Microsoft Announces XNA Game Development Platform

Thanks to GameSpot for its story revealing that Microsoft is unveiling its XNA game software development platform later this morning at the Game Developer's Conference in San Jose. XNA is "designed for use with future iterations of all Microsoft game platforms, including Windows, Xbox, and Windows Mobile-based devices" to make simultaneous platform development easier and cheaper, and the company is also expected to announce "Xbox Live-style functionality for billing, security, and matchmaking being made available to Windows developers... [and] the introduction of controllers that are compatible with all Windows and Xbox game players" as part of this move. IGN Xbox has an interview with Microsoft's Jay Allard and Dean Lester which explains XNA as being a cross-platform, evolving toolset that will ensure backwards compatibility, giving the example: "...[if] Adobe was writing an application for Win95, and then WinNT came out there were special features they could take advantages of -- they didn't have to throw it all away and start again." Update: 03/25 00:46 GMT by S : Microsoft has made the official XNA site public, including streaming video from unspecified next-generation games.

Comments

winmm anyone ?

[freuddot]

Anyone remembers winmm ?
Anyone remembers winG ?

Guess this will end up just as useful...

Re:winmm anyone ?

[MikeTheYak]

Anyone remembers DirectX? Oh wait...

Re:winmm anyone ?

[abandonment]

indeed.

microsoft is, in typical fashion, trying to redefine what 'cross-platform' is.

apparently to them there are 2 platforms, the 'windows' platform and the 'console' platform:

[begin quote]
In the past we've always been invested, as with DirectX, in making life easier for the developers. But I think the urgency has never been clearer than it is now. Next generation Windows hardware and next generation console hardware have been speculated about. The one thing everybody does know for sure is that it'll be more powerful and significantly more complex.
[end quote]

they are truly clueless that there is life beyond redmond.

and i love his examples of what not to do:

[quote]Look at the first generation PS2 games. They were using 40% of the hardware on Day One. We don't want that to be the case.[/quote]

conveniently - it's a playstation quote! what a surprise.

and another choice quote:
[quote]

Imagine a world where you take Tim Sweeney's game engine from Epic. It's the most advanced and applicable to your game. And you can stitch in the Havoc physics engine to that real easily. Half my artists use Max and the level designers use Maya and I can tighten that into the work flow and I have a particle system that I want to create on my own and I want to make sure that that snaps in. And, by the way, when I'm tuning the game and doing builds, I want to make sure that it works on Windows and Xbox. That's a lot of custom code.

[/quote]

except he forgets that unreal engine already runs on xbox and windows already - oh and guess what!! it runs on LINUX too - what a novelty

but wouldn't want to mention that - people might realize that the M$ version of cross-platform means any platform with an M$ sticker on it ;}

ugh...

Compatible

[airrage]

Good, they can make xbox2 games backwards compatible!

Re:Compatible

[flewp]

Unfortunatly, the XBox 2 will not be backwards compatible with original XBox games. This could potentially really hurt XBox2 sales I would think. When GT3 came out for PS2, I debated getting one. I eventually opted to buy one on the basis that even though it was expensive, I could play GT3 and some of my old PS1 games to tide me over.

It's funny that MS, who is now looking for compatibility and ease of porting won't have the XBox2 be able to run XBox games.

Re:Compatible

[badriram]

Except I am guessing this would be next round of antitrust lawsuits against microsoft in the next 3-4 years.

Re:Compatible

[hc00jw]

Remember that Microsoft brought Virtual PC, which soon will be able to emulate Windows on G5 class processors, which could be used for backwards XBox compatibility (not saying that Microsoft will do this, but it is an option).

Killing a game project

[tcopeland]

...from the Allard/Lester article:

We're seeing a lot of pressure on medium-sized developers today. And it's not just the little guys. We've killed projects internally that have been three to five million dollars in. That's not a little development team.

Jeepers. Killing a game after spending $3M on developing it? How does a game get that far only to be cancelled?

Re:Killing a game project

[leomekenkamp]

Well, that particular team wanted to put in 'more advanced features' in the game; better A.I., 3D graphics, surround sound, you name it. Unfortunately, when upper management saw what that team had created thusfar, they simply dismantled the development team and took what they had and put that into Windows. Nowadays that game is known as minesweeper.

Re:Killing a game project

[dasmegabyte]

Well, if you put $3m into a game only to find a year later that you've got little beyond an engine and a premise that's overdone in the marketplace, and you'll need $10m and two years more before you could make enough back selling the game to cover costs, then you save $7m and a lot of uncertainty by cancelling the project and getting to work on some better use for that time & money.

Remember, the most important part of editing is knowing what to keep and what to throw away. If you just released every POS you put any effort into regardless of whether it was worthwhile or bug free...well, you'd be ValuSoft.

