An anonymous user writes, "Apple announced it has begun shipping its Xserve G5, the most powerful Xserve yet, to customers. Single processor is $2,999.00, dual processor is $3,999.00."
In the very near future. When? No one can say for sure.
When is there to be a G5 iMac?
Not for a while
Why does Apple still make the eMac?
Because not all schools want LCD monitors for their kids to poke pins into
When are the horribly outdated (aside from the largest size) LCD monitors going to be getting refreshed?
Not untill the resolution becomes too small.
Will Apple ever make a multi-button mouse?
Not likely
-- T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
Price Comparison
by
vasqzr
·
· Score: 5, Informative
Apple $3,999
Dual 2GHz PowerPC G5 512K L2 cache/processor 1GHz system bus/processor 1GB DDR400 ECC SDRAM 80GB Serial ATA drive Mac OS X Server (Unlimited Client) Dual Gigabit Ethernet CD ROM drive
Dell $4,127
PE1750 1U Dual 2.4GHz Xeon 72GB HD 1GB RAM Dual Gigabit Ethernet CDROM NO OS
$5,626 if you get the dual 3.2 GHz chips (1MB Cache, 2MB is more) that Apple compares the XServe to on their website.
Re:Price Comparison
by
ERJ
·
· Score: 2, Informative
Sun $3,945.00
2 AMD Opteron Model 242 Processor
2-GB Memory
1 36-GB 10000 RPM Ultra320 SCSI Disk Drive
2 10/100/1000 Ethernet Ports
Sun Solaris 9
Re:Price Comparison
by
RalphBNumbers
·
· Score: 4, Informative
Actually that price you quote for the Sun doesn't include the operation system.
It's also worth noting that the Opteron 242 is the 1.6Ghz version.
Sun doesn't sell the Opteron 246 (the 2ghz chips that apple compares it's XServe to on it's site), but either the 244 (1.8Ghz) or 248 (2.2Ghz) would probably make a more fair comparison.
The base prices for Sun's dual 244 and 248 1U servers are $4,445.00 and $6,995.00 respectively.
-- "The worst tyrannies were the ones where a governance required its own logic on every embedded node." - Vernor Vinge
Re:Price Comparison
by
ERJ
·
· Score: 3, Informative
Hate to nitpick but...
From the order page:
The Solaris Operating System (x86 Platform Edition) is pre-installed on the server in 32-bit and 64-bit support will be available soon. Includes software, license and documentation.
Re:Price Comparison
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 5, Informative
There are alot of reasons that HP model is cheaper.
Unlike the XServe, the Dell, and the Sun, that HP's drives are not hot swapable. (and I'd be willing to bet alot of other internals aren't either)
It has the least cache of the x86 offereings.
It has the by far the slowest memory of any of the servers in the thread (it has DDR266, where most have DDR333, and the XServe has DDR400).
It has only one PCIX slot, where most of the offerings in the thread have 2 or more.
etc...
You get what you pay for.
Re:Price Comparison
by
b-baggins
·
· Score: 2, Informative
Xserve 64-bit support is available now.
-- You can tell a great deal about the character of a man by observing those who hate him.
Re:Price Comparison
by
Blakey+Rat
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
$4127 from Dell? The problem with this figure is that you picked the wrong service contract. Look at what Apple offers with their AppleCare program, then look at what you got with Dell.
That's the price Dell gives you with their uber service, but Apple's service doesn't match up with it. You're looking at $2714 with a service contract equilivant to Apple's *and* 2.8 ghz Xeons instead of 2.4s.
Re:how long to ship
by
tblease
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
It's always amusing to hear the multi-button mouse button argument being brought up. It's even more amusing that people can't fathom buying a two- (or more) button mouse for their computer.
The mouse that's connected to the Mac I'm using right now to submit this comment has two buttons -- there's no reason your Mac can't have a two button mouse, too.
