On Gay Characters In Videogames

Thanks to Armchair Arcade for its feature discussing the portrayal of gay characters in videogames past and present. The article starts by pointing out: "In Troika Games' computer role playing game The Temple of Elemental Evil (2003)... the player is asked to rescue, and given the option to marry, an openly gay character", and ends by arguing: "Gay avatars are an inevitable development in the evolution of the videogame that will take place with or without this article. If we already see such possibilities opening up in even mainstream titles like The Temple of Elemental Evil, I doubt it will be long before even the idea of a fantasy role-playing game featuring only one white male avatar will seem a strange, misguided aspect of our distant past."

Comments

FPS more tolerant than the nation?

[Tiamat]

Given the option to marry?

I never thought I'd see the day that first person shooters would be more tolerant of social differences the the general U.S. population.

Re:FPS more tolerant than the nation?

[moronga]

I never thought I'd see the day that first person shooters would be more tolerant of social differences the the general U.S. population.

I don't know if you were making a joke here, but I'm not sure why you'd be surprised by this. Videogames are created and played by (generally) younger people, who are going to be more progressively minded than the general population.

Also, videogames are often the place where people get to do things they'd normally wouldn't do in real life.

And the game in question is an RPG, not an FPS. :)

Gamers are Awful

[Anonymous Coward]

Gamers are some of the most homophobic people out there. Using "gay" to mean "stupid" or "cheap" is clear homophobia, I don't care what kind of way people try to construe it.

"That's so GAY!" is heard almost every round of Counterstrike. "God, why does that fag have to keep cheating?" If you're a real gamer, you know what I'm talking about.

The worst part is that most of them think it's okay, because either a) They don't *really* mean Gay people, it's just a word, or b) they think gay people deserve it.

Its really a problem that needs to go away. It makes online gaming less fun, and it makes otherwise intelligent people act like assholes.

Re:Gamers are Awful

[Imperator]

I know people who do this in real life, and they're not all homophobic. They just don't think about it. I'm pretty sure that if there were a gay person in the room, they wouldn't do it, because then they'd suddenly realize that it's insulting. But when among straight males, they figure "no one's going to get offended". I'm not trying to apologize for them, and if I were gay I'd be pretty pissed about it, but don't assume they're all homophobic.

That said, some of the people who talk like that undoubtedly are homophobic.

Re:Gamers are Awful

[Tiamat]

These words have a negative meaning because, and only because of their connection to gay people, and that makes them homophobic.

For all those people who believe that words like "nigger" and "fag" aren't related to their original meaning, I invite you to come to my neighborhood and start calling my neighbors "niggers". I wager you won't walk out intact.

Re:Gamers are Awful

[Jamie Lokier]

I know people who do this in real life, and they're not all homophobic.

I agree. These days in the places I travel, "gay" has a much more fun, cheery flair to it, even when used to diss something, than I recall from school (13 years ago, Wales). Back then, people said "gay" as an insult and they meant as in queer, as in homosexual etc. All homosexual-related terms were universally used as insults. Bisexual was strangely a word nobody used for anything, and transgender was unheard of.

I'm pretty sure that if there were a gay person in the room, they wouldn't do it, because then they'd suddenly realize that it's insulting. But when among straight males, they figure "no one's going to get offended".

That's just the trouble. They do it when they don't realise 5% of the room (or whatever it is) are, in fact, gay or bisexual, because most non-straights are very quiet about it, because it isn't universally accepted as ok, so they end up insulting people unintentionally.

Imagine the guy at work whose parents have disowned him for being gay, who feels that life is harder than it should be because those who should care for him reject him, that it's better not to tell people at work, that he thanks god each day that the suicidal thoughts he had as a teenager didn't win, and he hasn't said anything to the folks in the room. Do those unintentional insults create a welcoming environment? Does it create an environment where he's likely to talk about it? Would those people even say the things they do, if they thought for a moment about how much they don't know about the people around, or even think they do know, because the people play along uncomfortably?

If people used "that's so female" to diss products and people regularly, would that be ok? Ignore the feminist backlash -- would it be ok in terms of its effect on how people treat one another away from the spaces where they say that? I don't think so.

Homosexuality is still far from general acceptance, yet it is good, because it does no harm and makes people happy. Homophobia still exists, and causes very much harm. That's why we still have to make a special effort to accept homosexuality, and reject homophobia, with our words, actions, and laws.

-- Jamie

Re:Neverwinter Nights

[ScarletEmerald]

This works in Fallout (or was it Fallout 2). Girls could sleep with the girls, guys with the guys... I think you could even have same sex marriages.

