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Viacom and DishNetwork Battle On Air Over Contract

Posted by CmdrTaco on from the this-is-just-bizarre dept.

An anonymous reader writes "This weekend, Viacom stations began scrolling messages on their cable stations(MTV, Comedy Central, Nickelodeon, etc) stating that DishNetwork may soon be removing the channels from its lineup and urging subscribers to call DishNetwork. DishNetwork subscribers(me!) may have begun to see black bars cover the messages and calls to DishNetwork regarding the messages were greeted with a recording telling subscribers to call the President and GM of KCBS. These antics stem from lawsuits here. I, for one, will be switching to DirecTV if they don't get this figured out."

45 of 604 comments (clear)

  1. Viacom really needs to watch themselves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    They currently own two broadcast networks (CBS and UPN), and abuse of their holdings like this to bully a carrier like this will get them in hot water with not only the FCC, but the FTC as well.

    1. Re:Viacom really needs to watch themselves by dreamchaser · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You forget that this is an election year and that due to corporate scandals and the like, the unwashes masses *want* to see some blood in the water.

    2. Re:Viacom really needs to watch themselves by LostCluster · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And let's not forget their own investors.

      Dish Network holds about 8% of the TV audience. What that means is that there will be an instant drop in the audience by 8% on all of the affected stations.

      Viacom does not own any distribution arms other than OTA TV stations. Their entire cable empire stands at risk if they can't make deals with outside distributors. Viacom needs Dish more than Dish needs Viacom.

    3. Re:Viacom really needs to watch themselves by cayenne8 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah...I don't understand why Dish has to pay Viacom to carry them. Doesn't Viacom already have commercials to support them? Dish is just a nice way to distribute their commercially supported content....you'd think they'd be more reasonable.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    4. Re:Viacom really needs to watch themselves by swordboy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It should be noted that Viacom are the ones putting the scoll bar on those channels - they are appearing to EVERYONE watching from any provider. The irony is that they are plumbing them through Dishnetwork's own system. Some cool stuff is here.

      Pick up the phone and call Don Corsini and let him know how you feel.

      The summary: Dishnetwork has the lowest cost programming in the US. They'd like to keep it that way so they are dropping these channels from their basic package. They will allow people to add them if the cost is deemed worth while on a per-user basis. This is good for the consumer and good for the free market because Viacom will learn that they can't just raise their prices arbitrarily and still keep their seat in the basic package.

      Fuck Viacom

      --

      Life is the leading cause of death in America.
    5. Re:Viacom really needs to watch themselves by macshune · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It's the same thing in the cable world. Most of the rate-rises on your cable bill aren't from increased "costs" of distribution or just the cable company wanting to raise prices. It's because the channel-owners charge cable companies money per household that receives the channel. This is why we are beginning to see a move by industry giants like Comcast to purchase content, rather than just be content with their distribution system. They did just try to buy disney and they own the golf channel, among others:)

      Also, at least in the cable world, the cable companies puts the commercials in. Dish probably injects the commercials too, so Viacom only makes dough off of the fees it charges Dish Network.

    6. Re:Viacom really needs to watch themselves by maxume · · Score: 5, Informative

      Your comment about the commercials is a bit of a simplification. The cable/dish companies do indeed inject commercials into the content, but only in the places that the company providing the feed lets them. If you don't believe me, check out MTV or any other channel on C Band. They have lots of commercials. The same commercials that they have on little dish/cable networks...

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    7. Re:Viacom really needs to watch themselves by haydenth · · Score: 4, Insightful

      unfortunately, its going to be Howard Stern's blood :(

      --
      - tom -
    8. Re:Viacom really needs to watch themselves by dreamchaser · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That is just the tip of the iceberg. Personally I don't like Stern at all, I think he's one of the most overrated radio personalities ever. However, I do support free speech, and I think that parents should be responsible for what their kids read/see/hear, within reason.

    9. Re:Viacom really needs to watch themselves by macdaddy357 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Swich to DirecTV, and Viacom will try to shake them down next. To hell with Viacom!

      --
      How ya like dat?
    10. Re:Viacom really needs to watch themselves by milkman_matt · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Swich to DirecTV, and Viacom will try to shake them down next. To hell with Viacom!

