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Echostar/Dish Network Pulls Viacom Channels
RedWolves2 writes "As was mentioned yesterday, Viacom was trying to warn Dish Network customers over the weekend that its channels were going to be pulled from their service. Well today those channels were finally pulled. 'EchoStar Communications Corp. on Tuesday pulled from service 16 of Viacom's local CBS stations and 10 of its national channels after the companies failed to agree on contract terms and prices.' Echostar will provide a $1 monthly credit to customers who lose programming while the channels are unavailable. Sorry but $1 a month is not exactly a fair trade off. DirecTV sounds like a great choice."
I am actually on the Dish networks side on this one; what Viacom is trying to with their crappy channel bundling is a joke. That said however, CBS has CSI and Survivor, for most people $1/month is nowhere near good enough.
"The crows seemed to be calling his name, thought Caw."
How about reducing all the packages back to where they were last year, and charging the people who actually WANT Viacom's crap a couple bucks a month? I think I can survive without Racist Entertainment TV & No-Music TV.
Yeah, okay, no South Park is gonna hurt, but that's what the net is for.
I have to give Charlie credit for standing up to viacom.
Hell. They oughta charge an extra $5 monthly for filtering MTV and Nickelodeon out of your home. I'd pay it.
I was under the impression Dish had better technology and lower prices than DirectTV!?
Why are people suggesting to simply go to DirectTV when this is not the issue at hand. Isin't that extremely short sighted.
If it works against Dish, you don't think DirecTV would be next?
I have Charter Cable, and viacom is running ads stating the obivous, that EchoStar/Dish Network is not meeting demands, and airing it on all providers.
This whole situation does not affect me, why bother me?
DirecTV doesn't have the same hardcore porn offerings though. Dish lets you order up porn like you would HBO or ShowTime. DirecTV makes you go with Playboy (not porn) or buy AlaCarte (big bucks.)
I heard about this on the 5pm newscast here in Maryland. Echostar/DishNetwork pulled out a Baltimore station from their lineup.
Of course, it was an NBC station who reported of the CBS station being yanked. The CBS station however was owned by CBS.
--
# Canmephians for a better Linux Kernel
$Stalag99{"URL"}="http://stalag99.net";
DirecTV sounds like a great choice
Sure, if you want to support Viacom's unfair business practices. If they didn't force bundles on the networks, none of this would be going down. Viacom's 'bundling' is certainly no more ethical than Microsoft's 'bundling' that we all hear so much about...
Maybe partying will help...
...that this would be the beginning of a ala carte(sp) cable service. It didn't happen when Disney and Comcast (AT&T) had their fight, but maybe Echostar can pull it off against Viacom.
Of course, the realist in me knows that my cable bill will go up a few dollars regardless. (Yes, I have cable, but I'm sure Comcast will find a way to increase my bill too.)
They no longer get the Sci-Fi or History channel, or even Comedy Central. Is there mass suicide watch?
Echostar will provide a $1 monthly credit to customers who lose programming while the channels are unavailable. Sorry but $1 a month is not exactly a fair trade off.
Why not? When you're paying $6.50 a month, lose some channels, and then pay $5.50 a month what more would you expect? Free home delivered meals for a week out of every month? Sacrifice of the director's first born?
Put things into perspective!
RST
we were going to have dish installed tomorrow, but we put it on hold due to this. what do you guys recommend anyway? just curious.. those channels do affect my family, not necessarily me but my family so it does matter that i get those channels.. directv better or what?
Kyle
http://www.unlogikal.net/
If it were not for the lacking DVArchive feature in TiVo, I'd pick up the DirecTiVo immediately. I'd actually get to watch my programs when and where I wanted to (on a plane, in my hotel room, etc). Having to rip out the HDD and de/trans -code the video is not my idea of a user friendly product.
BBH
PS, your GUI rocks.
One of the channels being pulled is Comedy Central, I just canceled my Dish Membership today because of that.
You think the Cable Company would be falling over themselves to get me back, but they're making me wait 5 days to get Cable!!!
... and in the DRM, bind them.
people talk about crap channels on TV, but that's the point. the reason you can't just pick the channels you want, and skip the crap is because companies like viacom make you take the good with the bad.
of all the viacom channels they offer, the one i want is comedy central. that's it. but i still have to get mtv, nickelodian (sp?), and all their other crap. I DON'T WANT IT.
but i have to get it whether i want it or not, because that's the only way viacomm will sell it.
remind anyone of a certain software companies business practices? you want Windows? you're getting IE and WMP bundled together.
good for dish network sticking standing up to them. hell, i'll probably sign up tomorrow in support of the stance they're taking.
DirecTV sounds like a great choice /. readers as a whole blasting EV1servers for caving in to Evil Company X's immoral and potentially illegal ultimatums? Yet the articles posted on THIS subject all carry an editorial spin of abandonment when a DN stands up against Evil Company Y's extortionist tactics? WTF?
Aren't
I am a DirecTV subscriber, but I've really got to admire Dish' handling of this. Granted, $1/mo. doesn't seem sufficient.
One gripe I have with DirecTV isn't really DirecTV's fault, as evidenced by this thing with EchoStar: why do I have to sit down every couple of months to erase all of the CRAP from "Channels I Receive" list (freestanding TiVo), and pay $50/mo. for the 10 channels I regularly watch?
Packaging isn't just DirecTV/Dish' fault, but the fault of the conglomerates' anti-competitive muscle flexing. You know, if I had to pay $2.00 per month for that channels I do watch (plus $10 for HBO), I'd still be at $50/mo., but I'd be much, much happier about it because I'd know (or at least feel) that I was in control of it.
--Jim (me)
So I'm of a mind to send a message to Viacom: keep your content, I won't miss it. THPHHHHHHHHT! (with apologies to Bill the Cat). I'm much more interested in channels like SciFi, BBC America, IFC, and those wacky independent channels like Worldlink TV.