Re:Same-Sex marriage allowed in The Sims 2

[Squozen]

Same-sex relationships existed in the first Sims game, though I can't recall what the situation was regarding marriage. You could certainly fall in love and share a bed with members of either sex, the engine didn't care.

Re:Too early to tell

[0x0d0a]

Considering gamers still use the words 'fag', 'gay' and 'homo' in order to insult each other online, it'll be a while until homosexual characters are implemented more into games.

Yes, they should be using "lame" or "retard" or "bastard".

Well, if you're going to play language police...

[Dr. Bent]

Gamers are some of the most homophobic people out there. Using "gay" to mean "stupid" or "cheap" is clear homophobia

Ignorance, maybe. Insensitivity, sure. But homophobia? Most people who use that word use it without thinking about it's meaning in relation to the current context. But if they were homophobic, they would be thinking about it's meaning, and purposely using it with the intention of intimidating gay people.

By branding ignorant or insensitive behavior as homophobic, you're guilty of making the same generalizations that truly homophobic make.

Why focus on a facet, not the whole?

[wowbagger]

Why is it that people insist upon focusing upon a single facet of their being rather than the entirety?

In the specific case of homosexuality, too many people focus upon the fact that they are gay to the exclusion of all else. Should the person be famous and be on a talkshow, that's the whole of their discussion - their homosexuality.

Now, consider somebody like Elton John. Queer as a three dollar bill, and has made no bones about it for years. Yet, that is only a small part of the man - yes, if he is on a talk show and the subject comes up he may discuss (briefly) his S.O., but then he moves on. He treats his relationship like any polite person should - it is his private life, and he trys to keep it such. I don't want to hear about Elton's bedroom, but then again, I really don't want to hear about Ahnold's bedroom, either.

Which brings me to the subject of "Gay characters in (games|movies|TV)" - in most such cases that is ALL the character is - gay. No other character development, just "Look at Fred. He's gay."

How about having a character who is, among other things, gay? Buffy the Vampire Slayer did pretty well with Willow - the fact she was gay was only a small facet of her character.

So why must the fact that some character in this video game is gay be the main facet of the game, or the character? Why not just have the fact come out (pun intended) during the normal course of the game, and make it just another part of the character?

Re:If I had the mod points....

[theghost]

Not giving a rat's ass is easy when you are not among the oppressed.

People who don't use computers for anything more than Word and AOL generally don't give a rat's ass about the DMCA, RIAA, MPAA, and SCO, but that doesn't make them right.

Re:ok..so..

[theghost]

so, since we will have gay characters in-game, can I have a sexy donkey in my game?

Way to throw that red herring in there. Consensual relationships between consenting adults of the same species are in a very different category than bestiality. If you can't see that then you are blind.

why is homosexuality being 'rammed' down everyones throat over the past few years?

Why did those uppity black people ram their race down everyone's throats in the 60's?

Why are some members of our secular (separation of church and state?) society being denied their rights based on moral definitions that are purely religious?

Re:Well then.

[theghost]

What about insect?
That is the next step.
Two consenting adults of the same specifies.

Insects can't consent - they're not a sentient species. I don't even know what "specifies" they are.

If you meant incest, then that's different. The argument you're trying to make is a logical bait-and-switch. We're not arguing that issue, but if it does come up as a significant issue, we can deal with it on its own. I haven't seen any incest-rights marches lately, so i'm not inclined to think of this as a pressing concern.

Black people wanted equal treatment to the whites in the 60's.
Homosexuals have equal treatment already. They can already marry some one of the opposite sex. What they want is SPECIAL TREATMENT.

Not precisely. You can look at it as an increase in rights for everyone (straight people can marry other same-sex straight people too) or you can look at it more realistically, as if your head were not encased in your rectum. Straights have the right to have their romantic relationships sanctioned by law, same-sex couples don't. There are thousands of rights associated with marriage - property rights, inheritance, guardianship, adoption - that are currently denied to same-sex couples. That's unequal treatment.

Comparing the homosexual quest for marriage to civilrights is horrible in logic and in sensitivy.

Maybe when the butt fucking fags get out and start getting bit by police dogs, killed with buckshot, hit by water cannons, and arrested then you can compare the two. Until then stfu.

Bullshit. Look up the arguments that were used to defend anti-miscegenation laws. They are the same ones that are used against gay marriage.

And as to violence, maybe you never heard about a little phenomenon called gay-bashing? Not so different from lynching. Police have been raiding gay clubs, beating up, locking up, and generally persecuting homosexuals for years. I think that qualifies as "until then." Until you get past your uninformed bigotry, stfu.