--
huzzah
Re:how long to ship
by
BigBir3d
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
I use a Dell usb optical scroll wheel mouse with my iBook from time to time. It's funny actually, because I can't use the same mouse with my boss' IBM ThinkPad!
Although, I would think that Apple would sell a mouse branded by them with multiple buttons, seeming as how they sell software requiring multiple buttons. Seems strange to exclude a simple hardware market, just because of idealogy (whether right or wrong).
Re:how long to ship
by
tblease
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
I think it's the KISS principle in action -- trying to make it simpler for those computer users that have a tough enough time doing simple tasks as is. Whenever I have to help out my parents or others that are not familiar with computers it really is easier for them to remember to just click rather than 'left-button click' or 'right-button click'.
Lame? Yeah, but makes sense I guess for trying to attract those users that are scared of computers.
--
huzzah
Re:how long to ship
by
WaterTroll
·
· Score: 4, Interesting
They make the eMac as a low end machine for home users. Duh. Not everyone needs or wants a $1500 computer.
I believe the emacs are focused mainly on elementary schools and a similar environmnet (ie, youngsters). They are heavy and not very mobile like the imacs. Everything is in one case, including the CRT. A CRT is used because it's much cheaper, but also because it is very durable compared to an LCD. Also, if you notice on the apple store if you are buying for an educational institution you have the option of getting them wtih a superdrive, which is not available even for the students buying one for themselves. Visit an apple store and you'll notice (atleast the two near my house) that there is a little kids area with emacs. emacs also look like a redesigned and update version of the older imac models, which you see in tons of schools. i see more powermacs in universities, and more imacs in high schools and even more in elementary schools.
there's no reason your Mac can't have a two button mouse, too
Yes, there is: because I prefer my five-button mouse! Which also has a scroll wheel! Muahahaha. I am the evil anti-Mac Mac user! I have more buttons than you can stick a shake at!
Re:Hopefully the rumors will hold...
by
capmilk
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
No flame bait intended:
Looking at Apple's history, I would definately not buy the first model of a new Apple product. Especially the portables have had some pretty severe teething problems for a while.
Re:how long to ship
by
pudge
·
· Score: 2, Informative
I believe the emacs are focused mainly on elementary schools and a similar environmnet (ie, youngsters).
They were, but are no longer.
Also, if you notice on the apple store if you are buying for an educational institution you have the option of getting them wtih a superdrive, which is not available even for the students buying one for themselves.
False. Any customer can buy an eMac with SuperDrive.
Price per gigaflop
by
Somegeek
·
· Score: 5, Informative
I looked at the results and figured, ok the Apple is faster, but the Opteron will be cheaper and faster on a per dollar basis. That's not what I found:
G5 server as configured for Apple's linpac test: dual g5, 1gb ram, dual 250gb sata $4799.00 at apple.com achieved 9 gigaflops in Apple's test $533/gigaflop (its worth noting that in Apple's tech paper (link below), they quote $333/gigaflop, but that in a footnote, #5, they base that on a MSRP of 2799 and 9 gigaflop performance. Now where they are getting that price from I don't know, and the math doesn't work out either, so I'm going with my numbers.)
IBM e325 server as configured by Apple for linpac test: dual Opteron 246, 1gig 2700, dual scsi 15k 36gb (user installed linux os) $5191.00 at ibm.com achieved 5.9 in Apple's test $878/gigaflop
generic server with similar config as Apple used for IBM server for linpac test: dual Opteron 246, 1gig 2700, dual sata 7200 80gb preinstalled linux os $3126.00 at asaservers.com assuming 5.9 in Apple's test $529/gigaflop. (sure you could probably build something cheaper yourself, but this comes with a warranty and support.)
So, for this benchmark, Apple looks like the best performer, and at a good price/performance standpoint too. And to get similar performance, you would need more Opteron blades, which means more space, heat, juice, etc.
Yes, this still leaves a lot up in the air; it would be nice to see these tests run by an independent party, etc, using an AMD hardware configuration that was optimized for the test as the Apple surely was, etc. etc.
