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Echostar/Dish Network Pulls Viacom Channels
RedWolves2 writes "As was mentioned yesterday, Viacom was trying to warn Dish Network customers over the weekend that its channels were going to be pulled from their service. Well today those channels were finally pulled. 'EchoStar Communications Corp. on Tuesday pulled from service 16 of Viacom's local CBS stations and 10 of its national channels after the companies failed to agree on contract terms and prices.' Echostar will provide a $1 monthly credit to customers who lose programming while the channels are unavailable. Sorry but $1 a month is not exactly a fair trade off. DirecTV sounds like a great choice."
I am actually on the Dish networks side on this one; what Viacom is trying to with their crappy channel bundling is a joke. That said however, CBS has CSI and Survivor, for most people $1/month is nowhere near good enough.
"The crows seemed to be calling his name, thought Caw."
How about reducing all the packages back to where they were last year, and charging the people who actually WANT Viacom's crap a couple bucks a month? I think I can survive without Racist Entertainment TV & No-Music TV.
Yeah, okay, no South Park is gonna hurt, but that's what the net is for.
I have to give Charlie credit for standing up to viacom.
Hell. They oughta charge an extra $5 monthly for filtering MTV and Nickelodeon out of your home. I'd pay it.
I was under the impression Dish had better technology and lower prices than DirectTV!?
Why are people suggesting to simply go to DirectTV when this is not the issue at hand. Isin't that extremely short sighted.
If it works against Dish, you don't think DirecTV would be next?
I have Charter Cable, and viacom is running ads stating the obivous, that EchoStar/Dish Network is not meeting demands, and airing it on all providers.
This whole situation does not affect me, why bother me?
DirecTV doesn't have the same hardcore porn offerings though. Dish lets you order up porn like you would HBO or ShowTime. DirecTV makes you go with Playboy (not porn) or buy AlaCarte (big bucks.)
DirecTV sounds like a great choice
Sure, if you want to support Viacom's unfair business practices. If they didn't force bundles on the networks, none of this would be going down. Viacom's 'bundling' is certainly no more ethical than Microsoft's 'bundling' that we all hear so much about...
Maybe partying will help...
...that this would be the beginning of a ala carte(sp) cable service. It didn't happen when Disney and Comcast (AT&T) had their fight, but maybe Echostar can pull it off against Viacom.
Of course, the realist in me knows that my cable bill will go up a few dollars regardless. (Yes, I have cable, but I'm sure Comcast will find a way to increase my bill too.)
They no longer get the Sci-Fi or History channel, or even Comedy Central. Is there mass suicide watch?
One of the channels being pulled is Comedy Central, I just canceled my Dish Membership today because of that.
You think the Cable Company would be falling over themselves to get me back, but they're making me wait 5 days to get Cable!!!
... and in the DRM, bind them.
people talk about crap channels on TV, but that's the point. the reason you can't just pick the channels you want, and skip the crap is because companies like viacom make you take the good with the bad.
of all the viacom channels they offer, the one i want is comedy central. that's it. but i still have to get mtv, nickelodian (sp?), and all their other crap. I DON'T WANT IT.
but i have to get it whether i want it or not, because that's the only way viacomm will sell it.
remind anyone of a certain software companies business practices? you want Windows? you're getting IE and WMP bundled together.
good for dish network sticking standing up to them. hell, i'll probably sign up tomorrow in support of the stance they're taking.
DirecTV sounds like a great choice /. readers as a whole blasting EV1servers for caving in to Evil Company X's immoral and potentially illegal ultimatums? Yet the articles posted on THIS subject all carry an editorial spin of abandonment when a DN stands up against Evil Company Y's extortionist tactics? WTF?
Aren't
I am a DirecTV subscriber, but I've really got to admire Dish' handling of this. Granted, $1/mo. doesn't seem sufficient.
One gripe I have with DirecTV isn't really DirecTV's fault, as evidenced by this thing with EchoStar: why do I have to sit down every couple of months to erase all of the CRAP from "Channels I Receive" list (freestanding TiVo), and pay $50/mo. for the 10 channels I regularly watch?
