Four Big ISPs File Six Anti-Spam Suits

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Four Big ISPs File Six Anti-Spam Suits

Posted by timothy on Wednesday March 10, 2004 @06:14AM from the woodshed-time dept.

ackthpt writes "Wired is carrying news that Microsoft, America Online, Earthlink and Yahoo are filing suits against spammers under the CANSPAM act. They will 'follow the money' to find the perpetrators and shut them down. Suits currently filed against John Does will have actual names attached once subpoenas get the names of the actual persons. I wish them all the luck, as I clean about 500 pieces of drek a day from my mailboxes." Other readers point to coverage from the BBC and from the Associated Press (here's the AP story as carried by the Boston Globe).

33 of 382 comments (clear)

I wonder how effective this will be... by Zone-MR · 2004-03-10 06:14 · Score: 5, Insightful

I wonder what effect this will have on the number of spam messages we get daily?

Six spammers is probably a drop in the desert, and shutting them down won't cause a noticable impact, but at least it's a start.
1. Re:I wonder how effective this will be... by isn't+my+name · 2004-03-10 06:15 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  I wonder what effect this will have on the number of spam messages we get daily?
  
  I bet it will have an effect, but more than likely the long-term effect will simply be to move even more of the spam off-shore.
2. Re:I wonder how effective this will be... by Like2Byte · 2004-03-10 06:16 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  It'll probably be very effective considering that a few spammers are responsible for most of the SPAM anyway.
3. Re:I wonder how effective this will be... by notque · 2004-03-10 06:18 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  I bet it will have an effect, but more than likely the long-term effect will simply be to move even more of the spam off-shore.
  
  This has been a trend that I've noticed for awhile. Soon all spam jobs will be moved off-shore, and our Government doesn't do anything to stop this.
  
  Earthlink has personally been responsible for 3 severance packages I've recieved (3 ISPs, all bought by Earthlink, and my job phased out.)
  
  Now they want to take away any possibility of me working to create, or to stop spam.
  
  I'm outraged.
  
  --
  http://use.perl.org
4. Re:I wonder how effective this will be... by blurfus · 2004-03-10 06:19 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  But then again, if it is like local auto-theft (in this city anyway) where 5 thieves are responsible for over 80% of the auto-related crime, it could make a difference
  
  These six spammers *may* be responsible for (say) 50% of the spams. It is at least a good 'chunk' to make an impact (if that were the case of course)
  
  imho
  
  --
  will work for Karma
5. Re:I wonder how effective this will be... by secolactico · 2004-03-10 06:22 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  I bet it will have an effect, but more than likely the long-term effect will simply be to move even more of the spam off-shore.
  
  Yes, but will the spam beneficiaries move off shore (like some of the online gambling operators had to)? Unless they are willing to move also, the "follow the money" procedure will get to them.
  
  --
  No sig
6. Re:I wonder how effective this will be... by ackthpt · 2004-03-10 06:23 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  I wonder what effect this will have on the number of spam messages we get daily?
  
  Six spammers is probably a drop in the desert, and shutting them down won't cause a noticable impact, but at least it's a start.
  Do you think it's at least as good as doing nothing? Set some examples, drag some faces before the cameras, tell how their houses on Minnow Pond Drive have been seized, things like that. I've got no sympathy. I do hope they really nail the right people. I wish I could bill Alan Ralsky for all the time I've wasted deleting his deluge.
  
  --
  
  A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
7. Re:I wonder how effective this will be... by MadelineAlbright · 2004-03-10 06:30 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Moving offshore will only work to some extent. If laws can be created that allow you to go after the companies who pay the spammers to spam, and we manage to stop the the local companies from paying for spam to be sent, then the only people left are offshore sales companies. But they really don't want to pay for international shipping for a few bottles of viagra, so spam should diminish a fair bit at that point.
8. Re:I wonder how effective this will be... by Albanach · 2004-03-10 06:35 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Spamhaus reckon less than 200 spam outfits make up 90% of spam. So 6% would be a bit more than a drop in the ocean - and if they get caught and face big fines (or jail time) we could see an even bigger impact.
9. Re:I wonder how effective this will be... by Otter · 2004-03-10 06:43 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  I wonder what effect this will have on the number of spam messages we get daily?
  I realize I'm almost alone here in my sentiment, but -- the tide is turning on spam. It's simply making email unusable. Email is too useful and too important to ISPs, software makers and corporate users for them to allow a handful of morons to destroy it. Something has to be done and therefore something _will_ be done.
  I keep saying that here and am always surprised by how confident everyone else is for the spammers. I just don't get you guys -- we're all helpless in the face of big corporations but a bunch of dirtbags flogging V*!*a*g*r*a and Par1s H1lt0n V1d30s! can spit in Bill Gates' face?
  
