A Family IT/Tech Business??

adzoox writes "As I have just hired on my girlfriend to help out with some secretarial work in my Apple consulting, sales, and technical service business, and considering having my brother work with me soon; I'd like to know what the /. readers think about family in the 'Tech Workplace.' Obviously things aren't hectic like a restaurant, but my father and friends have all warned me against mixing business and pleasure and family. Do any of you have successful family owned IT businesses, eBay businesses, or programming/software consulting engineering businesses and what's been or secret to success? If not successful what unique problems did you encounter? How can I make it successful? And most importantly how do you handle authority (tardiness, work ethic, and workplace codes) with a girlfriend?"

Comments

Careful planning

[BWJones]

Oh, dude. You are opening yourself up to all sorts of abuse from the Slashdot crowd, but I will try and make some constructive comments to head off any noise.

I have worked in the past with family on a couple of businesses ranging from molecular modeling and pharmacologic development to health care and real estate and I can tell you sometimes it works and sometimes it does not. You will simply have to find out by jumping in, but make sure that everybody understands that running your own business is hard work. Just in case you did not get that: Running your own business is hard work. Sorry to repeat myself, but I have seen the attitude more than once of people saying "Hey, I will start my own business and it will be cool. I can set my own hours, etc...etc...etc...", but many folks have no idea how complicated or difficult it can be. Beyond your knowledge of the work involved, everybody else in a small start up or small company will have to have strong work ethics, some luck and some insight into the market you are looking at working in. Get yourself a good CPA to do quarterly taxes, have regularly scheduled (but short and concise) status update meetings, and decide before you go in, which people are going to accept which responsibilities. Also, be aware that starting your own business can occupy all aspects of your life including your moment to moment thoughts and difficulties can arise if everybody involved in the early stages does not have the same vision.

Also, I don't know what your relationship is with your girlfriend, but both of you need to establish right from the start whether or not she is an employee or a partner, and you need to decide for your relationship what the future (if any) holds in terms of marriage. Even long term live-in relationships can have "common-law" implications, so if the business takes off, but your relationship does not, how are you going to deal with that? It might also be prudent to establish early on what the investment shares are as well. Who "owns" the business? Is your brother going to be a partner or employee?

Re:Careful planning

[LostCluster]

If you marry her without a prenup, she will suddenly get ownership of half of the business. If that's okay with you, then you really don't have a problem. However, if that scares you at all, you need to make it clear that she's being paid as an employee and that's all she's getting out of the company.

However, on the converse, if you make it clear to her that she's getting an ownership interest in the company, she'll have more interest in the quality of the work, and she might be willing to accept lower wages today for the good of the company in the future... since company profits and her own spending money will be very closely related.

Re:Careful planning

[bbsguru]

I echo everything in that reply, and add this. Planning, yes. Also a really devoted and scrupulously honest Attorney. (no it's not an oxymoron).

No matter what employees you need to have, g/f's and family change the dynamic.
I have at times employed my mother, my daughter, my brother-in-law, and a couple of others whose relationship was not so easy to define. The problems you foresee are real. The ones you don't expect are deadly.

The best person for the job is the one you must have. Carrying relationship baggage around can be more than many businesses can handle, no matter how good the relationship might be.
The always assumed reason for decisions can be hard on your dealings with other employees. Customers may be reluctant to criticize the work of someone 'in the family'. Most of all, you may be easier (or harder) on someone because of the relationship.

The most important reason not to have family in the workplace is this. Home should be a refuge from the world, at least the work-world. Keep your work life separate from your family life, and you will find it easier to lave the problems of the day behind when it's time to go home. Bring family into the workplace, and the work day never ends.

I know, we're all fanatics about our work, it's what we love to do, etc. etc. etc.
Bull. If you don't provide yourself with a life outside of work, what are you working for?

Re:Careful planning

[iocat]

I'd actually argue that you *don't* want to have to draw clear lines about whether or not she's an employee or partner, friend or whatever. Here's why: if there's even an INKLING in your mind that things might get messed up down the road, and that you better draw clear lines right away, just forget the entire thing. Unless she's already your real 'partner' in everything you do, don't bother trying to work with her too.