Packaging isn't just DirecTV/Dish' fault, but the fault of the conglomerates' anti-competitive muscle flexing. You know, if I had to pay $2.00 per month for that channels I do watch (plus $10 for HBO), I'd still be at $50/mo., but I'd be much, much happier about it because I'd know (or at least feel) that I was in control of it.
--Jim (me)
So I'm of a mind to send a message to Viacom: keep your content, I won't miss it. THPHHHHHHHHT! (with apologies to Bill the Cat). I'm much more interested in channels like SciFi, BBC America, IFC, and those wacky independent channels like Worldlink TV.
-- This
Why would anybody on Slashdot be concerned about that?
Oh, wait...
Show me on the doll where his noodly appendage touched you.
oh, wait.
sulli
RTFJ.
Sorry but $1 a month is not exactly a fair trade off. DirecTV sounds like a great choice.
/. for switching to a satellite company that has blanket prosecuted people that buy smart card readers (Because everyone that buys one must be doing something illegal!)
First of all, I'm majorly impressed that dish is not bowing to Viacom's demands, as most cable companies AND direct tv have always in the past. I also don't know how anyone could make a case on
Secondly, to everyone but the highest teer (who already recieve every channel), they've added multiple channels until this battle is over. The added networks include FUSE (formerly Much Music) and several additional Disney Networks (to replace Nick.)
I think Dish has handled this issue the best they could, and I think they're closing stock price (Up) reflects what people think of them vs Viacom (who incidentally closed down on the stocks.)
But Viacom won't allow this. Because who would actually pay extra for the garbage channels? If any satellite or cable operator were to threaten to seperate the channels into their own package or to charge individually for them, Viacom would then pull the plug on all of their channels. No company could survive with no Viacom channels, so they give in and pay a huge amount of money for all of them. Disney tried the same thing with Cox Cable. Funny, these types of sales tactics used to be called racketeering and were actually illegal. Imagine if GM had 95% of the American auto market and built their cars to only run on GM brand gasoline?
You are correct, the DIRECTiVo is lacking a few of the features of Series 2 TiVos, and Series 2 TiVos are not as hackable as Series 1.
However, the fundamental purpose of a DVR is to record and playback programs, and the rest is all gravy. The vast majority of people will find that DIRECTV's DVR is far and away the best because they don't need or don't care about those other features.
I agree that it would be great if DIRECTiVo's could do all that Series 1/Series 2 standalones can do, and if all of our platforms were more open to video extraction. But the core competency of TiVo standalones and especially DIRECTV's TiVo-based DVR is vastly superior to all others, and when it comes down to it, that is what matters the most to most people.
I feel the need to reiterate that although I work for TiVo, my opinions are entirely my own.
I personally will be sending an email expressing my feelings that even though I am dissappointed to lose Comedy Central for an undetermined amount of time, I stand by Dish Network in their stance against Viacom.
-IOVAR Web Dev Platform
Disclaimer: I work for Dish Network
Second Disclaimer: I really don't have any loyalty to the company.
The channels you'll be missing are basicly Nick, Commedy Central, BET, VH1, MTV(1 & 2), Nick GAS, and a few others of little consequence.
DirecTV and Dish are functionaly interchangable as far as service, channels (at least normaly), and price are concerned (Dish is only significanly cheeper at its lowest tier).
Equipment wise it's a tough call. Personaly, I prefer Dish's DVR522. The reason is that it is a PVR/DVR unit available through the Digital Home Advantage plan with dual tuner capability. Dual Tuner DVRs are hard to find in the satelite industry. A recent software upgrade allows you to actualy set up a recording on the TV2 location from the TV1 location, thereby effectively making this a poor mans substitute for the 721 recevier.
If you don't qualify for DHA though, it's more or less a draw. Your choice, but I'd look into the equipment etc that you're installing to make that call.
