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Killing The Fun - Cheating In Online Games

Posted by simoniker on from the i-aimbot-joo dept.

Thanks to the San Jose Mercury News for its story discussing the ever-present problem of cheating in online games. One of the issues discussed is cheating on Xbox Live using Action Replay-like devices, with a Microsoft spokesperson suggesting: "We didn't go into this with the idea that no one's ever going to be able to exploit this... But we absolutely take this stuff seriously and are taking action on it every day." However, noted FPS player Dennis 'Thresh' Fong laments an unfortunate side effect for the dextrous: "Because there is this perception that everybody cheats, people that are good are not recognized for their skills. When I play online, I'm always accused of being a cheater."

26 of 167 comments (clear)

  1. Oh... by oldosadmin · · Score: 4, Funny

    I thought the word for someone who didn't cheat was "n00b"

    --
    Jay | http://oldos.org
    1. Re:Oh... by wheany · · Score: 4, Funny

      I have done extensive research on recognizing cheaters in Counter-Strike. I have a web page that lists many sure signs of a cheater.

      Using this list you can't have any false positives. So don't bother replying with the usual "I use all of those things and I never cheat" because if you do that, not only are you a cheater, you are also a liar.

  2. Cheating not only in online games... by gringo_john · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Cheating is something that is prevalent in many things in addition to online gaming.

    Take for example the olympics. The "arms race" to build the ultimate undetectable performance enhancing drugs closely mirrors the battle between online game cheaters and cheat detection.

    It's a sad fact that when the more there is at stake, the greater people will be willing to go in order to obtain a win.

  3. Did you ever think... by JavaLord · · Score: 5, Insightful

    However, noted FPS player Dennis 'Thresh' Fong laments an unfortunate side effect for the dextrous: "Because there is this perception that everybody cheats, people that are good are not recognized for their skills. When I play online, I'm always accused of being a cheater."

    Did you ever think people might cheat because they might not want to deal with the "dextrous" players who play 4-50 hours a week?

    Online gaming needs match making and player rankings built into their in game browsers.

    1. Re:Did you ever think... by Hanji · · Score: 3, Insightful

      PLEASE MOD PARENT UP.

      I think there are all too many people who would be casual game players, but who can't get into anything, because while they're trying to figure out what's going on, people like this dude NAIL them. I know I'm one of them.

      Don't tell us that we'll get better if we work at it - WE DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO. We want to be able to sit down and play with people at comparable skill levels and enjoy the game *now*, without having to devote our lives to learning to become uber-1337 at it.

      --
      A Minesweeper clone that doesn't suck
    2. Re:Did you ever think... by Idealius · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It wouldn't make any difference anyway. The cheaters would just create 6 bots instead of one to account for the 6 skill brackets.

      The whole beauty of online gaming is it's chaos. No blood, no foul. Just like life.

      Besides, a game is meant to be competitive. Cheaters have to do just as much work programming those bots as it takes to get good at the game. Not to mention they're caught, and kicked, often making the point moot.

      That doesn't solve Fong's unfortunate side effect, but it does make for some interesting online experiences.

      The things that happen through these machines are only an extension of our intentions. Tell me you've never heard of people sent to die in the deathchamber that were found to be innocent later?

    3. Re:Did you ever think... by eliza_effect · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's what single player if for. Or at least find a server that is at your skill level. Many people find it fun to challenge themselves, and there's no reason to throw that away so you can have an even playing field.

    4. Re:Did you ever think... by ooPo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You hit upon an important point, people who are casual players can look at cheating as a way of levelling the playing field. This is often overlooked in the knee-jerk reaction of 'CHEATING BAD!' we see so often.

      For about a year I ran a Counterstrike server. My brother bought me a copy so I'd run it for him but I ended up getting hooked on it for a while. I saw my fair share of cheaters but I took a relaxed approach to it - if the player wasn't ruining the game for other people I let it slide. It added a challenge from an otherwise uninteresting opponent. On the other hand, if the cheater was putting the beats on everyone else I told him/her to knock it off but usually had to ban the player outright.

