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End of Online Anonymity in Canada?
boochy writes "Are we close to losing our anonymity online in Canada? As Angela Pacienza writes in a National Post article; "The record industry's attempts to sue people who share music online threaten to change the widely held expectation that everyone's anonymous when surfing the Internet, lawyers representing the public interest argued Monday."
This is a very interesting article that shows how much the lawyers representing the Canadian Internet Policy and Public Interest Clinic are trying their best to protect our privacy online."
You filthy Americans lose more freedoms every day and you wi....er....wait.....
Key word is "attempts." Each time they've tried the ISPs have told them to hit the bricks. YAWN. Nothing to see here folks. Move along.
What? End of my anonymity? But I just paid $199 for my computer to stop broadcasting an ip address!
Don't no about hour anonymity, but we shore seem to be loosing hour ability to use the write words when we right.
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
If someone believes they are completely anonymous while simply surfing around, they should be dense enough to think a lawsuit is just some legally mandated article of clothing.
Karma: Terrible
Do ordinary Joe Public people really believe they are anonymous when browsing the web? I would have thought that most people would have the sense to realise that when they are browsing the web from home, they will be tracable through their contract with thier ISP.
They're letting anonymous Canadians loose? RUN TO THE HILLS!! "But they're coming from the hills" Run AWAY from the hills! If you see a hill, run in the other direction!
Loosing?! Oh..."losing"...
No. We're not losing our anonymity. We never had it. Your email shows up on mail servers everywhere. Your IP is logged. You can be found.
There's a big difference between actual anonymity and perceived anonymity. The public thinks they're anonymous. The realization that they are not (through education or through lawsuits of these sorts) will lead to increased awareness and eventually smarter users.
Maybe I'm just optimistic.
How does this fit in with Canada's new privacy law that came into effect January 1st? Is this a legitimate business purpose?
Trolling is a art,
Clicky Clicky!!
How can it be "the end of online anonymity" if we've never had it in the first place?
Support the First Amendment. Read at -1
The canadian privacy laws have been passed to protect the citizens who, actually, vote for the government, so the government better listen to the people.
But again, the National Post is just a wet-dream from those rich people who are trying to eliminate the State so they can profit off the unrich people unhindered.
Who ever told you that you were "anonymous" on the Internet?
I actually see 2 different issues here. First, should a person's activities online be traceable? Yes - after due process. We all would love to see spammers caught, etc. However, the other issue is the record company's suit. Should they be suing? Well, the fact that I think they are greedy, stupid, outdated fools doesn't change the fact that they currently have a legal right to do so, I suppose. But here's to hoping they get some reasonable limits set on them soon (say real due process, reasonable limits to how much they can sue for, etc).
What if I do not care about not being anonymousness ? :
I just don't want people to abuse my privacy, it's not the same thing
I agree to be known when I visit a "public" (insert definition here) web site provided it doesn't exchange data about me with other "public" web sites.
Trolling using another account since 2005.
The author of this post proves it
Rule by corporate law(yer) is quite a scary concept. The reward for a successful prosecution becomes to easy to attain.
--dave
davecb@spamcop.net
We've all known, especially those of us with static IPs, that the Internet isn't so anonymous. Anyone who cares badly enough could probably find out who was hiding behind that IP address to download Britney's latest single (ooh! the scandal!). But the article isn't talking about /.ers; it's about Average Joe Canadian. Hey, since it's frickin' cold in Canada, does anybody want to go into business selling tinfoil-lined ski hats?
"Den som vover mister Fodfaeste et Oieblik; den som ikke vover mister Livet." -Soren Kierkegaard
Over 90% of blocked activity at my firewall is probes from kazaa, gnutella etc looking for the last computer with that IP, who was filesharing. Last thing I want is to get hassled for running software I dont have installed because I got some other guy's IP. (the other 10% was mostly nimda and code red - yay microsuck)
Dude you keep linking your site as if it is relevent. Other posters have pointed out the same. Mods - get a clue about this Karma Whore please.
This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
Having anonyimity in Canada is like wearing a ski mask to an adult theater; It's great that nobody knows who you are, but nobody's really looking at you because they're all staring at the guys on horses...
well, it's nothing one behind the ear wouldn't cure
that looked to the topic and read:
.
"End of Online anomalies in Canada?"
so sad, I though they just unpluged the cable over there and then realized we were talking about losing (whatever this means) Anonymity
The Toronto Star reports: Howard Knopf, an intellectual property lawyer speaking as an intervener said providers should not be ordered to disclose the names because there is no evidence to suggest they are breaking any Canadian laws..
Sigs are bad for your health.
