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God Save The UK Developer?

Thanks to TotalGames.net for its GamesTM-reprinted feature on the alleged fall of the British game developer. The piece argues: "It all used to be so different in the Eighties. Ignoring any rose-tinted arguments about whether games back then were better, worse or more peanut butter-flavoured, the inarguable statement can be made that they were certainly more British." But now, even though "the most popular game of this new decade - Grand Theft Auto - is British, despite all of Rockstar's attempts to hide the fact", the piece laments the lack of distinctive UK games with Python-esque worldwide impact: "Of course, it doesn't cost £5 million to pick up a pen and start writing a sketch about parrots, but surely the odd very obviously British game could be smuggled through?"

25 of 74 comments (clear)

  1. Coming Soon by samael · · Score: 4, Informative

    Black & White 2
    Fable
    BC
    The Movies

    And that's just from _one_ UK group....

    1. Re:Coming Soon by bear+pimp · · Score: 5, Interesting
      • Rage
      • Hotgen
      • Kaboom Studios
      • Computer Artworks
      • Mucky Foot
      • Crawfish
      • Attention To Detail
      • Silicon Dreams.
      Just a few of the studios that were lost (as touched on in the article)

      Also, Infogrames (I won't sully the name of Atari by using it) pulled the plug on it's UK studios. Core has been pulled apart and is left with a far smaller development staff and a custodian manager.

      It seems like the UK games industry may go the way of the UK film industry, the investment just isn't there unless Hollywood (EA let's say!) decide to pay for it. Let's face it, UK development is wholly reliant on US money. Maybe the independent movement will be it's only saviour as it seems to have been with the UK film industry.
    2. Re:Coming Soon by antime · · Score: 2, Informative

      Psygnosis became SCEE Studio Liverpool several years ago. They were part of Sony even before the name change.

  2. GTA3 London by Singletoned · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Personally, I'd love to see a London version of GTA3 like they did with the original GTA.

    They could probably buy the 3d map of London of the people who did The Getaway. Didn't they spend something 3 years creating a map of London and then wasted it on a terrible game?

  3. Similar story from the BBC by Pete+(big-pete) · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The BBC has a similar story from a year ago...Peter Molyneux suggesting government help for up and coming game studios, similar to the way the film council helps the British movie industry.

    -- Pete.

  4. Re:Never noticed the impact by easychord · · Score: 5, Informative

    Never heard of Elite, X-Com, Populous, Syndicate, Goldeneye or Donkey Kong Country? These games may not fit into your normal buying habit but you may be able to find someone who has played one of them if you look hard enough.

    If you want to look for influence Populous pretty much invented a way of doing strategy that was pretty influential. Elite is a wee bit influential as a trading, space combat and general open ended game.

    A lot of British games are garbage, but you could say that about anything from anywhere.

  5. Ironic by 0x0d0a · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The majority of the open-source games that I've contributed significant quantities of code to have had Europe-based teams, even though I live in the US.

    I just stopped adding code to another open source Linux game put out by a UK developer to read Slashdot.

    As for commercial games, what about LionHead Studios (Black & White, and one of the nicer game development boards out there)?

    One of the most influential games to hit the PC in a long time, Max Payne was developed by Mobius Entertainment, which is UK-based.

    Finally, I agree that it's a shame that the UK-based Bullfrog isn't around any more, but they *were* responsible for one of only about three Windows-based games I ever purchased -- Syndicate.

    I do wish that games used more British voice actors, especially female. Ah, British accents. :-) God, why haven't the Brits taken over the world on the strength of that accent alone?

    Maybe some of it is that (traditionally) computers were rather expensive in the UK. This may have gone away out over the last ten years, but I remember being absolutely appalled at what a number of computer types had to pay for their equipment in the UK. It takes a while to get over a lack of cheap hardware -- I think a lot of people start out game development on a home computer, so you feel the echos for years if people have older hardware. Also, what was with the whole Acorn thing?

    1. Re:Ironic by Wuukie · · Score: 2, Informative

      One of the most influential games to hit the PC in a long time, Max Payne was developed by Mobius Entertainment, which is UK-based.

      Actually the original PC game was developed by Finnish Remedy Entertainment. Mobius has made a GBA port of it.

    2. Re:Ironic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Uh... We did.

      Then we gave it back.

  6. Most Popular Game by Deliveranc3 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Most popular game? Oh you mean CS... um I don't think it's british.

    When I was in Britain the people seemed kind of depressed, I think that might be why they don't make games.

    1. Re:Most Popular Game by easychord · · Score: 2, Funny

      I don't see why anyone would have any reason to be depressed with you around.

    2. Re:Most Popular Game by 0x0d0a · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I've never been to the UK, but I have a couple of friends that head over (admittedly, to London) and seem to have an incredible time partying it up.

