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Stretchy Wires to Create Artificial Nerves

Roland Piquepaille writes "Researchers from the Johns Hopkins University have built electronic circuits which exhibit a rubbery behavior. The flexible circuits, built by using gold springs, can stretch like rubber. And Nature says that these stretchy wires can be used to create artificial nerves bending inside our bodies or wearable electronics. 'Wiring like this could be woven into stretchy sports clothing and used to connect up sensors that monitor athletic performance. Rubbery electrodes made from biocompatible materials might be attached to a beating heart and used to sense impending problems.' This overview contains more details and references about these flexible wires."

42 of 138 comments (clear)

  1. How long until... by PornMaster · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...they're putting them into condoms to build up a database for "virtual sex"?

    1. Re:How long until... by WormholeFiend · · Score: 3, Interesting

      it wouldnt surprise me if the pr0n industry serves as a test-bed for this new technology, as it did with previous others.

      the parent said 'condoms'... but I thought 'dildos'.

      not that I know anything about using those devices. they are, as some say, 'not my bag'.
      --

  2. Excellent idea by BigBadBri · · Score: 4, Funny
    Now I can make the electro-stimulation Condom!

    Thrills for you and for her - with the optional audio input, you too cam throb to the music of lurrrve gods such as Barry White or Motorhead!

    --
    oh brave new world, that has such people in it!
    1. Re:Excellent idea by musingmelpomene · · Score: 2, Informative

      audio input? Perhaps you're thinking of the Audi-Oh! vibrator (vaguely NSFW).

    2. Re:Excellent idea by The+I+Shing · · Score: 4, Funny

      Oh, c'mon, we could have condoms that bestow immortality on the women we use them with, and we still ain't gettin' any.

      The best we can hope for is sell those condoms to guys with waistbands under 48 inches and use the money to buy porn.

      --
      You are in error. No-one is screaming. Thank you for your cooperation.
  3. Rubbery Behavior by superpulpsicle · · Score: 2, Funny

    As soon as they said Rubbery Behavior, I am thinking of this ultra advanced underwear.

    What a change since the medievil days when knights used to wear potato-sack-material like underwear.

    1. Re:Rubbery Behavior by whittrash · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Now you can finally make a data port that connects directly to a person. You can theoretically send and receive neural signals which can interact and control a machine...or perhaps the other way around. If you think I full of crap, check out this link. Join the Army and you too can be a cyborg!

    2. Re:Rubbery Behavior by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Interesting
      They succeeded in growing nervous system tissue on a connected silicon chip a long time ago, I pretty much figured that was the last step and since then people have been making direct connections. Did you hear about the grid of PV (photovoltaic) cells with electrodes going right into the retina that they've been implanting in the eyes of people made sightless by retina damage? The test units were only 16 elements in a 4x4 grid but it's an analog signal into the eye, it's only monochrome but that's enough to (for example) see a doorway. The vision system is truly amazing in what it can adapt to, and what it will put up with. It is a shame that we don't see a little bit of the lower-frequency light but I'm sure there's a good reason for it. Or there was, once.

      Just imagine having some MEMS-built array implanted in your eye, which could be turned on and off with a remote, that would let your eyes pick up infrared? It would only work well at night because otherwise it would probably be too much of a signal for your nerves to adequately cope with, although I guess you could probably adapt to that to some degree. Or better yet, nanobuilt (Anyone not see that coming? Sorry.)

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  4. Use in sports? by bad+enema · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "Wiring like this could be woven into stretchy sports clothing and used to connect up sensors that monitor athletic performance."

    With the tight restriction on performance enhancing drugs in the Olympics and now mainstream sports, how will this possibly be allowed?

    And even if it was legalized, how much stretching can the body take before succumbing to injury?

    1. Re:Use in sports? by PhilippeT · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Ummm how about we use this to monitor all the athleets to see if any are using "performance enhancing drugs". it's a monitoring not enhancing thing

      --
      A psychopath can't tell the difference between right and wrong. A sociopath knows the difference - he just doesn't care.
    2. Re:Use in sports? by WaterTroll · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's not really a drug that artificially enhances performance I don't think. I guess perhaps it's a more accurate way of doing things like monitoring heartbeat, getting the best workout and such. Athletes such as divers use machines to measure lung capacity and gradually work on how long they can hold their breath (to be brief). I think this opens the field up to even more precise measuring overall. And it could also be used as a safety tool for patients in therapy.