Killfile(TGK)
No trees were killed in the creation of this post. However, many electrons were inconvenienced.
dude, you're on the internet. why on earth are you paying for porn?
london is drowning and i live by river
To switch to a different carrier because of this is to punish Dish for standing up to the big content provider. By switching carriers you would be helping Viacom manipulate the industry by forcing the carriers to add programming that they don't want simply to allow them to maintain the rights to other stations. In my opinion this is extortion, and I applaud Dish for refusing to give in to it.
Sigs are for the weak.
If you are running such a big corp, then its your responsibility to forsee and handle problems.
And how would you have anticipated & resolved this problem if you were the president of Dish? Raised everyone's rates? Viacom is being a bully & trying to blackmail Dish into paying an unfair price and force them to carry channels that they don't want to. I don't know how long the negotiations have been going on, but Viacom really doesn't have much to lose here, so I doubt that they've made much in the way of concessions. Why should they. I think that Dish really deserves applause for there decision to stand up to to the bullies under the circumstances.
this isn't insightful, it's trollish. I don't know what everyone else is paying, but I assure you 1/70th of my bill in refund in exchange for taking 10% of my channels is not in anyway fair. Beyond that, most of us have contracts with them that will not let us drop and go to another service without paying an extra cancellation fee. And before you ask, yes, they have clauses that say they can change the programming, but so does every other carrier. Oh, and yes they did just settle a class action law suit on those cancellation fees last may, apparantly they didn't learn their lesson the first time.
I can count to 1023 on my hands. Ask me about #132.
"I was under the impression Dish had better technology and lower prices than DirectTV!?"
Sort of. Dish has cheaper low-end packages (e.g. Dish has a $29.99 package with 60 channels and locals) but after you get to the mid-range packages DirecTV gets more competitive (about $2 more expensive usually).
Dish originally had the capacity to deliver more channels, but thanks to the launch of the 4S and 7S satellites DirecTV now has the lead. This may change with the launch of Dish's next satellite.
As for DirecTV's vs. Dish, all I know are these few things:
Albuquerque PC
This is why they need to restore the restrictions on ownership of broadcast stations. This wouldn't be an issue if Viacom wasn't allowed to actually OWN these 16 broadcast stations. It's ridiculous that they should be allowed to require payment for Dish Network to rebroadcast a local channel that is freely available over the public airwaves as long as they're restricting it to the channel's actual target market.
As for Viacom's cable channels? The only one that has any redeeming qualities is Noggin. The fact that Viacom wants to FORCE everyone who wants to watch any of their channels to subscribe to ALL of their channels is just wrong.
Even worse, they're using their powers as a media juggernaut to deceive the public. You know that story they keep telling about how Dish Network just raised its rates by $3 per month for no reason and yet refuse to pay an extra 6 cents per month for Viacom's programming? It's an outright lie.
First, not all Dish Network subscribers had their rates raised AT ALL... and many of those who did see a rate increase saw a much lower increase than $3.
Second, the programming fee increase that Viacom is asking for is substantially more than 6 cents over the course of the contract. 6 cents per month is just the first year. Think "Columbia House"... those first few CDs may only cost you one cent, but then you're stuck buying a few dozen more at $20 a piece.
Third, they are also trying to force Dish Network to carry additional channel(s) that they don't want to carry. This also adds additional costs as they need to add equipment and manpower to support the additional feeds as well as using up additional bandwidth on their satellites.
Finally, Viacom is trying to claim that since they've successfully negotiated contracts with all of the cable providers and DirecTV that this is Dish Network's fault. What they neglect to mention is that the terms of their contracts with the cable companies and DirecTV are SIGNIFICANTLY more favorable than what they're offering Dish Network... especially the cable companies. That's due in part to Federal laws that set forth specific rules for how much local broadcasters can charge cable companies for rebroadcasting their signals. These regulations don't apply to satellite providers and so the local broadcasters take the satellite companies to the cleaners.
Viacom is urging people to call and cancel their Dish Network service. Dish Network is urging customers to call and complain to Viacom (and their advertisers... good idea) but what EVERYONE needs to do... whether you're a Dish Network subscriber or not is call your lawmakers and get them to start paying attention to the damage caused by companies like Viacom who are allowed to control such a significant chunk of the media without any effective controls placed on them.