Apple's notes on test configurations and performance results for the xserve G5: http://a192.g.akamai.net/7/192/51/0c5b0d0ef0f 03b/w ww.apple.com/server/pdfs/L301323A_XserveG5_TO.pdf
-- And as you tread the halls of sanity, You feel so glad to be, Unable to go beyond. I have a message, From another time..
Re:Price per gigaflop
by
FueledByRamen
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
The $333 per gigaflop figure is for the XServe cluster node - which, if you configure it to 1 GB of RAM, is actually $3149 at checkout, not $2799, making that figure slightly higher - but still much less than the Opterons!
I'd buy an XServe Cluster node if I had the money...
-- Every cloud has a silver lining (except for the mushroom shaped ones, which have a lining of Iridium & Strontium 90)
Re:how long to ship
by
cbirdsong64
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
See, Clippy was a pain in the ass to get rid of, and he was everywhere. Apple hasn't dumbed down the user interface, they've just left the advanced features there for the taking, assuming you know you want them. If you want to use UNIX in OS X, go to the terminal, but my mom never has to know about it. If you want to use a mouse with five buttons, have at it, but my mom's perfectly happy with the one that came in the box.
I don't know who paid for all of your tuitions, but chez nous, $ is pretty dear. The emac and ibook line are an incredible buy for the student who doesn't necesarily have 2600$ to throw around.
emac= well priced.
Re:Hopefully the rumors will hold...
by
kannibal_klown
·
· Score: 3, Informative
It's not like the first versions of PC / laptops explode or anything. But they have some design flaws that range from annoying to just plain wrong. But, it's not like it's Apple's fault. Many companies have the same problem (even car companies).
First generation 12" PowerBooks ran a lot hotter than they do now, and warped (some still do, but not as often).
First generation 15" Aluminum PowerBooks had white markes (splotches) on the screen.
I think the early Powerbook Ti's suffered from the keyboard pressing into the screen way too hard, leaving indentations.
The list goes on. But they're no worse off than 1st generation products from other companies. My first generation Inspiron 3700 sucked. So much so, that Dell killed the line shortly later to release a "fixed" 3800.
Since the 1st rev Powerbook G5 will be their first attempt at a mobile G5, I'd hold off until maybe revision 3 just to be safe. I jsut bought a 15" Powerbook Aluminum, and love it (it's now my main computer). It'll keep me more than happy until the G5 comes out and matures.
Re:Apple mouse
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
That's not a patent for a mouse. It's disguised as a mouse. The control device described in that patent is the one used on the iPod Mini, Apple just didn't want to tip their hand when patenting it.
Re:how long to ship
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
Actually, no, that's not "enough said."
Let's talk about supply chain management for a second. I know that's a big, scary term, but bear with me.
Apple manufactures computers. They build a few standard configurations and put them in boxes, and put those boxes in warehouses. (Not for long, though. Apple has long been lauded as having one of the shortest inventories in the industry.)
When you go buy a computer, you shouldn't have to specify what kind of mouse you want. That's just unacceptable. To the consumer, it's nickel-and-diming. To the company, it's a waste of shelf space and packaging material, not to mention time and effort to track all those separate bills of materials and whatnot.
So the alternative is to make a multi-button mouse a build-to-order option. But the problem is, of the (let's estimate) 10% of Mac buyers who want a different kind of mouse, not all of them want the same kind of mouse. Some want wired, some want wireless. Some want two buttons, some three, some five. Some wheels, some not. So Apple would be faced with stocking a separate build-to-order item that would only satisfy about 2% of the customers anyway, or just throwing the mouse in the box at build time and letting the customer replace it with a third-party item if he chooses.
In other words, if Apple did what you ask--ask, hell, what you practically demand--it would make Macs more expensive. Either that, or Apple would have to eat the additional cost of manufacturing and spend less on R&D.