      That "I'll be switching to DirecTV" had me thinking (don't get me wrong, I think DirecTV has a very high quality product, and I was very happy with it until I moved somewhere where I couldn't have it.) Isn't this the company that just got busted under the RICO act for suing people with card reader/writers? Did that ever get settled? Like I said, I really dug that company, but I was extremely disappointed when I heard they were throwing out all of those lawsuits.

      -matt

    11. Re:Viacom really needs to watch themselves by ianfs · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Except that DirecTV has recently struck a deal with Viacom. Perhaps this is what the problem is and DirecTV is hoping to dislodge their main competitor with Viacom as a pawn?

      I'm not speaking on any authority here, just musing.

      --
      "Terminate?"
      "Terminate... with extreme prejudice"
    12. Re:Viacom really needs to watch themselves by leviramsey · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If they start, Bush and Ashcroft are going to go down as the people who sent the Republican Party into the graveyard.

      Rupert Murdoch is basically gambling his empire on DirecTV. Increased content regulations will hurt his profit (porn is the most profitable aspect of DirecTV's business). If the GOP becomes a threat to the profitability, Rupert will try to eliminate the GOP.

      This means prime-time specials on Fox, Fox Sports, and Fox News denouncing the Republican Party as the Communist Party of the USA. This means every GOP scandal will be fully aired in the New York Post.

      He's taken down governments in Australia and the UK before.

    13. Re:Viacom really needs to watch themselves by LoadStar · · Score: 4, Informative
      You can't buy them ala' cart anymore? I don't know anything about the Satalite providers, but I know that, at least here in Florida, the cable company's at least, and I thought all television signal carriers were required to offer ala' cart prices by law. I always figured that that requirement imposed on cable companies also held for satalite companies.

      I can't say whether you can select channels a la carte there where you are in Florida - I don't have that information. What I can respond to is the statement that law requires it.

      The Cable Act of 1992 actually says that they cannot link "premium" channels, such as HBO, Cinemax, etc., to a specific "tier" of programming. That is - you cannot be required to buy the "expanded" package just to get HBO. The law also says that they cannot require you to buy a package of premium channels - you can pick and choose which premium channel you want.

      The law does NOT say anything about picking and choosing your standard channels a la carte. If your cable provider allows you to do this - which I highly doubt - it's not because it's required by law, it's just because the provider either wants to be nice or feels that it's a business advantage to do so.

      Here's a transcript of a television news story that talks about this.

  2. The list of channels in play... by LostCluster · · Score: 5, Informative

    Here's the list of channels that will fall off of Dish Network if there's no deal by 11:59:59 PM ET tonight:

    BET
    Comedy Central
    MTV
    MTV2
    Nick Games & Sports
    Nickelodeon/Nick at Night (Both East and West versions)
    Noggin/The N
    VH1
    VH1 Classic
    All CBS O&O stations (listed here) within their local markets. (Those seeing WCBS, KCBS, or WBZ as a distant CBS service outside of their natrual zones will not be affected.)
    All UPN O&O stations (listed here) within their local markets. (Those seeing WSBK as a superstation outside of Boston will not be affected.)
    KCAL in the Los Angeles area.

    1. Re:The list of channels in play... by jellomizer · · Score: 5, Funny

      Wow so after they go off the air the average intelligence of the Dish Network subscribers rise 50 points.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    2. Re:The list of channels in play... by the_c0de_man · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I can live without any of those channels, except it would suck to not have the Daily show. Cartoon Network is really the only cable network that has anything good on anymore. Sealab 2020, Space Ghost, Aquatine Hunger Force, and my personal favorite, Home Movies (if you haven't seen it, I highly recommend it).

      MTV is such crap. They had an excellent show, Clone High, which they cancelled. As far as I'm concerned, Viacom can screw themselves.

      And Comedy Central is just boring most of the time. I can't figure out how Dave Attell earned the title of "Comedian". All he does is just take us around shitty neighborhoods chatting with stupid people. If I wanted to see that, I would watch Cops.

    3. Re:The list of channels in play... by no+reason+to+be+here · · Score: 4, Informative

      Who watches those channels anyway?

      Well, I for one watch The Daily Show with Jon Stewart on Comedy Central. It's by far the best thing on TV today. I would be seriously pissed right now if I were a Dish Network customer.

      There are probably quite a few geeks here on /. that want to be able to keep watching Enterprise--despite its overwhelming suckitude--on UPN, as well.