Here in Columbus (OH), about three years ago the local CBS affiliate started pressuring Time Warner to carry Ohio News Network on their basic analog cable service in order to continue rebroadcasting CBS. It was a mess, and all the other news agencies loved it. Everything went nuts about a month before the contract renewal deadline, and both sides dug in.
About two weeks before the station was to be pulled from the lineup, Time Warner sent rabbit ears to every customer and included instructions (both written and on their special channel running every half hour). If a customer wasn't sure how to set things up, a tech would even come out before the deadline so that CBS would still work seemlessly. Time Warner took the game to a level the CBS affiliate wasn't ready for.
The end result: Time Warner agreed to carry ONN on digital cable, and the CBS station stayed on regular analog cable. I'm not sure, but I don't believe there was even a rate increase given to the CBS station.
I wouldn't be surprised if these tactics by Viacom end up with the exact same result. Dish may lose a few customers in this, but that's nothing compared to the marketshare Viacom loses if people don't just randomly stumble onto their channel and watch for a half hour. If your station isn't even offered, people just can't watch it, and advertisers just don't want to pay lots of money for that. The price of poker is high here, but I'm pretty sure Viacom's in the position with the most to lose (and the potential gains are only modest).
Long, cute, or funny Sigs are just another form of over compensation, used by geeks, nerdz, etc.
DIRECTV was already a great choice
Remember Smartcard Reader/Writers?
DirectTV is the company that's been extorting thousands of dollars from everybody who ever bought one - regardless of whether they ever used them, or intended to use them, to rip off DirecTV's signals.
When did we stop boycotting people who use extortionist threats to block techies from getting access to technological devices?
Are we all going to start doing business with SCO while we're at it?
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
DirecTV doesn't have these problems, Dish.
They would, except Dish's contract came up before DirecTVs. If DirecTV doesn't have these problems when their contract comes up, it'll probably be because the standard terms have already been worked out by Dish Network, in the same way that the UAW works out the year's contract with one automaker and then says "OK, this is the deal" to the others.
I'd love to see a carte blanche system but it will never in our lifetime. Still, something where there are like 20 5-channel groups for me to pick out my channels would be awesome. They could charge me 3$-5$ per group and we'd all be happy.
-EB
Do you ever walk alone like a drifter in the dark?
Echostar will provide a $1 monthly credit to customers who lose programming while the channels are unavailable. Sorry but $1 a month is not exactly a fair trade off.
d ex.shtml
Guess what? Echostar doesn't own you anything. You should be glad they are giving you that discount, and you'd know it if you actually read the agreement they provide service under. Here's the related section of the agreement:
"G. Changes in Services offered. DISH Network reserves the right to change the Services that we offer, and our prices or fees related to such Services at any time. If the change affects you, we will provide you notice of the change and its effective date. The notice may be provided on your billing statement or by other communication permitted under Section 9B. In the event of a change in the contents of any programming, programming packages or other Services, you understand and agree that we have no obligation to replace or supplement the programming, programming packages or other Services previously offered that have been deleted, rearranged or otherwise changed. You further understand and agree you will not be entitled to any refund because of a change in the contents of any programming, programming packages, or other Services previously offered."
From http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/aboutus/RCA/in
DirecTV sounds like a great choice.
Make sure you learn to read their agreement when you sign up. Don't cry about about it after the fact.
this is my sig
Viacom Press Briefing on EchoStar Pulling our Networks
March 9, 2004
Remarks by Mark Rosenthal, President and COO, MTV Networks:
For the past few months, as this situation with EchoStar has unfolded, we've been trying to take the high road, speaking just to the larger issues and trying to ignore the gross distortions and inaccuracies that Charlie Ergen and EchoStar have been flinging around. There comes a point, however, where you have to respond, if only to set the record straight. And that's why we're here today - and we appreciate your taking the time to join us.