  5. Prior art by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Perhaps the bendy straw people should sue.

  6. Whoa... by Bluesman · · Score: 4, Funny

    "The wires can stretch to over half their original length."

    Is it me, or does this violate some law of grammar, physics, or both?

    --
    If moderation could change anything, it would be illegal.
    1. Re:Whoa... by avendesora · · Score: 4, Funny

      Doesn't violate those laws, just streches them out a bit :-)

  7. IC by Raptorman2k · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I wonder if this could help patients with I.C. It's rather painful and if the "new nerves" can be made to ignore certain impulses...that'd be very beneficial. Very intriguing, anyway

  8. Excersize control? by toygeek · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Excersize control: imagine your DVD playing the workout tape, and a machine monitoring your muscles as you work out. The DVD says "You need to work harder on your abs, the muscles aren't working hard enough". THAT would be cool. I know I could use it.

  9. Reporters can use over half their minds! by Zarf · · Score: 4, Funny

    Caption from Graphic:The wires can stretch to over half their original length.

    Elsewhere, cars were noticed to speed up to over half their original speed! Proof readers were able to increase their accuracy to over half their original accuracy! I increased my IQ to over half it's original size!

    --
    [signature]
  10. Amazing.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Science discovery: Springs are spring-like, also some metal conducts electricity. Quick someone grab a patent!

  11. Polymer confusion by manganese4 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    As another example of the article being poorly put together: The article states "The usual way to make stretchable conductors is to embed metal particles in a rubbery polymer. But the particles tend to separate when the material is stretched, causing the electrical conductivity to plummet."

    But the research in the end use a polymer which I assume would have to be rubbery in order to strech with the spring.
    " Instead of fashioning the gold wires into helical springs, however, they gave them a flat, oscillating shape, like a meandering river, since this is easier to make. They manufactured them by electroplating gold onto a sheet of silver, surrounding the wires with polymer and then stripping the silver away."

    Admittedly metal particles and metal wires are slightly different but a wire is simply a structure made up of particles.

    --
    I make my face look like this and concerned words come out.
  12. A step ahead by GillBates0 · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I, for one, am waiting for the day when we will not require hardware to be made from metals and other hard substances.

    Most devices/machines today depend heavily on a motors/engines/circuits that are not usually flexible and need to maintain a rigid structure. Sure, we try to cover/encapsulate these devices in a pleasing exterior (car bodies, plastic casings etc) in order to protect the hardware and us from the dangerous interiors.

    Imagine cars made up of soft cushiony/rubbery material, which bounces back to absorb a collision...the metal body can dent in and absorb the force of the impact, but it works only against collisions against other cars/hard objects -- not against collisions with humans/animals and other "soft" substances.

    Ofcourse, we could have a soft covering for cars, made of a cushiony substance, but the problem has been embedding circuits/machinery in the soft exteriors, because they tend to bend and damage the interiors.

    Nature has found the perfect way to create organs/pumps/filters/wires which are made out of soft tissue, and is malleable enough to survive severe tension/distortion and bending.

    Here's to hoping that one day we will be able to create soft fuzzy machines which won't be so hard on our water-bag bodies.

    --
    An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
    1. Re:A step ahead by SEWilco · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I, for one, am waiting for the day when we will not require hardware to be made from metals and other hard substances.

      Hard waiting for that.

      Imagine cars made up of soft cushiony/rubbery material, which bounces back to absorb a collision...the metal body can dent in and absorb the force of the impact, but it works only against collisions against other cars/hard objects -- not against collisions with humans/animals and other "soft" substances.

      So collisions with humans will properly make the human bounce, dent in, and absorb the force of the impact.

      Nature has found the perfect way to create organs/pumps/filters/wires which are made out of soft tissue, and is malleable enough to survive severe tension/distortion and bending. Smile when you say that.
      Then look at your smile lines and consider how much severe tension/distortion and bending your "vital organs" can survive.