Re:Killing a game project

[Quarters]

$3 million is nothing. A 20 person team with an average salary of $60,000.00 will burn through that in 2 years just in salary and benefits alone. Factor in equipment costs, recurring bills (rent, utilities, etc..),middleware and the such and $3 million will maybe get you a year or so into a product. That's maybe a tradeshow quality demo, or possibly a loosely defined alpha (at best)

The chances are better if some off the shelf solutions (e.g. graphics engine) are purchased and not built. Those cost $, though. Sometimes a lot of money. Last time I was involved in an engine evaluation the big hitters (Q3 and Unreal) were upwards of $250,000.00/shipped title. That's almost 10% of the $3 million just for a graphics engine.

$3 million isn't a sufficient amount to get very far into a game these days.

Re:Killing a game project

[macgyvr64]

I'm sure LucasArts can tell you everything you ever wanted to know about cancelling games.

Re:Killing a game project

[cabra771]

No shit. I want my Sam and Max 2!

Cross Platform Ports

[evilmuffins]

I hope this doesn't come into widespread use for games, Deus Ex2 was designed for the xbox, and it shows when you play it on a Windows Pc.

maybe better console to pc ports?

[radixvir]

well most games ive played on a pc which use gamepads, seem clunky and ill designed. but maybe this will stop bad console to pc ports (HALO) from happening. theres nothing i hate more than seeing options in an options menu which have been greyed out because they were there from the console version.

Re:maybe better console to pc ports?

[RichM]

... but maybe this will stop bad console to pc ports (HALO) from happening. theres nothing i hate more than seeing options in an options menu which have been greyed out because they were there from the console version.

FYI, Halo was a PC to XBox to PC port and was originally designed and promoted using the GeForce 2 GTS (remember those?). I've played the console and PC versions and know for a fact that there are no greyed out options, unless it's for a feature which your pre-DirectX9 graphics card doesn't do.

Re:maybe better console to pc ports?

[delus10n0]

I purchased Halo for the PC, and am patched to the latest version.

What the crap are you talking about with the vehicle buffer/float thing? It just doesn't exist in the game. PC version vehicles behave exactly as they do on the XBox.

And the only time Halo/PC has ever crashed on me was when switching to a super-high resolution (1600x1200) -- which actually turned out to be ATI's fault (drivers.)

Moderation, -1: Parent is full of crap.

Cross Development = not good

[Snipet]

If Deus Ex 2 showed us anything its that the ability to recycle large chunks of code for two different platforms results in substandard fare. Is this the begining of homogenised PC / Console products which are not optimised for either audience or hardware?

By Crossplatform

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you mean that games will be equally playable on linux, mac, and windows? Or do you mean Windows games will be able to be played on Microsoft operating systems?

IMO playing a game on different Microsoft operating systems isn't crossplatform... Please don't use crossplatform if you don't mean it.

Until they port directx to mac and linux, it'll be hard for them to use directx and be "crossplatform."

Yes!

[mao che minh]

I was eagerly awaiting the day Microsoft would become frustrated on their losses with the Xbox, and just try to gobble up the entire industry from the inside instead! Yes!

Terrible concept.

[michael path]

So, basically, my understanding is that if I put together a solid DDoS exploit for Windows using XNA, it will affect XBOX and Windows Mobile devices?

Moreover, this sounds like .NET for games. .NET has yet to establish itself anywhere useful except as an architecture for Web Development. That's all back-end.

It reads interesting. I see it as vaporware. I can't imagine anything useful coming of this. How could something exploit the power of the next gen X-Box (which appears to be using a non-Intel chip in the future), and still run awesome on Windows?

And porting to mobile devices? One doesn't need to look any further than the slow adoption of the highly broken .NET Mobile Framework (where you can make calls to your heart's delight, but damned if they're implemented) to understand why this will never arrive as hyped.

The only interesting part is that you see people out in the game development sector (Gabe Newell of Valve, for example) excited about the technology. These are the type of people you'd expect to know better.

-m.

Re:Terrible concept.

[Del Vach]

It reads interesting. I see it as vaporware. I can't imagine anything useful coming of this. How could something exploit the power of the next gen X-Box (which appears to be using a non-Intel chip in the future), and still run awesome on Windows?

I believe they're going to be using a variant of the G5 PowerPC. Gotta wonder how much that complicates cross-platform development.

Re:Terrible concept.

[Spy Hunter]

Moreover, this sounds like .NET for games.

That's exactly what it is. It's "we're going to keep doing all the things we've already been doing, but we're going to call them XNA now." XNA is not a product, an API, a hardware specification, or anything tangible at all. It's just a brand name for MS marketing to slap on all their gaming-related stuff to make it sound cooler. The only real news items in these two articles were the plans to bring XBox live to PC games and the introduction of a single controller for XBoxes and PCs.

Cross-platform, uh?...

[UncleAlias]

Let me guess: Microsoft, Microsoft and... hmmm more Microsoft?

