Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Obtaining Legal MP3s Outside of the U.S.?

Posted by Cliff on from the there's-a-whole-music-lovin'-world-out-there dept.

frankkubiak asks: "I recently bought the new iPod with 40GB. I understand the arguments of the record industry, that I should buy the music I want to hear. Alright. So I don't want to get MP3 files by file-sharing. But here is my problem: I live outside the U.S., in Germany to be exact. iTunes only offers service to those inside the U.S. (see this related Slashdot article). I don't want a CD, vinyl record, tape or minidisc. I simply want to listen to the music. Even if I decide to buy a legacy audio CD, it is often copy-protected and won't load in my PC. So, strictly speaking, it is not even an audio-CD. Heise keeps a database of those un-CDs (German language. English speakers can use this fish-translated page). It sounds incredible, but even after hours of research on the web, I don't see a legal way to use this device with new songs. The only way I see to use this device is to buy a CD, and if I can't rip it, I'll have to [break the law and] download the MP3-file via file-sharing. I believe there are more people like me out there who want to listen to their music, without feeling guilty. Why is there no one meeting this demand? How does Slashdot feel about this?" Before you mention Napster, let's note that it has similar restrictions (see the "International Considerations" section). So where can non-U.S. internet users go to download the legal MP3s that they want?

38 of 623 comments (clear)

  1. This may sound stupid but.... by commo1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You could buy the CD, download an MP3 from a site and play it. You own a legal copy, you're not technically stealing.

    1. Re:This may sound stupid but.... by zuzulo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Internationally rights to songs are an interesting issue. On the bright side, before the internet many US companies sold the rights to thier song libraries for international distribution quite cheaply, so now there are various organizations in other countries that have legal rights to thier back catalogs. One good example is

      www.allofmp3.com

      which is a russian site. high variable bit rate encoding of songs from quite a large catalog for about .90 US a CD. Read the FAQ to look at their legal position.

      --
      "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    2. Re:This may sound stupid but.... by HuguesT · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Repeat after me: copyright infringement. Also I don't think the police will be going after you if you rip your own CDs, they have bigger fish to fry. Finally the minute the copyright holders try to go after this practice which is *very* widespread certainly in Australia, the minute the law will get changed.

      So you should rip your own stuff, and see if "they" care.

    3. Re:This may sound stupid but.... by niko9 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Would this also apply to vinyl? I have lot's of rock on the dead wax, but I don't have the CD.

      Would I be breaking any laws for downloading and MP3 of a song I have on vinyl?

      If you think about it, vinyl is superior to both the CD and the MP3, so downloading the lossy MP3 should not be a problem.

      Comments?

      --

    4. Re:This may sound stupid but.... by Roman_(ajvvs) · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Although I'd agree ripping your own stuff is a very low-risk activity in australia, I doubt that laws will change for the interests of the individual any time soon around here.

      Currently with the Free Trade Agreement negotiated with (or forced on us by) the U.S., australia is set to introduce the "mickey mouse" clause into copyright and bring the whole place more in line with ill-considered U.S. laws. The Sharman networks raid caught me by surprise, but there has been very little said about it in official political circles. It's an election year here too and Australian political parties aren't really known for their tech-saviness at the best of times. It will be extremely difficult for the current government politically if the FTA isn't accepted.

      As far as copyright goes, there's a reason it was sacrificed on the altar of free trade: it's expend- extendable..

      --
      click-clack, front and back. I'm not moving this car otherwise.
    5. Re:This may sound stupid but.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Um. The law isn't stupid. It's just that you misunderstand it.

      The law is called "copyright." It concerns itself with who has the right to make copies. The law says, in general, that the only person who has the right to make copies is the person who holds the copyright. (Duh.) There are exceptions, situations in which the right to make copies is granted implicitly. For example, if you buy a CD, you have the implicit right to make copies of the music on that CD for your own use.

      That does not mean that anybody else gets the right to make copies on your behalf. That would be crazy. "Some guy in Topeka bought the new Britney Spears CD, so now we have the right to make copies of it." That's just not logical.

      You might disagree with the law (though, frankly, it's hard to see how you could unless you just adopt the extremist, info-anarchist, "rights are dumb" position), but you have to admit that at least it's grounded in internally consistent principles.

