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Echostar/Dish Network Pulls Viacom Channels
RedWolves2 writes "As was mentioned yesterday, Viacom was trying to warn Dish Network customers over the weekend that its channels were going to be pulled from their service. Well today those channels were finally pulled. 'EchoStar Communications Corp. on Tuesday pulled from service 16 of Viacom's local CBS stations and 10 of its national channels after the companies failed to agree on contract terms and prices.' Echostar will provide a $1 monthly credit to customers who lose programming while the channels are unavailable. Sorry but $1 a month is not exactly a fair trade off. DirecTV sounds like a great choice."
If they watch TV, they do. Every "dead" channel has a message up pointing to the Dish Info channel, which is continuously running a ~2 minute explanation by Charlie himself of what's going on.
Dav2.718
SciFi and History are unaffected. Missing channels are ...
MTV, MTV2, MTV-Espanol, VH1, VH1 Classic (*sob*), BET, Nick, Noggin, NickGAS & Comedy Central.
They also have removed a few of the local CBS affiliates, likely the corporate owned outlets.
I watch VH1 Classic and Comedy Central occasionally, but the rest of the missing channels I can definitely live without anyway.
Interestingly other Viacom channels are still there, TV Land is surprising considering it is basically an offshoot of Nick@Nite anyway.
I personally will be sending an email expressing my feelings that even though I am dissappointed to lose Comedy Central for an undetermined amount of time, I stand by Dish Network in their stance against Viacom.
-IOVAR Web Dev Platform
Both sides are throwing out complaint websites. I'd really like to see Dish succeed at this - the local cable company just told us it was raising rates $3/mo. Good to see Dish is standing up for the extortion Viacom is doing.
Dish has two links to complain: Complain to CBS here with a web form
E-mail them directly here
Wonder if we could slashdot CBS's web form? (grin)
Disclaimer: I work for Dish Network
Second Disclaimer: I really don't have any loyalty to the company.
The channels you'll be missing are basicly Nick, Commedy Central, BET, VH1, MTV(1 & 2), Nick GAS, and a few others of little consequence.
DirecTV and Dish are functionaly interchangable as far as service, channels (at least normaly), and price are concerned (Dish is only significanly cheeper at its lowest tier).
Equipment wise it's a tough call. Personaly, I prefer Dish's DVR522. The reason is that it is a PVR/DVR unit available through the Digital Home Advantage plan with dual tuner capability. Dual Tuner DVRs are hard to find in the satelite industry. A recent software upgrade allows you to actualy set up a recording on the TV2 location from the TV1 location, thereby effectively making this a poor mans substitute for the 721 recevier.
If you don't qualify for DHA though, it's more or less a draw. Your choice, but I'd look into the equipment etc that you're installing to make that call.
Killfile(TGK)
No trees were killed in the creation of this post. However, many electrons were inconvenienced.
I don't think it's so much about "supporting unfair business practices." Some people just want to watch things on those channels. Given, MTV and such are pretty much wasted space... but if you've ever been around kids recently, you might know that Nickelodeon is still big with the young ones.
I have a little brother and sister (3 and 7 yrs old) and for whatever reason, the can't get enough of the stuff on there...
And I can't imagine what Survivor fans are going to do... (another thing I'm not a fan of). But some people just want to see watch that programming, no matter who owns it or usually, what they're doing for business practices. DirecTV sounds like a great choice now for some people because it's still offering those stations...
this isn't insightful, it's trollish. I don't know what everyone else is paying, but I assure you 1/70th of my bill in refund in exchange for taking 10% of my channels is not in anyway fair. Beyond that, most of us have contracts with them that will not let us drop and go to another service without paying an extra cancellation fee. And before you ask, yes, they have clauses that say they can change the programming, but so does every other carrier. Oh, and yes they did just settle a class action law suit on those cancellation fees last may, apparantly they didn't learn their lesson the first time.
I can count to 1023 on my hands. Ask me about #132.
I thought it was Disney/ABC and Time Warner cable.
Stupid sexy Flanders.
"I was under the impression Dish had better technology and lower prices than DirectTV!?"