This is the exact defense one individual I know used when he was accused of breaking into a rural school's computer system about ten years ago. Though this was a criminal charge (and the burden of proof substantially higher), he was easily acquitted because the prosecutor couldn't show that it was him specifically who was breaking into the computer systems.
In like manner, however, I suspect that the house of cards of the recording industry will just as easily fall apart with these civil suits in Canada. If I stupidly misconfigured my wireless or wired router to allow people to essentially walk in, they could easily breach computer security and use my computer to download all manner of goodies. Given what the AVERAGE computer user is (and you all know what the average user is like...), this is more than a plausible defense.
If your subscribed to one of Western Canada's largest Internet service subscribers (Telus), you've already lost your 'anonymous' status. Telus sells your info to marketing companies - you got to opt out manually by calling thier privacy line.
Don't worry, it's just your mailing address, name, and your phone number. Telus swears they're not selling your email address but I wonder how much longer before they start to use that as a cashable asset?
At issue here is whether or not the music industry is allowed to snoop on your home PC's. Where's the search warrant I ask?
Point 1. Canada's law on privacy (FOIP) may protect us from RIAA anyways. New rules and guidelines came in effect on January 1st. It basically allows us to operate with business without reprocussions of invasion of privacy.
Point 2. Canada is already collecting a tarrif on CD's sold in Canada to go towards musicians from sales lost from online music sharing(even though most have never seen a red cent). If I'm already paying tarrifs on CD's to protect the music industry, do I not have a legal right to copy and download music I want?
Point 3. CD's were suppose to promise cheaper albums when first introducts in the 80's. Cost of production of an LP vs a CD is around 95% less. Where's my savings RIAA? Most albums still go for $15-20 dollars. Where's my promised $7 new albums?
Last Point. The last time the music industry shut down Napster, music sales plumeted 10%. Does file and music sharing spawn interest in CD's? What about albums or CD's I can no longer buy but the music is available P2P? Doesn't RIAA realise that they should be embracing this as an opportunity to change how music is sold? I mean, it's not like artists make money on albums anyways. Who's really behind this push?
Management is doing things right; leadership is doing the right things. - Peter F. Drucker
If there's no anonymity, then who am I? How true is it that there is no anonymity?
The bigger point is that the public does believe that when they are using P2P they are anonymous. That's why they pick pseudonyms and that's why they may do things online that they wouldn't do in the real world - ie. engaging in free speech regarding politics, religion, sex etc. They feel "safe" doing so because it appears to be anonymous. As ISP's hold more information about us, we should be worried about how easily the recording industry or anyone else for that matter can get access to it.
The ISPs in this case have fought (at least Shaw and Telus). However, the other three (Bell, Rogers, Videotron) have hardly fought. They basically will hand over the identities once there is a court order. Their only interest is in the inconvenience that it causes them to have to deal with it and the money it costs them.
This case is actually a perfect example of why there should be a high threshold before ISPs are ordered to hand over names. There was no evidence in this case that linked the IP addresses to the KaZaA usernames and there was no evidence that anyone ever listened to the files that were downloaded. Therefore, there is a risk that the wrong people will be identified and that even if they are the right people, they didn't do anything wrong. Further, the best that the ISPs can do is to identify the account holder, not the actual user (who might be a neighbour who tapped into a wireless router).
Because the recording industry is also worried about the destruction of evidence, another problem is that once they have the account holders' names, they will go to court for an order (without notice to the account holder) which allows them to go in an seize the account holders' computers in order to preserve evidence. How happy would that make you?
The ISPs are scared of all this because they will wear the mess at the end of the day even if the problem was really with the recording industry's investigation.
These actions obviously have very serious ramifications for privacy, anonymity and other rights. Revealing the identities will have effects for the targeted people as well as the broader public because people may just stop going online if they think that what they do may be exposed (in a very public forum) at any time.
On top of all this, downloading music is legal in Canada and there is also a big question as to whether uploading is illegal at all.
Lawyers and government types just don't get it. The technological Pandora's Box has been opened, and legislation isn't going to help. Anonymity on the Internet? Try looking into the FreeNet project. It's so anonymous that lawmakers practically don't know it exists. And if they did, they still couldn't do anything about it.
Key word is "attempts." Each time they've tried the ISPs have told them to hit the bricks. YAWN. Nothing to see here folks. Move along.
"Hey buddy. Better move - there's a truck coming."
"Trucks? Trucks never come down this road."
"Nevertheless, here comes the truck."
"I doubt it. Nothing to see here."
"But..."
"Lalalalalalalalalalalalalala-" *WHAM*
A majority of the youth there drink heavily by the age of 16, in fact it seems socially ingrained.
I'd like to hear where you got that particular gem. It's just wrong.
They don't have any notable icons of social pride other than a sport, hockey.
Keep going. We'll see if you can put your foot even farther into your mouth.
