is boring after about ten minutes." He concluded by suggesting alternatives to the 'sandbox' approach, arguing: "People like to have challenges, goals, and something to struggle toward."

10 of 46 comments (clear)

  1. Pah, just because he can't make them. by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 5, Insightful
    There are still open games. They are called flight sims.

    But yeah really really open games are impossible at the moment. Even if you limit the world it seems an impossible task.

    Lets examine his own game Black & White (widely reviewed in reviews as an excellent games wich is prove enough game reviews are not worth the paper they are printed on) an "open" game. Except it isn't is it. You were constantly tehtered to this rather crap "city" and its braindead inhabitants. So instead of exploring and teaching your creature you were constanstly trying to manage the population. To much food and overcrowding, too little and they starve and impossible to get it right. My solution, grow plenty and have my creature eat the population. Actually I tried to be nice at first but one of my houses was build wrong with the door apparently under the ground so lots of people were trapped inside. Didn't notice this until I destroyed it since and they all came out burning and I went from good to evil in the time it took my ape to get out the marshmellows.

    To many of the current games still require idiotic micro management and restrictions because the developers seem unable to make a functioning AI or world model.

    Exactly how many times have you started a mission to save the entire world from thousands of heavily armed bad guys with 1 pistol and 2 clips of ammo? Worst offender recently was Silent Storm. Crack team of commandos at the height of WW2 and you are even told by the guy in the armoury "we got the finest of the british army at your disposal". What you get? 1 submachine gun, 1 rifle a few clips of ammo oh and a bandage. Wheee!

    As call of duty and medal of honor have shown some of the best moments in a fps aren't you with 1 pistol against 100 enemies but you and 100 allies against 100 enemies. Now that is the kinda stuff I want to see. Not me the single superman but playing a character in world wich behaves real without all the inconvenient bits of actually being in a war.

    Of course this is a lot harder. Give you a single pistol and you will be to busy ducking and running to notice that the dozen or so enemies are not actually a match they just got insane firepower and health points.

    So for the next Black & White (still in production?). Get rid of the insane micro management. Make it easier to control the creature (how often did you punish or reward for the wrong thing because the interface lagged?). Make crap like mouse gestures optional or at least talk to people who know how they work (opera does them great for me). Here is a tip. If you draw a cirle too fast it looks like a square to a computer. (to few point of reference)

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:Pah, just because he can't make them. by Flyboy+Connor · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Obviously, Black & White degenerated from an open game in the early design phase to a crap closed game when it was in published. It probably went like this:

      Early design: You are a God, you have a World, you have a Creature and you have a Populace. Go ahead, do what you like.

      Molyneux: But we need challenges otherwise it's boring!

      Not-So-Early design: You are a God, you have a World, you have a Creature and you have a Populace. Go ahead, beat all the small challenges we supply you with.

      Molyneux: But we need goals otherwise it's boring!

      Late design: You are a God, you have a World, you have a Creature, you have a Populace and you have a lot of small Challenges. Go ahead, find your way to all the other worlds we have supplied!

      Molyneux: But we need something to struggle towards otherwise it's boring!

      Published game: You are a God, you have a World, you have a Creature, you have a Populace, you have a lot of small Challenges, and you have other worlds to discover. Go ahead, beat the Other God that is competing with you!

      Players: What's the Creature good for?

    2. Re:Pah, just because he can't make them. by Hittite+Creosote · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Personally, the biggest error was not supporting a mod community early on in B&W.

      Really? I thought the biggest error was releasing the game when it was full of bugs it could walk across the floor on its own. The biggest challenge in finishing the game was getting to the end without it crashing.

  2. Re:Case in Point: GTA by Flyboy+Connor · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Morrowind, if played right, does not contain a lot of walking and running. I can reach any spot in Morrowind from any other spot in two minutes or less (on the surface, that is). It takes a while before you are powerful enough to do this, however. But that's just another challenge!

  3. Re:Molyneux Knows His Stuff by TRACK-YOUR-POSITION · · Score: 2, Insightful

    does this make a good game, or does this make a commercially successful game? And is there a difference? This is definitely a good question--especially considering his analogy. I've read plenty of awesome books which are difficult to sum up into one line--one is going to have trouble doing this with any modern non-genre book.

  4. Re:Case in Point: GTA by MotherInferior · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Perhaps that's the parent's main point. Who would want to strugle toward's making the game playable? I will work to make my commute from home to the office less taxing, but why would I want to do that in a game?

  5. Freedom in games.. by JavaLord · · Score: 4, Insightful

    he always dreamed about making games that give people total freedom, but what he discovered is that complete freedom in a game world is boring after about ten minutes.

    Not true, I've played both GTA and GTA3 for hours upon hours without ever finishing a mission (or even trying to). Finding creative things to do in the GTA sandbox was enough fun to keep me entertained. Some people don't want missions, or rules. After a days work they just want to come home, and do something fun not virtual chores like fetching Vinnys hookers or something.

    1. Re:Freedom in games.. by Ayaress · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Another is the Fallout RPGs. They aren't entirely open, since in both games you have a specific goal to accomplish in the end - but there are lots of ways to accomplish it, and lots of ways to get to that point. For example, there's one problem in Fallout 1 that can be accomplished in several ways:
      1. Slaghter the whole city (they're just mutants anyway)
      2. Get somebody else to slaughter the city
      3. Fix the water pump for the city and get them to freely give you the item you're after.
      4. Steal the item you're after and let the city die of thirst
      5. Fix the pump, get the item, then slaughter the city for more exp (they're just mutants, after all. If they trust you, that's their own fault, now isn't it?)

      Most problems in Fallout 1 and 2 have at least three ways to go about things - noncombatant (diplomacy/stealth), "good guy", and "kill them all and let God sort it out." - and depending on your character, there's usually different approaches you have to take to make each one work. It's not 100% free, but it gives a good feeling of being free.

      Fallout didn't get boring in 10 minutes by any means. Even now, five years later, I still play it once in a while.

      I'm with the people above - Molyneux just doesn't make them like he used to.

  6. Re:Rewards by neverkevin · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Whenever I look for quality in game design I always look to Zelda games. You can go anywhere and do stuff, so its freeform. But you have a predetermined quest, to get all the triforce pieces and beat ganon. Don't make a linear game in which the places you go and the things you do are in a predetermined order

    That is funny, because I would consider Zelda linear. Sure in the last Zelda game, you could go to any island (well after you got the ship and sail) and explore different Island, but you had to do things in a specific order to beat the game (you couldn't beat the 2nd dungon with out beating the first one) The only games that I have played that are nonlinear are FPS and MMORPG. The game is going to have to be somewhat linear if you want the game developer to provided a good coherent story.

  7. Re:About Black & White by An'Desha+Danin · · Score: 2, Insightful
    The key to managing the little worshippers is simply not to micro-manage them. It's hard to do because we're so used to "Demand-Response" interaction in games as being the route to success, not "Demand-Ignore". Those little guys really do learn. If they learn that when they cry "We need food," some mystical force shows up and gives it to them.. guess what they're going to do next time they're hungry? On the other hand, if a couple starve, they soon figure out that if they need food, they'd best go get it.
    Kinda answers a lot of religious quandaries, doesn't it?
    --
    Anything you might ever need to say about anything has already been said better by Penny Arcade.