    6. Re:This may sound stupid but.... by OzTech · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That is not correct. In Australia we also have a blank media levy which is applied to all tape ( audio and video ), CD-R, DVD-R and similar media. You are permitted to make a copy for personal backup use.

      What irks me is that most blank media is probably being used to record and copy original content and data, yet the vultures and leeches are getting paid via this levy for non-licensed works.

      I just wish that someone in a position of power would realise this.

      Sadly they don't have the faintest idea. Only recently John Tingle a member of the NSW Parliament wrote a letter to the Editor of a local Electronics Magazine. It was a few months ago and I don't have the article handy. From memory; In the letter he mentioned how distraught he was that a huge classical collection of CD's he owned was deteriorating now that they are some 15 years old. He was complaining that he couldn't buy replacements and had to resort to copying them although some were beyond recovery and the recording label could not sell him replacements.

      What he missed was that he has already paid for a perpetual license to listen to this material. Therefore by offering to buy new copies, he would have been paying twice to listen to music he has already licensed. He also failed to realise that he is also paying a media levy for the blanks he is now using to duplicate his collection on, and therefore the recording company are once again, effectively charging him twice for the same license.

      With goons like this passing legislation, what hope have we got.

    7. Re:This may sound stupid but.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Your use of "untrained ear" is amusing.

      The bogeyman of "infinite resolution" with regard to vinyl is just that; it isn't true, and it really oversimplifies what's going on. "Sampling of discrete values" makes it sound as if you're only getting a summary of the information contained in an original waveform, which isn't true.

      Yes, the data on a CD is made up of samples. These *represent* the waveform, but are not *the* waveform. The DA step converts these samples back into the original waveform. There is no continuity "lost" in this process, depending on the frequency response and SNR of the original signal.

      For example, say you have an analogue tape that has data of up to 16kHz. By Nyquist, 44.1kHz is more than enough room to encompass *all* of that data, and the 16bits gives (going by memory, so I'm likely wrong on this figure) 96dB of dynamic range; far more, in other words, than vinyl ever had.

      I'd really like to find an audiophile someday who'll admit to liking the inherent analogue distortion in records. It's pleasing! Great. It isn't enough to elevate audio *above* science, somehow.

      Check out sites like Maple Shade Records for prime voodoo. As the same people who believe that analogue is always inherently superior to digital believe that a glorified hatrack "improves soundstage, makes highs livelier, and sounds like a blanket has been removed from your speakers"...I can't say I have much to do with them.

    8. Re:This may sound stupid but.... by Popageorgio · · Score: 2, Interesting
      That's an excellent point. Of course, it doesn't matter in the U.S., because Congress will give publishers infinitely wrong copyrights in any case.

      It amazes me how little the laws matter. Anyone can circumvent CD protection with a bit of research. It's illegal, sure, but it's easy.

    9. Re:This may sound stupid but.... by Dashing+Leech · · Score: 2, Interesting
      "Some guy in Topeka bought the new Britney Spears CD, so now we have the right to make copies of it." That's just not logical.

      Actually, that is exactly the law in Canada right now. The guy in Topeka is not allowed to make a copy and give it to me (distribution), but I can borrow the CD and make a copy, or I can copy a copy of his CD (including MP3s). So it's legal for me download.

      In fact, it does make (some) logical sense. This law was made to recognize the common act of making mixed tapes/CDs and sharing among friends. It is a recognition that sharing is not inherently immoral. (In fact, saying that sharing is immoral seems more illogical.) Sharing is something that should be encouraged. On the other hand, music creators need to make a living, so to (supposedly) compensate them, we pay a levy on recordable media.

      This isn't a black & white issue. It's definitely a shade of grey.

  2. Is it illegal? by patdabiker · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Is it illegal to download [and not share] the mp3's of an album if you own that album?

    1. Re:Is it illegal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I don't know about the rest of the EU, but in the UK at least it's actually illegal to make your own copies (MP3 or otherwise) of albums you own, even if you don't share them with anyone.

    2. Re:Is it illegal? by arkhan_jg · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Technically, you're right, in that 'media-shifting' or otherwise private copying is not included amongst our enumerated fair dealing rights, only 'time-shifting' for later use.

