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HP Starts Pushing Desktop Linux
iswm writes "HP has supposedly been selling MandrakeSoft Linux on the desktop for a while but has been so quiet about it that for all intents and purposes it's been a stealth operation. That's all about to change, with two new Linux desktops ready for rolling out by HP to the North American SMB market, both boxes to be sold with Mandrake Linux."
The article briefly mentions the fact that Mandrake is going to emerge from bankruptcy and pay off a 3.3 million euro debt. It's made me curious how much Mandrake made from the HP move.
Did HP just take mandrake with a few modifications and put it on, or was a licence purchased?
I question how much they've been selling cause Mandrake Soft surely wouldn't have had a close shave with bankruptcy if HP was throwing even a bit of its weight behind it.
-- "of course thats just my opinion, I could be wrong." --Dennis Miller
Doesn't MS cut their deal with PC manufacturers (i.e., Dell) when they sell Windows-less machines?
...but every deployment of linux in a large scale like this makes me smile and go "up yours SCO. one more victim to sue to drain your warchest"
So I'm petty. sue me. There's lots like me
What really surprises me is that companies seem to always introduce Linux to their low end computers (Walmart anyone?). A lot of high end Unix workstations are still being sold out there, why aren't more companies pushing a high end Linux workstation?
Don't mess with the bunny, outsideworld.org
You haven't used Mandrake, have you?
LOAD "SIG",8,1
I've found Mandrake to have the best visual user configuration programs out there. I do think it's the most user friendly. However, I also think it's less stable than some of the other distrobutions because of staying on the edge of new software releases. Obviously we don't want a Debian stable for the desktop user, but I think Mandrake is less stable than Windows XP.
The new users won't necessarily care how far the strides GNU/Linux has made, but realize that it's still not as easy to use as Windows and (IMO) not as stable as XP either!
In times like these, it is helpful to remember that there have always been times like these. - Paul Harvey
It's a shame that we keep going back to this. I think there is something here that we can all agree on. Linux - in order to reach true desktop user status - needs to be able to divorce itself in some virtual fashion from the command line. That is - what happens behind the scenes must stay there, and have a pretty GUI on top of every piece of Linux. Heck, my sister was even intimidated by the boot output on my Gentoo distro, simply because it was just lines and lines of text. (Yes, I am aware I can install a boot screen.)
Simply said, I cannot wait until linux has the ability to be a command-line only OS and at the same time, a GUI only OS. Mandrake comes damn close. So do some others. It's right around the corner now...
Excuse my speling.
Making The Bar Project
As much as I hate HP desktop machines ....... and believe me I HATE HP DESKTOPS........ this sounds like a really good thing. Maybe they decided that windows had a little too much overhead to run on their crapboxes so they switched to something that ran more efficiently. People will not have a problem with mandrake if they sit down and use it a little.
I have always found it funny when people, especially older people like my parents, shy away from non-windows systems because they think it is too hard to use, and then I have to show them how to use IE in windows and how to dial up (yeah, modem) to the internet.
Will Joe Six Pack looking for a cheap computer
Actually, a friend of mine installed mandrake 9.2 on his computer. He was asking me something over AIM, and I told him to open a terminal, and... He paused and said, "Uh, how do I get to a terminal?"
So see it is possible for an under average computer user to enjoy Linux on the desktop without needing a command line.
Exactly.
/. or care to understand why their MS Works (*shudder*) won't install on their new machine.
The trouble is that the people who buy HPs (low-end, cheap machines--the desktops, at least.) are not the people who read
I'm afraid that, in an attempt to lower their bottomeline they're forgetting their current market, but who knows? Maybe, with this, they'll get a new market. At the very least, it should be really interesting to see how other companies respond and how succeessful HP is in this venture.
-Grym
A distro that constantly gives back to the commmunity, provides free isos for download, concentrates on the desktop, and manages to make a profit? Who'd have thought?
With this corporate support, you can go out and buy a -supported- HP/Mandrake desktop. Which means you have Linux supported hardware if you don't like Mandrake.
All sorts of good things in the future...
