Posted by
michael
on from the now-better-splash-screens dept.
d3vi1 writes "Pango, Glib & GTK 2.4.0 have been released to the public. See gtk.org in general, or specifically: the announcements for pango, glib and gtk."
Re:As soon as I figure what this things does....
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 5, Informative
FTFA:
GTK+ is a multi-platform toolkit for creating graphical user interfaces. Offering a complete set of widgets, GTK+ is suitable for projects ranging from small one-off projects to complete application suites.
GTK+ is free software and part of the GNU Project. However, the licensing terms for GTK+, the GNU LGPL, allow it to be used by all developers, including those developing proprietary software, without any license fees or royalties.
GTK+ is based on three libraries developed by the GTK+ team:
GLib is the low-level core library that forms the basis of GTK+ and GNOME. It provides data structure handling for C, portability wrappers, and interfaces for such runtime functionality as an event loop, threads, dynamic loading, and an object system.
Pango is a library for layout and rendering of text, with an emphasis on internationalization. It forms the core of text and font handling for GTK+-2.0.
The ATK library provides a set of interfaces for accessibility. By supporting the ATK interfaces, an application or toolkit can be used with such tools as screen readers, magnifiers, and alternative input devices.
GTK+ has been designed from the ground up to support a range of languages, not only C/C++. Using GTK+ from languages such as Perl and Python (especially in combination with the Glade GUI builder) provides an effective method of rapid application development.
This is great
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 1, Informative
2.4 has signinficant new functionallity including the action based toolbar (which I have been waiting for) and bidirectional editing and interface flipping improvements (waiting for that too.) Good work, developers!
Re:Separate windows are fine
by
Jeffrey+Baker
·
· Score: 3, Informative
Sounds like a window manager problem. My window manager (metacity) groups all GIMP windows together.
Re:KDE compatibility?
by
AuMatar
·
· Score: 5, Informative
As long as you have the KDE libraries installed, it doesn't matter what your desktop is.
--
I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
Re:New File Dialog
by
after
·
· Score: 2, Informative
It does not allow one to navigate as they would be with somthing like the KDE file dialog.
It has dockable windows. This is an announcement for GTK 2.4. I don't know whether GIMP 2.0 will use GTK 2.4.
Re:GTK Announcement, not GIMP announcment
by
swtaarrs
·
· Score: 2, Informative
This is an announcement for GTK 2.4. I don't know whether GIMP 2.0 will use GTK 2.4.
GIMP 2.0 will use whatever 2.x Gtk+ you have installed, they're all binary compatible.
Re:New File Dialog
by
niiler
·
· Score: 5, Informative
The problem is that if you want users to only be able to select a single package type, say *.tgz, you have to spin your own dialog. The current filtering is virtually non-existant. If you do try to use it, it can hide directories that don't have the correct extension.
From the release notice:
"The new GtkFileChooser widgets provide a radically simplified and improved way for users to select files. Application writers now are provided with such capabilities such as customizable filters and previews. The filesystem access is encapsulated as a dynamically loaded module; as an example of what this allows, libgnomeui now provides a gnome-vfs backend for GtkFileChooser so that it has the same view of remote filesystems as applications such Nautilus."
This is cool stuff as it will certainly improve the perception and use of GTK.
not so
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 4, Informative
From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) (via Gnome Dictionary, incendentally)
Litigious Li*ti"gious, a. L. litigiosus, fr. litigium dispute, quarrel, fr. litigare: cf. F. litigieux. See Litigation.... 2. Subject to contention; disputable; controvertible; debatable; doubtful; precarious.
I'd say that definition fits. Try using a dictionary next time, smartass.
Re:As soon as I figure what this things does....
by
sydb
·
· Score: 1, Informative
I hazard a guess that was glibc, not glib. glibc is fundamental to your system - it is the GNU C library. glib is a bunch of nice things that GTK uses.
You are confusing glib with glibc (aka libc6). glib is a library with some higher level stuff than the kernel-user glue that is libc.
Jeroen
-- Secure messaging: http://quickmsg.vreeken.net/
Re:As soon as I figure what this things does....
by
sydb
·
· Score: 2, Informative
One of the nice things about Debian is that if I apt-get remove something, before removing it, apt-get will tell me if it's going to have to remove other things that depend on it, and give me the chance to cancel.
Does redcarpet not do this?
-- Yours Sincerely, Michael.