"XGML" in the near future?

[parvenu74]

I am not a games developer, so I don't know what all else has to be taken into account for a "gaming development platform" aside from advanced graphics, but I presume that this is going to involve gobs of .NET and XML. Just as the future of .NET apps includes XML Application Markup Language (XAML), will we soon be seeing a similar markup scheme for games -- perhaps even called XGML?

directx

[DreadSpoon]

Anyone remember that one? I don't think any games use it these days, right? ;-)

To be honest, this sounds rather useful, altho in an unfortunately "only for Microsoft developers" way. Porting apps between consoles and computers takes time, a lot of time, simply because portable toolkits don't exist, yet. Standard sets of game controllers between computers and consoles don't sound bad either, altho those have existed for some time.

Being able to write a game once, and with little modification have it running on both a PC and a console, is a Good Thing for developers and users. Lots of fun console games might start becoming available on the PC as well, for those of us that only need to own one game machine.

Of course, certain games will always remain best suited to a particular platform. i.e., playing an FPS with anything but a mouse and keyboard is just sick. Quit trying to make those damn things for consoles, will you? ;-)

Re:directx

[TrentL]

Well, I think even as a learning tool it would be awesome. If I could write & run X-Box code on my PC, that would be an excellent way to learn the system. Sure, it might not run as fast, but at least you could see the code in action and fiddle with it.

Another benefit is that other companies may be forced to take similar approaches. Is there Nintendo-approved Game Boy development kit for the PC? Or a program that lets mere mortals compile PlayStation2 code?

Re:directx

[Zangief]

To be honest, this sounds rather useful, altho in an unfortunately "only for Microsoft developers" way. Porting apps between consoles and computers takes time, a lot of time, simply because portable toolkits don't exist, yet. Standard sets of game controllers between computers and consoles don't sound bad either, altho those have existed for some time.

Sega used Renderware for Sonic Heroes, and the game looks good(not great, but good) on each platform, PS2, GC and Xbox. Apparently Renderware supports PC also but I don't know more examples.

Renderware is a good thing. The Microsoft solution will only have support for MS platforms (PC, XBox, etc). Renderware may be a better solution, at least for this generation of consoles.

Re:directx

[PainKilleR-CE]

Standard sets of game controllers between computers and consoles don't sound bad either, altho those have existed for some time.

Though they've existed mostly as converters to make the non-standard USB connectors on consoles work in the standard USB connectors on PCs, along with some driver hooks in some cases.

Of course, certain games will always remain best suited to a particular platform. i.e., playing an FPS with anything but a mouse and keyboard is just sick. Quit trying to make those damn things for consoles, will you? ;-)


Of course who says the game controllers will only go one way? As it stands, MS already has converters to use keyboards with the XBox, it's only a small step to make their entire line of keyboards and mice work on the XBox, and helps with the whole convergence of the PC in the living room if you can just use the XBox as a pass-through to your Windows-based computer sitting in whatever you have for an office space in your home. As it stands now, I'm looking at building a Linux box to hook up to the TV which will hold all of my media files and be accessed by my Windows-based gaming PC, which is certainly something MS should see as a failure on their part to provide something the customer wants (since XP Media Center doesn't do everything I want to do on my TV).

Re:directx

[HexRei]

"Being able to write a game once, and with little modification have it running on both a PC and a console, is a Good Thing for developers and users. " My god, martha stewart has found slashdot. and she's an MS fan.

Re:directx

[lowe0]

Really.

Only crappy games like Unreal Tournament 2004, Battlefield: Vietnam, Rainbow Six: Raven Shield, Max Payne 2, etc. use DirectX. We'll just ignore that one of the most anticipated titles, Half-Life 2, will use DirectX 9 to its fullest.

Nah, none of those are important. Let's all play Tux Racer instead!

Re:directx

[Paladine97]

Hmmmmmm how many consoles support OpenGL/AL, Alegro, SDL?

That's right: Zero (well it's rumored that the Gamecube's API is similar to OpenGL, but I can't confirm)

Those toolkits are primarily used for interoperability between PC architectures, not consoles.

Microsoft renames DirectX 10! What big news!

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft renames DirectX 10 - XNA and the crowd goes wild over nothing.

Sounds like a good way to kill the XBox cycle.

[Anonymous Coward]

The more their console acts like a PC, has PC software, and generally offers the same look and sound of a PC title the more the console buyers will stay away. True, there are a few people who see a console as an alternative from buying a pricey computer and having to upgrade, but most console buyers are more interested in what consoles do that PC's can not do. Be it proprietary video hardware, to exclusive games. When a game is out on PC and a console, it is no longer is exclusive. This drove a lot of people away from buying XBox1 in the first place - Why bother getting a console to play games we already have on our PC that does a whole lot more?

i had no idea

[theMerovingian]

billing, security, and matchmaking being made available to Windows developers...