Sort of. Dish has cheaper low-end packages (e.g. Dish has a $29.99 package with 60 channels and locals) but after you get to the mid-range packages DirecTV gets more competitive (about $2 more expensive usually).
Dish originally had the capacity to deliver more channels, but thanks to the launch of the 4S and 7S satellites DirecTV now has the lead. This may change with the launch of Dish's next satellite.
I submitted this story earlier today. Funny it didn't get picked up then. I also penned a note to the non-managing directors of Viacom.
To the Directors;
I want to convey my sincere regret over the fact that Viacom has decided that punishing the customers of EchoStar in their dispute with the satellite provider is 'good business'. The only solution Viacom has offered to the EchoStar customer base in response to this debacle is "Current EchoStar/DISH Network subscribers who would like to continue receiving BET, CBS, Comedy Central, MTV, Nickelodeon, Nick at Nite, VH1, and all our other channels can easily switch to one of these reputable operators. We urge them to do so." This offhand dismissal of the reality of our collective situation indicates to me that Viacom is completely out of touch with the audience it serves. Many of EchoStar's customers have significant investment in equipment and annual contracts and cannot afford to quickly switch providers as your press release suggests.
By punishing your *indirect* customers, the audience of your shows, you are also punishing your other customers, your advertisers. By refusing to negotiate in good faith with EchoStar, and by denying temporary access to your content during negotiations, your advertisers are losing PAID access to millions of customers of the products and services advertised on your content stream. If you have no regard for the audience of your shows, perhaps you should take the pulse of your advertisers to see how they feel about the current conflict.
I, for one, have taken the time to notify all of the advertisers who have paid *you* for access to *me* through your content stream. I have indicated that the reason I am not making a purchasing decision regarding their products and services is due to *your* intransigence. They are losing thousands of dollars in disposable income a year due to *your* inability to negotiate with EchoStar.
I blame you, not EchoStar, for this impasse. I have notified your advertisers that I will boycott all of their products and services until this issue is resolved. I will also watch carefully all future Viacom acquistions and voice my opinion regarding each proposal to the appropriate regulatory authority (i.e., FCC, SEC, USDOJ). This situation has certainly cast any future consolidation of the entertainment industry in a poor light.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
What is actually hapening here is that Viacom is saying to Dish Network something like "We're not going to let you have the CBS stations and MTV and VH1 and the others you WANT unless you take the other 10 stations we offer which noone wants".
I bet Dish would love to be able to offer packages where you can pick and choose, but they are (in some cases) prevented from doing this by the Viacom's of the world.
As for DirecTV's vs. Dish, all I know are these few things:
Albuquerque PC
you don't want Voom. First of all, it's not all HDTV, only their "exclusive" channels are in HDTV, which includes the "fashion channel", the "moov" channel (which shows nothing but visualizations to music you've never heard of), and "monsters" (old b-movies in HD).
The 30-some channels they also offer are just the regular old channels you get with any other satellite service.
The box costs 900 dollars to buy.
Plus, as of april, they're losing about 6 of their sports channels due to licensing agreements.
Stick with antenna.
hookers and grits.
DIRECTV was already a great choice
Remember Smartcard Reader/Writers?
DirectTV is the company that's been extorting thousands of dollars from everybody who ever bought one - regardless of whether they ever used them, or intended to use them, to rip off DirecTV's signals.
When did we stop boycotting people who use extortionist threats to block techies from getting access to technological devices?
Are we all going to start doing business with SCO while we're at it?
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Echostar will provide a $1 monthly credit to customers who lose programming while the channels are unavailable. Sorry but $1 a month is not exactly a fair trade off.
d ex.shtml
Guess what? Echostar doesn't own you anything. You should be glad they are giving you that discount, and you'd know it if you actually read the agreement they provide service under. Here's the related section of the agreement:
"G. Changes in Services offered. DISH Network reserves the right to change the Services that we offer, and our prices or fees related to such Services at any time. If the change affects you, we will provide you notice of the change and its effective date. The notice may be provided on your billing statement or by other communication permitted under Section 9B. In the event of a change in the contents of any programming, programming packages or other Services, you understand and agree that we have no obligation to replace or supplement the programming, programming packages or other Services previously offered that have been deleted, rearranged or otherwise changed. You further understand and agree you will not be entitled to any refund because of a change in the contents of any programming, programming packages, or other Services previously offered."
