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Tom's Hardware Investigates Michael's Computers
cojsl writes "Tom's Hardware has an extensive article raising questions about Michael's Computers and their claims of a laptop with a "3DMark03 Average Score - 15,417"." It gets funnier as you go along.
0.19 dB? A ticking watch is about 20dB, and it's a log scale.
My guess is that everytime Michael receives money, he runs down to CompUSA, picks up whatever deal he can find, and ships that computer out to the buyer. If the buyer contacts him about slower than advertised speed, he'll probably say that the special "optimizations" got knocked out of whack during shipping, but not to worry, becuase it's still a "World Class" product.
Back in '96 I made a fake web page(on my university account) that sold hacker/phreaker gear. Red boxes, blue boxes etc. I did my best to make it look legit. I also had some more obscure items, like Game Boy cartridges that did red box tones, and other fun things I could think of.
Mind you the product drawings were almost MS paint quality.
One of the items I sold was a "katana" laptop computer, with CPU speeds about twice of the fastest CPUs of the day. Also, it said you could buy the laptop in person at our outlet store in New Tokyo.
Needless to say regardless of how amateur the page looked, I got emails every day from people who believed it. Most of them wanted the price on the katana. To think if I was a shyster I could have been swimming in credit card numbers.
THG most likely wanted to avoid anything like the petswarehouse.com fiasco.
It would be nice to see "businesses" like this shut down and the scam artist in handcuffs, but more often than not, people like him are VERY good at disappearing, relocating, and starting up the whole scam again.
I had a run-in with a retailer at a computer show some years ago who was substituting sub-standard parts and pre-loading Windows 98 on his boxes, advertising them as having Windows 98 included, and then not including the Win98 CD. When I purchased a computer from him for someone else, and then came across a problem with that PC that required the CD, I called to get a copy sent to me, and the retailer refused, said I had to pay $50 to get the CD. I realized quickly that this was a scam he was running, and no matter what, he would not give me the CD. I actually called the Microsoft Piracy Hotline (I've never done that since, and normally I would have just dropped it, but he made me irritated enough with his attitude) and they thanked me, and promised to go after him.
Next computer show a couple months later, same retailer is there, same scam, different "company" name and different location & phone number. These guys thrive on being mobile. They're like cockroaches. Shine the light on them, and they disappear for a little while, but they still come back.
Yes I was commenting on the sad state of affairs on such fear of lawsuits. This makes sense, I may not like it, but I understand it. My issue is that after everything their investigation turned up, they couldn't even say "don't buy here". I understand why they didn't claim the business practices fraud, they gave enough facts on that point for people to decide for themselves.
The lack of an outright fraud claim wasn't my issue though. The investigation was good, the story fell short at the end though. Again I ask my valid question, what does it take to get a do not buy recommendation from THG?
I sometimes wonder the reason I've been so lucky buying things online. I've gotten some pretty good deals from cheesy looking web storefronts. One thing to consider next time is to check out a store's ratings at http://www.resellerratings.com/
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
Maybe Tom's Hardware should hire John Stossel if they are going to do these kinds of pieces.
Can you image how hard it was to actually sell the London Bridge? Probably the only reason the Arizona guy got it was that everyone else thought it was a scam.
Someone also sold the Eiffel tower for scrap.
Twice.
To the same company, I believe.
Fellowship 9/11
I liked this part of his FAQ:
Q: When a client says "How can your systems be instant?"
A: Simply, because most operations that occur on other systems take time to load or render. We eliminated the so called "wait-time" a few years ago with inventing our TXK modeling for our Hard Drive systems. Where many systems today are built with just the "fastest" processor, we dive deeper into incorporating the true components that allow every application you run, to run at the fastest speed possible.
Bizarre.
Cogito ergo sum in Slashdot.
I wonder if it is because of the Hard OCP / "Phantom Console" issue.
I'm not convinced that Infinium Labs has any leg to stand on on that one though, I'm not convinced there is any libel, but they can still try to sue and harass. The Tom's writer is possibly just being CYA about it.
No it wasn't. If you couldn't tell, it was a hidden cam. Do most interviewers hold their camera at an angle and mostly film the person's shirt?
I read it. Why do you ignore the most valid points like: .16 dB noise and 500GB hard disks? How long have you known him as Mike?