-- This
I'm not a Dish subscriber, I live in the woods and no satellite service has a snowball's chance in hell of reaching me here, unless I throw up a 100 foot or taller pole to sit the antenna on.
Why do I say this? Because I'm sick and tired of the scrolling on my screen whining about this, it doesn't affect me, I don't care. If MY cable company yanks these channels you can bet I WILL scream bloody murder, having a 3 year old, many of these channels are viewed quite a lot around here.
If I WERE a Dish subscriber I'd be plenty pissed right now though, and probably no longer a subscriber.
However this on-air squabbilng was somewhat entertaining, overall I really couldn't care less and would prefer not to see the scrolling on my screen.
--- www.f-theocean.com
Why would anybody on Slashdot be concerned about that?
Oh, wait...
Show me on the doll where his noodly appendage touched you.
oh, wait.
sulli
RTFJ.
and I did listen to Dish Network CEO talking to customers on the off-air channels.
He makes a couple of good points. According to him, their situation is like 'a consumer who goes to the gas station that is selling gas at $1.50 a gallon but ask you to pay $2.00 a gallon and after you buy gas, they ask you to buy carwash and wiper fluids'. Also, if CBS is really intetersted in getting consumer confidence, then they would've allowed Dish Network to air the channel to its 1.6 million subscribers.
[Rant mode]
Am I annoyed as a consumer? Hell yes. If I pay for the service, it's operation should be fairly transparent. I DO NOT GIVE A FLYING FUCK about companies bitching with each other. If you are running such a big corp, then its your responsibility to forsee and handle problems. I am not taking anybody's side when I say this but this is getting out of control. Companies there are more interested in making the buck without caring about consumer sentiment/service.
[/Rant mode]
Free XBox, PS2
MTV pulled and money back in my pocket is exactly what I wanted. Fuse is 100 times better than MTV/MTV2 anyway.
Sorry but $1 a month is not exactly a fair trade off. DirecTV sounds like a great choice.
/. for switching to a satellite company that has blanket prosecuted people that buy smart card readers (Because everyone that buys one must be doing something illegal!)
First of all, I'm majorly impressed that dish is not bowing to Viacom's demands, as most cable companies AND direct tv have always in the past. I also don't know how anyone could make a case on
Secondly, to everyone but the highest teer (who already recieve every channel), they've added multiple channels until this battle is over. The added networks include FUSE (formerly Much Music) and several additional Disney Networks (to replace Nick.)
I think Dish has handled this issue the best they could, and I think they're closing stock price (Up) reflects what people think of them vs Viacom (who incidentally closed down on the stocks.)
But Viacom won't allow this. Because who would actually pay extra for the garbage channels? If any satellite or cable operator were to threaten to seperate the channels into their own package or to charge individually for them, Viacom would then pull the plug on all of their channels. No company could survive with no Viacom channels, so they give in and pay a huge amount of money for all of them. Disney tried the same thing with Cox Cable. Funny, these types of sales tactics used to be called racketeering and were actually illegal. Imagine if GM had 95% of the American auto market and built their cars to only run on GM brand gasoline?
You are correct, the DIRECTiVo is lacking a few of the features of Series 2 TiVos, and Series 2 TiVos are not as hackable as Series 1.
However, the fundamental purpose of a DVR is to record and playback programs, and the rest is all gravy. The vast majority of people will find that DIRECTV's DVR is far and away the best because they don't need or don't care about those other features.
I agree that it would be great if DIRECTiVo's could do all that Series 1/Series 2 standalones can do, and if all of our platforms were more open to video extraction. But the core competency of TiVo standalones and especially DIRECTV's TiVo-based DVR is vastly superior to all others, and when it comes down to it, that is what matters the most to most people.
I feel the need to reiterate that although I work for TiVo, my opinions are entirely my own.
DirecTV sounds like a great choice
Something isn't right here.
Microsoft bundles a bunch of crap, makes you take everything, and charges out the ass, and everyone gets all up in arms about it.
Viacom does the same damned thing, and you start bitching about changing to DirecTV...a company that already caved in to Viacom's unreasonable demands.
And I hate to break it to everyone, but while $1 doesn't sound like a whole lot, that probably is about right for what carrying Viacom adds to the package price for each customer.
I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
I personally will be sending an email expressing my feelings that even though I am dissappointed to lose Comedy Central for an undetermined amount of time, I stand by Dish Network in their stance against Viacom.
-IOVAR Web Dev Platform
Both sides are throwing out complaint websites. I'd really like to see Dish succeed at this - the local cable company just told us it was raising rates $3/mo. Good to see Dish is standing up for the extortion Viacom is doing.
Dish has two links to complain: Complain to CBS here with a web form
E-mail them directly here
Wonder if we could slashdot CBS's web form? (grin)
They require me to pay dish networks for the obscure channels that I never watch? It's all great and wonderful when you're getting customers to pay for things they don't watch, but when the broadcaster puts it to you the same way, scream bloody murder. Another interesting note is that the huge hike in fees is something in the range of 5% (from what i've read, sorry no sources handy). While a little bit hefty, if this isn't a yearly 5% increase and their contract renews something like every 2-3 years or even 5 years, then is this really that outrageous? Ask an old-timer what Soda, bread, and milk used to cost "back in their day;" prices go up, it's called inflation. That being said, squibbling by putting nasty notes on my screen urging me to get furious and call dish networks, or putting notes on "BET.com" telling me how "Dish Networks is trying to take my BET away" and generally trying to make this into a race issue is simply put, CHILDISH. And covering their message with a black box could easily be prepared to blacking out a commercial for a Presidential Candidate because you think he's a bad choice for your viewers. Grow up, the lot of you.
I can count to 1023 on my hands. Ask me about #132.
I mentioned this yesterday but it was too late to get much notice...