      That said, transient or otherwise ephemeral copies which are required to actually use the content you're purchased are allowed, so it's arguable that in order to listen to the music on the device of your choice, in this case an iriver, you need to make a transient copy to mp3 in order to actually use the product, and thus are within your rights.

      Making a CD-CD copy to stick in your car, so it doesn't matter if it gets scratched is definitely illegal though. CD-tape you might get away with under the law though...

      I suspect though, the music companies are much happier corrupting CD's away from the red book standard, thus removing our ability to listen to said CD in whatever device we like, when we like - this back door method is far simpler for them than trying to prosecute the hardware companies in a court case they'd likely lose (see tape record buttons on radios and VCR's). Oh, and DRM'ing legal downloads to the hilt while they're at it.

      Fortunately on the paranoia side, copyright infringement is primarily a civil matter, (you need to be in the big leagues before they hit you with criminal penalties) thus the CPS wouldn't prosecute you, the BPI (UK equivalent of the RIAA) would have to. Avoiding your taxes is a much more serious offence in the eyes of HMGov... until the newest bit of euro legislation gets drafted for the UK, anyway, at which point it doesn't matter if you're al copone or his neighbour's little daughter downloading britney, you can be hit with same criminal penalties, search and seizure, etc etc.

      --
      Remember kids, it's all fun and games until someone commits wholesale galactic genocide.
  3. I couldn't live without by adamgreenfield · · Score: 1, Interesting

    ... my music. It keeps me sane on a daily basis. Why do people like iTunes and Napster restrict service like that? Isn't the general idea to market to as many people as you can. Are the anti-copyright laws in Europe that incompadable with the ones here in the US?

    I know we've got a few over-bearing laws here, but I'm sure other copyright protections are more than sufficent to cover this sort of thing.

    --
    -Adam C. Greenfield
  4. I gave up and ripped my CDs by PktLoss · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I have the same issue living in Canada, Puretracks has a small selection, but I haven't found anything I want there yet, and my discman only plays MP3s not WMV.

    I gave up and resorted to buying CDs, ripping them, then burning them. Most CD ripping software seems to be capable of working around the 'copy protection' on the CDs I have had experiance with. Its horrible because I live in tiny student housing and generally end up leaving the jewel cases and discs at my parents to save space and clutter.

    The music industry's grim determination to stop me from listening to music I have paid for has yet to cease amazing me.

    --
    paul reinheimer
    1. Re:I gave up and ripped my CDs by SheldonYoung · · Score: 4, Interesting
      If you live in Canada this is a non-issue for you as you can download freely from almost any source. This is due to the levy paid on blank media and the sanity of the Canadian Copyright Board.

      From http://neil.eton.ca/copylevy.shtml:
      However, unless the legislation is changed or the courts interpret matters differently, it appears that making a private copy for your own use of a musical work downloaded in any manner from the internet is not an infringement of copyright. In their decision, the Copyright Board states:

      The regime does not address the source of the material copied. There is no requirement in Part VIII that the source copy be a non-infringing copy. Hence, it is not relevant whether the source of the track is a pre-owned recording, a borrowed CD, or a track downloaded from the Internet.
      The more complex answer to the question posed above is you cannot post a song on the internet in any manner, but you can make a private copy of any songs you find on the net.

  5. Record off the radio... by LostCluster · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Last I checked, recording songs that are played off the radio is still fair use. Just hook any headset radio to the Line-in port of your sound card...

    1. Re:Record off the radio... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Actually in the US this is only legal if you record onto a storage device that has had the "RIAA tax" paid, which currently are only analog media devices. So, it's legal to record the radio onto a cassette tape, but not to record it as an mp3 onto a hard drive.

      Now.... you could put an mp3 on a cassette *as data*. People used to use cassettes as data disks in the olden days of computing (large storage space, low cost). I have no clue how this would be interpreted under the current laws. It would be a pretty hilarious hack, actually.

  6. Fuck Em by Wehesheit · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Buy the cd and download the unrestricted mp3's. Or just donate directly to the artist if you can, or buy some merchandise from their website. I was pissed when I bought my 10GB iPod and was unable to use iTunes in Canada.