Huh. My mouse has a replica Concorde dashboard with 2520 switches, 28 levers, a control yoke and a drooping nose canopy for landing visibility.
XServe vs... Powermac?
by
X_Caffeine
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
OK, not trying to troll, just a serious question: why on earth would anyone pay $1000 more for the dual-processor XServe over a dual-2ghz G5? I don't get this pricing discepancy at all.
The XServe has hot-swappable bays, but doesn't the Powermac have hot-swappable drives? (I know it's part of the SATA spec) Is the thousand bucks just for OS X Server? What if you already have a copy and want to transfer the license?
On a loosely related note, it's too bad they aren't still manufacturing G4 XServes... there could be a huge market for Cobalt-style, low cost OS X servers for small offices.
-- // I will show you fear in a handful of jellybeans.
I can think of a few...
by
Llywelyn
·
· Score: 4, Informative
0) It is a 1U Rackmount. Significantly smaller. 1) *Dual* onboard gigabit ethernet on an independent bus. 2) 3 SATA drive channels w/ *hardware* RAID 0, 1, 3, and 5. This is opposed to the Tower's support for Software RAID 0 and 1. 3) ECC RAM. 4) Lower heat and possibly power. This is (strictly) a guess based on them using a newer revision of the processor. 5) A DB-9 serial port. 6) Blinkenlights:-) 7) Yes, OS X Server.
Discount at Apple Store Europe online
by
xiaodidi
·
· Score: 2, Informative
I got an offer at the Apple Store Europe online for a 4-node Xserve cluster. I was given a substantial rebate of about 15 % on the grounds that I will use the hardware for scientific research -- albeit for a commercial company. Extra memory is also on sale at the moment. Check it out before you buy a Dell or something.
Slashdot Mirror
Also available is a $2,999 DUal 2 GHz cluster node, which can run Xgrid, so you too can feel like Virginia Tech.
In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
Feeding the trolls I know:
When was the G5 xServe announced? Does anyone care now that it is finally shipping?
It was announced in Jan: See here (I think).
And VT cares. As does a my local university.
When is the PowerMac going to be updated?
In the very near future. When? No one can say for sure.
When is there to be a G5 iMac?
Not for a while
Why does Apple still make the eMac?
Because not all schools want LCD monitors for their kids to poke pins into
When are the horribly outdated (aside from the largest size) LCD monitors going to be getting refreshed?
Not untill the resolution becomes too small.
Will Apple ever make a multi-button mouse?
Not likely
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
Apple
$3,999
Dual 2GHz PowerPC G5
512K L2 cache/processor
1GHz system bus/processor
1GB DDR400 ECC SDRAM
80GB Serial ATA drive
Mac OS X Server (Unlimited Client)
Dual Gigabit Ethernet
CD ROM drive
Dell
$4,127
PE1750 1U
Dual 2.4GHz Xeon
72GB HD
1GB RAM
Dual Gigabit Ethernet
CDROM
NO OS
$5,626 if you get the dual 3.2 GHz chips (1MB Cache, 2MB is more) that Apple compares the XServe to on their website.
It's always amusing to hear the multi-button mouse button argument being brought up. It's even more amusing that people can't fathom buying a two- (or more) button mouse for their computer. The mouse that's connected to the Mac I'm using right now to submit this comment has two buttons -- there's no reason your Mac can't have a two button mouse, too.
huzzah
I use a Dell usb optical scroll wheel mouse with my iBook from time to time. It's funny actually, because I can't use the same mouse with my boss' IBM ThinkPad!
Although, I would think that Apple would sell a mouse branded by them with multiple buttons, seeming as how they sell software requiring multiple buttons. Seems strange to exclude a simple hardware market, just because of idealogy (whether right or wrong).
Lame? Yeah, but makes sense I guess for trying to attract those users that are scared of computers.
huzzah
They make the eMac as a low end machine for home users. Duh. Not everyone needs or wants a $1500 computer.