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Sociopaths are dangerous people. Tracking them down is fine, but be careful if you decide to tangle with one. Some will dedicate their life to revenge.
I know a lot of people are probably going to say "but he's not a sociopath, just some guy running a scam" or something like that about your Sociopath remark (even though you provided a quite informative link) because in so many people's minds sociopath = homicidal maniac. However I believe you may have hit the nail very firmly on the head in this case. I can't imagine anyone that wasn't a true sociopath being able to so calmly answer this unprompted interview, do so on video (without advance notice as well) and not even break a sweat. Heck, a lot of "normal people" can't pass a lie detector test even if they're telling the truth. (A dirty little secret about them is that concern about what led to the polygraph (such as being accused of murder, etc) is enough to trigger a noticeable reaction to any questions relating to that subject -- irregardless of the answer. Basically you can answer yes or no and it register as a lie either way.)I think the Tom's Hardware guys realized what you're saying as well, they had enough evidence to just really lay into this guy but if you read carefully you'll see an almost pained effort to stay unoffensive to Michael. Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if interviewing the guy wasn't terrifying for them. That said, I hope that if everything is as bogus as it seems that someone can get him stopped.
There are some really strange things here though, Paypal is very sensitive to fraud, and even if they refused to allow chargebacks (they have been reported to just take the money out of your bank account if they get a chargeback), they more than likely would shut down a count that generated quite a few of them. However from the article and the screenshot it would appear his Paypal account is still quite valid. While his busines license isn't valid, it only expired in Januray IIRC, and it would be quite easy to overlook this, especially after having had a divorce and having to move (the notice might have missed him). I'm by no means defending Michael, from the info laid out I'd never buy a computer from the guy myself, but things like this always bug me. Perhaps I just have an inner preference to have things more black & white. :)
Ok. Based on this article I am pretty sure this guy is shady and not very honest. Based on the website said article is hosted on "Toms Hardware", I am pretty sure reviews hardware (and pretty well at that).
So what is missing from this story you ask? Well you have a company that claims to have the fastest Desktop and Laptop PC known to man. And a website that reviews PC's and Laptops. What you don't have is any review in the story.
Not one piece of hardware was obtained and/or tested. I mean if you want to call the guy a fraud (which he most likely is) is not this story 90% incomplete without actually running any benchmarks on the hardware?
(+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
A little background: About a year and half ago I found myself needing/wanting a monster PC, P4 2.8, 5 WD drives, 4 in a raid 10 array for photography, music, video, etc. Gotta protect all those thousands of pictures. For fun I also wanted a gaming config as well, Radeon 9700 Pro, DDR 400, etc. Long story short, I wanted a top of the line Voodoo PC or Alienware, or Hypersonic, custom built for me, not built by me. But in NO WAY did I want the silly paint job or the price that came with it.
I also do enough hardware fiddling at work that I just didn't want to deal with it at home (busy + lazy). I wanted Uber Box to show up at my door. Go ahead poke fun, I wanted it, I could get it, so I got it.
Back then his site was much less over-the-top, he had a 7 year warranty, etc. I dealt with Michael over the phone and we came to a price which was quite agreeable for the parts and labor. I knew the pricegrabber price for every part in there, MB, sticks of memory, etc. The spec sheet he sent was right on.
The PC is great, nice build, no widgets, no crapware, XP Pro with all MS-Phone-Home-ware removed or disabled, all those services in XP that most of us know to turn off, he had them off, etc, etc. When I had trouble with the Firewire ports, he walked me through the pin-outs on the Audigy 2, when that didn't work due to meager support from Creative, he overnighted me a firewire card. He has been outstanding as far as customer service is concerned, I'm quite happy with the "uber-box", yes it's over the top, but i like it that way and in a few years I won't be aching for a complete replacement.
I always ignored his marketing. He's a VERY exhuberant fellow in person, and it shows! HA. He's a one-man-show. He knows how to build a nice PC, and is willing to do it, where I am not. I disapprove of the direction his marketing has taken (who wouldn't). Because of it, I've taken to sending folks here and elsewhere who want a PC built for them.
It's sad because if you remove the marketing aspect, and of course haggle on price, he DOES do just as good a job as the Alienware / Voodoo PC folks. Actually better because I hate that tricked out case stuff, and I have yet to hear of Alienware calling or emailing you back in 5 minutes with a fix or a tracking number to a free replacement part you haven't asked for yet.