Re:Careful planning

[sakusha]

You have to learn to let go. I remember reading an interview with the head of a courier company. He started all by himself, the sole employee, and built up a big clientele. He prided himself for never ever losing a single package, and he did his utmost to always deliver on time. But as his clientele grew, he had to hire more couriers. And suddenly, the new employees occasionally lost packages and were behind schedule. He finally came to the conclusion that nobody would ever be as conscientious at the job as he was, and he had to take human nature into account, and built procedures to allow for human error. And most of all, he had to learn to let go of his tendency to be a control freak.

Re:Careful planning

[C10H14N2]

My family ran a business with 12 non-family employees for 25 years. Along the way, extended family members (cousins/nieces etc.) and friends came on. BAD NEWS. Office politics happen in all businesses. When you mix outside emotions and alliances, you risk turning your livelihood into a Shakespearian tragedy. The conflicting interests can destroy not only your business, but every aspect of your life. Most people come home from work and can leave business at the office. You can't do that when your coworkers come home with you. In addition to speaking to a lawyer, speak with a psychologist--seriously. Proceed with extreme caution.

Plan on getting her a ring...

[LostCluster]

The thing about working with your girlfriend is that she's not yet your wife. If the relationship fails, you're not going to just lose her love but also her usefulness as an employee... if you're ready to commit to depending on her on a business level, there should be a ring on her finger. You can never underestimate the importance of the front line secretary, she'll be first person most of your customers deal with... everything she does will reflect on you and your company.

Your brother, by comparision, can't turn on you as easily. Afterall, if there's ever a problem your parents will end up serving as a binding arbitration process. He might walk away from you, but he's never going to seriously cause problems on the way out like an ex might.

Re:Plan on getting her a ring...

[ScooterBill]

"he's never going to seriously cause problems on the way out like an ex might"

Ha! Don't count on it. Family members can be far more treacherous than business partners who just want to move on. There's usually lot's of old baggage in families.

M

Must have separate roles

[fembots]

In my experience, it is important to have clearly defined, separate roles for each person, so that there will never be overlapping in terms of who does what.

One problem I had with family members is, it's actually more difficult to void your opinion because you still have a "outside" relationship with that person beyond work.

So the best way is to do different things in the business, as long as everybody has a common goal/mission.

cooperative venture

[alan_d_post]

You all need to go into this on equal footing, or the power relationships of
your little company will screw up the personal relationships you had with these
people.

Get ready..

[Awptimus Prime]

Get ready to see what you and your family's social skills are made of.

If you all enjoy being around each other and are not the typical types who burn bridges or act like hicks, then everything should work out fine.

Personally, my family and I would never be able to work together due to different beliefs and views on just about everything. Combine that with being stubborn and you have a powder keg waiting to go off.

NO

[lukewarmfusion]

Never work with friends or family. There are, of course, some exceptions.

Will you have the guts to fire your girlfriend if it comes to that? Or will you simply keep paying her? How about your brother? Unless you're able to look your family or friends in the face as a boss/employee relationship, DON'T.

Think of all the bosses you've had. Remember the really bad ones? Do you want that position?

Go for it -- with caveats

[gregwbrooks]

There are so many hurdles to starting a business that worrying about whether you can tell your employee to "shut the fsck up and get back to work" without having to hear about it over dinner that night. Having said that, look around in your community: In other cultures (Indian, east Asian, etc.) it's very, very common for a single family or multiple families to band together and make a business work. Some suggestions:

• Employees, not partners. Unless you need the equity, it's a lot easier to get out of employment arrangements that go south than out of partnerships.
• Maybe you treat them nicer than employees, but treat the *paperwork* just the same. Everyone gets an offer letter that spells out salary, benefits, hours, expectations, etc. Everyone gets reviews. Everyone has to document their time. Is it likely someone will sue you? No, but it *is* likely that disagreements will turn nasty if things aren't down on paper.
• If you can grow your way into it, have someone outside the family in a management role. Things go better if there's someone unrelated in the middle.
• Ask yourself: Do you really need the help? This is true whether you're hiring family or Joe Techie off the street. Employees are a steady expense in a world of uncertain cash flow -- make sure you're stretched *damned* thin before you commit to the expense.