      --
      my pet machine
    4. Re:The list of channels in play... by LostCluster · · Score: 4, Informative

      You forgot Spike TV.

      It's true that Viacom owns SpikeTV and its former sister network CMT, but I'm having trouble confirming that they're covered by the contract that currently is in dispute. (The two may be covered by a contract that's a holdover from the days that SpikeTV was The Nashville Network they were owned by a freestanding Nashville-based company.)

      I know for sure that Viacom's Showtime and The Movie Channel properties are definitely under other contracts and therefore won't be involved in this situation.

    5. Re:The list of channels in play... by mrzaph0d · · Score: 4, Funny

      why would you put your computer outside?

      --
      this is just a placeholder till i send back my real sig from the future.
    6. Re:The list of channels in play... by Babbster · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I'm a Dish Network customer, and while I'm disappointed that I could lose Comedy Central, I know where to place my anger. Dish Network seems to be the only provider that goes to any effort at all to keep rates down. Viacom is trying to frustrate that goal by forcing Echostar to add yet another damn channel (Nicktoons) and raise provider rates on channels that are already one-third (or more, counting overnight "paid programming") commercials. Those costs don't get paid by cable/satellite providers - they're paid by customers who get the costs passed on to them.

      Go Charlie [Ergen, spiritual and actual leader of Dish Network]!

  3. sounds familiar by bandy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This sounds familiar to the situation where the owners of KRON [tv] in San Francisco wanted them to air a station of theirs from LA, and withheld broadcast rights to KRON until they caved.

    We did without NBC for six months, Charlie [Dish] never caved. NBC moved itself to a San Jose station and we get NBC again.

    Viacom probably wants Dish to carry additional channels or drop competing channels from their line-up.

    --
    "You might as well get your son a ticket to hell as give him a five string banjo." -unknown minister
    1. Re:sounds familiar by Babbster · · Score: 4, Informative
      Specifically, Viacom is trying to force Dish to carry the "Nicktoons" channel, and is trying to get an increase in the rates that Echostar pays Viacom for the whole lineup. More details in this article.

      I don't know jack about the rate increases and how fair they are, though I have to wonder how much extra commercial networks (ALL of the affected broadcast/cable channels have paid commercial advertising) should be expecting Dish Network and, by extension, their customers to pay for those channels. But the Nicktoons issue is a clear example of a media conglomerate using its consolidated power to force the purchase of something that the customer doesn't want.

      The only thing that would really affect me (and deeply at that) is the loss of Comedy Central. But I'm willing to put up with that in the hopes that the little guy (Echostar) can put the big guy (Viacom) in his place.

  4. I was wondering what that was about.. by falzbro · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm a Dish subscriber. I saw this message begin to scroll by several times over the weekend, and wondered what the hell was up.

    Each time, a few words in, a black bar appeared across the screen to block it out.

    This explains a lot. How childish.

    1. Re:I was wondering what that was about.. by orthogonal · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Each time, a few words in, a black bar appeared across the screen to block it out.
      [ from the article: "DishNetwork subscribers(me!) may have begun to see black bars cover the messages"]

      Now, I seem to remember a fuss about how modifying web-proxies (like Proxomitron) which remove ads from web pages, and TIVO-like devices, which allow the editing out or skipping of broadcast ads, violated the creator's copyright.

      My feeling is that editing out, as an end-user, is perfectly acceptable, equivalent to glancing away from a TV or scribbling over an ad in a magazine.

      But that's because I got the content the creator wished me to get, and I made a decision to ignore it. And indeed, that's what a judge decided in the case of those browser add-ons that replace a site's ads with their own: since the end user (wittingly or nor!) installed it, it's ok.

      But were my ISP to start modifying pages I received via my ISP's pipe, I'd be outraged: it's one thing for me to ignore whatever ad is showing on Slashdot today (yes, I use Proxomitron), it's quite another not to have the option to see that ad. Similarly, at one point, my hosting company (not my ISP) was filtering my email for spam. I promptly told them that wasn't what I wanted: I'm paranoid enough to about missing mail (you never know when an old ex-girlfriend is suddenly going to realize she's still in love with you -- and so far none of them have, but I live in hope ;) ), and besides, I'm perfectly capable of filtering for spam on my end.

      So how can it be legal for Dish to edit out content that's is efficiently advertisements on Viacom's stations?