I believe the emacs are focused mainly on elementary schools and a similar environmnet (ie, youngsters). They are heavy and not very mobile like the imacs. Everything is in one case, including the CRT. A CRT is used because it's much cheaper, but also because it is very durable compared to an LCD. Also, if you notice on the apple store if you are buying for an educational institution you have the option of getting them wtih a superdrive, which is not available even for the students buying one for themselves. Visit an apple store and you'll notice (atleast the two near my house) that there is a little kids area with emacs. emacs also look like a redesigned and update version of the older imac models, which you see in tons of schools. i see more powermacs in universities, and more imacs in high schools and even more in elementary schools.
there's no reason your Mac can't have a two button mouse, too
Yes, there is: because I prefer my five-button mouse! Which also has a scroll wheel! Muahahaha. I am the evil anti-Mac Mac user! I have more buttons than you can stick a shake at!
No flame bait intended:
Looking at Apple's history, I would definately not buy the first model of a new Apple product. Especially the portables have had some pretty severe teething problems for a while.
I believe the emacs are focused mainly on elementary schools and a similar environmnet (ie, youngsters).
They were, but are no longer.
Also, if you notice on the apple store if you are buying for an educational institution you have the option of getting them wtih a superdrive, which is not available even for the students buying one for themselves.
False. Any customer can buy an eMac with SuperDrive.
I looked at the results and figured, ok the Apple is faster, but the Opteron will be cheaper and faster on a per dollar basis. That's not what I found:
f 03b/w ww.apple.com/server/pdfs/L301323A_XserveG5_TO.pdf
G5 server as configured for Apple's linpac test:
dual g5, 1gb ram, dual 250gb sata
$4799.00 at apple.com
achieved 9 gigaflops in Apple's test
$533/gigaflop
(its worth noting that in Apple's tech paper (link below), they quote $333/gigaflop, but that in a footnote, #5, they base that on a MSRP of 2799 and 9 gigaflop performance. Now where they are getting that price from I don't know, and the math doesn't work out either, so I'm going with my numbers.)
IBM e325 server as configured by Apple for linpac test:
dual Opteron 246, 1gig 2700, dual scsi 15k 36gb
(user installed linux os)
$5191.00 at ibm.com
achieved 5.9 in Apple's test
$878/gigaflop
generic server with similar config as Apple used for IBM server for linpac test:
dual Opteron 246, 1gig 2700, dual sata 7200 80gb
preinstalled linux os
$3126.00 at asaservers.com
assuming 5.9 in Apple's test
$529/gigaflop.
(sure you could probably build something cheaper yourself, but this comes with a warranty and support.)
So, for this benchmark, Apple looks like the best performer, and at a good price/performance standpoint too. And to get similar performance, you would need more Opteron blades, which means more space, heat, juice, etc.
Yes, this still leaves a lot up in the air; it would be nice to see these tests run by an independent party, etc, using an AMD hardware configuration that was optimized for the test as the Apple surely was, etc. etc.
Apple's notes on test configurations and performance results for the xserve G5:
http://a192.g.akamai.net/7/192/51/0c5b0d0ef0
And as you tread the halls of sanity, You feel so glad to be, Unable to go beyond. I have a message, From another time..
See, Clippy was a pain in the ass to get rid of, and he was everywhere. Apple hasn't dumbed down the user interface, they've just left the advanced features there for the taking, assuming you know you want them. If you want to use UNIX in OS X, go to the terminal, but my mom never has to know about it. If you want to use a mouse with five buttons, have at it, but my mom's perfectly happy with the one that came in the box.
I don't know who paid for all of your tuitions, but chez nous, $ is pretty dear. The emac and ibook line are an incredible buy for the student who doesn't necesarily have 2600$ to throw around.
emac= well priced.
It's not like the first versions of PC / laptops explode or anything. But they have some design flaws that range from annoying to just plain wrong. But, it's not like it's Apple's fault. Many companies have the same problem (even car companies).
First generation 12" PowerBooks ran a lot hotter than they do now, and warped (some still do, but not as often).