    --
    This P.I.G. will walk on the water, This P.I.G. will walk on the sea, This P.I.G. will walk whereever he wants.
  7. hmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    especially with the new EU resolution, this is an interesting prediicament..... luckily in canada i'm allowed (by law) to DL music

  8. Legal Issues by PktLoss · · Score: 2, Interesting

    To be honest, I would love to see a case where someone downloaded MP3s for CDs they owned end up in a non-american court (and hense free from the majority of direct RIAA lobying). Once you own the CD, fair use should give you the right to listening to it on your PC, discman, or other portable electronics, and as such you should be able to legally use whatever means are at your disposal.

    Hopefully the precedent setting case would come down on the side of the consumet.

    --
    paul reinheimer
  9. Get a decent ripper by tuxlove · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Any decent CD ROM drive, paired with one of very many good ripper applications, can rip the CD regardless of any copy protection scheme. Just get yourself a good ripper and enjoy your music. The music labels want you to believe their copy protection schemes are more than just FUD, but they're not. They're useless and easily cirumvented by anyone willing to spend just a little time getting their environment optimized.

    1. Re:Get a decent ripper by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Yep... if you can hear it thru your computer's cd-rom drive, you can rip it digitally... no matter what the copy-protection scheme is or ever will be.

  10. Try Magnatune by kfishy · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Magnatune is a record company that offer music licensed in the Creative Commons license. You are able to hear the music before you buy.

    Granted, it doesn't have Britney Spears or Moby, but you may be surprised at what you can find there.

  11. Re:Don't feel guilty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Is it illegal in the same way that murder is illegal? Federal or civil? Will the police raid your home and take you away like they would a murderer? Or is it up to the copyright owner to sue you first?

    Don't feel guilty they can afford it.

  12. Buy iTunes Gift Certificates! by tcgwebs · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I live in the U.S. and I sell gift certificates to the iTunes Music Store at a small premium. Please e-mail me at sales at rossonwebs dot com if you're interested. Most of my sales come from European countries, and the gift certificates work like a charm on iTunes. It's not a TOS violation either, believe me, I have checked and rechecked.

    --
    Domain name registration for $8.79 per year
    879domains.co
  13. innocent until caught by plams · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If it wasn't for services like Soulseek and Suprnova I probably wouldn't know half of the good music I know now. My policy is to download the music, evaluate it, and buy it if it's something I want to keep. Since the music I listen to rarely get any air time on the radio, I don't have much choice.. short of blindly wasting money on random CD's. And no, I don't believe that 30 second 32kbps/22khz mp3 previews does music any justice.

    So well, it sucks to break the law, but as long as you can avoid getting prosecuted I believe the moral question is up to yourself: "Is what I'm doing wrong?". I mean, in my case the record industry is actually getting more money from me because I've got access to fileshare networks.

    Eventually, the record industry will have to move with the flow.. I believe we'll see many more "iTunes sites" in the future.

  14. downloading no more illegal than ripping by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Downloading music via file sharing, if you own that exact track in CD form, is no different than ripping it from your CD onto your computer. Either method is to obtain a copy of your music in another format, the only difference is RIAA-clones can detect it. The question is wether you are legally allowed to own your CD-bought music in another format, something not nearly as clear as it should be.

    In reality though, it doesnt matter anyway. If you own the CD, you are never going to be sued for downloading the same music in MP3 form.

    FWIW, people in the UK can use "My Coke Music". I have no idea if it is available for people in Germany.

  15. Weblisten by paugq · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It's in Spain, it's legal and their site is both in English and in Spanish: Weblisten.

  16. Simple: Use iRATE by metal_priest · · Score: 2, Interesting

    iRATE gets you free & legal mp3s without disriminating in regards to your location in the world. It also promotes the little guys and tries to save the world from sucky radio.

  17. Re:www.allofmp3.com by infolib · · Score: 2, Interesting

    At this conference I heard a lawyer call it "semi-legal". I suspect it's just cause no one paid him to give a firm opinion.

    As far as I'm concerned, I already downloaded Robbie Williams' "Escapology". Picked "256kbit .ogg" - works like a charm. I think Robbie should get more than the microcent or so he got of the 50 cent I paid - but then again I don't really feel sorry. I was in the record store, had the record in my hand - and then I saw the copy protection label. If I can't really own what I buy it's not worth it in any way. Now if only there was some allofmp3-style thing in Denmark - with fair compensation to the artists - I'd be their customer in a heartbeat. As it is, I'm stuck waiting for certain executives to retrieve their heads from certain orifices.