There is an important parallel with what is happening here and what happened to the Hollywood studio system in the 30s and 40s. Hollywood studios owned most of the theaters at that time outright but there were some independents that were trying to stay in the game. The studios would work with these indeprendents, but in order to get a good A movie they would force the theaters to take 4 or 5 crappy B movies as well. This was found to be an illegal practice in the vertical integration lawsuits that concluded after WWII.
This is almost the exact same situation... but now it's actually legal. It was made legal by Ronald Reagan who explicitly made vertical integration legal again (as part of his deregulation program) early in his presidentcy.
It's an anti-cometitive practice and it hasn't always been allowed. There is a good reason bundling was made illegal in the trustbuster days and it should be illegal again... and the practices of both the cable companies and providers like viacom are a great example. Not all regulation are "undue hinderances."
Why don't you embrace your slashbotness instead of living in a dreamworld?
Viacom is a HUGE player in "Television".
DishNetwork's (I didn't know they were still around, BTW) decision to turn their back on this huge player (Their "Media Brands" - CBS, MTV, Nickelodeon, VH1, BET, Paramount Pictures, Viacom Outdoor, Infinity, UPN, Spike TV, TV Land, CMT, Comedy Central, Showtime, Blockbuster, and Simon & Schuster, not to mention any other subsidiaries/divisions of those "Brands") is REALLY FUCKING SIGNIFICANT.
So many channels, so few umbrella. (No plural on purpose)
It's sort of like when you clicked on that checkbox next to Jon Katz' articles.. Except, you don't get the option. In my opinion, and it seems many others, this option is missing from TV that you have to pay for.
Kind of like having to eat from a TV dinner (no pun intended), with 300 little compartments, most of which have some sort of boiled vegetable. A sea of green beans, peas, corn, mashed potatoes, broccoli, brussels sprouts, hot-ass-too-hot-to-eat-apple cobbler, squash, succotash, sprinkled with something that makes you say "Yay!" (South Park, Iron Chef) are like something actually friggin' palatable - meatloaf (not my choice, but hey), fried chicken, tamales, poultry nugget, but each have a significant drawback. Commercials/crap programming as compared to bones/no meat/mushy/tasteless, but otherwise appealing to look at in comparison to the sea of overcooked vegetables.
How'd you like to build your own 15-compartment TV dinner, closer to a reasonable price, as opposed to the more-than-you-want and not-really-all-that-great-to-begin-with and OVERPRICED at that TV dinner?
I would, and I *DESPISE* TV.
dude, you're on the internet. why on earth are you paying for porn?
london is drowning and i live by river
To switch to a different carrier because of this is to punish Dish for standing up to the big content provider. By switching carriers you would be helping Viacom manipulate the industry by forcing the carriers to add programming that they don't want simply to allow them to maintain the rights to other stations. In my opinion this is extortion, and I applaud Dish for refusing to give in to it.
Sigs are for the weak.
Does it now?
-BK
Chemical Blog
"I was under the impression Dish had better technology and lower prices than DirectTV!?"
Sort of. Dish has cheaper low-end packages (e.g. Dish has a $29.99 package with 60 channels and locals) but after you get to the mid-range packages DirecTV gets more competitive (about $2 more expensive usually).
Dish originally had the capacity to deliver more channels, but thanks to the launch of the 4S and 7S satellites DirecTV now has the lead. This may change with the launch of Dish's next satellite.
I submitted this story earlier today. Funny it didn't get picked up then. I also penned a note to the non-managing directors of Viacom.
To the Directors;
I want to convey my sincere regret over the fact that Viacom has decided that punishing the customers of EchoStar in their dispute with the satellite provider is 'good business'. The only solution Viacom has offered to the EchoStar customer base in response to this debacle is "Current EchoStar/DISH Network subscribers who would like to continue receiving BET, CBS, Comedy Central, MTV, Nickelodeon, Nick at Nite, VH1, and all our other channels can easily switch to one of these reputable operators. We urge them to do so." This offhand dismissal of the reality of our collective situation indicates to me that Viacom is completely out of touch with the audience it serves. Many of EchoStar's customers have significant investment in equipment and annual contracts and cannot afford to quickly switch providers as your press release suggests.
By punishing your *indirect* customers, the audience of your shows, you are also punishing your other customers, your advertisers. By refusing to negotiate in good faith with EchoStar, and by denying temporary access to your content during negotiations, your advertisers are losing PAID access to millions of customers of the products and services advertised on your content stream. If you have no regard for the audience of your shows, perhaps you should take the pulse of your advertisers to see how they feel about the current conflict.
I, for one, have taken the time to notify all of the advertisers who have paid *you* for access to *me* through your content stream. I have indicated that the reason I am not making a purchasing decision regarding their products and services is due to *your* intransigence. They are losing thousands of dollars in disposable income a year due to *your* inability to negotiate with EchoStar.
I blame you, not EchoStar, for this impasse. I have notified your advertisers that I will boycott all of their products and services until this issue is resolved. I will also watch carefully all future Viacom acquistions and voice my opinion regarding each proposal to the appropriate regulatory authority (i.e., FCC, SEC, USDOJ). This situation has certainly cast any future consolidation of the entertainment industry in a poor light.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
At the risked of getting modded "redundant", MOST people who have examined the issue think Viacom is the bad guy here.
/.er would support such a tactic is beyond me.
Viacom is another of the megamedia-opolies that have sprung up in the past 10 or 15 years, gobbling up everything in sight, attempting a broad integration of their products (Disney/ABC and AOL/TW are similar, although the latter has done a crappy job of integration). The purpose of this is get leverage over the other, smaller players in the various fields in which they compete, and over their various business partners and customers--like Dish Network.