Re:Separate windows are fine
by
Abcd1234
·
· Score: 2, Informative
Your panel should provide an option to configure which apps are collected into single buttons and which aren't. If your panel doesn't have this feature, make a feature request... it should be quite trivial to implement. It's still not a Gimp problem.
Re:So..
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 1, Informative
glib != glibc.
glib is a set of portable data structures and other useful misc. functions. e.g. portable threading, portable 64-bit ints, portable random numbers, portable date/time functions, etc.
It's used primarily by GTK+ (and GTK+ applications).
Re:C++ Interface?
by
daserver
·
· Score: 2, Informative
GTK-- (aka Gtkmm) is the official set of C++ bindings for GTK. (GTK+ is the official set of C bindings._ There have been some other projects to produce C++ bindings for GTK, but AFAIK you would normally use GTK-- if you were using a C++ interface to GTK.
Is there some reason you want to avoid using gtk--?
Re:It's the little things....
by
leandrod
·
· Score: 4, Informative
>
my SGI and Sun boxes have all the linux libraries
Only these aren't Linux libraries, but GNU ones.
No matter how do you call the GNU/Linux OS, these libraries are under the GNU Project umbrella, they have little to do with Linus Torvalds.
Moreover since they've been adopted by the BSDs and Unices as well, and even run on CygWin, they could also be properly called POSIX-based libraries.
-- Leandro Guimarães Faria Corcete DUTRA
DA, DBA, SysAdmin, Data Modeller
GNU Project, Debian GNU/Lin
Re:It's the little things....
by
JustinXB
·
· Score: 1, Informative
I don't see that a good thing necessarily. I've gone through the pain of compiling programs that had dozens of libraries needed because the author was too lazy to write a single function.
Having all these libraries an arm reach away has made modern programmers lazy and less knowledgeable. However, I do agree such libraries as GTK+ are needed.
Re:Fileselector
by
0x0d0a
·
· Score: 2, Informative
I didn't have any problems with GTK per se -- though I did find insufficient documentation on auxilary projects like pango.
A quick glance indicates that the pango documentation has fleshed out nicely.
Xft and fontconfig use the same backends - whats that mean to you? - better fonts - everything GTK now plays the same game.
Fonts and character shapes can take a scripts 'hints' about a font into account - we win, the font creator wins - its about the best of everyones world.
Using bi-directional text is not forced by the application - it can be extracted or 'hinted' from the original source file itself.
GLIB:
GLIB update to use unicode 4.0 - many, many people benefit.
GLIB correctly recovers children processes.
GRandom is better at seeding. But not cryptographically secure. Yet.
The threading library with GLIB is now "operation or not" on integers and pointers.
There is a way to specify an OO 'singleton' or 'once initialisation'
Extra macros for GObject type writers
Properties can be added to interfaces (verbatim copied)
Private data within an instance can contain private data/references within and object (its not clean what this means in a C context, but I think they mean that it's not exposed).
GTK takes all of the above features, and uses those to make a fantastic release.
Lets give these people time,
They need it.
Re:GTK release of 2.4
by
IamTheRealMike
·
· Score: 4, Informative
The threading library with GLIB is now "operation or not" on integers and pointers.
I think you mean the threading library now supports atomic operations - ie you can do some simple integer/pointer manipulation without needing a mutex in a thread safe fasion. They've introduced equivalents to InterlockedIncrement, InterlockedCompareExchange etc in Win32 and very useful they are too.
Re:As soon as I figure what this things does....
by
0x0d0a
·
· Score: 2, Informative
On most systems, tar is dynamically linked to glibc. It was probably glib (why on *earth* Red Carpet let him remove it without complaining about dependencies is beyond me). If he had his system set up to use gdm and kicked it into runlevel 5 at startup and the guy didn't know how to use CLI utils (I'm guessing this is the case if he's using Red Carpet), this could pretty much screw you over.
Re:New File Dialog
by
jrockway
·
· Score: 2, Informative
Um, your first link is from 2000 and GTK1. That's a bit old.
-- My other car is first.
Re:Glade2
by
WombatControl
·
· Score: 4, Informative
Glade2 development has stopped, and there's a full rewrite of Glade going on. The Glade3 code is currently in CVS, and will feature badly-needed features like redo/undo.
My guess is that Glade3 will support the new GTK 2.4 widgets.
Re:As soon as I figure what this things does....
by
maw
·
· Score: 2, Informative
1) Red Carpet would have said what it was going to
remove
2) Red Carpet has a CLI, very useful
3) I know how to use a CLI, and I use Red Carpet all the time. By far the easiest way to keep the numerous systems I'm responsible for updated.