      And how can we let the precedent be set that a carrier, not a creator or an end-user, has any right to do this? Because while what's being edited out is effectively an advertisement by Viacom, it is also an editorial comment. which leads to a slippery slope: if Dish can censor this, can they also censor a story on "60 Minutes" critical of Dish? A new story about, or an advertisement by, a political candidate that Dish doesn't want you to see?

      Just because you're the client of some carrier should not mean that that carrier has any right to regulate -- or, as in this case, change what you see. This is dangerous, and desires to be slapped down quickly and decisively.

      --
      Opinions on the Twiddler2 hand-held keyboard?
  5. As a Direct TV Viewer... by 403Forbidden · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I still get those damn scrolling messages. Haven't looked to see if they covered them up with anything, but it's quite a freaking shame to have MY PAID FOR channels have a scroll-bar at the bottom because of a scuffle with an entirely different company.

    The message itself was inflamitory, saying how customers should call Dish to keep the channels that "they [the consumer] paid for!" when that doesn't describe the scope of the suit in the least...

  6. Wasn't just Dish Network by danuary · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Although the ads were -directed- at DishNetwork viewers they were visible on other networks. I saw the "Attention Dish Network Subscribers" message when watching Comedy Central over the weekend -- and I have Time Warner Cable in NYC. I'm most certainly not who they were looking to reach.

  7. Crawl being seen on all other providers too by LostCluster · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The annoying crawls are not just limited to Dish Network. Viacom has no way to force a crawl onto only Dish Network feeds of their networks, so they have to put the crawls onto the network's backhaul feeds and therefore everybody sees them.

    I've been told that DirecTV's call centers have also been geting calls from their own consumers who don't read the whole ticker and are wondering if they're at risk too. (DirecTV's contracts are not lapsing right now, only Dish's.)

  8. Whats with annoying customers? by Saven+Marek · · Score: 4, Insightful

    First we have SCO suing customers (and another company did too last year) and now crap like this being pulled with companies using customers as pawns in their power games between each other.

    Maybe companies are forgetting one thing and one essential thing. No matter how much money they have or how many years theyve been around and on top they got where they are by being a service to their customers

    It sounds like neither of these companies are doing that any more. It's the death throes of business when distraction overcomes service.

    nude mac desktop gallery

    1. Re:Whats with annoying customers? by ciroknight · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm surprised you didn't also mention the RIAA suing its longtime customers for downloading music/breaching contract. If anything, I see 2004 as being the Year of the Consumer; we're all getting pissed at the Mega-Corporations who are in control over 75% of everything, and finding cheaper, better ways around them. Just look at the major Airlines, being outsold and circumvented by shorter, commuter flights because people see them as safer, and a hell of a lot cheaper.

      I really think America needs to go back and re-examine the Anti-Trust, the Corporation laws, and the Patent/Copyright laws. None seem to be working and it's time we stand up for ourselves and take responsibility for them not working.

      --
      "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
  9. The message was... by Ayandia · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The message was something like this:

    DishNetwork will stop offering BET, MTV, Nick at Night, Comedy Central...and many others. DishNetwork subscribers, call DishNetwork and tell them you want to keep the channels you paid for.

    It seemed to me like they were really saying:

    DishNetwork subscribers, please call DishNetwork and tie up their support lines with furious indignance while we spread disinformation!

    But the message had a complete lack of WHY those channels were going away, if at all. Anyone have some insight?

  10. Customers have choices... by LostCluster · · Score: 5, Informative

    Dish Network is trying to hold the line on the wholesale price of content. DirecTV, by comparison, just raised prices for their main content packages.

    So, if you want to get your content from the low-price supplier, you want to be with Dish Network and put up with these occasional squabbles. If you want a distributor that has a history of bending over whenever the prices go up, you go to DirecTV or your local cable company. Competition in a marketplace is good that way...

  11. Childish. by Mori+Chu · · Score: 4, Funny

    I saw these messages the other day. I found it a little annoying. I'm on Comcast cable, and I have nothing to do with this little squabble, yet I have to watch these childish messages scroll across my screen on several channels. It reminds me of what I have heard about ESPN consistently charging a fortune to the cable and dish companies for the privilege of carrying their channel. At least ESPN doesn't have Dick Vitale jump out at me during a broadcast saying, "Call your satellite operator and keep us on your channel lineup, baby!"