From http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/aboutus/RCA/in
DirecTV sounds like a great choice.
Make sure you learn to read their agreement when you sign up. Don't cry about about it after the fact.
this is my sig
Viacom only loses the advertising that they can pipe to EchoStar customers, a pretty small portion of their total advertising.
Actually, Echostar/DishNetwork hold about 8-9% of 'cable' television subscribers in the US. 8% spread across 5 or 6 networks seems like an awful lot to lose compared to Dish losing a few customers who can't live without South Park reruns.
Viacom Press Briefing on EchoStar Pulling our Networks
March 9, 2004
Remarks by Mark Rosenthal, President and COO, MTV Networks:
For the past few months, as this situation with EchoStar has unfolded, we've been trying to take the high road, speaking just to the larger issues and trying to ignore the gross distortions and inaccuracies that Charlie Ergen and EchoStar have been flinging around. There comes a point, however, where you have to respond, if only to set the record straight. And that's why we're here today - and we appreciate your taking the time to join us.
As we said in our statement last night, we are disturbed and disappointed by EchoStar's decision to pull the plug on our channels. This is channel yanking by a distributor on an unprecedented scale. This is not something we wanted to happen or would ever want to happen. We are broadcasters and programmers, and the most important relationship we have is with our viewers. The idea that something or someone would disrupt that relationship -- particularly in an effort to extort a better deal for themselves -- is, to us, really reprehensible. And, additionally, as consumer oriented people, it really bothers us to see a company treat its customers with such disregard.
EchoStar has been trying to paint itself as the victim in this situation. To hear them tell it, they were forced to pull the plug on our networks to protect their subscribers from the "exorbitant" rate increases and unfair carriage requirements we were trying to "foist" on them.
In a word, that's ludicrous.
Here are the facts:
First of all, EchoStar is hardly some small mom-and-pop operation that is being pushed around. It has more than 9 million subscribers -- 10% of all multichannel homes and 43% of all satellite households. It is the fourth largest distributor in the U.S. and as a result it has enormous negotiating power.
Faced with the clout that comes with having that massive distribution, we've been doing everything humanly possible we can -- for months now -- to finalize a deal with them. As I said before, the last thing we ever want to do is wind up in a situation where our viewers can't get the channels and shows they love. So in our negotiations with EchoStar, we were extremely flexible and offered substantial compromises.
Now I hope you will keep in mind that every cable and satellite operator negotiates these sorts of agreements, and we have been able to establish and maintain solid business partnerships with virtually all of them. The sole exception is EchoStar/DISH Network.
Along these lines, I would also point out that over the years there have been thousands of successful marketplace negotiations between broadcasters and cable and satellite distributors involving the packaging of retransmission consent rights with cable carriage. In all those cases, only one company ever had a problem with it. That's right -- it was EchoStar, which complained to the FCC about the same "packaging" practices it challenged in its recent lawsuit against Viacom.
As it happens, the FCC decisively rejected EchoStar's complaint, pointing out that Congress established a detailed regulatory scheme that permits broadcasters to negotiate retransmission consent and cable carriage together. For the same reason, the Federal district court judge who is hearing EchoStar's case against Viacom recently denied EchoStar's motion for a preliminary injunction and gave us permission to deauthorize (which we did not do) EchoStar's carriage of CBS if we were unable to work things out.
It's also worth noting that EchoStar has a history of bringing frivolous lawsuits and has been sanctioned or admonished by federal judges several times, including in a litigation with CBS when they were found by a Federal judge to have engaged in "clearly willful" copyright violations. Just this week, a federal judge sanctioned EchoStar in yet another an antitrust case they brought.
Anyway, we could not have worked harder to
Viacom just won't go for that. Their terms are their terms and they are NOT flexible at all with them. The signal providers must put all of Viacom's big-name channels in their lowest tier of pay-channel service, and pay the rates Viacom wants to charge per subscriber for them.
The distributors are not being given a line item veto. They must accept the entire package, or get none of it. Right now, Echostar's calling that bluff and buying none of it.