This guy is way out there
they aren't really selling this to joe sixpack. they are targeting the average "all i wan't to do is surf the internet and check email or maybe play the card games" crowd. unless your a gamer or need some high end graphics editor, you pretty much fall into this crowd. Even the office worker that needs to write a document or a spread sheet can efficiently use mandrake will little more distress then changing from windows 98 to windows xp.
now in a controled enviroment were the hardware is fixed and your not running every server availible, there is little need to hit the command line any more in mandrake. they have almost eliminitated the need for it in most every day taskor task the "joe sixpoack" would be trying to do.
The primary audience for wide-adoption consists of your parents, your grand parents, your neighbors and friends who call you to fix their systems, children, etc.
For the home market, yes. There are, however, also the business and educational markets. There you have the same users, but they aren't necessarily doing all the install/config themselves.
And as long as there is anything that requires a text file to be edited in linux, Windows will remain king.
Mandrake's visual config is clunky, but it's comprehensive.
Google confirms: Ruby is the world's most beloved programm
Hah!
Sadly, I tend to agree. I'll never forget the fury I felt when I opened up my HP Pavilion a few years ago to find that they had combined the soundcard and modem onto one PCI card. This wouldn't have been so bad if they hadn't of put a fake PCI cover on the back of the computer to make them look like the two cards were separate, and THAT wouldn't have been so bad if they hadn't of put the cover for the fake "modem" right in the way of my only advertised "free" PCI slot.
It was very deceptive. And the only reason was so they could say "one free PCI slot" on the box, knowing damn well that not only was that PCI slot unusable but nearly nobody is going to open it up in the store to figure it out. So the net effect of this ridiculous situation wass was that I had to buy a new soundcard and modem (for a modem issue) and from then on, I tell every person who asks (and that's a lot, since I'm in a tech support position) to avoid HP like he plague.
-Grym
I heard Mandrake was one of the easiest distros to use in terms of configuration and drivers. Sp I gave 9.2 a shot after getting the isos on FTP sites.
THE GOOD
1. Much prettier interface. Everything from the icons to the taskbar, to Konqueror was top notch
2. All my hardware worked right away; sound card, mouse, keyboard, video card, with exception of my Palm Pilot cradle. I had some monitor problems as you'll read about as well.
3. Speedy as hell. You'd run a program and it would actually run within a reasonable time.
4. Internet worked right off the bat. Awesome.
5. The video player played a lot of files easy-peasy and I didn't have to fight with codecs.
6. I could still access my Windows folders. Another great benefit.
THE BAD
1. My mouse was uncontrollable. XP has both a speed and acceleration option that is great for mouse control. The mouse options box in Mandrake didn't have these options and it was frustrating to use the mouse, even after twinking these settings for an hour.
2. By far the biggest problem: Installing programs. In XP it's as easy as double clicking an icon and picking a directory. Not so with Linux. You can read my post on the newbie forums
here.
I have no idea where anything installs to, nor the best way to uninstall things. Inevitably I have to use the command line. Even as an X-MSDOS user I found it very frustrating.
3. Despite claims of stability, Konqeror crashed repeatedly. I can not say why.
4. After installing a program, finding where it installed to would be like pulling teeth. Making a shortcut would be even worse.
5. Installing the correct driver for my soundcard was very complicated, even after reading the INSTALL file. I eventually gave up.
6. I got a sync out of range message when I first tried running Mandrake. I left the monitor settings on default during install. This took hours to discover and fix.
But above all installing programs is a pain. This means, once the desktop is setup, Mandrake is a dream. But configuring it requires far too much expertise, at least it seems like it. I found myself posting time and time again on the forums. They were very helpful people but their answers often left me more confused than I started.
I'm not trying to flame, just provide constructive criticism and ways to help make Mandrake better. I wish them the best.
Corporations: your universal scapegoat for all society's ills.
Does that mean we will see iTunes ported to Linux? Bundle that with Linux, and you might drive sales of the HP iPod......
It's either on the beat or off the beat, it's that easy.
I moderate therefore I rule!