      I wonder what musical tastes in the UK are like -- whether they mirror the US or what.

  7. Re:Being half british and half american... by Yorrike · · Score: 3, Insightful
    I am of British decent and having English parents, I too appreciate British comedy (although most of New Zealand, my home country, "gets" it too : ).

    The problem here is that the main markets for games are North America, Japan and Europe, all with cultures that don't find the constant sarcasm of British humour ammusing as we Brits, Aussies, Kiwis and (I'm guessing here), Cannucks, do.

    Niche games, as one drenched in Brit comedy would be, don't usually warrent the huge investments another racer, soccer game, Madden or FPS would, simply because they don't sell as well.

    It's just a shame Rare decided to start sucking really badly, because their games had me in hysterics right the way through. I mean, having a slick robot salesman offer you a dodgy motor in Jet Force Gemini was just fantastic. Banjo Kazooie had similar moments in it.

    The Western development studios, have slipped into a method of providing for the lowest common denominator, which the Python fan is not a member of.

    But all is not lost for we British appreciators. EA have, after all, been making Cricket Games since the 16 bit era. And here's a site dedicated to cricket sims.

    --

    Looks can be deceiving. Or CAN they?

  8. Real world map data in games by @madeus · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Yeah your right about The Getaway, what a terrible waste of time. I could see that gameplay was going to be a stinker from the start though (from the very first interviews it's clear they had no compelling gameplay-focused direction). I've been wondering about that since the games release. Granted it's not the best version ever (the version in MSR/Gotham Racing was far better IMO), but surely the companies who develop these games would want to sell the map data to other developers?

    I mean it's a hell of a lot of work to build these maps and I can see it could be worth it if your going to hang on to them to release in future games (as MSR (origional title on the Dreamcast) has done with Gotham Racing 1 & 2), but with a title like The Getaway, if they don't plan on re-using and/or selling the map data, I think a manager on the project should be asking themselves why they want to go to so much bother to create a large urban environment modeled on a real life city. Surely it would be lot easier to just have an entirely fabricated layout that just had a similar feel to the city it's intended to represent (ala the GTA or Driver series).

    I've actually recognised parts of New York and San Fransico and London from games and used them for navigation in these cities (specifically on the maps I'd played in MSR/Gotham Racing/which although they have been altered slightly to allow greater playbility, are otherwise excellent representations). I also recognised a few of the more well known areas of Toyko in the recent Bill Murray film Lost in Translation, because I'd seen at least two or three of the locations in MSR. I live in London and certainly think these maps are realistic, and it would be great to have access to them in other games genres (Tom Clancy Rainbow 6 style single player games, Counter Stike style multiplayer games, GTA/Driver style games, even old fashioned RPG/point and click adventure games) and of course I'm sure they could be useful for other recreational purposes such as tourism and even local planning authorities might have an interest (the police too very possibly, for practicing crowd control, crime prevention, courter-terrorist scenarios, etc).

    I wouldn't be at all surprised if a company took take up making and maintaining maps of the central areas of large ubran cities with a view to reselling the data for just these purposes, though I think they'd need to have other primary sources of income too, as it's hard to see their being enough money in it in the short or even medium term. I expect that if a corporation doesn't a comminuty effort would though. It would probably be a lot easier for a community effort to provide up to date images for accurate textures too (something that's very easy for anyone with even a cheap digital camera), and to report recent changes, even provide photographs of streets to help mappers in expanding the maps (as obviously existing physical maps alone don't give nearly enough information).

  9. Publishers don't support British games by Operating+Thetan · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Look at Startopia-British humour, social commentary, excellent gameplay, and sweet fuck all in the way of support or marketing from the publisher ( a recurring trend with all of Muckyfoot's games that would lead to them closing down last November)

    How about Giants:Citizen Kabuto? Possibly the funniest game ever made, innovative genre mixing, and a marketing budget of 5 quid.

    I live in Guildford, and 4 years ago it probably had more development houses per capita than any other place in the world. Now half of have gone, despite putting out good products (we'll ignore Blade 2), or disappeared up their own arses into creative limbo, and in the main IMO it's the publishers who can be blamed.

    --
    Worried you might not keep your virginity forever? Try new Linux(TM), guaranteed twice as effective as LARPing
  10. Re:Glad I'm not the only one who thinks this. by Yorrike · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Oh come on. Rare were rich enough, but what counted was they had enough respect to get away with such things, but since Jet Force Gemini, or maybe Banjo Tooie, Rare have sucked.

    Grabbed by the Ghoulies, Donkey Kong 64, Conker's BFD and ESPECIALLY Starfox Adventures (a game that actually made me angry when I played it) were all terrible games. Rare are a hollow shell of their former glory and I doubt very much they'll be producing anything of any note again. They are merely the studio Nintendo had lost confidence in, and Microsoft bought at outrageous price, for nothing more than bragging rights.