It's a standoff all right... the only questions are how long this will go on before somebody blinks, and which side will it be?
"Dual Tuner DVRs are hard to find in the satelite industry."
Huh? I'm pretty sure all the DirecTv Tivos are dual tuner -- i know mine is.
A flat $5/month covers TiVo service for every DirecTV DVR in the house. If you have 30 DirecTV DVRs, the fee for TiVo service is still $5/month, or if you get Total Choice Premier, it's waived. You can also upgrade the DirecTV DVR's hard drive to 256GB very easily with some cheap hard drives from ebay and a disk image(even one from a standalone).
Albuquerque PC
Comedy Central used to operate in a very funny place in corperate America. It all came from the history of the place.
See, in the early 90's, at about the same time, Viacom's MTV Networks created a channel called Ha! and Time Warner's HBO Networks created a channel called The Comedy Channel. The stations were more or less redundant to each other, and neither could get any traction at getting onto cable systems since digital cable hadn't come out yet and space was tight. The system owners were mostly waiting for one of the two to fold. As a result, the two stations merged into what became Comedy Central which was owned by an entity called Comedy Partners Inc. that was half owned by Time Warner and half owned by Viacom.
So, for much of the station's glory days, they had the resources of being owned by a big company, but when they screwed up it wasn't exactly clear which set of executives were suposed to yell at them. They could bash Viacom and get AOL/Time Warner to stand up for them, they could bash AOL and get Viacom to stand up for them. They basically had free domain to make fun of anything.
But, that changed last year when Time Warner who needed the cash sold their 50% interest to Viacom. Comedy Central got folded into the Viacom family, and that means they're now part of MTV Networks and get pulled into these silly megacompany things that they used to not have to be involved in... too bad.
Watching it for any length of time gives me a headache, either from eyestrain or that throbbing sensation of wanting to strangle those butchers. (I don't know if they do that to all their shows, but I'm not likely to find out.)
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Call into one of their call centers 1-800-333-DISH and complain to the agent that you speak to. When they tell you about the $1 off of your bill, demand to speak to a supervisor.
Supervisors have a fair bit of authority. If you make it clear that there is some program on one of those channels that you NEED to watch if you are going to keep their service, they will be more than willing to write more money off of your account.
1 month of everything for free is not out of the question if you play it right and you get the right supervisor at the right time. Hold out, never accept their first offer and you'll go far.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
The "Buyer's Club" in my store? The question is like asking "What are legitimate uses for magnetic stripe cards?"
Smart Card Uses
KFG
*ALL* satellite DVRs are dual-tuner (because their data stream comes in already encoded, all they have to do is record two files at once to the hard-drive; stand-alone units are single tuner because they would need a separate MPEG compression chip to record two streams). You are either hideously misinformed, excessively corporate-loyalty-blinded, or a troll.
is competition good, or is duplication of effort bad?
Jesus christ people. This has been debunked so many times it's not even funny. Sing along with me: You will never have ala carte cable because you would not want to pay for it.
See, just because you pay, say, $35 per month for 70 channels does NOT mean each channel costs $.50. The company receives cable channels over a satelite feed and there's not really too much rhyme or reason as to which channels come down on which satelite. So really, to get ANY channels at all, they'd have to charge you a base cost for each satelite your channels were carried on. After that base cost, the cost for them to provide you with an additional channel is close to nil...basically, the cost of multiplexing hardware, the way content licenses are currently issued.
But the additional overhead of maintaining a custom channel delivery database, customer service training and so forth is not worth it. It's just easier to give you the whole block of programming and you can watch what you want. It actually costs them LESS to do it this way, which means it costs YOU less to do it this way.
In short: you're asking them to do a lot more work. That means it'll be more money. Ala Carte doesn't make sense for the business, so it won't happen...at least not until all programming is available on demand (something satelite will never be able to offer). On Demand makes sense for the business, because it sells digital boxes, which in turn sells PPV, etc...
Hey freaks: now you're ju
Jon Stewart has absolutely no say in what commercials are shown, those are all picked by Viacom and the local markets. As for them not mentioning it on the show, yeah, Viacom probably told them not to bring it up. But hey, everyone's got a boss right? I am sure Jon has a mortgage and a family to support just like the rest of us. Don't be so hard on Jon, he really has nothing to do with this.