    2. Re:A step ahead by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Informative
      Saying that nature has found the perfect way is both touching and incorrect. Nature has found evolution, which is something you can find simply because it's a sort of law (it would be amusing to discover tomorrow that we are all full of tiny intelligent subatomic life forms which are in the active process of redesigning us to fit their needs or something) and which requires extremely long time scales and dramatic climatic events to do any serious work. Intelligence allows us to carry out deliberate functional design. Much of our design work is simply mimicking what nature has done, but by putting things together in combinations that ma nature might never have found, but there is also that which is based on science, on learning the behaviors of matter and energy, and the reasons why they behave a certain way, and approaching a design, well, more or less intelligently.

      You're quite right that we are wasteful of energy, however. A car is an excellent example because they are a ubiquitous example of wasting energy. A really highly efficient internal combustion engine is maybe 50% efficient, for very large diesels which are very well designed. A really efficient internal gasoline-powered combustion engine in a car might be 30% efficient. Then the driveline loses 10 to 30% more on top of that. Not to mention that except in the case of hybrid and electric vehicles, energy used to go up a hill is lost going up the hill, you don't get any of it back when you come down. (A really good electric motor/generator is around 85% efficient, though there is some loss at the road, and to heat.) Hell just having big grippy tires on your car means you're wasting power turning kinetic energy into heat through friction and compression, that's why having narrow tires with relatively high pressure is good for your gas mileage.

      Now one of the ways in which we mimic nature these days is through the use of "genetic" algorithms, where the computer invents (psuedo)random values within a set of predefined limits, and then uses a fitness function (the hard part) to rank the design based on, well, whatever you write the fitness function to detect, say rigidity and deflection under certain forces, including the static acceleration of gravity, and the weight of specified masses, intersection with other objects, overall size and weight, and so on. That of course is for a physical object. You could grow anything this way, including software. Does it compile? Does it run? What does it do with these things? As you can guess, the more complicated the thing is, the more complicated the fitness functions get and thus it takes longer to test the item, and of course the longer it takes to generate new iterations, because somehow in all of this you will have to do an analysis of your data and determine which direction to go, what to keep, and what to discard. In other words, evolution is a hard thing to do in software. The world is complicated, I don't think that's news.

      Anyhow, coming back around to the point, we tend to seize a thing and run with it until it doesn't work any more. Cars have been filling our needs ("our?" - "we" in this case is the set of people with disposable income) for some time and through the exploitation of some people and some natural resources we've been using them, and will continue to use them, until something else becomes cheaper, because we're living in a capitalistic society and that's the way things work. This is a time of opportunity for alternative transportation schemes because the value of automobiles is being reduced through the high petrol prices. The longer they stay up, the more TDI models VW is going to sell, the more Hybrids Toyota is going to sell (Toyota announced some time ago that they were going to offer everything as a hybrid before long) and generally the further we will get from the inefficient vehicles we have now - but they'll still be cars.

      I'd love to have some legged running-machine like the landstriders in the dark crystal, made all out of composites and flexible surfaces, that cou

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  13. Finally! by sbma44 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Wires that bend! Great job on the breakthrough, guys.

    Seriously though, this sounds fine for integrating electronics into fabrics, but the "artificial nerve" idea conjures images on Christopher Reeve leaping up and tap dancing. This invention doesn't sound like it has any therapeutic uses that a normal wire doesn't. Perhaps users of vagus nerve stimulators or other devices requiring in vivo wiring could be a little more physically vigorous without worrying about things pulling or breaking... but I have my doubts about even that.

  14. If my Slinky taught me anything . . . by 93,000 · · Score: 5, Funny

    One kink and it's trash can city.

  15. Advance BION research? by bcolflesh · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This might be the breakthrough the BION folks could use to advance their research.

  16. Oh, yay. Finally we can get rid of all that gold. by Punk+Walrus · · Score: 4, Funny
    The flexible circuits, built by using gold springs...

    Wow. Just what we needed. Yet another use for Gold. You know, it being so damn plentiful and all. I was just saying to myself, as I threw away another gold can of soda, "I sure how they find a use for this stuff, because if not, Gold doesn't oxidize or break down very easily, and it will burst our landfills if we don't start a recycling program!" Maybe all those out-of-work gold miners can finally feel useful again, and not be he butt of environmentalist hate.