Money, secure computing, and chicks - man, I want to be a windows developer! MS sure does take good care of their employees.

game development difficult at best

[192939495969798999]

I am surprised that more large companies haven't tried to make game development tools. There are a few things that nearly every game has, and that are really hard to do efficiently and quickly (the main game loop, for example). I honestly hope that Microsoft does make this and it does work, because that usually means some OSS people will make a knockoff that I can get for free and use, which will be awesome.

Re:game development difficult at best

[MagikSlinger]

I am surprised that more large companies haven't tried to make game development tools.

Of course you're surprised because big companies do make game development tools. Even mid-sized companies. EA has a big tools group for everything from sound to graphics. I used to work at a game company (which shall remain nameless) that spent quite a lot of money on tools. The problem was getting the game teams to use them.

Back in 1999, most game developers I knew insisted on writing their own code. Usually badly that would then have to be debugged over the next 2 years. When I left the industry, management had found the mantra that I and my co-workers in Tool development had been preaching for years: standard frameworks and common engines.

You could make an argument that your 3D engine needs to be custom, but you can't make that for a sound events API. I worked on 2 different games, and found their custom written sound libraries implemented the same functionality without any differences. Heck, there were even identical pieces of code in the two ('cause they both copied it from an older game).

The big companies do create tools and frameworks, and it's getting better year by year as more developers "see the light" of common tools and libraries. The big problem is now coming up with better ideas.

Cross Platform? Could this put paid..

[Channard]

.. to the rumours that the X-Box 2 will not have a HD? If MS are really aiming to make their latest dev cross-platform, the X-Box 2 would need to have a hard disk in order to be comparable to the PC.

Re:Cross Platform? Could this put paid..

[molarmass192]

Not really, a 512MB flash RAM module is probably around $20 in volume. That's a significant cost savings. The other issue is that there's money to be made selling "memory modules". That's money MS left on the table with the XB1. I wouldn't hold my breath awaiting an HD in the XB2.

Re:Cross Platform? Could this put paid..

[shadowcabbit]

... to the rumours that the X-Box 2 will not have a HD? If MS are really aiming to make their latest dev cross-platform, the X-Box 2 would need to have a hard disk in order to be comparable to the PC.

Not necessarily. Flash memory being what it is (ie cheap and plentiful), all you'd really need to do is put version 1.0 of the XNA framework on ROM and push patches/bugfixes to a 64MB slice of flash on the system.

Of course, this being MS, you'd probably need a hell of a lot more than 64MB...

Oh dear...

[Dark Lord Seth]

... matchmaking being made available to Windows developers ...

Serious yet funny 28 year old male Microsoft DirectX developer looking for cute and timid Microsoft Windows software engineer, between the ages of 25 and 30 with shoulder-length dark hair and pale blue eyes. Looking for a serious and caring yet professional relationship to share experiences and get yelled at by Balmer together. Must be willing to enjoy coding, Pepsi Blue, anchovis pizza, good thrillers and a little bit of DirectXXX, preferably in combination with any of the former. Serious inquiries only. Respond to article nr. 123456

So, What About OSS?

[Jameth]

Microsoft is supplying their game-developement-platform. Is there any hope of a competing OSS platform? I know there are some tools out there, but OSS is generally quite anemic when it comes to gaming blood.

Great!

[JBMcB]

So id can compile Doom 3 for a P4/DX9/512MBDDR target, press a button, and it'll compile for a Nokia phone! I bet that'll work GREAT.

Sounds like the old CHIP8 games.

http://members.aol.com/autismuk/chip8/

Po-TAY-to, po-TAH-to...

[parvenu74]

If you are speaking "the Queen's English" then it is indeed correct to say "Microsoft are" because in this case "Microsoft" is logically the collective term used to refer to the people who work for the company. Since the nominative is plural, one uses the plural form of the verb.

Of course, we Americans don't usually see the people behind the company name but rather tend to personify the company as an individual rather than a collective, hence we are much more used to hearing "Microsoft IS a bad company" instead of "Microsoft are announcing a new piece of crap..."

..for billing, security, and matchmaking..

[burgburgburg]

Matchmaking?
MATCHMAKING?!?!

For the love of all that's holy, who entrusts their love life to the same firm that brought us Clippy and Bob?!?!

Happens all the time with software projects

[DaRat]

Happens all the time with software projects. Far better to kill the project at $3million down the tubes than $25 million down the tubes.

I worked as a consultant for a project at a big insurance company. After an estimated $25 million, 1 1/2 years, and 40 people assigned, they killed the project after determining that the vendor's product didn't work well enough to be used in production.

At my current company, we haven't thrown away that much money, but we've killed projects after 1 year of development when they should have been killed after 2 months of feasibility research. But, still better than sinking another year or two and then killing the project.