Just goes to show that running a [Widget] business takes a lot more than being a [Widget] expert. You've got to have your marketing, order processing, legal angles, etc., all figured out as well.
Maybe this "expose" will help him improve. I wish him luck. He's a real nice guy.
Operator, give me the number for 911!
Furthermore, I'd like to have seen THG actually buy one of these alleged machines. That was the intention of the article, right? See if the products match the descriptions. If the author was talking face to face with Michael, why couldn't he order one of these machines right from him, or at least ask to see a demo? Rather than just tell people to fend for themselves based on what the reviewer discovered, why not go the final step and actually try to look at the products they are investigating? If they did not perform up to snuff (which is most likely), at least then they would have some hard, tangible evidence to flat out say "avoid these guys."
He claims to have sold to the Navy.
Big F**king Deal
I was on the Navy end of purchasing before, not from his store but many others. We often recieved complete JUNK. I am sure every command is different and this was a few years ago but...
We would place an order for hardware. Sometimes very specific things, sometimes generic. Our purchase request would be sent to accounting or purchasing and bids from local businesses were solicited. Our local accounting office was sensitive to minority, small, business owners so a black female owned small business would have a better chance of getting some contracts then a small business owned by a white man. I am in no way shape or form predjidiced or racist, I am just describing the details of the process, I DO NOT know the specific formula they used or any percentages they followed. Many people doing bidding know the game and how to take advantage of this process with husbands and wifes and children all owning thier "own" company.
There was one company that was minority owned, small and would undercut everyone else that bid. We always recieved complete CRAP from them, MB's that the serial ports did not work, MB's that did not fit a standard size. A ten pack of Zip disks but only 5 included. Old refurbed or completely dead Fujitsu HD's (at that time frame, Fujitsu had huge problems), remarked equipment etc.. Often times, some of the problems could be resolved but it required a lot of internal paperwork and phone calls. For the items we were shorted, the common excuse from them was that it was backordered and we should expect it later but the PO clearly stated order was complete and the count on the PO indicated everything was included. It was a complete scam and being a tech recieving the junk, it was not really worth the time to stop it.
Again, I've been out of the Navy for a while now so things may have changed.
Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
Maybe Michael's Computers should try to claim the prize, what with the supernatural performance of their systems. ;)
As far as Michael's Hardware, just remember, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is, and at the very least, you should check first.
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I Hit the Karma Cap, and All I Got Was This Lousy
It would have been nice to see Tom's do some more follow-up. The article says that Gonzales claimed to have a store front just blocks away from the mail box location. I would have liked to see the author verify that claim, and if true, buy a computer and run benchmarks on it. At that point he would have all the information he needed to take a strong stand on whether or not this guy is a shyster. He might even have gathered enough information to present to a federal fraud investigator.
No matter how many of my rights are taken away, somehow I still don't feel safe. -Frigid Monkey
This guy sells computers and knows nothing about what he's doing. He includes logos, reads the trades and doesn't really understand the business nor the hardware he's selling.
I doubt a scam, honestly. I'm pretty convinced this is a case of a guy who doesn't know what he's talking about spinning everything to the best that he can. A guy who thinks he's good at sales and knows computers.
He probably sells quite a few systems, and the equally ignorant customers are pleased with what they get.
--
Evan
"$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
This Michael guy is a 100% liar.
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
There is a local store which has been here as long as I can remember. I went in there one day in my endevour to find gainful employment. I was first struck by the number of "certifications" on the wall, most of them looked like they had been printed out himself. The owner was yelling at the techs to "just make it work" when the tech said he had a failed HD, because he wasn't getting a new one, etc. I talked with him for a little while, wasn't impressed at all about this guy. I left, never to look back. Anytime someone asked me about the place I just told em to stear clear.
Fast forward 3 years, I am related a story by a coworker of their friend who went there to buy a PC. The computer came with no discs, no "windows authentic" sticker, etc. Had a minor problem with it, and the guy refused to fix it, and said it would be $200 for the windows CD. I had my boss relay to them that what that guy is doing is illegal, and that I hope they paid with a credit card.