First generation 15" Aluminum PowerBooks had white markes (splotches) on the screen.
I think the early Powerbook Ti's suffered from the keyboard pressing into the screen way too hard, leaving indentations.
The list goes on. But they're no worse off than 1st generation products from other companies. My first generation Inspiron 3700 sucked. So much so, that Dell killed the line shortly later to release a "fixed" 3800.
Since the 1st rev Powerbook G5 will be their first attempt at a mobile G5, I'd hold off until maybe revision 3 just to be safe. I jsut bought a 15" Powerbook Aluminum, and love it (it's now my main computer). It'll keep me more than happy until the G5 comes out and matures.
That's not a patent for a mouse. It's disguised as a mouse. The control device described in that patent is the one used on the iPod Mini, Apple just didn't want to tip their hand when patenting it.
Actually, no, that's not "enough said."
Let's talk about supply chain management for a second. I know that's a big, scary term, but bear with me.
Apple manufactures computers. They build a few standard configurations and put them in boxes, and put those boxes in warehouses. (Not for long, though. Apple has long been lauded as having one of the shortest inventories in the industry.)
When you go buy a computer, you shouldn't have to specify what kind of mouse you want. That's just unacceptable. To the consumer, it's nickel-and-diming. To the company, it's a waste of shelf space and packaging material, not to mention time and effort to track all those separate bills of materials and whatnot.
So the alternative is to make a multi-button mouse a build-to-order option. But the problem is, of the (let's estimate) 10% of Mac buyers who want a different kind of mouse, not all of them want the same kind of mouse. Some want wired, some want wireless. Some want two buttons, some three, some five. Some wheels, some not. So Apple would be faced with stocking a separate build-to-order item that would only satisfy about 2% of the customers anyway, or just throwing the mouse in the box at build time and letting the customer replace it with a third-party item if he chooses.
In other words, if Apple did what you ask--ask, hell, what you practically demand--it would make Macs more expensive. Either that, or Apple would have to eat the additional cost of manufacturing and spend less on R&D.
You choose.
my mac mouse has 6 buttons and a scroll wheel
Huh. My mouse has a replica Concorde dashboard with 2520 switches, 28 levers, a control yoke and a drooping nose canopy for landing visibility.
OK, not trying to troll, just a serious question: why on earth would anyone pay $1000 more for the dual-processor XServe over a dual-2ghz G5? I don't get this pricing discepancy at all.
The XServe has hot-swappable bays, but doesn't the Powermac have hot-swappable drives? (I know it's part of the SATA spec) Is the thousand bucks just for OS X Server? What if you already have a copy and want to transfer the license?
On a loosely related note, it's too bad they aren't still manufacturing G4 XServes... there could be a huge market for Cobalt-style, low cost OS X servers for small offices.
// I will show you fear in a handful of jellybeans.
0) It is a 1U Rackmount. Significantly smaller. :-)
1) *Dual* onboard gigabit ethernet on an independent bus.
2) 3 SATA drive channels w/ *hardware* RAID 0, 1, 3, and 5. This is opposed to the Tower's support for Software RAID 0 and 1.
3) ECC RAM.
4) Lower heat and possibly power. This is (strictly) a guess based on them using a newer revision of the processor.
5) A DB-9 serial port.
6) Blinkenlights
7) Yes, OS X Server.
Integrate Keynote and LaTeX
[Not likely]
In fact, they have done away with the button altogether. But the stupid trolls continue to moan about the lack of a multi-button mouse.
Get with with the program, you morons. Isn't it about time you started bitching about the Apple mouse not having a button at all?
Dr. Freud
Technology meets Transportation.
I got an offer at the Apple Store Europe online for a 4-node Xserve cluster. I was given a substantial rebate of about 15 % on the grounds that I will use the hardware for scientific research -- albeit for a commercial company. Extra memory is also on sale at the moment. Check it out before you buy a Dell or something.