--
You're a suburbanite.
Re:New File Dialog
by
steveha
·
· Score: 4, Informative
This new dialog is not only much more confusing looking, but seems bloated
I disagree. It has many new features compared to the old dialog, and they are cleanly laid out. You have bookmarks now, to quickly go to a folder you use often; there is a preview available now; and there are many different ways to quickly get to the folder you want (e.g. you can go up two folders with one click; you can go to your home directory with one click; etc.)
rather ugly
Matter of taste. That screenshot is using a theme I don't personally like, but in a more soothing theme, the new dialogs look just fine.
and doesn't have the text entry box -- i.e, they removed the one great feature they used to have!
Calm down. The text-entry box is still there if you want it. If it's not showing, as in that screenshot, Ctrl+L will make it appear. If you are a keyboard fan, you shouldn't have much trouble hitting one extra keystroke.
For a Save dialog, you don't even have to hit Ctrl+L; it's only the Open dialog that defaults to mouse-only operation.
I know they're attempting to appeal to inexperienced users, but they always seem to (1) do so in a way that pisses off experienced users, and (2) botch things up in the inexperienced-user case anyway.
During the months of discussion and testing before this release, did you provide any feedback to help them? If not, then perhaps you might want to hold back a bit on the abuse directed towards the GTK developers.
Hopefully someone will come up with a less crappy file-selector and all the major distros (at least debian) will use it.
Hey, it's free software. Fire up your favorite image editor, and start mocking up how it should look. I'm sure OSNews would publish an article about your new design, and I'm sure that someone, somewhere in the world, would code up a prototype for you. Or you could even code it yourself!
As for me, I am content with the new dialog and I'm looking forward to its arrival in Debian Unstable.
steveha
-- lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
Re:Any commerical companies using these?
by
Too+Much+Noise
·
· Score: 5, Informative
not listed so far: Opera (QT) Adobe Photoshop Album (QT)
Re:As soon as I figure what this things does....
by
mrogers
·
· Score: 2, Informative
Even better, run debfoster occasionally. Debfoster asks you what packages you want to keep and then removes all packages (including libs) that are not required by the programs you've decided to keep.
Re:New File Dialog
by
lorien420
·
· Score: 2, Informative
xmms with 2.0: http://beepmp.sourceforge.net/
-- "[We'll be] really getting inside your head and making it an unpleasant place to be" -- Trent Reznor
Re:It's the little things....
by
Jason+Earl
·
· Score: 2, Informative
Code reuse is the "good" sort of laziness. It saves time, memory (shared libs are good), and it allows for easier centralized testing. Basically code reuse is the sort of laziness that saves time and energy for everyone involved.
Not using a packaging manager is the "bad" sort of laziness.
Re:It's the little things....
by
Mysteray
·
· Score: 2, Informative
The problem is that the freetype font rendering library for Linux is unable to use font hints because the required algorithms are patented (by Apple, which seems to like FOSS products unless they encroach on its desktop turf).
The patented hinting algorithms are in the source but #def'ed out by default, you could recompile if you want to. Most people are fine with the replacement auto-hinting though.
Re:So..
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 1, Informative
What exactly was wrong with libc5 that glib had to come along and fark up things anyway?
Apart from the fact that you've confused Glib with Glibc, if you really have to ask that question then you wouldn't understand the answer. Suffice it to say that Glibc2 is better than libc5 in many ways, including things like symbol versioning.
Slashdot Mirror
GTK+ is a multi-platform toolkit for creating graphical user interfaces. Offering a complete set of widgets, GTK+ is suitable for projects ranging from small one-off projects to complete application suites.
GTK+ is free software and part of the GNU Project. However, the licensing terms for GTK+, the GNU LGPL, allow it to be used by all developers, including those developing proprietary software, without any license fees or royalties.
GTK+ is based on three libraries developed by the GTK+ team:
GLib is the low-level core library that forms the basis of GTK+ and GNOME. It provides data structure handling for C, portability wrappers, and interfaces for such runtime functionality as an event loop, threads, dynamic loading, and an object system.
Pango is a library for layout and rendering of text, with an emphasis on internationalization. It forms the core of text and font handling for GTK+-2.0.
The ATK library provides a set of interfaces for accessibility. By supporting the ATK interfaces, an application or toolkit can be used with such tools as screen readers, magnifiers, and alternative input devices.