As others have pointed out, Viacom is engaged in blatant attempt to "bundle" less desirable programming (say BET) with highly desired programming (CBS) to squeeze extra dollars out of Dish--and thus its customers. Why any
And DirecTV is no charmer itself, with its "guilty until proven innocent" attacks on hobbyists.
Finally, while Direct has superior sports coverage (namely the exclusives on the NFL and MLB packages), Dish has several movie channels NOT on Direct. As a movie lover, this is a MAJOR factor for me.
In short, Go Dish Go--and screw Viacom.
As for DirecTV's vs. Dish, all I know are these few things:
Albuquerque PC
you don't want Voom. First of all, it's not all HDTV, only their "exclusive" channels are in HDTV, which includes the "fashion channel", the "moov" channel (which shows nothing but visualizations to music you've never heard of), and "monsters" (old b-movies in HD).
The 30-some channels they also offer are just the regular old channels you get with any other satellite service.
The box costs 900 dollars to buy.
Plus, as of april, they're losing about 6 of their sports channels due to licensing agreements.
Stick with antenna.
hookers and grits.
This is why they need to restore the restrictions on ownership of broadcast stations. This wouldn't be an issue if Viacom wasn't allowed to actually OWN these 16 broadcast stations. It's ridiculous that they should be allowed to require payment for Dish Network to rebroadcast a local channel that is freely available over the public airwaves as long as they're restricting it to the channel's actual target market.
As for Viacom's cable channels? The only one that has any redeeming qualities is Noggin. The fact that Viacom wants to FORCE everyone who wants to watch any of their channels to subscribe to ALL of their channels is just wrong.
Even worse, they're using their powers as a media juggernaut to deceive the public. You know that story they keep telling about how Dish Network just raised its rates by $3 per month for no reason and yet refuse to pay an extra 6 cents per month for Viacom's programming? It's an outright lie.
First, not all Dish Network subscribers had their rates raised AT ALL... and many of those who did see a rate increase saw a much lower increase than $3.
Second, the programming fee increase that Viacom is asking for is substantially more than 6 cents over the course of the contract. 6 cents per month is just the first year. Think "Columbia House"... those first few CDs may only cost you one cent, but then you're stuck buying a few dozen more at $20 a piece.
Third, they are also trying to force Dish Network to carry additional channel(s) that they don't want to carry. This also adds additional costs as they need to add equipment and manpower to support the additional feeds as well as using up additional bandwidth on their satellites.
Finally, Viacom is trying to claim that since they've successfully negotiated contracts with all of the cable providers and DirecTV that this is Dish Network's fault. What they neglect to mention is that the terms of their contracts with the cable companies and DirecTV are SIGNIFICANTLY more favorable than what they're offering Dish Network... especially the cable companies. That's due in part to Federal laws that set forth specific rules for how much local broadcasters can charge cable companies for rebroadcasting their signals. These regulations don't apply to satellite providers and so the local broadcasters take the satellite companies to the cleaners.
Viacom is urging people to call and cancel their Dish Network service. Dish Network is urging customers to call and complain to Viacom (and their advertisers... good idea) but what EVERYONE needs to do... whether you're a Dish Network subscriber or not is call your lawmakers and get them to start paying attention to the damage caused by companies like Viacom who are allowed to control such a significant chunk of the media without any effective controls placed on them.
Here in Columbus (OH), about three years ago the local CBS affiliate started pressuring Time Warner to carry Ohio News Network on their basic analog cable service in order to continue rebroadcasting CBS. It was a mess, and all the other news agencies loved it. Everything went nuts about a month before the contract renewal deadline, and both sides dug in.
About two weeks before the station was to be pulled from the lineup, Time Warner sent rabbit ears to every customer and included instructions (both written and on their special channel running every half hour). If a customer wasn't sure how to set things up, a tech would even come out before the deadline so that CBS would still work seemlessly. Time Warner took the game to a level the CBS affiliate wasn't ready for.
The end result: Time Warner agreed to carry ONN on digital cable, and the CBS station stayed on regular analog cable. I'm not sure, but I don't believe there was even a rate increase given to the CBS station.
I wouldn't be surprised if these tactics by Viacom end up with the exact same result. Dish may lose a few customers in this, but that's nothing compared to the marketshare Viacom loses if people don't just randomly stumble onto their channel and watch for a half hour. If your station isn't even offered, people just can't watch it, and advertisers just don't want to pay lots of money for that. The price of poker is high here, but I'm pretty sure Viacom's in the position with the most to lose (and the potential gains are only modest).
Long, cute, or funny Sigs are just another form of over compensation, used by geeks, nerdz, etc.
DIRECTV was already a great choice
Remember Smartcard Reader/Writers?
DirectTV is the company that's been extorting thousands of dollars from everybody who ever bought one - regardless of whether they ever used them, or intended to use them, to rip off DirecTV's signals.
When did we stop boycotting people who use extortionist threats to block techies from getting access to technological devices?
Are we all going to start doing business with SCO while we're at it?
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
It's actually $5.99/month for just the local channels. The cheapest plan you can get (60 channels) is $24.99/month. And there's a mistake in the article as well: Dish is reimbursing everyone $1 for the "loss" of MTV. But they're also reimbursing the people who lost CBS another dollar. (Source: FAQ on the Dish website) A dollar for all the Viacom networks on the list is a bit small, but a dollar for losing CBS out of the local programming is entirely reasonable, I think.
Isn't this what they do to us anyway? Honestly, look at the 'packages' they give you and tell me how many stations you actualy watch? 3-4 maybe in the first package, another 1 or 2 in the next one up, damn now I need package 3 and 4 just to get the other 3 stations I like. Ok now I'm paying for 200+ stations when I watch... maybe 15 stations? And I'm paying $150/mo for this?
Let's get real, 'adding programing that the customer doesn't want' has been around since cable and got worse with the dish.
Now where's my smart card reader....
