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Viacom and DishNetwork Battle On Air Over Contract
An anonymous reader writes "This weekend, Viacom stations began scrolling messages on their cable stations(MTV, Comedy Central, Nickelodeon, etc) stating that DishNetwork may soon be removing the channels from its lineup and urging subscribers to call DishNetwork. DishNetwork subscribers(me!) may have begun to see black bars cover the messages and calls to DishNetwork regarding the messages were greeted with a recording telling subscribers to call the President and GM of KCBS. These antics stem from lawsuits here. I, for one, will be switching to DirecTV if they don't get this figured out."
They currently own two broadcast networks (CBS and UPN), and abuse of their holdings like this to bully a carrier like this will get them in hot water with not only the FCC, but the FTC as well.
Here's the list of channels that will fall off of Dish Network if there's no deal by 11:59:59 PM ET tonight:
BET
Comedy Central
MTV
MTV2
Nick Games & Sports
Nickelodeon/Nick at Night (Both East and West versions)
Noggin/The N
VH1
VH1 Classic
All CBS O&O stations (listed here) within their local markets. (Those seeing WCBS, KCBS, or WBZ as a distant CBS service outside of their natrual zones will not be affected.)
All UPN O&O stations (listed here) within their local markets. (Those seeing WSBK as a superstation outside of Boston will not be affected.)
KCAL in the Los Angeles area.
This sounds familiar to the situation where the owners of KRON [tv] in San Francisco wanted them to air a station of theirs from LA, and withheld broadcast rights to KRON until they caved.
We did without NBC for six months, Charlie [Dish] never caved. NBC moved itself to a San Jose station and we get NBC again.
Viacom probably wants Dish to carry additional channels or drop competing channels from their line-up.
"You might as well get your son a ticket to hell as give him a five string banjo." -unknown minister
I'm a directv subscriber, and I'm seeing these messages as well. It scared the hell out of my wife yesterday. She thought it applied to us, and was really mad.
These kind of games are very annoying. Honestly, even if dish network did drop the channels, how long do you think it would last? They would either bring them back or loose a lot of customers.
I'm a Dish subscriber. I saw this message begin to scroll by several times over the weekend, and wondered what the hell was up.
Each time, a few words in, a black bar appeared across the screen to block it out.
This explains a lot. How childish.
...two big companies fighting and suing, and who gets screwed? The customers. They're the ones losing the channels and getting black bars on their screens...
And who wins? The lawyers, of course.
libertarianswag.com
One wonders whether these calls for help actually get people to call in, and how many people have to call for the company to want to keep a show. I'd imagine some people see that and say "sweet merciful crap, first commercials, and now a telethon in between". Guess it's a good thing I'm too much of an internet junkie to care about TV anymore. :)
I still get those damn scrolling messages. Haven't looked to see if they covered them up with anything, but it's quite a freaking shame to have MY PAID FOR channels have a scroll-bar at the bottom because of a scuffle with an entirely different company.
The message itself was inflamitory, saying how customers should call Dish to keep the channels that "they [the consumer] paid for!" when that doesn't describe the scope of the suit in the least...
Although the ads were -directed- at DishNetwork viewers they were visible on other networks. I saw the "Attention Dish Network Subscribers" message when watching Comedy Central over the weekend -- and I have Time Warner Cable in NYC. I'm most certainly not who they were looking to reach.
If I had to guess, I would say that Dish is going to get sued for the black bar. I don't think they are entitled to alter the broadcast, but only to re-broadcast.
The annoying crawls are not just limited to Dish Network. Viacom has no way to force a crawl onto only Dish Network feeds of their networks, so they have to put the crawls onto the network's backhaul feeds and therefore everybody sees them.
I've been told that DirecTV's call centers have also been geting calls from their own consumers who don't read the whole ticker and are wondering if they're at risk too. (DirecTV's contracts are not lapsing right now, only Dish's.)
First we have SCO suing customers (and another company did too last year) and now crap like this being pulled with companies using customers as pawns in their power games between each other.
Maybe companies are forgetting one thing and one essential thing. No matter how much money they have or how many years theyve been around and on top they got where they are by being a service to their customers
It sounds like neither of these companies are doing that any more. It's the death throes of business when distraction overcomes service.
nude mac desktop gallery
The message was something like this:
DishNetwork will stop offering BET, MTV, Nick at Night, Comedy Central...and many others. DishNetwork subscribers, call DishNetwork and tell them you want to keep the channels you paid for.
It seemed to me like they were really saying:
DishNetwork subscribers, please call DishNetwork and tie up their support lines with furious indignance while we spread disinformation!