Good luck! Oh, and noodle around my weblog for advice on business development and promoting your business.

It all depends

[mgeneral]

In general, I am against mixing family and business. I am a partner in a network computing consultancy. For one, I never sell or do work for family and friends. Its not the fact that they always want the "family-discount-plan", so much as the implied lifetime warranty that pursues.

In regards to working with family, I've seen it fail more times than it works. Having seen my wife work for a friend, and the subsequently starting her own business and hiring other friends...I've seen many relationships too easily soured by the friendship-employment misunderstandings.

Anyhow, with that said, I'm a partner in a company, 14 years, with my brother and mother. Now the key to our success is that we each brought unique talents. My brother is business sales and marketing, while my mother is business finance and accounting...me? of'course, I'm technical...why else would I be on /.

So my secret, if I had one...but I don't, because I openly share it, is don't mix if you bring similar skills. I think unique skills are required...then the family factor adds some value to it.
-mgeneral

Consult a lawyer if there could be $$ at stake

[siliconbunny]

I've worked with family in a small programming enterprise on the side. It all worked well because we have a good work ethic (ie no disputes over not pulling weight), and because we respected each other's expertise: I did the coding and documentation, and no-one messed with it. But I didn't do anything with the marketing or management unless I was asked to help. Otherwise, clash of territory can == clash of egos == friction == personal fallings out.

Your enterprise currently sounds like this, and if it's just employment/contracting your relatives, and not equity in the business, there's probably less at stake. Be fair, be impersonal (ie no "you're fired because you beat up on me in the 8th grade") and treat them like you would any other worker. If it comes to a close call, be prepared to have to work out whether the business or the person is more important to you, and sacrifice the other.

However, if there's any question that equity is or might be involved, then anything more than a trivial enterprise needs to be set up right from the start. Otherwise, there is a very good chance of a falling out, and if there aren't procedures in place to handle it, it can get very messy -- not just acrimonious, but litigious to a point where the business itself cannot operate and falls apart, and everyone scrabbles over the still-twitching corpse. Especially if someone senses $$$$ in it for them...

I'm a lawyer now, and it may sound self-serving, but if there's any chance your relatives might work for any serious amount of time, or this business might make a serious amount of money, get a lawyer to settle the basics, in a binding form. Now, *before* there may be big money at stake, and before any disagreements have arisen. Put in place a process to deal with disputes (eg one of you wants to expand, the other wants to consolidate). Put in place a mechanism to handle what happens if one person wants out, or if you all want to go your separate ways. Do they just get cash, or do they get to take a chunk of your assets out too?

If it's just employment, you may feel that even asking for an employment (or consulting/freelancing) contract might be considered offensive. But you may want to check with a lawyer about ownership of IP created by your brother or girlfriend, though, if that's relevant...

and after that

[StevenHallman76]

thinking slightly more long term.. let's say your business goes really well and you decide to hire someone else, someone not in the family. It puts that new person in a very akward position because they have to deal with typical office stress with the added dynamic that everyone else in the company is in the boss' family. not cool.

Only works as a partnership

[benwaggoner]

My wife and I have run a home-based consulting business together for three years now. The business is going quite well. I have a few suggestions that seem to make a difference.

First, it isn't going to work to have your significant other as an employee. She'll need to be a partner. A power inequality in the business side isn't going to work well with what should be an equitable relationship otherwise. This doesn't mean that everything has to be done by consensus - each party can have their area of responsibility (for our company, my wife does the books and infrastructure, and I do the sales and actual consulting. We supervise marketing jointly, since it isn't something either of us is that strong in).

If your SO is really an employee, how are you going to be able to negotiate a raise, or vacation time, or whatever? You won't be able to treat her "just like an employee" at work and then not elsewhere, and even if you could, you wouldn't want to.

Also, if you work and live together, you'll need to make sure to get some time apart in your lives. It can be rather hermetic to spend all day with the same person in the same place. This has gotten a lot more complex for us now that we have kids.