    Why don't they ever find a great new way to use garbage?

  17. Wow... by Xepherys2 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm feeling like I could be the 6 trillion dollar man any year now... between this, powered exoskeletal legs, BrainGate computer hacker upgrades, and health-enhancing contact lenses, I'll be a super sapper in no time. I wonder how much of this my beloved US Army has actually looked into.

  18. Re:Um... by ajlitt · · Score: 3, Informative

    We've had them for many years. It's called NiTiNOL. Nitinol is a metal alloy that, when used in wires, constricts when current is passed through it (heating phase) and stretches when it is idle (cooling phase). This is also the same material that those bend-proof wire glasses frames are made of. See http://www.dynalloy.com/AboutNitinol.html for just one manufacturer's info page.

  19. that isn't how it works by blair1q · · Score: 3, Interesting

    are they going to coat them in extensible insulator, too?

    and every crush-injury will destroy them

    these guys need ome more requirements analysis

  20. Great by An-Unnecessarily-Lon · · Score: 3, Funny

    How long till I have to upgrade/patch the OS on my underwear?

  21. Not ready for the real world by gunnk · · Score: 5, Insightful

    From the article:

    "the researchers estimate that the wires should be able to withstand several thousand cycles of extension and contraction."

    That's no where NEAR what would be needed for any of the applications they mention. For example, at 70 beats per minute your heart beats 100,800 times per day. Assuming each step a runner takes covers 3 feet (very approximate here), then a "cycle" (back to starting configuration) is 6 ft. That's 880 "cycles" per mile. A single 6 mile run is therefore over 5000 cycles.

    Several thousand "cycles of extension and contraction" is not even close to enough for any real world app. Who wants to have that internal heart monitor replaced several times each day? How about that high-tech single use "smart" sweatshirt?

    These will need to be in the 100's of thousands to millions of cycles for their lifespan before they have any real utility.

    --
    Life is short: void the warranty.
    1. Re:Not ready for the real world by SB9876 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The expected lifetime of these wires will be heavily dependent upon the total strain they encounter in the duty cycle. Basically, it depends upon whether the deformation of the gold is in the elastic or plastic portion of the deformation curve.

      Small deformations just cause the atoms in the gold (or any other material) to get closer or further apart. This is elastic deformation and can be done about infinity + 1 times before the metal breaks. eg: you can slightly flex a paper clip until doomsday and it is largely unaffected.

      Larger deformations actually cause the atoms to start moving around, changing places in the atomic lattice structure to accomodate the strain. This is primarily accomplished by the movement of defects and dislocations through the material. This is plastic deformation and each plastic deformation lowers the lifetime of the material. eg: if you take a paper clip and start seriously bending it, in a few cycles, the part you're bending breaks off.

      I have no idea what the threshhold is between plastic and elastic deformation in these wires is but it should be possible to design devices where the flex wires are in the elastic deformation regime most of the time. Eg: a smart shirt would have flex wires designed to be in the elastic regime when you're skipping around, swinging your arms, whistling show tunes. However, when you trip over a comatose mime and fall into an open storm serwer, the wires would be plastically deformed but won't break like conventional electrodes would in the same situation. Thus giving us essential data to force passage of the mime prevention act of 2008.

  22. Re:Potential Privacy Issue by Xepherys2 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Hmm, I could see this as a BIG thing for social studies, however. Sure, from a required standpoint it's horrible, but it'd never fly. From a science standpoint.

    I'd love to see experiments done where volunteers wear clothing (shoes, hats, socks, pants, underwear, shirts) with this type of thing embedded to collect data. This could be SO useful...

    * Wear and tear points in clothing. Wear do different clothing styles rub against someone, potentially uncomfortably, depending on the body shape and size.

    * hot/cold comfort... Where does the wearer get hotter, colder based on wear of certain overcoats, garments and standard clothing

    * posture studies... how do people really sit, stand, skip and run? once again, by body shape, age, race, culture, locale

    * interaction studies... check for nervousness and pulse rate and the like based on social interaction. This could be done with wires and straps and such, but those things also impose tehmselves on wearers. THis could be done "on the sly" like the driving studies about how much people pay attention, when they THINK it's about seeing how they react to traffic and road conditions. (can't find a link... if someone knows of one, post it... interesting read).