But the message had a complete lack of WHY those channels were going away, if at all. Anyone have some insight?
Dish Network is trying to hold the line on the wholesale price of content. DirecTV, by comparison, just raised prices for their main content packages.
So, if you want to get your content from the low-price supplier, you want to be with Dish Network and put up with these occasional squabbles. If you want a distributor that has a history of bending over whenever the prices go up, you go to DirecTV or your local cable company. Competition in a marketplace is good that way...
You are wrong. DirecTV is owned by Hughes (GM) and is being bought out by Murdoch (who owns NewsCorp). DishNetwork wanted to purchase DTV but the FCC (or pehaps DOJ or both) put the kibosh on that, as there would then only be 1 sat provider. Not sure I like Murdoch better owning my prefered form of TV delivery, but oh well.
I saw these messages the other day. I found it a little annoying. I'm on Comcast cable, and I have nothing to do with this little squabble, yet I have to watch these childish messages scroll across my screen on several channels. It reminds me of what I have heard about ESPN consistently charging a fortune to the cable and dish companies for the privilege of carrying their channel. At least ESPN doesn't have Dick Vitale jump out at me during a broadcast saying, "Call your satellite operator and keep us on your channel lineup, baby!"
I've been a DishNet sub for 8 yrs now. To say I'm unhappy with the quality of their products would be an understatement. I'm ready to jump ship to DTV as soon as the HD DirecTiVo ships.
BUT, Viacom is the evil party here IMO. They're holding Dish and all of its customers hostage until Dish accepts unreasonable contract terms. I for one, don't want higher TV monthly charges just because Viacom forces Dish to carry some obscure channels that the vast majority of subs will never watch.
A la carte pricing would address this, but that's a whole nuther discussion.
Who would ever subscribe to Dishnet? DirecTV rules! Seriously, I've seen both, and DirecTV won hands down!
Those of us who want a package for $25.
I'd have thought that with all the crap their Infinity radio division is having with the FCC, not to mention the Janet Jackson flap they'd be doing their best to stay off the radar screen!
I don't know whether these big companies are arrogant or stupid, but it sure illustrates why media monopolies are bad for the consumer.Its a bloody shame that this is happening. I've found that the DirectTV box is buggy, or full of nasty "features". My carefully pruned favorites lists will have channels added to it at random times. I am often surprised to find that my 30-channel DirectTV favorites list has grown overnight to a 50-channel list with the inclusion of all the DTV informational channels and most of the QVC and shopping type channels. Does anyone elses box do this? I'd like to hope its a coincidental bug, but I'm the ever cynic, so I'm afraid its a very shameful "feature".
Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
Substantially better writeup of the issues involved here.
I actually work For MTV Networks,
I'm not happy about this either, but from I was told by management, Dish wants to pick and choose what they want to air, instead of taking packages. (ie they want MTV MTV2, Nick, and Comedy central but not Spike and cmt, Im not sure if the exact grouping though...) and Viacoms stance is its a package, they want some they take them all. This has started a pissing contest.
Over the weekend We started moving the location of the crawl in order for it to be seen despite the black bar.
DirecTV rules!
Their content is _arguably_ better (especially when it comes to HD), but the company is no better than the RIAA. Remember the smart card lawsuits? Why on earth would you willingly do business with a company like this?
Where's my lobbyist? Right here.
It doesn't surprise me that one TV company is flaming another with scrolling messages. What does surprise me is the fact that a bunch of 80's demo coders managed to get these jobs in the first place.
All you folks paying for some sort of Dish based access feel like cattle now?
Boy I sure do. If anything needs a bit of regulation, this industry does. People should not have to wonder if they can watch their paid for programming or not depending on the whims of some fat ass execs.
Do you think Dish will compensate their customer base? Do they even care about their customer base?
Too many programming choices are an either or bundle situation. People are stuck paying high rates in return for few real choices about their programming.
Dish and Direct TV both should be forced to carry programming on a RAND basis. Their customers should be able to choose what they want with a finer grained degree than they do now.
The bundled programming does not save any of us a dime because the 30 percent of good channels are spread throughout the bundles. This forces people to just pay for all the crap at once, rather than be able to pick 'n choose.
We are seeing this because there is no real check on the power these distributors have over both their customer base and those who seek to distribute programming.
Viacom is going to lose on this one because Dish holds most all the cards. People are going to wonder what happened. Dish will make sure and tell them their version first.
Blogging because I can...