    --

    Looks can be deceiving. Or CAN they?

  11. Famous/Influential British games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Elite, Populous, Dungeon Keeper, Tomb Raider, GTA series, Carmageddon, MUD, Donkey Kong Country, Goldeneye, Starfox, Barbarian, Syndicate, X-Com, Shogun/Medieval:Total War, Dizzy series, Monty Mole series, to name a few

    IMO, there are very few US developers (Origin at their prime, Looking Glass Studios) who can compete with the best of Britain in terms of innovation.

    Like in Japan, the most successful US developers, such as Blizzard, are those who take an unoriginal concept and polish it

    In Britain, the most successful developers were those who developed new genres

    BTW, you can keep Derek Smart. We REALLY don't want him back.

  12. The national culture of games by 0x0d0a · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Or rugby. I remember a lot of "extreme football" type games over the years, but not rubgy.

    There have been some good British interactive fiction games. The kind of dry, highbrow "English humor" goes nicely with a text-based format. (Speaking of which, while Spiderweb Software isn't UK-based, does anyone else think that they do a nice job of dark English-style humor? If it weren't for American spellings, I would have thought that the Exile series had British roots.)

    One could say that the flood of LoTR takeoffs ow a certain something to the Brits.

    Finally, I wonder whether I'm just being a bit over-stereotypical. I mean, there is a "British feel", sure. But how often does that come out in games? I mean, say a game is developed in the United States. Is there really an "American feel" to it? What would an "American feel" be? It doesn't seem that games developed in a nation tend to always stick with the stereotypical feel of that nation. If I had to put forward a few guesses, and try to avoid all the cultural mixing and people moving from one country to the other and whatnot, I'd say that:

    * The Japanese seem to do more games with intense personal sacrifice. They seem to use energy weapons (the sort of thing with big fancy beams) in their games more. Soldiers in Japanese games seem to focus on duty, and not on a malfunctioning institution or the individual culture. The Japanese seem to frequently use acronyms (for organizations, military branches, vehicles, weapons, etc). Military uniforms are often more stylish and ornamental than depictions of real uniforms (I have heard that this may derive from the same place anime culture does -- the wildly different hair and clothing colors are to assist viewers in distinguishing between different characters in a nation where many people are of the same race -- a harder task than in the US). I see less topical games, fewer set in present time, and more in either the past or the future.

    * The US seem to have more conventional weapons -- I know that the "US gun culture" is probably a bit exaggerated in attempts to pigeonhole the US, but we go for a broad variety of real weapons in a lot of games, and like thumps and thuds. A lot of US-based games seem to focus on soldiers at an individual level -- perhaps four people -- and point out their individuality, rather than their military roles. Dysfunctional institutions seem to play a greater role. Uniforms are toned down, and more often realistic depictions. I see a lot of games set in the present day.

    * The UK is very, very different when it comes to weapons. Perhaps it's just because fewer folks are marching around with guns than in the US, but weaponry is often much lighter. (While this is a movie, I still experience a minor bit of culture shock every time I see Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels. The deal that was made over the machine gun, the deal made over obtaining two shotguns, and the fact that knives played a role were so different from US movies, where it's a good bet that the mercenaries would have been carrying a rocket launcher and blown something up.) I think that there's a greater tendancy to do dry humor, and I think that most would agree (see my example of Spiderweb Software's Exile series for an example of a non-UK game series that has similar style). It may be me just me trying too hard to find differences, but I'd say that UK games have a greater tendancy to include more subtle cultural styles in factions in their games. I think that there are fewer games relying on absolutely split-second twitch elements, and somewhat more puzzle-like elements. The military seems to stay more out of British games.

    Now, I'm sure to draw criticism. Yes, I'm trying to extrapolate from an extremely small sample set, but these are admittedly based on feeling and opinion rather than a full-blown study. Furthermnore, there are individual counterexamples to all of these. Bungie, Shiny Entertainment, and Spiderweb Software both put out games that I'd consid

    1. Re:The national culture of games by orthogonal · · Score: 4, Funny
      Finally, I wonder whether I'm just being a bit over-stereotypical. I mean, there is a "British feel", sure. But how often does that come out in games

      Yes, the fact that Grand Theft auto is British, but that's considered a dirty little secret to be suppressed, is telling.

      British gaming needs to take inspiration from its love of its own culture, and not, as the Beatles sung, "hide that love away".