>This may change with the launch of Dish's next satellite.
Dish has always had the upper hand on capacity. Here's the list of DirecTV satellites (via lyngsat):
101 - DirecTV 1R/2/4S
110 - DirecTV 6
119 - DirecTV 5
I don't know where DirecTV 7S is, it isn't listed.
And DishNetwork run satellites:
61.5 - EchoStar 3
105 - AMC 2
110 - EchoStar 6/8
119 - EchoStar 7
121 - EchoStar 9
148 - EchoStar 1/2
151 - EchoStar 4
That's a *LOT* of broadcast power. And with the Turbocoding (soon to be 8PSK) used on 105/121, that's twice the bang for the buck. Not to mention the option of 7/8 FEC over straight 5/6 QPSK FEC (all that DirecTV supports), they have much more to play with. They can squeeze a bit out of the failing transponders by setting the FEC to 1/2.
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
Err.. no .. dual LNBs, dual tuners, two streams of digital data from which you can such the relevant program.
There are two polarizations, left and right. A different set of channels are sent on each polarization. To be sure that you can decode any two channels and dump them to disk, you need to be able to receive both RF signals at the same time
Evil people are out to get you.
You sir, have obviously never heard of
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Any of these newsgroups will provide you with free high quality porn... downloadable, viewable on your computer or television... at resolutions much better than 320x240.
yep, you're right. It does suck to be a dish network subscriber. I know, I am one. I called them today to cancel my service after my 4 year old asked for cartoons and Nick wasn't on. They said sorry, you signed a contract and you can cancel, but it will cost you $240 dollars. I said no, you reduced my service. They said no, the contract says we can change your service, so we won't waive the cancellation fee. That lackeys supervisor said the same thing. Then they transferred me to the big guys at corporate in colorado. I spoke with Clint. He said that he had the power to waive my cancellation fee, but he won't. They all told me that if Viacom had they're way, my bill would have gone up 40%. That is a bald faced lie! The 5 stations that I don't get anymore would not have raised my rate by $16? If you read the Viacom press release, it says that the amount was only .06 cents or so. Even if that was per channel, it would have been .30 cents, not $16. I have always stayed with Dish because of the good product they provide, not the mean and nasty customer service they have always provided. I will get out as soon as possible.
Check out the whois on the domain "ilostmyfavoritechannels.com". It was registered by Viacom back in January! The page contains anti-Echostar remarks and links to go sign up for the competition. Check it out for yourself. WTF is up with that?
Was Viacom planning ahead of time on Dish not giving in to their demands, so they could try to "teach them a lesson" by pulling the channels? What's with all the anti-Dish stuff aired by Viacom on their stations? Viacom keeps pointing the finger at Dish, basically stating that the channels were "removed."
Maybe Viacom was setting out to cause harm to Echostar, who has a history of refusing to bend over and take it when it comes to price increase demands. Or maybe I'm being a little on the conspiracy theory side of things. But I wouldn't put such a thing past them. Everything they're doing (the banners, the anti-Dish stuff, etc.) only keeps pointing the finger at them and away from Echostar.
In case it wants to change, here's the whois for the domain:
Registrant:
MTVN Online Partner 1 LLC (SMQELJVTUD)
1515 Broadway
8th Floor
Attn Pier Borra
New York, NY 10036-5794
US
Domain Name: ILOSTMYFAVORITECHANNELS.COM
Administrative Contact:
MTVi-Admin Contact (35876815O) mtvi-admin@mtvigroup.com
MTVi-Admin Contact
MTVi Group
1515 Broadway
New York, NY 10036-5794
US
+1 212 846-3367 fax: +1 212-654-9068
Technical Contact:
Amirian, Brian (36553847P) amirianb@mtvi.com
1515 Broadway
New York, NY 10036
US
212 846 3223
Record expires on 16-Jan-2006.
Record created on 16-Jan-2004.
Database last updated on 10-Mar-2004 02:46:42 EST.
this is my sig
Do you think the Dish CEO is Mahatma Fucking Ghandi? of course not.