      It took a few months of pruning out the griefing cheaters but eventually the server produced a regular group of good players, either by skill alone or augmented by a cheating program. Some of the cheating players even dropped the cheats as their skills grew. We had a lot of fun...

    5. Re:Did you ever think... by Divide+By+Zero · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Besides, a game is meant to be competitive.

      Competitive, yes, but not at the expense of being enjoyable.

      game (n.)
      1. An activity providing entertainment or amusement; a pastime: party games; word games.

      A game is supposed to be FUN. I'm a casual Halo player, and when my friends and I get together to play split-screen or LAN Halo on the XBox, we have fun. When I play Counterstrike online, I get OWNED (or PWNED, or pwn3d), and it is NOT FUN. People much better than me make the game not fun, and it becomes an exercise in walking out, getting brained by some cat who spends his days playing Counterstrike, and waiting for the next round.

      You don't put a high school pitcher on the mound against the Yankees, you don't put a twenty-something who commutes to work and back in a stock car at Daytona, and you don't put a casual player on a public CS server. It's competitive in the sense that two parties are trying to acheive mutually exclusive goals, but it's nowhere near fair. There's no doubt as to the outcome, no fun for the loser and no sense of accomplishment for the winner.

      Thank you very much, but I'll play something else if I want to have fun, and I'll play Counterstrike if I need to feel inferior to a 14-year-old who doesn't do his homework. (A brash overgeneralization intended to illustrate a point; put down your flamethrowers.)

      --
      Dare to Hope. Prepare to be Disappointed.
  4. Aimbot Author here... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    As someone who released the first aimbot for unreal tournament, and coded a few different cheats I can tell you why I, cheated. To grief people. I never cared about looking 'uber'. I was a good player in my own right. I cheated just because I wanted to grief the mindless, shitball, cliquey clannie fuckheads that played that game. I *liked* the fact that they knew I was cheating.

    Other people in my clan/grief group botted for other reasons. One guy just liked looking uber to noobz. Another just throught it was funny.

    1. Re:Aimbot Author here... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I cheated just because I wanted to grief the mindless, shitball, cliquey clannie fuckheads that played that game.

      And you know what those guys think of you now? That you're a mindless, shitball, cliquey clannie fuckhead. Way to feel superior, moron.

  5. Take it as a compliment by Toxygen · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Seriously, if you're so good at a game that you're consistently being accused of being a cheater, just laugh it off and say to yourself "damn, I'm good". Don't get me wrong, it sucks to have people not trust you, but in the end YOU know the truth, so how much should you really care about some insecure loser's paranoid opinion?

    1. Re:Take it as a compliment by dFaust · · Score: 4, Insightful
      While your concept is nice, it just doesn't work out that way. Perhaps you've never been accused of cheating (when you weren't). It's not simply one person who happens to say, "Cheater". It's repeated rants full of explitives. Games are supposed to be fun! How fun can a game be when the entire time you're being called a cock-sucking pussy fuck cheater?? Seriously. Even by people on your own team.

      But that's only the beginning. Some games allow players to be even more proactive... ie: voting. Believe me, when you're playing fair and square and every few minutes a vote comes up to kick and/or ban you from the server..... not my idea of fun. Especially if you actually DO get kicked. Talk about killing the mood.

      Yeah, it's flattering in a way. But it gets old FAST.

  6. Why? by Apreche · · Score: 3, Funny

    Why is it so easy to cheating at online fps games? Can some of you l33t h4x0rz put some effort into cheating in online casinos. Make that roulette wheel show up 00 every time. I'll split the winnings with you halfway. With that kind of money you can hire the world champion of counter-strike to play for you. Win without touching the mouse even!

    --
    The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
    1. Re:Why? by JavaLord · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why is it so easy to cheating at online fps games? Can some of you l33t h4x0rz put some effort into cheating in online casinos.