--
"And as long as there is anything that requires a text file to be edited in linux, Windows will remain king."
Granted in Windows there is a GUI for most everything, but I really don't see distributions like Mandrake lacking in that area. As for the "everything else," how does joe six-pack editing text files on Linux compare with joe six-pack editing the registry in Windows? Noobs don't edit the registry? If the popularity of the numerous "registry tweak" sites is any indication, I'd say they do.
Personally, I'd like to think with a little hand-holding, the joe six-pack using Windows could get into the habit of editing text files with little fuss. Hell, they might even start using the command-line once they realise how powerful it is and doens't require any squinting.
Strangely enough, that big stupid freight train continues to try to use its weight and speed to ram this one off the rails, but that usually has the weird effect of making this one actually speed up.
The big stupid train continues to try the same thing, each time expecting a different result from the one it always gets... oh well, it has always worked before now.
Someday, someone will explain to me why 'We' want linux to be adopted by the other 95% of the market. 'we' all lament what has happened to the Internet since 'they' finally found out about it (and thought it had just been invented). We pine about the good old days of the usenet, when it was like, useful.
Well, for one thing I'd sure like all those zombie spam/DDOS relays to be shut down - reducing Windows use to the more natural state of around 10% would be a great start to that end.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Ironic, isn't it? nVidia gets slammed so often for producing closed-source drivers, and now that ATi has followed suit, I actually specced out the last PC I built with a GeForce FX.
Now that both makers are forcing us to use binary drivers to get acceleration, at least nVidia has a better track record at updating drivers (and the open-source nv driver is further along too).
Yes, there are binary-only ATI drivers. No, I don't know how well they work.
Michel
Fedora Project Contribut
Just do what I do. Give up. An easy to use, powerful, stable, compatable desktop OS is, IMO impossible. Windows isn't easier to use as such, it's just less noisy in the intermediate stages of failure.
Be glad you know how to drop to the command line/edit the registry/whatever.
When someone might yell at me, it has to be OpenBSD.
Anyone know how those compare to the same machines pre-loaded with a Microsoft operating system? Are HP's linux customers getting the same price, higher or lower for buying Mandrake instead of Windows?
PJRC: Electronic Projects, 8051 Microcontroller Tools
"someone will explain to me why 'We' want linux to be adopted by the other 95% "
It increases my ability to service others computer needs for pay.
It decreases ANYONE'S ability to monopolize computer related enterprises.
Listen dork I manage 100's of linux desktops in a corporate environment. Not once has a single one of my users had to modify a config file and I would care to guess that most of them have alot less skill with a computer than you do. In a corporate environment Linux desktops are deployed thin client and in a totally controlled environment. If they want something installed or configured I do it. If they need a desktop icon I put it there. If they have to add a printer it is done for them.
A hp desktop preloaded for around 400 bucks sounds real good to me. I can buy them preloaded and modify one line in the inittab to hook to our desktop servers. This will save me the time of having to run a kickstart install to get a minimum x running on a client. Not to mention the boxes have a very nice warranty.
Got Code?
This is the same hp that is forcing it's workforce to take vacation during Christmas 2004 because the company will close for a week to save money.
That doesn't sound bad upfront, but it actually is. I used to work for HP and the fact that they made you take vacation for a whole week during certain holidays used to piss me off. There were times when I didn't have any vacation left, so I had to stay home without pay. To me thats saying: "you have vacation time, but we tell you when you can take it."
Anyway, the fact that HP is so self-centered and is investing in Linux is quite a good sign for its widespread adoption. They clearly feel there is a market and a profit to made in selling computers with Linux preinstalled.
Windows is a platform for running windows software, billions of dollars of windows software. The amount of savings to migrate to non-windows apps would have to astronomical for any CEO/CIO to take Linux seriously as a desktop replacement on the level you suggest.
MS Office isn't just software, its how businesses are run. Its a brand, a religion, and a cult all rolled into one. We all know it just consists of a word processor, spreadsheet, etc but to users its all they do - and ALL THEY KNOW. Heck, most users can barely use office, and its much easier to use and has a better help system than the alternatives.