An indifferent feeling, and in most cases hate, exists between the varying states (or whatever they are called in Canada), particularly toward the mostly French ones.
Oh yeah. I wander around all day hating those darned french people. Oh wait... no I don't. Neither do most other Canadians. The separatist movement never recovered after the loss of the referendum what... a decade ago? And now for most Canadians it's business as usual.
I speak with Canadians concerning business matters at least twice a month, and even in casual discussions it is alarming how racist they are towards African Americans.
You're clearly lying. If you spoke to Canadians twice a month on business, you would at least know the word "Province". You'd also know that racism towards African Americans is pretty damn limited. I can't claim Canada to be free of prejudice - collectively we aren't - but most is directed at other groups. Not that that's any better - I'm just saying you haven't a clue.
It is very easy easy to run a national healthcare system when you have a small economy, almost no military spending, and a tiny population.
Is it now? Try running a economy dispersed over the second largest country in the world, geographically speaking, on the tax base made available by that "tiny population".
I'll wager you have no idea how large our economy is.
What people often forget is that social networking can corroborate what IP tracing already has shown.
For example, you post some comment on a web board. Your IP is logged. The Board moderator does a simple trace, and finds out within seconds what kind of connection you have, even if you signed off. Is it from an AOL modem pool? A DSL account? Those sorts of things are easy to find out.
So some hacker-wannabe uses some online modem pool with DHCP, so he's truly anonymous, no? No. See, the most COMMON mistake is that people who do these sorts of things are people you already know. Ex-boyfriend, some guy you pissed off at an anime con, and so on. If you work backwards by assuming that, ("Hmmm... call traced from DSL connection in Camden, NJ... we have a guy who we booted off the board last year from Camden...") and then compare it to other connections he makes, Usenet postings, referral logs, and so on ... you can stack up a HUGE amount of evidence, even if it all might be declared "amazingly circumstantial" in court. Now it's up to the people who he's pissed off how much time and effort they want to put into getting back at the jerk.
I have also found that people who are jerks online are REALLY easy to trace, because if they were truly paranoid and intelligent, they'd keep a low profile and say nothing, never start flame wars, etc... Those who are good at computing, for instance, rarely get involved in computer flame wars because they know they don't have anything to prove. "Let this guy say Macs suck," they'll say. "Their loss!" A guy who is insecure about how little he knows about his FreeBSD box will often try and cover this up with being an ass, patronzining newbies, and so on. That's when the people in the IRC chat room trace his IP, hack his FreeBSD "firewall," find out he hasn't logged in since last year and wouldn't know a hacked box looks like if he saw one, and do whatever they think is appropriate. :)
Of course, I have always felt that the really good hackers are like black holes: we know scientifically they exist, and we see evidence of them, but due to their very nature, you can't actually SEE one in action.
I don't even get why the Recording Industry is trying to sue us Canucks.
Did everyone just forget about the Hub-Bub where all blank media got a special tax added on to the price because naughty people were using it to pirate music?
I've been paying this god-damn "pirate" tax for YEARS now. Doesn't *PAYING*FOR*IT* make these claims of IP Theft kind of moot?
...Also, I didn't know Buggalo could fly.
well, let's look at the blank cd levy in canada shall we? the tax is distributed to artists and labels by socan (society of canadian artists, musicians and producers... how they got "socan" out of that i don't know). it's distributed based on sales. ie big selling artists get a bigger chunk of the taxes.
now, i'm in a band. we're producing a record that will be released by a local label. it's almost certain that we're going to lose money on this whole venture but, hey, it's a labour of love. the cd's that we're using are subject to the levy.
what does this mean? it means my band will lose money making our cd but avril levigne will make a profit from it through the levy.
whew.
2 1337 4 u!
You're incredibly wrong on just about all points. I have mod points right now and couldn't decide whether to mod you down, or reply. Since by the time I decided, you'd already been modded into oblivion, I guess I'll just add insult to injury and reply to your wildly inaccurate and ignorant ramblings.
Re: Health Care
Canada does have a problem with its health-care: the wait times. I'll grant you that in Canada, it generally takes longer to get non-life-threatening operations than it does in the US. But with a catch: in order to get this "expidited" service in the US, you have to be able to afford it. And not everyone can. So in the US, you have nice, fast service for the rich, and no service at all for everyone else. In Canada, EVERYONE gets the health care they need.
An interesting phenomena in Canada is that rich Canadians will come to the US for treatment, because even though they have to pay full price, they get it much more expidently, and higher quality.
The assumption that US healthcare is of higher quality is actually a myth. While it does cost more, and you can get it faster, it is not necessarily better. Canada has all the same drugs, treatments, and state-of-the-art equipment that the US does, with a few notable, exotic exceptions.