      Because Online Casino's aren't open source, and don't encourage modding of their games. Have you ever seen Roulette-"Counter Strike edition"?

      FPS games would be much more secure if they weren't so open and didn't allow for modding. I know the open source advocates here are going to scream about how open source is more secure, but it isn't when it comes to games because some things in games can not be patched aftermarket.

    2. Re:Why? by Aliencow · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, they'd be more secure if they were 100% server based like Casinos are. It's not like the outcome of the spin is determined on your pc. However, due to lag reasons, your PC has to know where everyone is even though you shouldn't see them..

    3. Re:Why? by slittle · · Score: 3, Insightful

      He implies no such thing. He said your machine knows where they are even if you can't see them. ie. your machine knows more than it's telling you, therefore you can cheat by accessing this data.

      What is implied from this is that the server should deny or delay to the client any data it doesn't absolutely need. There are many problems with this of course, but they can be dealt with..

      --
      Opportunity knocks. Karma hunts you down.
  7. Technological solution by El · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Cheating being possible at all is a side effect of having the client know too much about the game state -- the position of other players, collision detection, etc. This is presumably done in an attempt to work around the lag introduced by the network. This means only real-time games are susceptible to cheating; turn based or casino type games cannot be cheated in. It also means that faster networks should enable game makes to validate inputs and make more of the decisions on the server side, thus making cheating obsolete even in FPS games. Until then, anything you do to stop cheaters is just a temporary stop-gap in a never ending arms race.

    --

    "Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney

    1. Re:Technological solution by Eivind · · Score: 4, Insightful
      This is only partly true. *some*, perhaps even *most* cheats are a result of the fact that, as you say, with common game-designs the client knows a lot more than it *should* tell the player. And so by changing the client to disclose it, you gain an advantage.

      Typical examples include cheats that let you see trough walls, or cheats that give you a wider field of view.

      But that's not the *entire* problem. There's a few more classes of cheats. And those cannot be eliminated by the server only telling the client stuff that the player should see;

      Aimbots. You see (and should see) the enemy on the screen. Some program helps you aim so that you hit better than you otherwise would. If you always hit 100%, it could conceivably be detected, but the problem is that the aimbot can be adjusted to be *precisely* as good as the server will allow anyone to be.

      You mention casinos, card-games and turn-based games. Those can be cheated (well, it's up to you if you count it a cheat, but atleast it'll give one player an unfair advantage over the other players) for example by having a program count cards for you. It's quite a big advantage in for example online bridge to *always* know *exactly* which cards have been played and which remains. Good players will remember some of it, but a program will remember all 100%.

      Then there's the problem of behind-the-scenes communications. To stick with the bridge-example, two players on a team have a *humongous* advantage if they can tell each others, somehow, what cards they have. With online gaming, this is obviously as simple as IM.

      Or let's say online poker. Let's say it's implemented with Schneiers cryptographically secure poker-system, so that no client can cheat. But, the thing you don't know is that the three other guys at the table are really friends, and communicating over IM. They'll tell eachothers who has the best hand, and the others will fold. Essentially, you're playing against a player who gets three hands every round, and can choose the best one to play with. You will loose. There is nothing the game-client can do to prevent this. Even if it *somehow* blocked all other ip-communications, the others could be sitting in the same room and communicating by talking, or they could be sending eachothers sms or any of a 100 other possibilities.

      You're rigth that telling the client less will reduce or eliminate *some* types of cheats. You are wrong however in claiming that this is the only reason cheating is possible at all.

  8. Simple Solution... by BTWR · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Simple solution... ever play Yahoo games? There are beginner, intermed and expert rooms to choose from. This might be something to consider in games. I find that the rooms are pretty honest in skill level. Sure, someone could troll the beginner rooms if they're good, but, from the Yahoo example, it doesn't happen (much). If you're #4 ranked, but in the beginner level, that's not much respect.