Setting your own hours

[mdfst13]

Just agreeing with the parent post. When you own your own business, you are not your own boss and you do not set your hours: your customers are and do. At best, you can choose when you will work your extra hours and what customers to pursue. However, you will find that you can't really turn away customers, just determine which to actively pursue (going door to door allows you to determine which doors, etc.).

One has *more* bosses when one owns a business, as all the customers can tell you what to do. At least when you work for someone, only that person determines your salary. On the bright side, you do have more flexibility when one of your "bosses" fires you, as you have others to pick up the slack. However, if that happens too much, you won't be able to find new customers.

Re:My experience

[LostCluster]

There is the problem, you entered into the deal without a clear meeting of the minds as to how you would be compensated. There needs to be a deal as to what work units are going to be counted, and what the value per work unit was going to be.

That kind of heroic technical effort should be admired and respected... when it's not, well, the business could just plain colapse.

You are DOOMED!

[deacon]

I have seen the inside of several "Family" businesses.

They all share a common trait. The "Family" partners all hate each other with a passion which glows cobalt blue in the dark.

What's even worse, none of the "Family" members feel they can leave to do something else, because it is "Their" business. So they are stuck with people ("Family"!) they have come to despise, hate, and ridicule to other employees (that would be me in this case).

In the long run, it would be less painful, less expensive, and more productive to just mangle your genetalia with some sort of pinching/cutting instrument than to do what you are doing.

I realize that you will not believe me, and that I shall be modded down as a troll for pointing all this out, but 10 years from now, when you and your GF et. al. are at each others throats, you will think back and say to yourself:

That Deacon person, he saw all this before!

I leave you with this link, which I am too lazy/inept to embed.

You will have to remove the extra space after you use leftbutton to copy and middle button to paste in the url bar.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Diction ary&va=cassandra&x=0&y=0

Here's a test

[jayhawk88]

Think back to the day you hated your girlfriend the most. The one day that, for whatever reason, you just couldn't hardly stand to be around her, and could barely control your tounge enough to not say something you would regret forever. A day where you seriously wondered whether she was really the one for you, and had doubts about your relationship.

Now think about what that day would have been like if you would have had to spend an extra 8 hours with her.

Doing something like this is certainly possible depending on the couple, but the real question is, why would you risk your relationship in this way? Hiring your brother, sister, parents or 3rd uncle twice removed is easier, because you (presumably) don't have to go home with these people at the end of the day. Even hiring your wife is better, as you're legally obligated to stay with her, and (also presumably) have already decided that your love for her is stronger than any argument.

But hiring your girlfriend is just asking for trouble. Not be be condescending, but your girlfriend can be a secretary anywhere. I understand that essentially telling your girlfriend "No I don't want to hire you" is going to be a delicate situation to say the least, but you need to find a way to nip this in the bud.

Re:Hiring Family Members

[TykeClone]

Just make sure that you have them do some real work - something, anything - otherwise it will not be deductible to the business.

sexual harassment

[pohzer]

I don't see this having been mentioned yet -- so here goes.

If your gf is hired by you, then you have a supervisory position over her. If by chance there is intimacy in the relationship (at work or away from work) you have big problems. Should she desire to (!) she can basically control you and your business, since in the eyes of the law everything you do may be part of a pattern of harassment. Fire her and it's because she didn't deliver what you wanted. No raise or raise not big enough? Must be because of that special extra relationship -- and your unfairly trying to coerce her. Give a raise to someone else? Must be because of that special relationship... just think about how it would be played out if you ever went to court for divorce!

Unfortunately many times the harassment extends to volunteers as well. And travel? It's been ruled that hotels, motels, bars, etc are all extensons of the "office" when on business travel.

Consider this *very* carefully. Perhaps you can make her YOUR supervisor, give yourself the stock/control, and enjoy the flip side of the situation (everything she does can be viewed as harassment against you).

Bad Practice

[nurb432]

Never work with/for relatives.. Or friends.

Its a good way to kill both relationships.

Agreed...

[sterno]

Read this guy's post again, he makes a very good point. Both you and your girlfriend are going to need to be able to seperate your work life from your home life. You both need to be very realistic about this or you are setting yourselves up for disaster in both the business and the relationship.

What are your cultural backgrounds?