Alternate headline:

[drinkypoo]

"New DirectX: XNA"

All this is, is a new version of DirectX which they commit to making compatible across different flavors of windows (including possible WinCE devices) which also has Xbox Live functionality (I wonder if they'll roll it into Live or The Zone?) The DirectX SDK will be supplemented by these new tools they're talking about, and a new name will get stuck on DirectX.

It's not that it's an unwelcome advance, but it's not much of an advance. Frankly the thing I'm most interested in is "the introduction of controllers that are compatible with all Windows and Xbox game players" which says two things to me. 1> Microsoft will be releasing a controller which will work on Xbox and Xbox 2 (possibly with different pigtails) with a HID driver to match. Note that this might just be the controller S with an official HID driver. 2> The Xbox 2 will continue to use USB, no surprise there but always nice to see a confirmation.

Good news for gamers, good news for developers

[CokoBWare]

I am probably the minority opinion here (I own a PS2 and won't ever buy an XBox), but gamers will be benefiting most, because the Windows and console platforms will be more likely to get the same games, rather than just exclusive for one platform over another. Microsoft will be able sign development houses to exlusive XNA development contracts, in addition to exclusive XBox or PC contracts. Gamers get more games on both platforms. Gamers get games that can play against each other on either platform with the joint networking code. Gamers get features that are accessible to both platforms.

Developers win because they don't have to learn and develop with two separate middleware products. One set of middle-ware means standardized development that saves time and money. Developers can spend more time designing and implementing games rather than struggling with the platform's issues and quirks. I see XNA like the Java or .NET for gaming platforms. No matter what platform you write for, you have a standard you can code against and rely on for the future.

With XNA, the Windows PC and the XBox will be both first-class citizens. Everyone wins, including MS.

Re:Good news for gamers, good news for developers

[Jaguar777]

Gamers get games that can play against each other on either platform with the joint networking code.

No thanks. I would rather keep the Xbox and PC platform seperate when it comes to online play. I pay for Xbox Live for three reasons.
1) It is extremely hard to cheat using the Xbox + Xbox Live system.
2) High speed connections are required (read: No shooting at a 56K players lagging all over the place)
3) Level playing field (everybody plays with the same graphic settings / options. HDTV being the exception)

If Microsoft mixed PC players with Xbox players I would cancel Xbox Live because I can get the same service for free elsewhere. I'm pretty sure the majority of Xbox Live subscribers feel that way too.
Don't get me wrong. I don't think Live is "better" than plain internet multiplayer. I still play that way too. I just enjoy the clean sandbox benefits that Live brings to the table.

Okay, This is A Bit Offtopic, But...

[bfg9000]

Why oh why does every new product have to have the letter X in it? I find myself longing for the days of iEverything or eEverything.

Except for XML and Mac OS X, the X doesn't make any sense to me in any of the 48,000 "cool" products starting with X. Other letters are cool, too! How about M, B, or W?

C'mon! Innovate a little!

Re:Okay, This is A Bit Offtopic, But...

[Anonymous Coward]

How about M, B, or W?

Fantastic. Following your suggestion, we're going to be rebranding the Playstation 3 as the "BMW 3 Series". I don't see any problems there.

Thanks!

Sony.

Re:Okay, This is A Bit Offtopic, But...

[theghost]

Except for XML and Mac OS X, the X doesn't make any sense...

Right, because the obvious acronym for Extensible Markup Language is XML, and OS 10 would've been completely confusing for Mac users who were used to things like System 7, OS 8, OS 9. Switching to roman numerals is a much better option, especially since OS X...X.1...X.2 would look stupid, so instead you rely on the ever-so-obvious fact that Panthers are clearly better than Jaguars. (BTW, what's next, Cougar? Leopard? Cheetah? Thundercats Ho!)

; )

Microsoft only? Then it won't be that great.

[Anonymous Coward]

While there are a few exceptions, XBox/PC cross platform games are not normally the best idea.

Good PC games are written with the PC in mind. The type of game, the interface, the use of keyboard and mouse, and generally the depth is much greater on a PC.

The XBox's strength, OTOH, is generally more geared towards action, platforming and relaxing on your couch with a controller.

Just because a game can be released on two platforms doesn't mean that it will be equally as good on both.

I hope Sony an Nintendo pull out the Anti-Trust

[bADlOGIN]

Sounds like they're extending the deskop monopoly yet again. Even if it's a load of crap, a nice Billion dollar threat would help level the playing field. After all, will other game development systems that run on windoze be able to work with these new controlers? What about 3rd party controlers that Sony or Nintendo develop that could work with Windoze PC games as well? Will they not be required to support them?

Renderware is used on GTA3

[Thag]

So, it definitely works on the PC as well.

Jon Acheson

Sure!

[Srass]

We've got both platforms, 95 and XP!

Microsoft Monpoly II?

[superultra]

Two things.