I sell Echostar's services for a living and really don't have any illusions about who the good guy is here. There is no good guy. This argument is born entirely of greed and the consumer is nothing but a little circle connected to the much larger Echostar circle with a thick black arrow marked 'income' on the easy to comprehend powerpoint presentation I'm sure is by now doing the rounds at Echostar's orbital death star. Having said that, The Dish Network product that Echostar offers seriously aims to offer a very high value for money proposition. They understand that the psychological barriers involved in switching to their product from cable are very strong. Those ads Comcast ran recently representing the disadvantages of satellite over cable really represent fears the average consumer has; unreliability, bulkiness, and long term contracts worry them. It's mostly FUD, but do not underestimate the power of it.
With that in mind, Echostar has done away with a lot of these issues. They've dropped long term contracts and hardware lease fees, they've developed respectably advanced hardware that minimizes the number of receivers you need in order to watch TV in multiple rooms, and they've added service options for people who seriously think they need professionals to climb up on their roof and nudge their dish every few weeks. In short, they've invested hundreds of millions trying to create a quality proposition to compete with cable. Bearing that in mind, I have no problem believing that a 7 cents per consumer increase in programming price would result in a measurable, if not significant, decrease in Echostar's operating profit.
Of course, as long as we're forced to pay for programs we don't watch in spite of the fact that we all have technology in our home that would empower us to only watch the channels we're interested in and pay the content providers who produce something worthwhile, we'll all have to put up with this crap in one form or another. Whether it's having to miss your Star Trek reruns because the company that ones the network that broadcasts the reruns that you want to see wants the company that allows you to receive those transmissions to force you to receive a cartoon channel that aforementioned company also happens to own and to pay seven cents for the privilige or something a simple as having television that's worthwhile being pulled off the air because ratings measure average viewing habits of incredibly average people with a below average degree of reliability, and executives multiply that by how much money they think they can suck out of these poor average people and equate the resulting dollar value to the word 'good' doesn't really matter. The only people actually being screwed are us, the consumers. If we're not being screwed, they're not doing their job. This whole discussion comes down to nothing more than 'who has the right to screw us more?'
I want the fire back.
I'm a dish network customer.
Their DVR is nothing great. DirecTIVO beats it hands down. They do have a dual tuner unit but it's expensive. A lot of my friends have DirecTIVO but I don't really care that much about it. I don't have time to watch that much TV.
Their customer service was always top notch when I called it. Didn't need to very often though. We've been using them for a lot of years and I've only called them about 5 times, mostly to add channels.
They're clearly saving more than $1 per customer by not paying Viacom. If they quit paying Viacom now and pissed off customers can't cancel until the next month, they're still going to make a lot of extra dough this month. Even if pissed off customers could cancel immediatly, many won't.
I see a "1.., 2.., and 3. Sell Stock & Profit!" coming..
Luckily, I'm not in one of the markets affected by the CBS blackout. It's the only one of the Viacom channels that's watched in my home and even it is rarely watched.
A dollar off the bill for channels I don't watch? Works for me...
By the way, DirectTV does not have some of the channels, I do watch, so it's not really a better deal. The posts yesterday and today almost have the tone of a DirectTV salesman...
DirecTV doesn't have these problems, Dish.
They would, except Dish's contract came up before DirecTVs. If DirecTV doesn't have these problems when their contract comes up, it'll probably be because the standard terms have already been worked out by Dish Network, in the same way that the UAW works out the year's contract with one automaker and then says "OK, this is the deal" to the others.
I'd love to see a carte blanche system but it will never in our lifetime. Still, something where there are like 20 5-channel groups for me to pick out my channels would be awesome. They could charge me 3$-5$ per group and we'd all be happy.
-EB
Do you ever walk alone like a drifter in the dark?
Echostar will provide a $1 monthly credit to customers who lose programming while the channels are unavailable. Sorry but $1 a month is not exactly a fair trade off.
d ex.shtml
Guess what? Echostar doesn't own you anything. You should be glad they are giving you that discount, and you'd know it if you actually read the agreement they provide service under. Here's the related section of the agreement:
"G. Changes in Services offered. DISH Network reserves the right to change the Services that we offer, and our prices or fees related to such Services at any time. If the change affects you, we will provide you notice of the change and its effective date. The notice may be provided on your billing statement or by other communication permitted under Section 9B. In the event of a change in the contents of any programming, programming packages or other Services, you understand and agree that we have no obligation to replace or supplement the programming, programming packages or other Services previously offered that have been deleted, rearranged or otherwise changed. You further understand and agree you will not be entitled to any refund because of a change in the contents of any programming, programming packages, or other Services previously offered."
From http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/aboutus/RCA/in
DirecTV sounds like a great choice.
Make sure you learn to read their agreement when you sign up. Don't cry about about it after the fact.
this is my sig
Dish came out with a DVR before directTV did. I got mine free, it has one tuner. There is a new model with two tuners.
The downside to DirectTV is that it will soon be owned by Rupert the liar Murdoch. So unless you want a programming lineup that is as 'fair and balanced' as faux news it is best avoided.
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
Viacom Press Briefing on EchoStar Pulling our Networks
March 9, 2004
Remarks by Mark Rosenthal, President and COO, MTV Networks:
For the past few months, as this situation with EchoStar has unfolded, we've been trying to take the high road, speaking just to the larger issues and trying to ignore the gross distortions and inaccuracies that Charlie Ergen and EchoStar have been flinging around. There comes a point, however, where you have to respond, if only to set the record straight. And that's why we're here today - and we appreciate your taking the time to join us.
As we said in our statement last night, we are disturbed and disappointed by EchoStar's decision to pull the plug on our channels. This is channel yanking by a distributor on an unprecedented scale. This is not something we wanted to happen or would ever want to happen. We are broadcasters and programmers, and the most important relationship we have is with our viewers. The idea that something or someone would disrupt that relationship -- particularly in an effort to extort a better deal for themselves -- is, to us, really reprehensible. And, additionally, as consumer oriented people, it really bothers us to see a company treat its customers with such disregard.