[wytcld]

This may sound weird but ... what cultures are you each from? What is the prevalence of family-based businesses in the generations just before you? If you both happened to be Taiwanese, for instance ... well then family ties is the only way to do business, because the local cultural ethic is that then you don't screw other family members over with the sort of business practices which are standard when you aren't related. But if you are Japanese, the ethical bond between fellow workers doesn't depend so much on blood family, but instead on recognition of each other as a sort of artificial family ... so bringing real family ties into it would just muddle things. As a result, Taiwan has thousands of family firms where Japan has a few large keiretsu. Yet both cultures end up conducting very successful business.

Or perhaps you're both Sicilian, or Jewish, or WASP, or.... The point is, do you share between yourselves common cultural wisdom on a business within the family, so that you'll know what each other is expecting and what you can expect of them? And if it's a cross-cultural thing, are your family-business models compatible?

A-freaking-men!

[TrentC]

As a person who is finally seeing the end of the tunnel to an unhappy 6-year "marriage" to a corporation a couple of friends and I formed, let me tell you...

1. If any one in your corporation or business insists that you don't need documentation, meeting notes, or contracts, they're either completely naive or planning to screw you over at some point.
2. Anything to do with money must be discussed, agreed upon, and enforced. All you need is one of your partners to bleed a little from the company here or there ("I'll put this DVD player on the corporate credit card, no one will care...") to seriously affect your bottom line, not to mention causing problems when it comes time to do the books.
3. A corporation is like a marriage; both need real work and a serious commitment if they're going to succeed. If anyone thinks they can just "phone it in" or consider themselves the "idea man", the other partners need to knock some sense into him, and fast.
4. I would seriously reconsider bringing relatives or love interests into the business. My father, who ran his two of his own businesses for 25 and 30 years, told me "never go into business with someone you want to remain friends with." And if your romantic relationship goes sour, it will definitely impact the day-to-day business (and you want to be really careful if it comes to terminating her employment).

Jay (=

Been there, done that... it _can_ be great!

[code-dweller]

You will probably get a lot of grief from folks about doing this. I know I do... but so far, I've been quite happy and so have my friends/family.

I've seen this work really well and really badly. There are some tricks to it, and it definitely has to be the right group of enlightened, well rounded, reasonably self-actualized people to make it work. Dysfunctional families need not apply!

Right now I have my brother, my wife, and my oldest son all working with me and it couldn't be better. We all get along, we all do our jobs, and we are having a great time doing it... Even better, we have a level of trust and companionship and sensitivity that goes far beyond what people ever expect to see in even the best "conventional" office setting. One nice thing that goes along with this is that as a team we out produce every "conventional" group we come up against.

A couple of the "tricks" that seem to make this work (there are really too many to list):

• You must agree on ethics and business practices. If you don't then there will be constant conflict.
• You must be very clear on responsibilities and on the chain of command. This can work even in "flat" organizations (my favorite) but it must be in place.
• Take care to manage expectations carefully. It is much easier for family members to make assumptions about what others will or should take responsibility for, or what they will do as a "favor". If your group has trouble with this in the family unit then you will never make it working together - or worse - you will and it will be a living hell. This one is particularly dangerous and easy to slip into! I can't over state it. Be particularly careful of your own expectations - you NEVER want to find yourself in the position of taking advantage - even a little bit - even if the target of this advantage is begging to have you do it! Keep things fair and well in check. Ask yourself - if my xyz came home from another job and told me this story would I still think it was fair?
• You must trust eachother implicitly and you must have a completely "open book" policy. If you find yourself in a position where you need to hide information from someone it is time to get them out.
• You must have similar goals and thick skins. Remember that everyone is in this together.
• You must be constantly watching out for any signs of blame casting or other divisive behaviors. If you see it, it is time to settle it and remind everyone that this can't be allowed. It's no different than any tight knit team - but it can be a bit more explosive and a bit more dangerous.
• Don't hire family or friends that aren't up to the job. If there is a better candidate elsewhere then they should get the job. There is no room for entitlements! Be sure your other employees know this too - by demonstrating it regularly.
• Be extremely mindful of non-family employees and what they percieve. You will be surprized what seemingly happy employees are thinking that they won't tell you - especially where working family members are concerned. You must be very clear to every employee that is a family member - they are responsible for earning the trust and respect of every other person around them and they must really focus on this - it doesn't happen automatically. They should think of this as an extra job. The other employees around them should feel absolutely certain at all times that the family member has their position because they are the best one for the job - not becuase of any kind of favoritism. It helps (though this sounds like a contradiction) if the family members work longer hours and take on tough assignments more readily than normal employees do. This helps to demonstrate a level of effort and committment that will put the regular employee(s) at ease about what they will always view as a special position. There's no way to keep them from viewing things that way - but you can make sure they feel the special position is justifiable.