  --
  What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
Huh? by MachineShedFred · 2004-03-10 06:15 · Score: 5, Funny

Microsoft and AOL are evil.
Spam is evil.

Microsoft and AOL are fighting spam.

Microsoft and AOL are fighting evil?

My brain hurts...

--
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
1. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 06:23 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  Think of this as a turf war between biker gangs.
  
  You have the spammers muscling in on AOL and Microsoft's territory, scaring all their customers. And you have Microsoft and AOL retaliating by taking hits out on the opposing gang leaders.
2. Re:Huh? by Cruciform · 2004-03-10 06:23 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  It's not so much fighting evil, ask seeking to gain a monopoly on it :)
3. Re:Huh? by Daniel+Dvorkin · 2004-03-10 07:01 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  God, this joke is getting old.
  
  Look, people: there are no angels in this business, and everybody knows it. Microsoft is evil, spammers are evil, AOL and Yahoo! are only slightly less evil than the first two; also on the "evil" list are Apple, Sun, IBM, Dell, Oracle, Adobe, and, well, pretty much any company with yearly revenue in excess of $1 million. Every single one of them would dominate the entire business world, crush the competition, and eliminate all innovation that didn't translate directly into greater short-term profits if they could.
  
  What most of us down here at the bottom of the food chain understand is that it doesn't matter. We support companies -- whether "support" means buying their products or just cheering them on -- not on the basis of their moral purity (because there isn't any) but on the basis of what's most useful to us. If Microsoft spends some portion of its ill-gotten gains on cutting down on the amount of spam I get, that is useful to me, even if everything else they do is not only useless but actively harmful. There's no cognitive dissonance involved.
  
  --
  The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
Spamdemic map by prostoalex · 2004-03-10 06:15 · Score: 4, Informative

Several years ago this spamdemic map was quite popular. It's an attempt to have a poster that would allow you to figure out who's behind all those "get out of debt" messages in your inbox. Some of that is still relevant nowadays.
Hope it works by Elpacoloco · 2004-03-10 06:15 · Score: 5, Insightful

Used to be spam tried to tell me something. Now it's so clogged with filter-defeaters that they can't manage to squeeze in a message.

Hope they recover at least their sysadmin's time.
Now this is... by enrico_suave · 2004-03-10 06:16 · Score: 5, Funny

Now this is a witch hunt I could get behind!

Spammers are my inbox terrorists =(

e.

--
Build Your Own PVR/HTPC news, reviews, &
Can-Spam is not far enough though by RandBlade · 2004-03-10 06:19 · Score: 5, Insightful

Good start, but it doesn't go far enough. Part of the law for Can-Spam they're being prosecuted under is the absence of addresses to get off a mailing list - but who is seriously going to click on a link if they are there? How do we trust them?

This won't stop until spammers start getting locked up for years and people stop buying off them.
Re:Four Big ISPs File Six Anti-Spam Suits by Kenja · 2004-03-10 06:19 · Score: 4, Informative

"Since when has Microsoft been an ISP?"
Since they started the Microsfot Network? MSN started as an AOL style dial up service back around '93-'96.

--

"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
Great. by Gannoc · 2004-03-10 06:21 · Score: 5, Funny

Now i'm going to never get out of debt long enough to afford that penis enlargement.
What is our role? by ParadoxicalPostulate · 2004-03-10 06:22 · Score: 5, Interesting

I'd like to bring up what I think is an interesting point here.

How does this type of announcement (and others like it) affect our role in this struggle? What can we do to make their efforts more fruitful?

I know people who in the past took it upon themselves to trace certain spammers and send an email with relevant data to the host mail provider (lets say, Yahoo for instance) in an effort to perhaps provoke some response.

My question is: does this work? Is it effective? Or will the spammer just as easily switch addresses? If so, was it worth it to give them that kind of trouble or are we simply wasting our time?

If, after this discussion, we determine that it is a worthy method of helping, how would you go about doing it? What type of advice would you give to people who would like to take action once in a while?

Obviously I can't take action against every piece of spam that hits my mailbox. However, there are certain, shall we say...habitual offenders. Looking at my hotmail account over these past few years (I use my optonline account for serious mail) its fairly easy to figure out that a large bulk of those emails are coming from a common source.

Anyway, I'd really appreciate some input - including technical details.
10 years from now by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-10 06:22 · Score: 5, Insightful

I expect my inbox to be filled with just as much spam and all the lawyers will be slightly richer.
This should be at least amusing by LordZardoz · 2004-03-10 06:23 · Score: 5, Funny

Most slashdotters seem to hate Microsofts army of Lawyers. Or, they hate lawyers in particular. Slashdotters also hate spammers

Its always entertaining to see the anti-lawyer anti-corporate crowd actually agree with something that a lawyer heavy super corporation does.