    --
    Any sufficiently advanced libertarian utopia is indistinguishable from government.
  18. Re:I use the following.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    >I have serious doubts that they're ever fairly compensated by RIAA. What does the price have to do with it?

    Perhaps he should have said "Do you think the artists are being compensated at all at 10 cents a song". I seriously doubt they see a single penny of that dime, but I know the RIAA does give them at least some money from each sale (or perhaps simply a bulk price for the entire album, it depends on their publishing deal).

    Personally, I'm a game developer, and games has a piracy problem similar to music, in that people are making illegal copies of my works all the time. I never see any money from those illegal copies (even if you pay someone 10 cents or $1 for a burned CD of the copy), and it hurts the sales numbers from the games I make. If those sales numbers are low, not only do I see lower compensation from the game overall, but I'll also have a harder time convincing a publisher to put out the next game I make - so not only am I not making any money, but I won't be able to make any money in the future, either. All because someone wanted to 'stick it to the man' or thought that 'the industry wasn't giving me what I deserved for my work', so they decided to steal it.

  19. Pre-paid ITMS cards should do the trick by mrmez · · Score: 2, Interesting

    if you have friends in the US, you could ask them to purchase cards - or an allowance - for you. This is quite possibly what the fellow suggesting you email him will offer to do. I should think it's legal - there's no law I know of preventing me from buying a CD and sending it to you.

  20. Re:www.allofmp3.com by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The problem is that you're not importing them. Importation is a form of distribution, but that would require the copy to already exist.

    When you're downloading, you're creating a new copy on the downloader's end. This is a form of reproduction, not distribution (though the uploader making it available is distribution).

    Since the reproduction is likely happening within the US, Russian copyright holders don't have authority to permit it.

    RIAA may have a difficult time doing anything about this, but that doesn't make it legal.

    --
    -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
  21. Re:I use the following.... by MyFourthAccount · · Score: 3, Interesting

    They do though, so no using mp3search.ru is not legal. Stop fooling yourself into thinking it is.

    Interesting thing: I've just spent the last hour tooling around on mp3search.ru. Spent 20 bucks to download a bunch of old stuff that I hadn't heard for years or never heard before.

    Guess what? I just realized I have to go out and buy the original CDs for the stuff I downloaded, because I want higher quality.

    Why does it take a 'dubious' Russian website to accomplish this?

    I think it's safe to say that I have no respect for the RIAA. Nor do I for lazy artists that bitch about their music being 'stolen' after selling their sole to the devil because they had $$ signs in their eyes.

    Legal or not, we are at a state of flux and as far as I am concerned, the RIAA can go fuck themselves. When all this is sorted THEN we'll see what's illegal and what's not.

  22. The Fitehouse General Public Music License by MichaelCrawford · · Score: 2, Interesting
    The band Fitehouse recently released an EP called The Bomb.

    Both tracks are available for free download. Furthermore, The Bomb's first track, Running Scared is released under the new Fitehouse General Public Music License, which goes further than the Creative Commons or EFF Open Audio Licenses in that it requires the release of the studio master tracks from which a piece of music is composed: also on The Bomb's download piece are uncompressed WAV files with the raw, unmixed audio of each of the instrumental and vocal parts.

    So if you like, you could record yourself singing and mix it with the other tracks from Running Scared.

    --
    Request your free CD of my piano music.
  23. Borrow a CD and copy it, its legal in Canada by Shiifty · · Score: 3, Interesting
    In Canada, I can borrow a CD (from a friend or the library), copy it and return the CD, and keep the copy for myself. This is legal and is what we pay levy fees for. However, you cannot have someone else copy it for you, and you cannot copy a copy. You must make the copy yourself from an original.

    Other countries have a similar law in place, you should check it out.

  24. I can't speak for Slashdot, by DeVilla · · Score: 2, Interesting

    But I think it's obvious. They don't want your business. Mine either. So I don't buy from them. I concentrate on dealing with more ethical companies that demonstrate that they do want my business. To keep buying from the music cartel when in your position does not make you a consumer or even a fan. It makes you an abused junky.