GTK+ has been designed from the ground up to support a range of languages, not only C/C++. Using GTK+ from languages such as Perl and Python (especially in combination with the Glade GUI builder) provides an effective method of rapid application development.
2.4 has signinficant new functionallity including the action based toolbar (which I have been waiting for) and bidirectional editing and interface flipping improvements (waiting for that too.) Good work, developers!
Sounds like a window manager problem. My window manager (metacity) groups all GIMP windows together.
As long as you have the KDE libraries installed, it doesn't matter what your desktop is.
I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
It does not allow one to navigate as they would be with somthing like the KDE file dialog.
Fortunetely, there is an alternative
GIMP Mailing List Post
It has dockable windows. This is an announcement for GTK 2.4. I don't know whether GIMP 2.0 will use GTK 2.4.
From the release notice: "The new GtkFileChooser widgets provide a radically simplified and improved way for users to select files. Application writers now are provided with such capabilities such as customizable filters and previews. The filesystem access is encapsulated as a dynamically loaded module; as an example of what this allows, libgnomeui now provides a gnome-vfs backend for GtkFileChooser so that it has the same view of remote filesystems as applications such Nautilus."
This is cool stuff as it will certainly improve the perception and use of GTK.
From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)
...
(via Gnome Dictionary, incendentally)
Litigious Li*ti"gious, a. L. litigiosus, fr. litigium dispute, quarrel, fr. litigare: cf. F. litigieux. See Litigation.
2. Subject to contention; disputable; controvertible; debatable; doubtful; precarious.
I'd say that definition fits. Try using a dictionary next time, smartass.
I hazard a guess that was glibc, not glib. glibc is fundamental to your system - it is the GNU C library. glib is a bunch of nice things that GTK uses.
I'd give you links but gnu.org is slow just now.
Yours Sincerely, Michael.
You are confusing glib with glibc (aka libc6).
glib is a library with some higher level stuff than the kernel-user glue that is libc.
Jeroen
Secure messaging: http://quickmsg.vreeken.net/
One of the nice things about Debian is that if I apt-get remove something, before removing it, apt-get will tell me if it's going to have to remove other things that depend on it, and give me the chance to cancel.
Does redcarpet not do this?
Yours Sincerely, Michael.
Your panel should provide an option to configure which apps are collected into single buttons and which aren't. If your panel doesn't have this feature, make a feature request... it should be quite trivial to implement. It's still not a Gimp problem.
glib != glibc.
glib is a set of portable data structures and other useful misc. functions. e.g. portable threading, portable 64-bit ints, portable random numbers, portable date/time functions, etc.
It's used primarily by GTK+ (and GTK+ applications).
It is: gtkmm.
GTK-- (aka Gtkmm) is the official set of C++ bindings for GTK. (GTK+ is the official set of C bindings._ There have been some other projects to produce C++ bindings for GTK, but AFAIK you would normally use GTK-- if you were using a C++ interface to GTK.
Is there some reason you want to avoid using gtk--?
May we never see th
Only these aren't Linux libraries, but GNU ones.
No matter how do you call the GNU/Linux OS, these libraries are under the GNU Project umbrella, they have little to do with Linus Torvalds.
Moreover since they've been adopted by the BSDs and Unices as well, and even run on CygWin, they could also be properly called POSIX-based libraries.
Leandro Guimarães Faria Corcete DUTRA
DA, DBA, SysAdmin, Data Modeller
GNU Project, Debian GNU/Lin
I don't see that a good thing necessarily. I've gone through the pain of compiling programs that had dozens of libraries needed because the author was too lazy to write a single function. Having all these libraries an arm reach away has made modern programmers lazy and less knowledgeable. However, I do agree such libraries as GTK+ are needed.
I didn't have any problems with GTK per se -- though I did find insufficient documentation on auxilary projects like pango.
A quick glance indicates that the pango documentation has fleshed out nicely.
May we never see th
For anyone who has been following the good work that the gnome developers have been doing, its starting to look like vindication.
Ok, enough of the back slapping, lets see whats on offer: (PS - release notes for GTK at Gnome 2.6 update release notes
Font Changes:- Xft and fontconfig use the same backends - whats that mean to you? - better fonts - everything GTK now plays the same game.
- Fonts and character shapes can take a scripts 'hints' about a font into account - we win, the font creator wins - its about the best of everyones world.
- Using bi-directional text is not forced by the application - it can be extracted or 'hinted' from the original source file itself.
GLIB:- GLIB update to use unicode 4.0 - many, many people benefit.