No, but he is actually willing to talk to the customers of his company. About once a month, there is an hour long show on channel 101 where he talks about the state of things, will explain any rate increases, and will also take caller questions. I do choose to vote with my wallet, and Dish will always have my entertainment money.
I was a bit upset when I tried to sign up for Dish again after being in a situation where I shared it with a roomate. I shot an e-mail off to the CEO, and VP accounts. I, in 1 hour, had an e-mail response from the VP, and soon there after a phone call too. In the end, I not only got to sign back up, but also provided valuable feedback right to the VP about a program they rolled out to resubscribers.
It actually premieres next Wednesday, March 17th. The Daily Show and Chapelle's Show are the main losses right now.
The way I see it is this.
The one dollar credit is a way to cover all the packages. The low package (24.99) would be more than a dollar, and the high end one (54.00) would be less than a dollar. The package I have (29.99/month is basic 60 + locals) works out to about 3 a month I should get. I am not in an area that has CBS cut out.
Dish has said that they will not raise rates till 2005. Now I am not saying that I know all the details, and I highly doubt that anyone on the boards does know all the details, but from what I have seen, from both sides, is that Viacom wants more money, and wants to stick in more channels. Dish/E* won't do it. According to Dish/E* it would make them raise rates to get the channels.
While there really isn't any of the channels that are blacked out to me that I watch, I am with Dish on this one. I do think that the credit should be more proportional to what you have gotten, but atleast it is a good effort to give something.
I'll take an S2 over an S1 any day of the week! Head over to Dealdatabase.com and read a clue. I can do extraction via a 100meg USB NIC just as easily now as I could with my Replay. You do NOT have to pull the drive from a DIRECTIVO to do extraction, I get it over the network easily! The "scramble" crap that DIRECT insisted on is easily defeated using one of three different (software) methods detailed on dealdatabse.com. In fact Sleeper's ISO does it ALL for you step by step and even shows you the commandlines it runs before making each step (backup, restore, Monte, and hacks). Backup and hacking of a DIRECTIVO S2 is DIRT simple!
I'd LOVE to hear what exactly an S1 can do that an S2 cannot. I have console access, a WEB server running, FTP, Telnet, 2x 120Gigs worth of space, an off the shelf USB NIC, I could run wireless sans WEP if I wanted, and I get my guide updates via satellite. Oh, and my MPEG compression is better since DIRECTIVO don't recompress. Te video extracted from my DIRECTIVO is more compliant than my Replay box's video ever was too...
Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
All Dish customers please try this one out. Last night they had the LOTR Fellowship marathon. Tonight is Monsters inc. This channel is being provided in lieu of all Viacom channel.
Good information! However functionality wise the DISH DVRs are nowhere near as feature complete IMO. Season Pass for one thing is VERY nice on TIVO. The abiloity to do video extraction without removing the HD is also VERY nice and can be easily done on a DIRECTIVO. The 5series DISH DVRs have had some serious bugs, the 721 supposedly cannot deconflict recordings between it's two tuners - this must be done manually by the user. The 921 (that right?) is hard as heck to get, costs a grand, and has it's Firewire ports disabled currently. DIRECT S2s have disabled USB2 ports too but they're easily enabled. DISH has higher capacity machines out of the box, DIRECT is DIRT simple to upgrade and has more mature software. I've "rebooted" my DIRECTIVO once in 3 months, some 5 series owners were reporting that they rebooted DAILY to retain functionality. DISH has terrific P0RN offerings, DIRECT has sports - I'd prefer P0RN personally. :-)
After reading the horror stories on the 5 series DVRs, seeing the reports the 721 couldn't deconflict it's tuners, and nearly fainting at the $1K pricetag of the 921 I spent $99 and went DIRECT. Yeah, as a new DISH subscriber they offer free DVRs but as a current DISH user I'd have gotten boned for new hardware or sold older hardware that was on it's way out (again). I NEVER had a problem with DISH service but it burned me I couldn't get a DVR that allowed extraction or the features I desired so I switched. I'd consider going back if they fixed those problems and I applaude their stand against VIACOM. Just don't ask me to weep at them being forced to take package deals on channels - we ALL suffer that from the various SAT and cable companies.
Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org