My prediction: MS will be around for longer than we care to admit. Linux will continue to make inroads into the server room and will eventually be knocked back a bit when MS finally make a server anyone can administer and setup.
I'd like to think otherwise, but MS is like the IBM electric typewriter. Once its made x amount of inroads into corporate culture it may never leave.
On the bright side, there will be more technological revolutions and if these can help business then some other company might be able to replace MS (that is if MS doesnt buy the tech). Linux's eternal game of 'catch-up' isn't a revolution, its a cheap alternative that may not be worth buying into. Its like buying generic compared to a name brand.
I'd like to be an optimist and pretend there will be a healthy and free IT market, but the Justice Department let MS go. No multi-boot machines. Still the same old. Maybe the next administration and another lawsuit can change things, but right now MS is winning out loud. Hell, even their products are much better than they were three years ago and they are learning from their security mistakes.
Its been the year of the Linux desktop for years now. It seems it will always be 'right around the corner.' The only saving grace I see is nationalistic paranoia so that other countries' government agencies aren't neccessarily running windows in all departments in fear of CIA backdoors.
I'm sure this will be modded down the same way an atheist at a church gets shouted down.
nVidia's binary drivers smoke ATI's drivers in performance and general quality. I wasn't talking about the 'official' drivers, just that the Radeon 8500/9000/9100/9200 chips are the best chips that have open drivers. They are directly supported by XFree and Mesa (for GL/3D) without having to rely on closed-source binary-only drivers.
The problem is that current-generation Radeons (9500 and up) are almost a completely different architecture and nobody's really figured out how to do much with them yet...
my sig's at the bottom of the page.
I would just tremble at the thought of telling someone to type "kdesu kate" and having them browse to /etc and opeing up a file and make a chage with me.
I have had to tell a windows loser that they were out of luck if they could not come up with a boot disk so we could get back into their box in DOS mode and restore the registry, since they deleted HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE/Software or some other such nonsence, even though I asked them, are you sure the key name you are on is "x"
I would bet the system comes with a linux CD you could boot from and walk someone through with VI, instead of some lame ass recovery CD, that only gives them the option of nuking and paving their current system without saving any of their data.
I actually look forward to the day of providing lunux support.
As long as you can crap out windows with one keystroke in regedit, Windows is just not ready for the desktop.
vi +
Are you trying to start a distro war here? I happen to believe Mandrake is the best distro.
Hmmmm. With MandrakeSoft teaming up with HP, SuSE now owned by Novell, and Red Hat already being a publicly-traded corporation, I think we're seeing a new phase for companies with popular Linux distros being more tied to the corporate world and less to their "grass roots" origins. I guess it was only a matter of time.
I don't know of anyone alive who can rebuild the registry from scratch, Mirosoft does not even understand it well enough to be able to rebuild it.
That is not a good sign, when the people who make it, can not fix it.
vi +
After all, Walmart, started selling one striped down linux box for $200.00, an when Joe Sixpack saw it on their website and ordered it, they discovered it did not have windows on it and sent it back.
Oh! Wait a minute, after Walmart started selling that one system, they added several more linux bases systems, and they are still selling them over a year later.
I guess there is no chance of getting Joe sixpac of purchasing a linux system.
vi +
the reason why apple has manufacturer support is not because of its market share but because it is closed source and therefore has complete control over Mac OS X. the problem with linux is, ironically, because it's open source. there's too much freedom and therefore too many distributions, too many variations within those distributions. if a manufacturer wants to provide support for linux while staying closed source it's faced with so many hurdles. why would a manufacturer spend so much time and trouble extending its support to linux even if linux had a 10% market share?
The ad claims a $389 base price. When you go to the HP website and run the configurator, the cheapest you can make it is $436 (Linux, CD, 128MB, 40GB, no monitor, no floppy). Still not a bad price for a new PC.
I have always been a devoted HP fan, and when they bought Compaq, I was even happier as that was my second favourite company. Now with signing with Apple, Starbucks and Linux? I just don't know how much better they can get from there...
(congrats on the successful post iswm)