No, it's not censorship... jesus christ. Viacom is intentionally scrolling messages to try and turn Dish Network subscribers against Dish Network by making it seem like Dish is "threatening" (I quote) to drop various popular channels such as Nickelodeon, Comedy Central, etc.
I don't think it's unfair to expect Dish to try and block out that kind of obvious bullshit. If the issue really were that simple, then okay, but Viacom is trying to play ignorant consumers against Dish Network by manipulating them with half-truths and menacing terms. I see nothing wrong with Dish trying to defend itself from these flagrant attacks by blotting the messages out.
Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
Tell them how annoyed your are that they'd try and win in the court of public opinion instead of following regular, non-annoying negotiations:
Viacom
1515 Broadway
New York, NY 10036
tel.(212) 258-6000
fax: (212) 258-6464
As a DirecTV customer, and generally passive viewer from the outside, I just can't understand the ire that this is causing people that don't have DISH.
It's a banner that scrolls quickly along the bottom of the screen. It's not terribly obtrusive, it's not very long, and it made me interested in what was going on. It made me more than just a passive viewer-- I wanted to know the details. I looked things up.
Yes, my rates just went up-- now I know why. And yet, considering just what percentage of my time watching TV is spent on Viacom channels, I'm not going to sweat the small stuff. I'm still paying just $3 a month more than I was, less than the cost of a single DVD rental. Had they done the same increase just to keep crap that I don't watch (as opposed to the crap that I do), I'd likely be making my opinion known to them, both by directly contacting DirecTV to complain, as well as researching other options.
But yes, for now I'm willing to pay more to maintain those channels that I watch. Especially now that they're rerunning Beavis and Butthead on MTV2. :)
Software is like a goldfish - it'll grow to fit the size of it's bowl...
Yeah Dish network for resisting Viacom's cash grab. Personally I think every one of the channels mentioned should be FREE to the cable and sat operators and anyone with a dish for that matter. They are commercial supported broadcasters, not pay channels. Somewhere along the line the rules changed and now we PAY to watch commercials. Screw that. HBO, no problem because viewer fees are the only way to have movies without commercials. But MTV and Comedy Central should be able to support themselves with the commercials the same way the traditional broadcasters manage to get along without collecting fees from the viewers.
Democrat delenda est
O.J. Simpson might be able to get away with murder, but once he steals cable, hes gone too far...o urces_news_html
http://wcco.com/national/DirecTV-OJSimpson-aa/res
No, it's not censorship... jesus christ.
Censorship is still censorship. I don't support the KKK, but I respect their right to say what they want openly without being told what they can and cannot say.
As one poster above put it, Dish is doing the right thing. Viacom is in the wrong and Dish is not caving to their demands. I am a Dish customer and will remain one because I respect their commitment to the customer. In Minnesota we are facing a similar soap opera with the adoption (or non-adoption) of Victory Sports network. Carl Pohlad (the owner of the Twins) figured he could charge outrageous carriage fees for his untested new product and the carriers wouldn't balk at either the fees or the requirement that VS be carried on "basic" and not be offered as part of a premium package. Boy did he underestimate the resolve of stubborn minnesotans. I think Viacom is playing their hand just as poorly.
Hats off to Viacom for this brazen and underhanded move. Not only did they post Dish's number and completely flood Dish's phone network with irate customers, they also hurt Dish by scaring off people who saw the scroll and will avoid Dish network so they don't miss channels. But I think it will come back to haunt them. They set the tone, and I hope they will remember who was trying to screw who first when those stations go off air to be replaced by a black title card with a Viacom's phone number urging customers to call them and demand their stations back. Dish has the propaganda power then, and the two days of irate people calling Dish will easily be countered by weeks of irate people calling Viacom.
As a Dish Network customer I'm willing to put up with a few days loss of Viacom crap if it means my bill won't have the obscene inflation that cable customers have to put up with. My Dish Network bill is $34.99 (only rising $1 in the last year) compared to the $65+ I'd have to pay Time Warner for a package with the channels I want.
In my eyes the cost of cable isn't worth it. For my viewing habits getting the highest level of Netflix subscription would be better then putting up with a $65 cable bill.
Viacom should get smacked for scrolling misleading messages to all the cable and sat TV networks. I am paying for content not for your propaganda.
As mentioned before, Dish Network subscribers concerned about the issue may wish to tune into "Charlie Chat" tonight at 9pm. Dish Network's CEO has a show on channel 100 or 101 once a month where customers can call in with questions. (If you miss the show it is rerun frequently).
--- polarbear
Censorship is still censorship. I don't support the KKK, but I respect their right to say what they want openly without being told what they can and cannot say.