Secondary education also seems to be the same.
Oh no, it's definitely not. Canada's government directs much, much more funding (proportionally) towards post-secondary education than the US. The most expensive undergraduate university in Canada is still far, far cheaper than even the average tuition at private institutions in the US. When I graduated 5 years ago, my tuition was $3800 CDN/year, and that was the most expensive anywhere in the country (Acadia University). At the time, Harvard tuition was around $23,000 USD, IIRC.
In addition, the student loan system is more accessible in Canada.
I've spent time in the US, and strongly prefer Canada. While I concede that the US is very large, and attitudes obviously vary by region (just as they do in Canada), my experience with USAmericans was that they are very confrontational, conservative, closed-minded, and traditional about certain issues (gun control, gay marriage, war), and apathetic about other important issues (intellectual property laws, corporate lobbying of government to "buy" laws, DMCA, privacy issues in general).
Canada is far more progressive, socially. Our drinking age is lower (19 versus the US's 21), gay rights are far more advanced in Canada than in the US. Marijuana is de facto legal here (posession, at least - not trafficking or growing [yet]). Publication and media laws are more lax and liberal. Our freedoms and privacy have not been "bought" by powerful corporations nearly to the degree that they have in the US, although that's probably because we simply have far fewer corporations large enough to exert such pressure, by virtue of our smaller population.
Pollution is less in Canada. The violent crime rate is an order of magnitude lower, even when you consider the population difference. Our taxation rate is actually comparable to the US's, when you factor in things like health insurance, which you might not see come off your income tax bill, but you're paying anyway, giving you the illusion that you actually get to "take home" more of your salary than a Canadian. Sure, we may pay an extra $3000 more in income tax than a USAmerican making the same salary, but we're not paying $350/month for health insurance, either. Yes, I know the numbers don't add up. You're actually paying more for your health care than we are, because your government has been paid off by the pharmaceudical companies, and is allowed to gouge people for expensive medication. Canada has tougher regulations to keep medicine affordable, and thus decreasing our overall cost of health care.
OK, I'm done ranting for now.
Like woodworking? Build your own picture frames.
This is where I like the fact that IANAL, for just being cynical gives me a nice idea...
I seem to remember that Canada (just like France and quite some other countries) have people pay a special TAX on Hard Drives/CDR*s/DVDR*s to "compensate" for the piracy that occurs anyway...
Well...You see it ? no ?
I pay a tax on my recording media because it is implied I WILL use it for piracy, even if I don't.... Having paid that tax, I think I can swear to god that I didn't pirate this music, I even paid the tax to have the right to do it...
Would be a shame to see all this tax money I pay go unreclaimed by not accessing all this music I actually paid a tax for....
and so on... Now mod me up and down till I puke, but somewhere in what I said there is a truth, a cynical one, but a truth nonetheless.
It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker
About the most you can do is match a particular IP address at a particular time to one particular ISP, and in turn a subscriber of that ISP. To take action against that subscriber requires the cooperation of the ISP, of course, but if the person on that IP was doing something that violated the ISP's terms of service (and running publically accessable services such as a web server or file sharing software which might cause your upstream traffic to be notably larger than it otherwise would are often such a violation for domestic accounts, at least), then the ISP's gonna be interested in cooperating anyways.
Actually, even IP addresses can be forged under certain circumstances, but most of the people that might otherwise want to fileshare almost certainly don't know what's all involved in making that happen.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Ditto for health care... also determined provincially. One by one, provinces are moving to privatization of health care. Many Canadians have already said goodbye to their so-called "wonderful" social healthcare system.
The social aspects of the education system here are also declining. The government is stopping the allocation of student grants and being more restrictive about the amount that a person will be allowed to owe.
But then if you actually spent some time actually living here, instead of just visiting, you'd know all this.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Some info on the Canadian laws:
http://neil.eton.ca/copylevy.shtml
Point 2. Canada is already collecting a tarrif on CD's sold in Canada to go towards musicians from sales lost from online music sharing(even though most have never seen a red cent). If I'm already paying tarrifs on CD's to protect the music industry, do I not have a legal right to copy and download music I want?
The tariff collected in canada is to compensate artists for the LEGAL music distribution in canada. Ive said it before and ill say it again. Copying your friend's CD's and downloading songs from P2P networks is 100% LEGAL in canada.
So yes, you do have the legal right to copy and download any music you want.
You can borrow a friend's cd, copy it, and keep that copy. You can NOT make a copy of this for someone else. You can NOT ask him to copy you a cd since him doing this would be illegal. You must be the one making the copy. You also can NOT upload songs on a p2p network. This is also illegal.
Refer to an older post of mine for links to some references. Google will give you more.
It's easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.