EchoStar has been trying to paint itself as the victim in this situation. To hear them tell it, they were forced to pull the plug on our networks to protect their subscribers from the "exorbitant" rate increases and unfair carriage requirements we were trying to "foist" on them.
In a word, that's ludicrous.
Here are the facts:
First of all, EchoStar is hardly some small mom-and-pop operation that is being pushed around. It has more than 9 million subscribers -- 10% of all multichannel homes and 43% of all satellite households. It is the fourth largest distributor in the U.S. and as a result it has enormous negotiating power.
Faced with the clout that comes with having that massive distribution, we've been doing everything humanly possible we can -- for months now -- to finalize a deal with them. As I said before, the last thing we ever want to do is wind up in a situation where our viewers can't get the channels and shows they love. So in our negotiations with EchoStar, we were extremely flexible and offered substantial compromises.
Now I hope you will keep in mind that every cable and satellite operator negotiates these sorts of agreements, and we have been able to establish and maintain solid business partnerships with virtually all of them. The sole exception is EchoStar/DISH Network.
Along these lines, I would also point out that over the years there have been thousands of successful marketplace negotiations between broadcasters and cable and satellite distributors involving the packaging of retransmission consent rights with cable carriage. In all those cases, only one company ever had a problem with it. That's right -- it was EchoStar, which complained to the FCC about the same "packaging" practices it challenged in its recent lawsuit against Viacom.
As it happens, the FCC decisively rejected EchoStar's complaint, pointing out that Congress established a detailed regulatory scheme that permits broadcasters to negotiate retransmission consent and cable carriage together. For the same reason, the Federal district court judge who is hearing EchoStar's case against Viacom recently denied EchoStar's motion for a preliminary injunction and gave us permission to deauthorize (which we did not do) EchoStar's carriage of CBS if we were unable to work things out.
It's also worth noting that EchoStar has a history of bringing frivolous lawsuits and has been sanctioned or admonished by federal judges several times, including in a litigation with CBS when they were found by a Federal judge to have engaged in "clearly willful" copyright violations. Just this week, a federal judge sanctioned EchoStar in yet another an antitrust case they brought.
Anyway, we could not have worked harder to
Viacom just won't go for that. Their terms are their terms and they are NOT flexible at all with them. The signal providers must put all of Viacom's big-name channels in their lowest tier of pay-channel service, and pay the rates Viacom wants to charge per subscriber for them.
The distributors are not being given a line item veto. They must accept the entire package, or get none of it. Right now, Echostar's calling that bluff and buying none of it.
It's a standoff all right... the only questions are how long this will go on before somebody blinks, and which side will it be?
320x240 at 15fps is NOT what I call porn.
How about your gf? That's as many fps as you want :)
My other car is first.
He also threw in 4 stations which were formerly on higher package deals. Boomerang(a 24 cartoon network of classic toons), WAM another offshoot of encore Fellowship of the ring was on tonight. toon disney and FUSE. Unfortunatly for me I already had toon disney and FUSE on my line-up. But people on the cheapest bracket may have lucked out a bit.
A flat $5/month covers TiVo service for every DirecTV DVR in the house. If you have 30 DirecTV DVRs, the fee for TiVo service is still $5/month, or if you get Total Choice Premier, it's waived. You can also upgrade the DirecTV DVR's hard drive to 256GB very easily with some cheap hard drives from ebay and a disk image(even one from a standalone).
Albuquerque PC
I was just watching the Daily Show on Comedy Central, and during the commercial break, just about 30 seconds ago, they ran an ad basically blaming the entire incident on Dish Network and saying, "If you have a friend with Dish, he'll be spending a lot of time on your couch". The punchline at the end of the ad said something like "Comedy Central, now only on Cable and DirecTV".
Frankly, Viacom are the scum of the earth. I used to respect the Daily Show as one of the last bastions of fair and balanced (TM) news reporting available. Jon Stewart and the other correspondents seem to be the only (fake) news reporters that actually tell things the way they are, but for some strange reason they are totally silent about this news story, which is one of the biggest news stories on CNN and all other major news networks. I'm sure Viacom has given them a hush order or some other such mandate, but it really stinks of media bias.
I've lost a lot of respect for the Daily Show today, which used to be one of my favorite programs, and I'm seriously considering starting an email campaign against Viacom.
For those of you wanting to give Viacom a piece of your mind, here is the contact information for the CEO:
Mel Karmazin
M-F 9:00 am to 5:00 pm - (212) 975-6500
or better yet, call him at home on the weekend at:
(212) 956-1007
Cheers, and down with massive media conglomerates.
"When the president does it, that means it's not illegal." - Richard M. Nixon
dude, you're on the internet. why on earth are you paying for porn?
Somebody has to capture and encode all of those DivX movies we download.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Why does Viacom bundle channels? What is really in it for them?
Surely they would be better served by killing the underperformers, thus reducing their TCO for the "corporation" as a whole and making more profit on the channels that they did send...
Seems to me that they should concentrate on making their offerings have more appeal if they want them to be generally available through cable and satellite. If the channels do not appeal to a large segment of the public then make them subscription channels, separate in their own right, and give the cable or satellite operator a share of the proceeds. That's a win-win-win. Consumers don't have to have the "martha stewart" channel, the cable/satellite co does not have to pay for it, and the provider gets pay per view dollars.
Oh, but what if those dollars are not forthcoming? Well then, provider, you have learned that your offering is not wanted. Shut it down immediately. First law of the free market.
Well right arm gets REALLY sore if I try anything above 10fps...
Firstly, we need to see the FCC step in and tell CBS that they cant place any restrictions on the rebroadcast of CBS content
Packaging wouldnt be so bad if the channels that were packaged were related.