Ahh but there is where you become lost, grasshopper. For the only 'right' regarding speech is freedom from Government censorship. A corporation is entirely within its rights to control what is broadcast over its own satellite. Much as a sysadmin can delete forum posts he or she does not want to host.
Repeat the mantra again, young one...
"Congress shall make no law... abridging the freedom of speech."
"Congress shall make no law... abridging the freedom of speech."
"Congress shall make no law... abridging the freedom of speech."
Maxim: People cannot follow directions.
Increases in truth directly with the length of time spent explaining them
This won't be taken away, will it? A friend of mine wants to know.
We have secretly replaced these Slashdot mods' sense of humor with a rusty nail. Let's see if they notice!!
If you want to know an advantage, how about Dish never sued any of their customers or started filing blanket lawsuits against anyone with a completely legal and legitimate ISO card programmer.
If you are not willing to vote with your dollars, what are you willing to do?
The wacky seasons, the reality shows, the lack of any script writing, 30% commercials... it all pissed me off.
I dropped my cable TV to the lowest possible tier and signed up for Netflix instead. When I'm sure my cable company can properly separate cable and Internet services, I'll drop the cable TV altogether.
At a DVD per day, it should take me a little more than 40 years to get through the Netflix inventory. No commercials, and I get to watch what I want when I want it -- the reason I signed up for cable to begin with.
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a USPS mail truck full of DVDs.
Can You Say Linux? I Knew That You Could.
I can't seem to find "Homestar Runner" anywhere!
Yeah, that's what I thought.
Now if I can just get my wife to see things my way...
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Apparently, Viacom doesn't have a problem demanding people call someone else. Here's hoping they don't mind Slashdotters contacting them and objecting to their behavior (which is not appropriate in any way).
Viacom Productions
Phone: (310) 234-5000
Fax: (310) 234-5059
10880 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 1101
Los Angeles, CA 90024
Perry Simon President Viacom Television
Sigs are like bumper stickers.
I, for one, will be switching to DirecTV if they don't get this figured out.
That's what they want. Dish Network doesn't want to pay more money and charge you more. They're fighting for you. If you can't see that, you're a total dick.
Think about things once in a while. It might do you some good.
I, for one, will be switching to DirecTV if they don't get this figured out.
There was a similar situation with DirecTV, the ABC Family channel, and the 700 Club a while ago. In that case, however, it was DirecTV playing hardball. IIRC, DirecTV wanted to pay less to ABC for the ABC Family channel, and threatened to drop it. Since ABCF is the cable outlet for the 700 Club, the issue of "freedom of religion" came up. So DirecTV started a scroll that said something like "The 700 Club is carried by a number of local channels throughout the country." A deal was eventually worked out, and ABCF is still on DirecTV.
There was also a nasty battle between ESPN and Cox Communications.
In short, these disputes are becoming commonplace. Thank goodness so many good shows are being put out on DVD!
Travis
DirectTV extorts money from people if they own a SmartCard reader..
DishNetwork and viacom play foolish "kids" games with the consumers.
and Comcast is just, well expensive, and could care less about it's consumers.
I have DirecTV. I'd love to see them (DTV, Dish, cable co's) break these blocs of extra-cost channels out as separate options just like the premium movie channels.
You want the Viacom channels?
You want the ESPN lineup?
You want the Disney lineup?
You want the Discovery/History channels?
You want Starz?
You want Cinemax?
etc. etc.
I like Comedy Central, but if it was the only channel I wanted among all the other Viacom garbage, I'd skip if it would save me money.
I'd also like to not pay for all that sports programming I never watch!
Since the content providers only get paid per subscribing household, they'd find out real quick how valuable their content is when it comes as a distinct package rather than scattered throughout all the current tiers.
ON DELETE CASCADE
Interesting...I cannot find Viacom contact information on their website.
http://www.viacom.com/factsandfig.tin#contact yields nothing...no phone numbers, addresses, email, nothing.
Anyone know how I can email Sumner Redstone? (grin)
"You cannot find out which view is the right one by science in the ordinary sense." - C.S. Lewis on Intelligent Design
I've been waiting for someone to do this.
I'm sick of having to pay for dozens of channels I never watch and don't want, just to get the half dozen I do want.
I want the cable company to let me pay for just the channels I want. That means no news channels and no sports channels. Ironically, most of the Viacom channels are ones I'd pay for.
I'd also pay extra for HBO, if I didn't have to pay for all those news and sports channels... but since I do, no HBO for me.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
Comment removed based on user account deletion
This is what Tivo is for. I don't watch television either. I watch Tivo. It's like an entirely different medium.