As we said in our statement last night, we are disturbed and disappointed by EchoStar's decision to pull the plug on our channels. This is channel yanking by a distributor on an unprecedented scale. This is not something we wanted to happen or would ever want to happen. We are broadcasters and programmers, and the most important relationship we have is with our viewers. The idea that something or someone would disrupt that relationship -- particularly in an effort to extort a better deal for themselves -- is, to us, really reprehensible. And, additionally, as consumer oriented people, it really bothers us to see a company treat its customers with such disregard.
EchoStar has been trying to paint itself as the victim in this situation. To hear them tell it, they were forced to pull the plug on our networks to protect their subscribers from the "exorbitant" rate increases and unfair carriage requirements we were trying to "foist" on them.
In a word, that's ludicrous.
Here are the facts:
First of all, EchoStar is hardly some small mom-and-pop operation that is being pushed around. It has more than 9 million subscribers -- 10% of all multichannel homes and 43% of all satellite households. It is the fourth largest distributor in the U.S. and as a result it has enormous negotiating power.
Faced with the clout that comes with having that massive distribution, we've been doing everything humanly possible we can -- for months now -- to finalize a deal with them. As I said before, the last thing we ever want to do is wind up in a situation where our viewers can't get the channels and shows they love. So in our negotiations with EchoStar, we were extremely flexible and offered substantial compromises.
Now I hope you will keep in mind that every cable and satellite operator negotiates these sorts of agreements, and we have been able to establish and maintain solid business partnerships with virtually all of them. The sole exception is EchoStar/DISH Network.
Along these lines, I would also point out that over the years there have been thousands of successful marketplace negotiations between broadcasters and cable and satellite distributors involving the packaging of retransmission consent rights with cable carriage. In all those cases, only one company ever had a problem with it. That's right -- it was EchoStar, which complained to the FCC about the same "packaging" practices it challenged in its recent lawsuit against Viacom.
As it happens, the FCC decisively rejected EchoStar's complaint, pointing out that Congress established a detailed regulatory scheme that permits broadcasters to negotiate retransmission consent and cable carriage together. For the same reason, the Federal district court judge who is hearing EchoStar's case against Viacom recently denied EchoStar's motion for a preliminary injunction and gave us permission to deauthorize (which we did not do) EchoStar's carriage of CBS if we were unable to work things out.
It's also worth noting that EchoStar has a history of bringing frivolous lawsuits and has been sanctioned or admonished by federal judges several times, including in a litigation with CBS when they were found by a Federal judge to have engaged in "clearly willful" copyright violations. Just this week, a federal judge sanctioned EchoStar in yet another an antitrust case they brought.
Anyway, we could not have worked harder to
320x240 at 15fps is NOT what I call porn.
I was just watching the Daily Show on Comedy Central, and during the commercial break, just about 30 seconds ago, they ran an ad basically blaming the entire incident on Dish Network and saying, "If you have a friend with Dish, he'll be spending a lot of time on your couch". The punchline at the end of the ad said something like "Comedy Central, now only on Cable and DirecTV".
Frankly, Viacom are the scum of the earth. I used to respect the Daily Show as one of the last bastions of fair and balanced (TM) news reporting available. Jon Stewart and the other correspondents seem to be the only (fake) news reporters that actually tell things the way they are, but for some strange reason they are totally silent about this news story, which is one of the biggest news stories on CNN and all other major news networks. I'm sure Viacom has given them a hush order or some other such mandate, but it really stinks of media bias.
I've lost a lot of respect for the Daily Show today, which used to be one of my favorite programs, and I'm seriously considering starting an email campaign against Viacom.
For those of you wanting to give Viacom a piece of your mind, here is the contact information for the CEO:
Mel Karmazin
M-F 9:00 am to 5:00 pm - (212) 975-6500
or better yet, call him at home on the weekend at:
(212) 956-1007
Cheers, and down with massive media conglomerates.
"When the president does it, that means it's not illegal." - Richard M. Nixon
Who lives in a their couch and watches TV
Couch Po-ta-to
Craving for nothing but his MTV
Couch Po-ta-to
If Comedy Central is all that you wish
Couch Po-ta-to
Call up Viacom and demand it on DISH.
I really hate Dan Patrick.
>This may change with the launch of Dish's next satellite.