For example, buy the "Disney" package and get all the disney channels in the one package.
Buy the "HBO" package and get all the HBO channels in one package.
Buy "ESPN" and get all the ESPN channels in one package.
Buy "Fox Sports" and get all the fox sports channels in one package.
etc.
I have no problem with being forced to take MTV2 with MTV1 (or whatever), its that if you want any nickelodian channels, you have to take MTV and other crap as well.
Call into one of their call centers 1-800-333-DISH and complain to the agent that you speak to. When they tell you about the $1 off of your bill, demand to speak to a supervisor.
Supervisors have a fair bit of authority. If you make it clear that there is some program on one of those channels that you NEED to watch if you are going to keep their service, they will be more than willing to write more money off of your account.
1 month of everything for free is not out of the question if you play it right and you get the right supervisor at the right time. Hold out, never accept their first offer and you'll go far.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Who lives in a their couch and watches TV
Couch Po-ta-to
Craving for nothing but his MTV
Couch Po-ta-to
If Comedy Central is all that you wish
Couch Po-ta-to
Call up Viacom and demand it on DISH.
I really hate Dan Patrick.
Well, practice has been around, but it's silly to claim this is ok just because same has already been done by cable co's. I mean, from now on, not only CAN cable guys do that; they WILL BE FORCED to do that by content providers. So any chance customers might have to do some selection may be gone for good. No low-end packages separately; you just have to pay for everything from boring sports to brain-dead "music" channels; and all TV shopping monstrosities in between.
It's sort of like cable channels getting their equivalent of labor unions, that "negotiate" protection they need from publishers like Dish; customers once again ultimately getting shafted worst.
I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization -- Oliver Wendell Holmes
>This may change with the launch of Dish's next satellite.
Dish has always had the upper hand on capacity. Here's the list of DirecTV satellites (via lyngsat):
101 - DirecTV 1R/2/4S
110 - DirecTV 6
119 - DirecTV 5
I don't know where DirecTV 7S is, it isn't listed.
And DishNetwork run satellites:
61.5 - EchoStar 3
105 - AMC 2
110 - EchoStar 6/8
119 - EchoStar 7
121 - EchoStar 9
148 - EchoStar 1/2
151 - EchoStar 4
That's a *LOT* of broadcast power. And with the Turbocoding (soon to be 8PSK) used on 105/121, that's twice the bang for the buck. Not to mention the option of 7/8 FEC over straight 5/6 QPSK FEC (all that DirecTV supports), they have much more to play with. They can squeeze a bit out of the failing transponders by setting the FEC to 1/2.
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
I'm sorry, but my cable bills are getting outrageous, and I just have basic cable. Cable costs me more and more every year for the same stupid basic channels I've had for the past 10 years.
Part of the reason these bills are skyrocketing is that companies like Viacom are burdened with huge debt.
They can't raise their advertising rates because they don't have the Nelson ratings... get this: Viacom brings us MTV and the likes of Howard Stern. There have been huge public outcries against such programming aired on MTV, Howard Stern and Viacom's other channels/shows. The media response has always been: "If you don't like what you see, change the channel." So that's exactly what people have done. They can't raise advertising rates without the ratings, so they're losing advertisers. Their debt is getting out of control, so they turn to the distributors.
Viacom has told its distributors, specifically Dish Network, that it is raising its rates by six cents per-channel, per-subscriber, per-month. If I were a subscriber to Dish Network, this would mean my monthly bill would need to go up nearly a buck. This is completely outrageous in an industry where 1/4 of a cent in increases is big.
Needless to say, this equates to millions of dollars per-year in added revenue without having to change a single business practice. [Read: easy money]
I say that if Viacom wants more money, they should start underwriting movies and television that people want to watch, just like everyone else.
I applaud Dish Network for putting their foot down.
I say: SUPPORT DISH NETWORK, BOYCOTT VIACOM!
Good security is based upon reality and common sense. Common sense is a function of having common knowledge.
You sir, have obviously never heard of
alt.binaries.erotica...
alt.binaries.dvd.erotica...
alt.binaries.multimedia.erotica...
alt.binaries.movies.erotica...
alt.binaries.erotica.vcd...
alt.binaries.vcd.xxx.... or, (my personal favorite)
alt.binaries.multimedia.erotica.lesbians
Any of these newsgroups will provide you with free high quality porn... downloadable, viewable on your computer or television... at resolutions much better than 320x240.
DirecTV charges by the access card, not by the tuner, so no, the second tuner costs nothing.
Exception: (This isn't public information yet) DirecTV will soon begin testing dual-output conventional receivers which connect to two TVs. A repeater for the second TV's remote will connect to the cable and somehow its signal is routed through that cable, along with the television programming.
Sorry, you cannot request these units as a very limited number are being made. They are only in the testing phase and may not be put into mass production--it depends on customer response. Anyway, these receivers have one access card, but are charged as two receivers (because they connect to two TVs simultaneously).
Thus, I guess it would be more accurate to say that DirecTV charged by the number of televisions that can simultaneously display different channels.
Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes. --E. W. Dijkstra
DirecTV and Dish Network both have a comparable number of channels--Dish has more non-English channels and DirecTV has more sports channels.
With this in mind, does it matter if Dish has more capacity if they do not actually use it?
Interestingly, Dish and DirecTV share several satellites at the 110 and 119 positions. Oddly, the programming is duplicated (that is, they do not share the same streams--there are two CNNs, two SciFi channels). Perhaps it is impractical to modify streams to turn DirecTV commercials into Dish Network commercials and vice-versa.
Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes. --E. W. Dijkstra
Check out the whois on the domain "ilostmyfavoritechannels.com". It was registered by Viacom back in January! The page contains anti-Echostar remarks and links to go sign up for the competition. Check it out for yourself. WTF is up with that?