END COMMUNICATION
1. Re:This should be at least amusing by Sloppy · 2004-03-10 07:20 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Most slashdotters seem to hate Microsofts army of Lawyers.
  You might want to look back. Microsoft is hated, but their "army of lawyers" has been pretty low-profile. When was the last time that army really made any significant trouble for the good guys? Sheesh, even Slashdot was able to stand up to them.
  It's the Microsoft lobbyists and salesmen that you have to worry about. Quit thinking of Microsoft as litigious assholes. It's not that I worry about people having ill-will toward MS, but if you think of them as litigious, you're just falling for a feint. That's when you get stabbed in the heart by their real weaponry.
  
  --
  As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Re:Push them underground? by Tripster · 2004-03-10 06:28 · Score: 5, Insightful

Umm, they are pretty much underground now aren't they? Considering the spammers are almost exclusively using the trojaned PC network to relay their crap I would say it is as underground as you can get.

This "follow the money" routine will work, the spammers need to get paid at some point, and considering most of their income is based on amount of sales from the spam then you just need to have a nice chat with whomever is accepting the loot and sending the products.
Spam is just getting rediculous! by AcquaCow · 2004-03-10 06:30 · Score: 5, Informative

As one of my responsibilities I admin and camp the spam filter at work. We get a few thousand emails a day into a company of 80.

Much of this spam has had to resort to making their emails unintelligible to try and bypass spam filters.

Others like Aphroditie Marketing have atleast 2 class C licences with full dns for each address that they send email out from. I've had to firewall off entire class C's to block their emails!

C'Mon...who is going to read email with a subject line like:
"Order Meds V@1|um - XA:n:az ; V|@grA & %RND_MED_VIC+0DIN $ .Soma. $ Pnte:r:min LV0J2" anyways?

At some point of obfuscation it has to just become a giant waste of time to try and send the email out.

--

up 12 days, 22:30, 2 users, load averages: 993.20, 994.21, 994.56
*makes note to limit user processes...
This is terrible. by Gannoc · 2004-03-10 06:30 · Score: 5, Funny

This is an biggest outrage. The only thinging that these companies will accomplish is the suppression of the super legitimate business methods for 100% legal legitimate businesses. This is shameful.

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What about us? by Woogiemonger · 2004-03-10 06:33 · Score: 5, Interesting

These spammers are being sued for damages to the ISPs? Why can't they include their customers in the law suit? We're the ones supporting every dollar they earn, and we suffer plenty because of spammers. The ISPs are footing the bill for the lawsuit, sure, but it'd be nice if we got a coupon or something.
1. Re:What about us? by PhxBlue · 2004-03-10 06:45 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  When was the last time the ISPs hiked up the rates explicitly because of the E-mail traffic they had to filter and handle? Call me old-fashioned, but I'd settle for the lower volume of spam that will result from this action The time I would save is worth more than a 50 coupon.
  
  --
  !#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
Re:Special Treatment by lostboy2 · 2004-03-10 06:40 · Score: 4, Funny

Unless some has a better idea?

How about force-feeding them one can of Spam for every spam message they sent? You are what you eat, so maybe you should eat what you are.
Better link to AP article by Patik · 2004-03-10 06:45 · Score: 4, Informative

Click here.
MyWay.com carries all AP and Reuters articles with no banners, popups, or any kind of registration. Just a couple inobtrusive Google-provided text ads at the bottom. They also have reg-free referal links to NY Times, USA Today, CBS, FOX, and MSNBC stories.
And the war to create "good spam" has begun by wayne · 2004-03-10 06:53 · Score: 4, Insightful

Remeber that the You-Can-Spam act has penalties that are so small that only cost effective for the largest ISPs to can bring claims against spammers. So, only the largest ISPs can really decide which spam gets eliminated. Remember also that you can't bring any claims at all if you are not an ISP.
There is a HUGE potential market out there for "good" bulk advertising out there, if only all the pr0n and scams can be eliminated. These large ISPs have an "existing business relationship" with all their customers, and maybe arguably with those that send email through their servers. Just think of how much these ISPs could make by sending "good" spam from Ford, Pepsi, Pfizer, or PlayBoy.

--
SPF support for most open source mail servers can be found at libspf2.
Slashdot Interview with SPAM fighters @ Big 4 ISP' by rearden · 2004-03-10 07:00 · Score: 4, Interesting

I think this news opens up a great opportunity for Slashdot readers and Sys Admins in general. This would be a great time to be able to put questions to them such as:
1. What are you doing to track down spammes.
2. What can we do to assist? Is there some type of site, or address we can send information to assist in tracking down offenders.
Lets get an interview.
Just my thoughts.

--
Huh?