Those are some of the hilights -

Seems like the rough spots might be really rough

[0x0d0a]

I dunno...this might be exceptionally nice when it's working nicely, but it seems like the times when you have problems are *really* going to suck.

Part of a boss's duty are being an asshole when necessary. Sometimes you need to lay down the law ("No, you can't have Monday off -- we absolutely need someone and we're shorthanded."). That's going to be *rough* if you're talkign to a gf.

Second of all, there's some point in most relationships (especially a gf rather than a wife) where your gf is going to be pissed off at you. Most people cool off at work or away from the other person. You're going to be throwing yourselves together and forcing yourselves together every day, without providing a mechanism for either of you to escape.

Third of all, there are some times when most *employees* get pissed off at or frusterated with their boss. Dilbert is popular for a reason. Do you want your girlfriend to be pissed off at you at home because you let go a friend of hers at work?

Fourth of all, this creates a tough power role problem. In contemporary society, the gf/wife generally has a much closer degree of power to the guy than a boss/worker does. Can you really "change roles" at work and home?

Fifth of all, percieved favoritism from other employees can, I imagine, be bad for a workplace environment. ("Oh, she doesn't have to do *anything* at work because she fucks the boss.") Every tiny percieved favor could be built up.

Sixth of all, the reason your gf is your gf and not your wife is because you haven't yet absolutely decided that you are able to stand each other day in and day out. Why commit to doing so?

Seventh of all, people joke about having sex at work, but honestly the temptation is there, and it's liable to make people feel less comfortable.

Eighth of all, do you really want your girlfriend and you coworkers gossiping about you day in and day out? And what about with your brother thrown into the mix?

Ninth, can you really spend this much time with your gf? Yes, there are people that work at home (I was just reading Jeff Vogel's homepage) and constantly come in contact with a wife, say.

If it works, fine. My own father ran a small business in addition to his regular job in which our immediate family worked, but it was much more of a hobby, to help teach us the value of a dollar, than a primary income source. We had a blast...but we worked in more of a contractor-like manner -- if we did X, we got paid N dollars. I'm not sure that I'd want to work with family in a regular business. I also think that I wouldn't involve a gf if at all possible.

But, hey. Maybe it'll work out just fine, and you'll have a ball. There's an awful lot of companies that have anti-nepotism and anti-relationship rules, though. I suspect that it's founded on at least some grain of truth.

Cover your ass

[Vskye]

I was a former business partner with a "supposed" good friend of mine. I invested $20k in cash, and I was burned for $30k... not counting the $12k "estimated" back state taxes, that was the judgement against me. (living "way" out of state)

Rules: Always pay a CPA to do your books *every* month. Hold meetings, and keep track of ALL sales, especially shipping via second address situation. (i.e., charge card to second party stuff) Do NOT sign at the bank for being a CPO or whatever unless you're "TOTALLY" aware of everything. Yep, I got burned... big time, and now that previous asshole partner is sitting in prison for 20+ years, but I still got burned for around $45k.

Results of this: My credit is trashed, had to move out of state and introduce my family to a shelter for the first 2 months. (did get a job right away though, as a janitor vs a systems admin... but it pays the bills) And the other hardships you can just imagine, but it's working out.

Re:Don't Wait! Sign Now.

[LostCluster]

People think a contract is always a written document, but that's not really the definition. A contract happens any time two or more people agree to make an exchange goods, services, and/or money... it's just that the writen document is a very good thing ot have in situations where proof of a contract is needed.