      I suggest the following games:
      • Stiff Upper Lip the game of not showing emotion, set in the dehumanizing and homoerotic milieu of the British Public school;
      • Sounds Like Class in which the gamer determines the birthplace, social class, and future prospects of a series of avatars, based solely on their accents;
      • Fun with Football the irreverent, off-the-field game of being the most violent soccer hooligan you can be;
      • MotherF****r of Parliaments, in which the player competes to come up with the most inventive insults in a Parliamentary session, without going so far as to call down the wrath of the Speaker of the House;
      • Partition!, a strategy game in which the end of Empire gives the player, "Lord Mountbatten" the opportunity to create two countries and 60 years of enmity between them;
      • and Bad-Teeth!, the game of identifying British ex-pats all over the world.
    2. Re:The national culture of games by metroid+composite · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I mean, say a game is developed in the United States. Is there really an "American feel" to it? What would an "American feel" be?

      Not Japanese-feel is what I'd associate with it.

      RPGs - more based off of D&D and role playing than a prescripted story
      More realistic instead of anime feel
      Far more likely to be a first person shooter or racing game
      Far less likely to be a dance game, dating sim, or 2D Fighter
      Real-time strategy is, as far as I know, almost exclusively American/European. The Japanese games tend to be turn-based.
      World War 2 sims
      Anything with WWE in the title

      Now, telling appart Brittish games, American games, and European games is something I've never been good at; it doesn't help, mind you, that my repretoire of British/American games is fairly thin (the majority of games coming from Rare, Maxis, Blizzard, and Sierra) and that I can't remember any game I've played from Continental Europe.

  13. The Galapagos of game developers by 0x0d0a · · Score: 4, Insightful

    IMO, there are very few US developers (Origin at their prime, Looking Glass Studios) who can compete with the best of Britain in terms of innovation.

    I really wonder. Is it because the British just happen to come up with a lot of original ideas? While it's not impossible, I'm a little dubious. I wonder if perhaps it's because you have a lot of developers that are physically isolated from the mass of US and Japanese developers, and have a chance to go their own ways.

    Perhaps the real answer to game diversity is to find a couple of islands, dump game developers on them without access to the outside world for a couple of years, and see what new things spring up. :-)

    Knowledge sharing is good, as it allows building upon past mistakes and god ideas. However, I claim that what is "apparently better" may not always actually be better. Someone may have to make an apparently non-ideal mental path to arrive at a better final solution. The problem is that if there are lots of ideas floating around that are "apparently better" and lead someone away from finding alternate, potentially better solutions.

    Every time I see a game developer say "Has $FANCY_WELL_SELLING_GAME-style $FEATURE" on a new game's featurelist, I've seen a developer not run out and come up with a potentially better solution.

    Oh, well. Honestly, people complain about the lack of innovation in games, but I can't help but think that things are better now than in the console days of the NES/SNES. Man, there were enough cloned platform games out there to choke a horse...

    1. Re:The Galapagos of game developers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think one of the main causes is a difference in corporate ideas. There are dev studios where less than half the staff have a degree, a situation that would be unheard of in America

      Also, we don't really have the whole geek/jock thing in schools, which leads to a completely different geek culture.

      I'd also place Thatcherism and it's social legacy as an important influence

    2. Re:The Galapagos of game developers by Jon+Peterson · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Err yes,

      The culture of the early / mid 80's was very much individual focussed. This made it feel possible for a lone teenager to actually write produce sell and get rich from a game. And they did - lots of 8-bit platform games in the UK were complete 1 man efforts. The platform makers (commodire, BBC, Spectrum) didn't have a strangle hold over the software market, and the Sony's and Nintendos weren't in the picture.

      Meanwhile in the US it took whole companies to produce games for the NES and other console systems that dominated the games market.

      This resulted in a large pool of entrepreneurial UK game talent, and those individuals in the 80's went to to found studios in the 90s but still championing the individuality and freedom that had done them so well in the 80s.

      --
      ----- .sig: file not found
    3. Re:The Galapagos of game developers by JonnyCalcutta · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I wonder if perhaps it's because you have a lot of developers that are physically isolated from the mass of US and Japanese developers, and have a chance to go their own ways

      I'm sorry, but in the UK people are actually aware that a whole world exists outside their borders.
      In fact taking your suggestion and reversing it creates a more likely suggestion - that its the UK's openness to the rest of the world that creates a melting pot of original ideas. Whereas the US and Japan, in their competition to determine who can be more isolationist, tend to follow the same old well worn pathways.

  14. Re:Never noticed the impact by nickos · · Score: 2

    I guess if you'd had an Amiga or Atari ST during the late eighties/early nineties you might think a little differently. The majority of games for those platforms was European (probably because these machines didn't sell well in the US market).

    Back then of course you could still write a game yourself and take it to a publisher. Nowadays it's all teams of 50+ people, and noone will risk investing in a quirky idea anymore. It's a shame really.