Dish has always had the upper hand on capacity. Here's the list of DirecTV satellites (via lyngsat):
101 - DirecTV 1R/2/4S
110 - DirecTV 6
119 - DirecTV 5
I don't know where DirecTV 7S is, it isn't listed.
And DishNetwork run satellites:
61.5 - EchoStar 3
105 - AMC 2
110 - EchoStar 6/8
119 - EchoStar 7
121 - EchoStar 9
148 - EchoStar 1/2
151 - EchoStar 4
That's a *LOT* of broadcast power. And with the Turbocoding (soon to be 8PSK) used on 105/121, that's twice the bang for the buck. Not to mention the option of 7/8 FEC over straight 5/6 QPSK FEC (all that DirecTV supports), they have much more to play with. They can squeeze a bit out of the failing transponders by setting the FEC to 1/2.
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
I'm sorry, but my cable bills are getting outrageous, and I just have basic cable. Cable costs me more and more every year for the same stupid basic channels I've had for the past 10 years.
Part of the reason these bills are skyrocketing is that companies like Viacom are burdened with huge debt.
They can't raise their advertising rates because they don't have the Nelson ratings... get this: Viacom brings us MTV and the likes of Howard Stern. There have been huge public outcries against such programming aired on MTV, Howard Stern and Viacom's other channels/shows. The media response has always been: "If you don't like what you see, change the channel." So that's exactly what people have done. They can't raise advertising rates without the ratings, so they're losing advertisers. Their debt is getting out of control, so they turn to the distributors.
Viacom has told its distributors, specifically Dish Network, that it is raising its rates by six cents per-channel, per-subscriber, per-month. If I were a subscriber to Dish Network, this would mean my monthly bill would need to go up nearly a buck. This is completely outrageous in an industry where 1/4 of a cent in increases is big.
Needless to say, this equates to millions of dollars per-year in added revenue without having to change a single business practice. [Read: easy money]
I say that if Viacom wants more money, they should start underwriting movies and television that people want to watch, just like everyone else.
I applaud Dish Network for putting their foot down.
I say: SUPPORT DISH NETWORK, BOYCOTT VIACOM!
Good security is based upon reality and common sense. Common sense is a function of having common knowledge.
Check out the whois on the domain "ilostmyfavoritechannels.com". It was registered by Viacom back in January! The page contains anti-Echostar remarks and links to go sign up for the competition. Check it out for yourself. WTF is up with that?
Was Viacom planning ahead of time on Dish not giving in to their demands, so they could try to "teach them a lesson" by pulling the channels? What's with all the anti-Dish stuff aired by Viacom on their stations? Viacom keeps pointing the finger at Dish, basically stating that the channels were "removed."
Maybe Viacom was setting out to cause harm to Echostar, who has a history of refusing to bend over and take it when it comes to price increase demands. Or maybe I'm being a little on the conspiracy theory side of things. But I wouldn't put such a thing past them. Everything they're doing (the banners, the anti-Dish stuff, etc.) only keeps pointing the finger at them and away from Echostar.
In case it wants to change, here's the whois for the domain:
Registrant:
MTVN Online Partner 1 LLC (SMQELJVTUD)
1515 Broadway
8th Floor
Attn Pier Borra
New York, NY 10036-5794
US
Domain Name: ILOSTMYFAVORITECHANNELS.COM
Administrative Contact:
MTVi-Admin Contact (35876815O) mtvi-admin@mtvigroup.com
MTVi-Admin Contact
MTVi Group
1515 Broadway
New York, NY 10036-5794
US
+1 212 846-3367 fax: +1 212-654-9068
Technical Contact:
Amirian, Brian (36553847P) amirianb@mtvi.com
1515 Broadway
New York, NY 10036
US
212 846 3223
Record expires on 16-Jan-2006.
Record created on 16-Jan-2004.
Database last updated on 10-Mar-2004 02:46:42 EST.
this is my sig
All Dish customers please try this one out. Last night they had the LOTR Fellowship marathon. Tonight is Monsters inc. This channel is being provided in lieu of all Viacom channel.