My 5400 benchmark is only obtained at the expense of switching off AA and AF, so the edge rendering quality is shit. Who seriously uses it like that? I use AA x4 and AF x 4 normally, the 3DMark03 benchmark comes down to about 2800, it might drop to 3fps a couple of times (Nature), but the Wings of Anger section is absolutely stunning, with rates peaking in the 300+fps range.
So what gives? I've seen the 10000+ scores posted and think "Bet it's totally unbearable to watch".
Obviously I just don't get it!
I bought a machine from them. The 3d mark was correct, although it was done through driver "optimizations" that resulted in nearly useless image quality.
Otherwise, my impression is that the chips are overclocked. Hence, the somewhat shakey description of the notebook chips.
I have no idea what the deal is with the advertised weight on the notebooks. It is unrealistic, although the system I bought from them was a desktop, so I can't really comment. Nor can I comment on the "Windows 2004."
We live in an information age. You would think if evolution were still in full swing, that smarter people would proliferate. I am surrounded by an ever increasing horde of idiots. If we were animals, the stupid offspring would be culled and the higher rates of reproduction among these lower order members would be cancelled out by their propensity towards dying earlier. The human species as a whole has apparently decided that everyone, no matter how stupid or disease ridden, needs to be kept alive and allowed to not only survive but to reproduce. It seems that we as a species are devolving.
Intelligent and wealthy people tend to have a lot fewer kids than stupid or poor folks.
That's a fairly recent development, actually. In centuries past, it was the wealthy (ie, those who could feed a large group) who had the most children survive to adulthood.
Even today, the richer you are, the better your kid's chances of living to have kids of their own.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Truthfully the more I dig into these forums and hear about what he had on his site since then the more happy I am he stopped offering his run-of-the-mill PC which I was recommending to folks for about 2 months. I WAS really impressed with his service remember, and the 7 year warranty has it's charms. See above poster on why it could be a good idea. His site looked naive then, it sounds pathological now but it went down and will surely be redesigned if somebody's lawyers don't get him first.
Hey can you analyze writing styles? Funny thing is, it wasn't the processor speed that was making it crash, I fiddled a ton and found it was the bus speed. The damn MB or more likely RAM didn't support a full 400MHz, so once I reduced the multiplier and now run stable at 2.98GHz but have the DDR set to 384 IIRC. Been awhile since I looked.
If that doesn't clear my good pseudonym I give up. Read that again too, he does sound enthusiastic and friendly. Maybe I was a sucker. But he did deliver for me, the pc and good service. That's all I can say for my part.
How could he never deliver a computer? He's just taking people's money and sending them nothing and nobody prosecutes... I mean where's the scam in that. His home address sure was easy to find.
Operator, give me the number for 911!
Except that's true only to a moderately computer-literate buyer.
There are many, many Joe Sixpacks who go to those shows just to buy the cheapest PC available so they can have a PC. They know nothing about the equipment, they may (or may not) have a technically adept friend who steered them towards these shows for a cheap PC, etc. They know that if they go to Best Buy, a PC will cost them $400, but if they go to a show they can get one for $200.
Joe Sixpack doesn't know anything about "pirated" copies of software. As far as he's concerned, he legitimately bought it because he gave the guy at the show $200. And the transactions typically aren't itemized; it's not like there is a receipt indicating he's paying $50 for the case, $50 for the hard drive, $50 for the mobo, and $50 for the CPU. So there isn't even the omission of a "Windows 98 - $33" line to tip him off that he received Windows without paying for it.
If you already know enough to ask questions like these, then yes, you already know you're getting more than what you're paying for. As you pointed out, both parties will nod and wink at each other when the "test software" remains on the hard drive. Neither party has an active interest in talking about the origins of this software -- so the booth vendor can unfairly compete on price with machines that have bundled legal copies of software, and the booth customer gets a computer full of software for dirt cheap.
While I think Microsoft is 'ethically challenged' in oh-so-many ways, it is still not appropriate for me to respond by making copies of their software in protest. If I think their software is overpriced; or if I think they are hiding API calls from me as a developer; or if I think they are predatorily acquiring competitors, I do have legal recourse through the court system. Acquiring an unlicensed copy of Windows claiming "stick it to da man for overcharging!" is not a form of protest -- it's a form of stealing.
John
-L
Don't Panic.