1. I have no avid, passionate, deeply ingrained hatred for Microsoft, which, compared to people around slashdot, makes me a Microsoft whore. That said, doesn't this sound exactly like Microsoft is using the fact that most people use Windows on their PCs to further the Xbox2? Essentially, because of DirectX and Windows, MS seems to be considering the PC as a sister platform to the Xbox. Seems to me this is a distinctly unfair advantage over Sony or Nintendo, both of whom obviously do not have an OS to speak of and basically have only one platform to speak of. Seems to me this is dangerous ground for Microsoft to tread, particularly after all the stink in the US they just went through and the whole EU morass that they're going through now.

2. I am no programmer, so perhaps this makes a lot more sense to someone else. But isn't it difficult to co-develop for something that will essentially be an Apple box with something that is Windows? Maybe it's the whole virtual machine thing MS picked up, but it seems kind of unlikely to me. Anyone care to explain?

This will be used to curb piracy

[Jarnis]

XBox Live style addtion to next-gen DirectX (Oh, sorry, XNA). This translates to OS-level CD-Key checks and other 'game calls home to see if it may run'-features for *SURE*. Next we get to pay monthly fees for simple head-to-head gaming.

And developers will scream in joy and jump into the bandwagon. Especially if same libraries are used in XBox2, so porting PCXBox2 will be easy.

Oh, and we get XBox controllers to PC. Well, on some level it's good - lots of great console-style games suck on PC due to non-standard joypads and/or keyboard-based controls. However, the day they start making PC First Person Shooters that *require* a crappy gamepad to play is the day I go berserk and feed the stupid joypad to the MS loonies.

oh puhleeeeeze!

[Thud457]

Any real developer who hasn't drunk the Micro$oft kool-aid knows damn well that DirectXXX is just a thinly-disguised ripoff of fu-fme with a thin wrapper of vendor lock-in!

Good move

[Dalcius]

Let companies make more money by making games easier to port, but at the same time lock them into a Microsoft based system.

Some gaming companies are keeping code portable in order to sell it on PC, PS2, XBOX, etc., and sometimes this leads to a Linux port. If you give management the tools to keep it on multiple platforms (albeit Windows-centric platforms) in half the time, I think it's safe to say that this is going to take a chunk out of potential Linux ports.

The only possible saving grace is that some companies will want to port their games to competing platforms like the PS2, but those games are likely to be console-oriented and as such not as well suited to a PC. Of course there are always exceptions.

MS is once again using it's market penetration to leverage more lock-in. Brilliant move on their part if you ask me.

Cheers

Re:Good move

[JFMulder]

Come on, this is no leverage abusing. This is a Microsoft solution to a Microsoft problem for Microsoft based software. The only thing I see here is company giving cross-platform tools for all the platforms it supports. You can always use something else to make your own cross-plaform games (as in PS2/GC/Xbox cross platform).
Has anyone complained when Microsoft released MSDEV.net and said you'd be able to write applications for Win9X/ME, WinXP, WinCE, Xbox and what ever other platforms they support with it?

Xbox 2 and Windows

[PorscheDriver]

Xbox 2 is based on PPC architecture. Windows will always be Intel. So having something like XNA becomes all the more important. The mad thing is that (as someone else has already posted), it will probably end up running some crazy-ass .NET style byte-code interpretors to hold it all together.

Everyone else would just write nice portable C, but MS will be determined to do it in the most arse-about-face way possible :-)

Portable toolkits do exist but more are needed.

[Rolman]

It may not be popular (yet) on PC/Mac/Linux/whatever environments, but portable toolkits do exist in the video game industry. Renderware is an example of a modular toolkit that is used to make a game that can be ported to several consoles. Just recently, Sega's Sonic Team used it for a high-profile cross-platform project you might have heard about, it's called Sonic Heroes :p . This is getting increasingly popular because of market issues. EA, Konami, Namco, Capcom and many others use this kind of cross-platform toolkits because it can cut development time by an order of magnitude when they want their products to be launched to a wider, multi-platform market.

This is also a problem for the console manufacturers, as they want to push their own, proprietary toolkits and get exclusivity for as many important titles as possible. This is why Microsoft is going to push this XNA thing very hard, it wants developers to stay inside the DirectX world.

Cross-platform, feature-complete, strongly supported APIs and toolkits are a big necessity in today's marketplace to comply with the very high standards the video game industry demands.

By the way, I'll start my little rant about OpenGL. I love the thing very much and it used to be great, but I'm really sad to see it's very outdated now and it doesn't reflect current game developers' needs, for example, fragment shaders support is something not well defined yet and it's a market requirement, you can't just port games from Windows and not support fragment shaders. Then there's the thing about OpenGL supporting SO MUCH F'ng more than just games-related functions (the API is still very strong in the professional apps space), remember the API subset some games had during the Voodoo era? This is also a requirement for today's games, a lightweight, full-featured API without unnecessary bloat.