This is the problem the cable/sat companies can't deal with. They bundle channels into packages so they can sell advertising. If they let users pick the programming they wanted a la carte, they'd lose tons of ad revenue because most of the channels nobody wants. Tivo essentially does the same thing, which is why companies like Comcast are doing their best to shunt its implementation.
TV sucks. I agree with you - it's probably better to not have any TV than to have to wade through 1000 channels of crap, but with something like Tivo, it allows you to extract just the content you feel is worthwhile.
From two years in a DTV call center, I can say that the contracts they make you sign are because of the cost of the equipment and installation. Or at least that's what supervisors told us. I'm not sure if we were supposed to let the customers know that or not, but it did help them see it from the company's viewpoint when they were pissed cause they couldn't leave.
Granted, it's better for the company if you commit to a year of service, but some of the equipment deals give you three receivers and installation for less than $100. Speaking only in terms of DirecTV giving you the equipment (which they didn't until the tail end of my sentence, er, employment with them which ended two years ago) rather than an outside dealer, that was pretty cheap.
If you're buying your equipment from anybody other than DirecTV (I don't know how Dish does it, what I know is DTV), you signing a contract allows the equipment dealer to get money from DirecTV. The dealer often loses money on the equipment, depending on what special they have going on at the time, but they make it back and then some with the money they get from DTV when you sign the contract.
It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye. Then it's fun and games without depth perception.
You are bitching because Dish and DTV are making you buy a package when you only want one channel? Well, what the hell do you think this squabble is about? Dish and DTV have to buy the whole package from Viacom just to get one channel. Dish and DTV want to pay Viacom per channel just as much as you (whether they want to allow you to pay per channel is different).
The reason Viacom won't do the PPC is that the number of people who will actively decide to pay for Nicktoons is much lower than that for Comedy Central... therefore it will be tough to support that channel. The reason Dish and DTV won't do PPC is that the cost for them to distribute Nicktoons is the exact same as Comedy Central. And they have to distribute it to everyone (just that everyone won't be decoding it), so if nobody buys it, why distribute it?
So, would you rather pay $2 per channel and only get the 30 or so channels you watch, or $40 and get 300 channels? I know I'd opt for the first. The problem becomes that lower rated channels can no longer support themselves. I don't know their stats, but I'm guessing Golf Channel is gone.
IANAL, but I play one on
uhhh...you're confusing the multi-year package reported price with viacom's "annual" rate increase.
For example, 7% for 6 years is a 42% rate increase.
Gee, how original. Another tv thread and yet another person who seems to think that we care that they don't watch tv.
Ok, fine. You don't watch tv? Well I don't go around killing people. Its about as relevent to this thread as your post.
Way back during the C band dish era I worked for a third party packager. I must say that Viacom's methods closely match Microsoft's. Whenever they would have a Channel that wasn't selling very well they would make you tie it to a more popular station. Back then ESPN was a big seller and VH1 was having some trouble. Their soultion was to allow the packager to sell ESPN only if VH1 was included. Basically they were forcing the customers to pay for VH1 whether they wanted it or not. After caving in to them for a couple of years we finally called their bluff. We told them we would be dropping Showtime and The Movie Channel as a result of their forcing channels on customers. We even printed up 40,000 bill inserts notifying customers that we would no longer be offering the channels and anyone with a current subscription would be refunded the balance and be given three months of HBO/Cinemax free. Faced with losing 40,000 customers and giving HBO/Cinemax a PR win Viacom dropped the bundling requirement for us. I cna't help but feel like Dish is facing the same thing we were. If they stick to their guns Vicom will cave, the scrolling message shows that they are desperate.
I've been a happy Dish customer for years. I am proud of Charlie Ergen standing up to these jerkoffs. Because he has the stones to do what's right, our rates have increased at only about 1% per year over the past 5 years. Can any of you cable or DirecTV zealots say the same? I didn't think so. Dish Network is the only service that actively fights to keep its customers' rates down.
I might miss the Power Block on Spike TV, but won't lose any sleep over the loss of any of Viacom's programming - since 95% of it is crap and reruns of crap to me anyway (and that's before I figure in the endless commercials and the infomercials that occupy more than 12 hours a day per channel).
Would I be willing to pay more money to keep any of it? HELL NO! You get 'em Charlie!
I hope the FCC and the DOJ each break a boot off in Viacom's arse over these obviously illegal practices.
--
Out of order? Fuck! Even in the future nothing works! - Dark Helmet (Rick Moranis) "Spaceballs"