- GLIB correctly recovers children processes.
- GRandom is better at seeding. But not cryptographically secure. Yet.
- The threading library with GLIB is now "operation or not" on integers and pointers.
- There is a way to specify an OO 'singleton' or 'once initialisation'
- Extra macros for GObject type writers
- Properties can be added to interfaces (verbatim copied)
- Private data within an instance can contain private data/references within and object (its not clean what this means in a C context, but I think they mean that it's not exposed).
GTK takes all of the above features, and uses those to make a fantastic release. Lets give these people time, They need it.On most systems, tar is dynamically linked to glibc. It was probably glib (why on *earth* Red Carpet let him remove it without complaining about dependencies is beyond me). If he had his system set up to use gdm and kicked it into runlevel 5 at startup and the guy didn't know how to use CLI utils (I'm guessing this is the case if he's using Red Carpet), this could pretty much screw you over.
May we never see th
If you press ctrl-l with the fileselector open you get a textentry box with tab-completion.
I believe that is the intention.
Um, your first link is from 2000 and GTK1. That's a bit old.
My other car is first.
Glade2 development has stopped, and there's a full rewrite of Glade going on. The Glade3 code is currently in CVS, and will feature badly-needed features like redo/undo.
My guess is that Glade3 will support the new GTK 2.4 widgets.
1) Red Carpet would have said what it was going to remove
2) Red Carpet has a CLI, very useful
3) I know how to use a CLI, and I use Red Carpet all the time. By far the easiest way to keep the numerous systems I'm responsible for updated.
You're a suburbanite.
This new dialog is not only much more confusing looking, but seems bloated
I disagree. It has many new features compared to the old dialog, and they are cleanly laid out. You have bookmarks now, to quickly go to a folder you use often; there is a preview available now; and there are many different ways to quickly get to the folder you want (e.g. you can go up two folders with one click; you can go to your home directory with one click; etc.)
rather ugly
Matter of taste. That screenshot is using a theme I don't personally like, but in a more soothing theme, the new dialogs look just fine.
and doesn't have the text entry box -- i.e, they removed the one great feature they used to have!
Calm down. The text-entry box is still there if you want it. If it's not showing, as in that screenshot, Ctrl+L will make it appear. If you are a keyboard fan, you shouldn't have much trouble hitting one extra keystroke.
For a Save dialog, you don't even have to hit Ctrl+L; it's only the Open dialog that defaults to mouse-only operation.
I know they're attempting to appeal to inexperienced users, but they always seem to (1) do so in a way that pisses off experienced users, and (2) botch things up in the inexperienced-user case anyway.
During the months of discussion and testing before this release, did you provide any feedback to help them? If not, then perhaps you might want to hold back a bit on the abuse directed towards the GTK developers.
Hopefully someone will come up with a less crappy file-selector and all the major distros (at least debian) will use it.
Hey, it's free software. Fire up your favorite image editor, and start mocking up how it should look. I'm sure OSNews would publish an article about your new design, and I'm sure that someone, somewhere in the world, would code up a prototype for you. Or you could even code it yourself!
As for me, I am content with the new dialog and I'm looking forward to its arrival in Debian Unstable.
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
not listed so far:
Opera (QT)
Adobe Photoshop Album (QT)
Even better, run debfoster occasionally. Debfoster asks you what packages you want to keep and then removes all packages (including libs) that are not required by the programs you've decided to keep.
xmms with 2.0: http://beepmp.sourceforge.net/
"[We'll be] really getting inside your head and making it an unpleasant place to be" -- Trent Reznor
Code reuse is the "good" sort of laziness. It saves time, memory (shared libs are good), and it allows for easier centralized testing. Basically code reuse is the sort of laziness that saves time and energy for everyone involved.
Not using a packaging manager is the "bad" sort of laziness.
http://www.dropline.net/gtk/
The problem is that the freetype font rendering library for Linux is unable to use font hints because the required algorithms are patented (by Apple, which seems to like FOSS products unless they encroach on its desktop turf).
The patented hinting algorithms are in the source but #def'ed out by default, you could recompile if you want to. Most people are fine with the replacement auto-hinting though.
Michel
Fedora Project Contribut
What exactly was wrong with libc5 that glib had to come along and fark up things anyway?
Apart from the fact that you've confused Glib with Glibc, if you really have to ask that question then you wouldn't understand the answer. Suffice it to say that Glibc2 is better than libc5 in many ways, including things like symbol versioning.