To make matters worse, OpenGL doesn't include equivalent cross-platform audio and input APIs/toolkits, so you need to rewrite these parts for each new platform, or create your own API (and you still need to write support for it in every platform), or maybe look for some of the half-baked efforts out there.

Here's the reason DirectX smokes everybody else: We don't have a good cross-platform alternative to game development.

id Software, however industry-leading it may be, can't sustain our only true cross-platform open API in existence alone forever.

All I see are trolls

[cardshark2001]

Mods, haven't you noticed that most of these posts are completely about microsoft? Geez, you need to quit slacking and do your duties. What's the world coming to when people can just post their pro-Microsoft propaganda without fear of the righteous retribution of the almighty mod?

Next thing you know, we'll have emacs users getting modded up. It's chaos I tell you! Anarchy!

Console vs PC is a non-issue

[billcopc]

Usually there is little point in porting console games to PC or vice-versa. Different interface, different market. Sure we all fire up an emulator every now and then, but unless you have a USB gamepad that's really close to the console pad (or a native adapter), well it just doesn't feel right.

Tight handling is one of the most important aspects of game programming. If your jaw drops at the graphics & 5.1 sound but you can't aim for shiat using the d-pad, chances are that game disc will be found in the microwave rather soon. Prime example: Halo vs Turok Evolution (on XBOX). Halo plays great, the joystick aim is non-linear so you can let off more precise shots. Turok plays like shiat, impossible to aim adequately so you die young (and often). Same game on the PC would probably do OK thanks to the mouse.

It's like every other design paradox in the world: you have a limited set of resources that you have to deal with. In the game world this is called Tweaking. Playtest the game; if the mouse aim is awkward, throw in some clever interpolation to smooth it out. If gamepad aim is unruly, try some form of light auto-aim assistance to keep the player focused on progress rather than tedium.

Same thing can be applied to graphics. Stuff that looks good in 640x480 on a tv set will look chunky as hell and over-focused on SVGA, so we throw in some heavy AA and selective blurring.

Worse (in my opinion): Sound. TV sets have sucky paper-cone speakers chosen to adequately represent human voice. Bass/treble is typically weak and so you lose all the neat sound effects. You have to compress your sound to fit mostly within that limited bandwidth. Then there's the other end of the spectrum, people with bigass stereos. What sounded good on the 25" TV with stock speakers, now sounds like an Atari 2600 on the good system. Pan over to the gaming PC. It either has a semi-decent set of 2.1 or 4.1 speakers, so now not only do you want mid-bass but you also want surround effects. More headaches.

Multi-platform game development isn't a science, it's a labor of love. That, or a marketing ploy to pass on 3 poor products instead of one good one. If Microsoft has a solution to all this, they will become GODS whether we like it or not. They certainly now possess the experience and expertise on the topic, and it is a very strategic move to corner the exploding mobile entertainment market (games for non-gamers). They are not to be underestimated.

Obligatory bender quote...

[insomaniac]

Blackmail's such an ugly word. I prefer extortion. The X makes it sound cool.

This got +5???

[Rew190]

Seems to me this is a distinctly unfair advantage over Sony or Nintendo, both of whom obviously do not have an OS to speak of and basically have only one platform to speak of.

So what you're saying is that because Microsoft is making it easier for it's developers to develop for all of its systems, it's a monopoly? It's somehow MS' fault that Sony and Nintendo don't have a computer OS?

I am no programmer, so perhaps this makes a lot more sense to someone else.

Ugh, how is this insightful, mods? No offense to the parent at all, just stupid moderators.

Anyone care to explain?

Absolutely. Basically, you said this: But isn't it difficult to co-develop for something that will essentially be an Apple box with something that is Windows?

You're assuming that what they're proposing is an "Apple Box" (not quite sure what that means). It's nothing fundamentally different from a developing standpoint, the platforms are running stripped versions of Windows. MS is just bringing unified functionality to all of these platforms.

It must be stressed that the news is merely that Microsoft is making it easier for developers of its platforms to cross-develop or be able to jump to another system without too much of a porting hassle. Think XBox2 to PC conversions and vice versa that are simple to implement. This benefits MS since they're now making it easier for developers to bring their games to other platforms which MS owns. PROFIT!

Mostly hype, a little good stuff

[jparker]

Disclaimer: IAAGPDFXAPC (I am a game programmer developing for Xbox and PC)
Most of this is just hype. It's all well and good to have a common base on mulitple platforms (which, as many have pointed out, is exactly what DirectX currently provides), but the dream of writing it once and having it work great on Xbox and PC is foolish.
I'll cite just a few reasons. The UI needs to be completely different, and once you start bringing "Xbox Live style functionality" into the mix, UI becomes a very big deal indeed. Also, we all know the classic tradeoffs of speed vs memory. On the PC you're probably looking at 256-512 megs of sys ram, plus 64 of vram, and if you go over that, things get a bit choppy. On the Xbox you get 64 total, and if you go over that you crash and can't ship. Those tradeoffs need to be completely different. I can only imagine the changes once you extend this to mobile phone gaming.