  9. thinking all the time by August_zero · · Score: 5, Insightful

    But that isn't a reason to cheat is it? How many "casual" gamers do you think cheat? If I had to make up numbers, I would guess that most of the cheaters, hell I would guess a vast majority of them play the game in question as much as the ubber-1337 players do. There is this tendency for people to assume that people that cheat suck or have no skills and that is why they cheat, I think this is just something we tell ourselves when we lose to a cheater ("if he wasn't cheating I would own him!") People that cheat are people that either don't want to lose, or they are doing it just to ruin the game experience of others. I would be very surprised if you could find me a below average player that uses a couple of cheats to level the playing field.

    I see what you are saying, but I am not sure that there is really any relevance to the subject at hand here, I mean I don't think its fair that I own a crappy car, but does that mean you could empathize with me if I robbed a bank to buy a better one?

    --
    On Wall Street they say "buy low, sell high" On the pad we say, "buy high, sell high" Isn't that somehow better?
  10. So an aimbot evens the field?? by Kelmenson · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Don't tell us that we'll get better if we work at it - WE DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO. We want to be able to sit down and play with people at comparable skill levels and enjoy the game *now*, without having to devote our lives to learning to become uber-1337 at it.
    None of the cheats out there "even the field"... They don't improve your aim; they make it impossible to miss. How is that enjoying the game? The only enjoyment the cheaters get is in annoying the other players of the game.

    Its not like the cheats are a handicap where you can give yourself 30% extra life or money or something... They are all or none.

  11. Cheaters are not that bad by superpulpsicle · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Cheaters are bad. But they are NOTHING compared to TKs.

    At least cheaters you kick and they go cheat somewhere else. TKs keep coming back cause they enjoy it too damn much. Not to mention TKs have a sad history of coming back with different name.

    At least cheaters are wanted by one team. TKs are hated by everybody. The team that win gets an unsatisfying victory. The team that lose gets abused.

  12. Cheaters are sick. by gumpish · · Score: 3, Insightful

    As someone who released the first aimbot for unreal tournament, and coded a few different cheats I can tell you why I, cheated. To grief people.

    So in other words, you're a sociopath. You derive pleasure from antagonizing others in a way that leaves them no recourse.

    Let me guess - pulling the wings off of flies and burning ants with a magnifying glass are among your cherished childhood memories. Maybe you had "fun" with firecrackers and the family pet?

    I'd hate to run afoul of Godwin's Law, but the senseless sadism exhibited by cheaters seems like it would fit right into some sort of guard/prisoner dynamic.

  13. Find some people you trust... by Shazow · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Back in the days of Diablo (1), one of the most cheated-in games ever, a few of my close friends from school decided to limit our gameplay amongst ourselves so we wont be affected by the cheating going on in the "real world". We managed to enjoy the game a great deal, none of us cheated. It's based on trust, really. If you can find a few people that you trust and play with them, it increases the enjoyment of the game enormously.

    Same goes for first person shooters or any other game. Find yourself a clan with trustworthy members, and play.

    Just because everyone else cheats, doesn't mean you have to expose yourself to their damnation.

    - shazow

  14. winners never cheat by ddsoul · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Cheats can be quite effective, especially to police those that DO cheat. Back in the ol' CS days, on my friend's server we had always suspected this one guy who frequented his server of cheating. Needless to say I found one of these "wall hacks" to monitor his actions and the way he played (just from ghosting around and observing through walls.)

    It was quite effective to watch as he was able to predict exactly where everyone was (ie shooting through doors or being rather hesitant when going up or down the sewers..etc etc, I think if cheating is such an issue, there could be designated "Watchers" who get the ability to see through walls and observe, just there to monitor the play like referees at a sporting event. Fighting fire against fire so to speak.

    But from what I remember anti-cheat software (is punkbuster still around??) has really progressed in the past few years, I guess the same can be said about cheaters tho.

    --
    *604x