Was Viacom planning ahead of time on Dish not giving in to their demands, so they could try to "teach them a lesson" by pulling the channels? What's with all the anti-Dish stuff aired by Viacom on their stations? Viacom keeps pointing the finger at Dish, basically stating that the channels were "removed."
Maybe Viacom was setting out to cause harm to Echostar, who has a history of refusing to bend over and take it when it comes to price increase demands. Or maybe I'm being a little on the conspiracy theory side of things. But I wouldn't put such a thing past them. Everything they're doing (the banners, the anti-Dish stuff, etc.) only keeps pointing the finger at them and away from Echostar.
In case it wants to change, here's the whois for the domain:
Registrant:
MTVN Online Partner 1 LLC (SMQELJVTUD)
1515 Broadway
8th Floor
Attn Pier Borra
New York, NY 10036-5794
US
Domain Name: ILOSTMYFAVORITECHANNELS.COM
Administrative Contact:
MTVi-Admin Contact (35876815O) mtvi-admin@mtvigroup.com
MTVi-Admin Contact
MTVi Group
1515 Broadway
New York, NY 10036-5794
US
+1 212 846-3367 fax: +1 212-654-9068
Technical Contact:
Amirian, Brian (36553847P) amirianb@mtvi.com
1515 Broadway
New York, NY 10036
US
212 846 3223
Record expires on 16-Jan-2006.
Record created on 16-Jan-2004.
Database last updated on 10-Mar-2004 02:46:42 EST.
this is my sig
Might as well complain about the root problem instead of the symptoms.
I had stopped watching Survivor, but this round has drawn me back in.
I have Dish and have two plans - one is to possibly just hook up an antennta and get signal the old-fashioned way!!
The other way (which I'll try first I think) is to hook up the old cable line (currently running my cable modem only) and see what channels I can get off that. Often the local channels and a few other ones are just sitting around for the taking, no box needed (or at least it was that way years ago, I'll see if it's all digital now or what).
In the end I'm probably switching to Voom soon anyway, I wonder what they do? They sure have a cheap monthly rate.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Do you think the Dish CEO is Mahatma Fucking Ghandi? of course not.
No, but he is actually willing to talk to the customers of his company. About once a month, there is an hour long show on channel 101 where he talks about the state of things, will explain any rate increases, and will also take caller questions. I do choose to vote with my wallet, and Dish will always have my entertainment money.
I was a bit upset when I tried to sign up for Dish again after being in a situation where I shared it with a roomate. I shot an e-mail off to the CEO, and VP accounts. I, in 1 hour, had an e-mail response from the VP, and soon there after a phone call too. In the end, I not only got to sign back up, but also provided valuable feedback right to the VP about a program they rolled out to resubscribers.
I won't be switching to DirecTV.
Seems to me you are advocating allowing Viacom to use extortion to get what they want. Frankly, I won't miss anything that DISH cut from the plate except the Daily Show on Comedy Central. MTV hasn't had any decent programming since the mid 80's. Since you seem to be a salesman for the competition, perhaps you should add that to your signature.
Have a nice day.
I heard that Kenny might die in the next episode of South Park. Now withour Comedy Central I will never know :-(
The way I see it is this.
The one dollar credit is a way to cover all the packages. The low package (24.99) would be more than a dollar, and the high end one (54.00) would be less than a dollar. The package I have (29.99/month is basic 60 + locals) works out to about 3 a month I should get. I am not in an area that has CBS cut out.
Dish has said that they will not raise rates till 2005. Now I am not saying that I know all the details, and I highly doubt that anyone on the boards does know all the details, but from what I have seen, from both sides, is that Viacom wants more money, and wants to stick in more channels. Dish/E* won't do it. According to Dish/E* it would make them raise rates to get the channels.
While there really isn't any of the channels that are blacked out to me that I watch, I am with Dish on this one. I do think that the credit should be more proportional to what you have gotten, but atleast it is a good effort to give something.
I'll take an S2 over an S1 any day of the week! Head over to Dealdatabase.com and read a clue. I can do extraction via a 100meg USB NIC just as easily now as I could with my Replay. You do NOT have to pull the drive from a DIRECTIVO to do extraction, I get it over the network easily! The "scramble" crap that DIRECT insisted on is easily defeated using one of three different (software) methods detailed on dealdatabse.com. In fact Sleeper's ISO does it ALL for you step by step and even shows you the commandlines it runs before making each step (backup, restore, Monte, and hacks). Backup and hacking of a DIRECTIVO S2 is DIRT simple!
I'd LOVE to hear what exactly an S1 can do that an S2 cannot. I have console access, a WEB server running, FTP, Telnet, 2x 120Gigs worth of space, an off the shelf USB NIC, I could run wireless sans WEP if I wanted, and I get my guide updates via satellite. Oh, and my MPEG compression is better since DIRECTIVO don't recompress. Te video extracted from my DIRECTIVO is more compliant than my Replay box's video ever was too...
Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
Don't you understand? If DirecTV still has those channels - it means they gave in to Viacom's prices. Don't you want to stay with the carrier that is agressively negotiating pricing? They're saving _you_ money in the long run by not putting up with this BS! This makes Dish Network _more_ attractive to me!
I think it is a bit hypocritical of Dish Network to complain about bundling when that is exactly what they do with their "Packages." It's not like I can choose not to get QVG, HSN, Oxygen, etc. I have to get a dozen crappy channels just to get the few that I want. If the Dish Network let me pick the channels I wanted, I would be more sympathetic to their complaints about Viacom.
Jens Wessling
All Dish customers please try this one out. Last night they had the LOTR Fellowship marathon. Tonight is Monsters inc. This channel is being provided in lieu of all Viacom channel.
Maybe it's time to ask congress to pass a law saying every channel needs to be sold independently, until everyone learns to play nice.
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