    I'm sure there are many other ideas out there for such things in the study of human nature. This is a tpoic that gets overlooked far too often.

  23. Muscle Wire by crapnutassneck · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Sounds related to "Muscle Wire" special wires used in a field of robotics called "BEAM" to cause movement without motors. Basically they are wires made of different metals fused together so that they react to electrical charge by contracting. Some really cool insect bots made from them can be found here: http://www.solarbotics.net/bestiary/2502_walker_2m ot_gal.html Muscle Wire: Muscle Wires are thin, highly processed strands of a nickel-titanium alloy called Nitinol - a type of Shape Memory Alloy that can assume radically different forms or "phases" at distinct temperatures. However, when conducting an electric current, the wire heats and changes to a much harder form that returns to the "unstretched" shape - the wire shortens in length with a usable amount of force.

    --
    .-=Wit is educated insolence=-. -Aristotle
  24. Sounds like inferior cephalopod nerves to me by ianscot · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Your nervier (brainier) mullosks have amazing nerve fibers. They get used for experiments all the time because they're just huge, big enough to place electrodes in the axons and measure voltage changes.

    Guess flexible wiring is more pleasant to be strapped into than a squid or a cuttlefish, though I doubt it'd be as fast. Cephalopods have very fast nervous systems, they're lightning quick partly as a result.

    --
    "Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
    1. Re:Sounds like inferior cephalopod nerves to me by SB9876 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually, cephalopod nerves aren't that amazing. They're no faster that than the nerves in your body. It's just that cephalopods never developed myelinated nerves. Myselin insulates the nerve and allows for much faster signal propogation. The large size of cephalopod nerves is simply an alternate way to get higher transmission speeds.

      Either way, nerves only transmit at a few hundred miles an hour. Even assuming these flex wires aren't as conductive as a bulk gold wire, you're still looking at a transmission speed at a significant fraction of c.

      Silicon and metal wiring operates at speeds millions of times higher than biological nervous systems.

  25. Brilliant! And on the patent app, call it...! by bbc22405 · · Score: 2, Funny

    It's the cord from a telephone handset.
    Now why didn't they think of that decades ago?
    Oh, wait, they did.
    Nevermind.

    Yeah, yeah, I know. It's FLAT. So maybe they've reinvented ramen noodles?

  26. yeah.. anyone else.. by Cynikal · · Score: 2, Funny

    Anyone else horrified by the thought of this? i mean the first thing i thought of was the jack to my headphones, how every pair maybe lasts 2 weeks before either channel starts going out, or gets huge static.

    just happily walking down the street someday with your new artificial leg, and all of a sudden the "nerves" give out and you take a face dive.. or in the case of the static, you could have the physical equivalent to tourettes; standing in line at the bank when all of a sudden your arm goes and punches the guy in front of you in the back of the head, and then yourself in the face a few times.. gives a new meaning to frayed nerves..

    most metals just dont last long with a large amount of torsion. (for lack of a better word)

  27. Re:Gold hmm.. by SB9876 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The reason that you see gold being used for this kind of stuff is that it's easy to work with. If you try and electroplate copper, you've got to worry about various oxides forming and all sorts of other junk. This can be prevented through careful control of your electroplating conditions. However, in the sort of rapid prototyping conditions that these researchers are working in, it's much simpler to just use gold and not worry about it.

  28. Leave the clothes alone by geekpuppySEA · · Score: 2, Interesting
    WHY is it, that the first real-world reference used when there's any kind of biotech advance is that it's going to be WEARABLE?

    The last thing I want geeks designing is my clothes. I'm not fond of the short-sleeve-polo-with-company-logo, okay!

    --
    Intelligent Design: because MATH is HARD.
  29. I can see it now.... by warlockgs · · Score: 3, Funny

    "Boy, you've got some nerve!" "You like it? I just had it grafted in this morning"

  30. good thing that their webserver doesnt have these. by ShadowRage · · Score: 2, Funny

    or else that webserver would be screaming in pain right now.