  12. not a Dish fan, but... by wonderdog · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I've been a DishNet sub for 8 yrs now. To say I'm unhappy with the quality of their products would be an understatement. I'm ready to jump ship to DTV as soon as the HD DirecTiVo ships.

    BUT, Viacom is the evil party here IMO. They're holding Dish and all of its customers hostage until Dish accepts unreasonable contract terms. I for one, don't want higher TV monthly charges just because Viacom forces Dish to carry some obscure channels that the vast majority of subs will never watch.

    A la carte pricing would address this, but that's a whole nuther discussion.

  13. Re:DirecTV rules by falzbro · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Who would ever subscribe to Dishnet? DirecTV rules! Seriously, I've seen both, and DirecTV won hands down!

    Those of us who want a package for $25.

  14. its a bloody shame by dj245 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Its a bloody shame that this is happening. I've found that the DirectTV box is buggy, or full of nasty "features". My carefully pruned favorites lists will have channels added to it at random times. I am often surprised to find that my 30-channel DirectTV favorites list has grown overnight to a 50-channel list with the inclusion of all the DTV informational channels and most of the QVC and shopping type channels. Does anyone elses box do this? I'd like to hope its a coincidental bug, but I'm the ever cynic, so I'm afraid its a very shameful "feature".

    --
    Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
    1. Re:its a bloody shame by Chibi+Merrow · · Score: 4, Funny

      QVC and shopping type channels

      Yeah, that "bug" is generally referred to as a 'Wife'. Keeps happening to more and more people, strangely enough... Nothing a sledgehammer and a pit full of lye won't fix.

      Arrrgghhh my karma is burning!

      --
      Maxim: People cannot follow directions.
      Increases in truth directly with the length of time spent explaining them
  15. Forbes writeup by danuary · · Score: 5, Informative

    Substantially better writeup of the issues involved here.

  16. I work there.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    I actually work For MTV Networks,

    I'm not happy about this either, but from I was told by management, Dish wants to pick and choose what they want to air, instead of taking packages. (ie they want MTV MTV2, Nick, and Comedy central but not Spike and cmt, Im not sure if the exact grouping though...) and Viacoms stance is its a package, they want some they take them all. This has started a pissing contest.

    Over the weekend We started moving the location of the crawl in order for it to be seen despite the black bar.

    1. Re:I work there.. by ivan256 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Dish wants to pick and choose what they want to air

      Over their own network? God forbid.

    2. Re:I work there.. by SyntheticTruth · · Score: 5, Insightful


      This is *exactly* why ala-cart channels are better for citizens. The package idea would not fly in any other market.

      "No, sir, you can not buy that printer without also buying the computer."

      "No, sir, you can not have a soda without also buying the burger and fries."

      The media companies, however, are huge and know they have the weight to toss around. I've never used either dish provider, but I'm glad to see one stand up to keep citizen's prices lower (and thus their own, of course.)

  17. Re:DirecTV rules by nate1138 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    DirecTV rules!

    Their content is _arguably_ better (especially when it comes to HD), but the company is no better than the RIAA. Remember the smart card lawsuits? Why on earth would you willingly do business with a company like this?

    --
    Where's my lobbyist? Right here.
  18. Re:And as usual the customer gets screwed... by vidarh · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You miss the point. Viacom is putting the thumbscrew on and demands more money. Dish Network has told them they want to keep negotiating because they don't think the fees are worth it - if Dish gives in the customers will have to pay more. Obviously Dish Network is looking out for themselves too, but they have the same interest as their customers: To keep the price of their service down.

  19. Re:Censorship? by the_mad_poster · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No, it's not censorship... jesus christ. Viacom is intentionally scrolling messages to try and turn Dish Network subscribers against Dish Network by making it seem like Dish is "threatening" (I quote) to drop various popular channels such as Nickelodeon, Comedy Central, etc.

    I don't think it's unfair to expect Dish to try and block out that kind of obvious bullshit. If the issue really were that simple, then okay, but Viacom is trying to play ignorant consumers against Dish Network by manipulating them with half-truths and menacing terms. I see nothing wrong with Dish trying to defend itself from these flagrant attacks by blotting the messages out.

    --
    Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
  20. Re:You should switch anyways... by Ath · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you want to know an advantage, how about Dish never sued any of their customers or started filing blanket lawsuits against anyone with a completely legal and legitimate ISO card programmer.

    If you are not willing to vote with your dollars, what are you willing to do?