It sounds, though, like this is more about making middleware and tools common on both platforms, which would be pretty nice. Not having to re-write XACT for the PC build would be helpful, and PIX is one of the most amazing graphics analyzers I've seen.

In the end, mostly hype since they need a big GDC push, but there are some nice things burried in there.

Are you NUTS?? X RULEZ!!!

[PetoskeyGuy]

No other letter can compete with X, certainly not a VOWEL. Innovate all you want, but let me X-PLAIN...

Sex - it's almost all X, except for the curvey S parts, and that voyeurist silent e. uh huh, huh huh

eXciting, eXploding, eXterminating - Like ninja's who have real ultimate power.

Letter X - Once you get to this letter there you can relax because your almost done with the alphabet. It's a letter that even looks like a throwing star! If you dis the letter X again ninja's will apear and chop your damn head off!

XXX - Porn or alchohol? It's up to you!

xXx - A little different, but he's like this buff snow board, uzi totin, snow boarding bald dude that really cares deep down about cars and his country and blowing shit up, but not bosses so he's cool.

Triple-X - another different big sweaty guy who pretends to kick peoples asses for a living, but doesn't blow shit up. This one's not bald, but I bet people in the front row wish he was when his long hair flips sweat on them.

XXX - super rare genetic condition where someone is all girl and then some, probably like the powder puff girls.

Chemical X - yeah that's it Powder puff girls. Bubbles, Blossum, and Buttercup. Find the Marilyn Mason Remix.

X - Sign here please, or even I'm to damn lazy to sign my own name. The all-time official winner of Tic-Tac-Toe.

Malcom X - like asterisk it's a wildcard - it can mean anything you want it to mean, or that it doesn't matter. Or that your cool and pissed off.

eXtreme [sports|games|etc|X] - extreme anything. Exterme sports, extreme sailing, extreme grocery shopping. Do something wild and crazy to get a thrill. Now even wearing helmets is cool!

Base X - roman numeral for our standard number system. Uh... The simpsons had Bart almost get eaten by a lion because of this roman numeral thing.

XXX - Roman numerals for when people become OLD. Until next year when it will be changed to XXXX ;)

Programming - For loops always use X. It's a law or something.

Math - the whole horizontal part of the 2D co-ordiate system. Without X all graphs would be straight up and down lines. Y is nothing without X.

Generation X - Lazy good for nothing little bastards who can suddenly vote, buy cars and even video game systems. I think I may even be one of them.

XeroX - the coolest company in the freakin WORLD! I mean they START and END with X!!

eX-laX - Helps you out when you don't want to be full of shit anymore

XML - Extensable Markup Language. Could have been EML but then no one would have used it because that's just not COOL.

XBOX is the most incredible piece of hardware because they have 2 X's which implies they some how cram all that X goodness in that big ugly box.

So to summarize...

X is cool, X rocks, X MARKS THE FUCKIN SPOT!

(:D bring on the ex-lax responses)

just try to do a 'garage shop' game with xbox

[dmh20002]

What room is there in your model for garage development? ...

J Allard: I absolutely hope so. I want to see Clerks to use a movie example.

heh. just try to get access to the XBOX development kits if you are Joe Schmoe in a garage. MS tightly controls who can develop and who gets the kits. Unless XNA drastically changes something, you can forget about getting the xbox tools unless you are an established game development house. They have a reason for this, to prevent a deluge of crappy games diluting the platform, but it still means that the statement that they want to see garage shop games is bogus.

from xbox.com

The Xbox Registered Developer Program is designed to allow established game developers access to Xbox hardware and support

Re:Useless

[Trelane]

It's the marketshare / mindshare that they're after.

Exactly. They 0wn the desktop market at about 90-95%. Of course, about 90-99% of games are for Windows, and a vast majority of those games are written in Microsoft's DirectX. Microsoft is using the developers' familiarity with their systems to get them to port their games to the XBox, handhelds, and smartphones where MSFT does not yet have a monopoly.

This will likely bring an influx of games for XBox and the handhelds from Windows game companies and individuals, which will help push the application market towards Microsoft dominance.

Users will select the Microsoft platforms since their favorite games (and an ever-increasing portion of games) can be ported to the platforms with relative ease, increasing Microsoft's purchased-systems marketshare.

Of course, with more and more systems purchased, more and more apps will be developed for the Microsoft platforms, and we have the same conditions we have on the Microsoft desktop: apps are written for Windows because people use Windows because the apps are for Windows.

If similar "cross-platform" systems are developed for other userspace applications, similar cycles will follow and the monopolization process will be greatly accelerated. (.NET is such a system)

End result if the above is correct: Microsoft PDA, smartphone, and game console/media center monopolies just like their desktop monopoly.