N-Gage 2 Announced

A resounding "meh" by Naffer · 2004-03-25 19:27 · Score: 4, Interesting

Sure, a phone that plays video games is a nice idea, but it probably doesn't work all that well in practice. I've got a flip phone that I've had for just about a year. I've dropped it, scratched it, and subjected it to all manner of abuse. It sits in my pocket and gets slammed into walls and sat on. I don't carry my GBA everywhere because I don't need it everywhere.
In all honestly if I'm going to carry around an expensive phone with extra features, I'd rather have a phone with a really kick-ass internet browser. I'd love to be able to look stuff up when I'm on the go without having to screw around with mobile sites. WAP doesn't do anything for me.

Re:A resounding "meh" by obeythefist · 2004-03-25 20:53 · Score: 4, Interesting

I've got a 3G smartphone, a Motorola A920. The phone is great. I've installed java games, I use Opera to read books in HTML, I keep a few MP3's to listen to, I can take photos and pretty much anything else you might want to do. The only thing missing is a TV tuner.

The reason I got a smartphone instead of a PDA is that I carry my phone around everywhere, always. It makes sense to. It doesn't make sense to try and juggle a PDA and a phone and a gameboy and a camera around. So games might be better/easier on the dedicated hardware of a gameboy, but I guarantee if I owned both, the games on my phone would get much more playtime, because I have it with me, always. This is why eventually Nokia have a good chance of succeeding.

Likewise, in case you think web browsing on a phone is cool, I have to tell you it is. But 3 charges me 1c/kb downloaded. So it's absolutely prohibitive to even bother despite the fact that I'm carrying Opera in my pocket. Maybe in the future web browsing will happen. The technology is there, but there's more greed than need.

--
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Re:A resounding "meh" by DrSkwid · 2004-03-25 21:52 · Score: 2, Insightful

I'd rather have a phone with a really kick-ass internet browser. WAP doesn't do anything for me.

Nokias (and probably all modern Symbians) ship with Opera Mobile, aint that kick ass enough ?

I pay $3 per Mb once I go over my first Mb so it's worthwhile buying a usb bluetooth hub and carry round the drivers on a 3" cd rom / usb stick so you can co-op connected PCs you encounter :)

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Re:A resounding "meh" by StocDred · 2004-03-26 02:26 · Score: 3, Insightful

This is why eventually Nokia have a good chance of succeeding.
Until Nokia gets games of the same length, quality and polish, they have no chance of succeeding. Just because you're willing to settle, don't assume everyone else will.
But 3 charges me 1c/kb downloaded.
Hiptop. $20/month for unlimited kb (plus all other data services, IM, email, Terminal), and the web browser actually works and looks like a computer screen.
Re:A resounding "meh" by Psx29 · 2004-03-26 10:26 · Score: 1

The reason I got a smartphone instead of a PDA is that I carry my phone around everywhere, always. It makes sense to. It doesn't make sense to try and juggle a PDA and a phone and a gameboy and a camera around.
But you're willing to carry around game cartridges?
Re:A resounding "meh" by obeythefist · 2004-03-28 13:52 · Score: 1

But you're willing to carry around game cartridges?

Nope, this is why I keep the games in my phone's memory. It's a smartphone, not a portable playstation.

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I am government man, come from the government. The government has sent me. -- G.I.R.
Re:A resounding "meh" by obeythefist · 2004-03-28 13:57 · Score: 1

Hiptop. $20/month for unlimited kb (plus all other data services, IM, email, Terminal), and the web browser actually works and looks like a computer screen.

I'm sorry. I neglected to mention I'm in Australia. Australian ISPs would rather string you up and bleed you dry than give you any more bandwidth than they absolutely had to by contract and competition law, thanks to the tithe requirements of Telstra and Ziggy. Nice to know you americans still get really great, cheap internet access unlike us third world types.

Anyway, the reason I said Nokia has a good chance of succeeding eventually is because they've seen the writing on the ground and they're working to change their design to meet what the market is really looking for. Although of course with really untried technology like phone-gaming, it's really hit and miss. Either way the stakes are much higher given the number of players in the phone market now. I remember once it used to be you had a nokia or you had a bad phone.

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I am government man, come from the government. The government has sent me. -- G.I.R.

Enhanced features by irokitt · 2004-03-25 19:29 · Score: 0, Funny

This time, they will build a cattle prod right into it!

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If my answers frighten you, stop asking scary questions.

Which department again? by CelticWhisper · 2004-03-25 19:30 · Score: 2, Funny

Less like talking into CmdrTaco? Uhm...he might want to know about this...

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Handheld only maybe? by SphericalCrusher · 2004-03-25 19:32 · Score: 1, Interesting

Why don't they just make an all out handheld console? They already have enough phones... no one wants to play games on their cellphone. And if they do, why not just port games to the cellphone?

Anyhow, they aren't going to win with Nintendo even if they make a handheld console, shaped like a phone, that plays games...

--
"Instant gratification takes too long." - Carrie Fisher

Re:Handheld only maybe? by gauauu · 2004-03-26 02:43 · Score: 2, Interesting

See, I don't agree. As much as I think the first NGage was a waste, I was thinking yesterday, and I would be incredibly happy if my GBA-SP functioned as a phone also.

I think people would love a phone/gaming device, if and only if it was actually good at doing both.

(I know I would)
Re:Handheld only maybe? by pragma_x · 2004-03-26 05:53 · Score: 1

Somebody please mod the parent up.

Hey, Nintendo, are you reading this?

Give us a a cellphone cartridge, w/microphone port, for the gameboy and I'll give you a market of people ready to go buy a gameboy for the first time.

Besides, you don't want Nokia horning in on the portable gaming market, now do you?

TROLL ALERT -- DO NOT MOD PARENT UP ! by Recoil_42 · 2004-03-25 19:36 · Score: 0, Troll

the link goes to

http://chkpt.zdnet.com/chkpt/zdpp01/bearload.com /l 659jldS3v7/msl/1094.jpg

aka, bearload.com/l659jldS3v7/msl/1094.jpg

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This soon? by zaunuz · 2004-03-25 19:39 · Score: 2, Insightful

Seems to me like thise is the shortest time every between the release of an original and a sequal. Around half a year if i remember correctly.

Wouldnt it be better of improving the old model (fixing issues related to switching games and such) instead of releasing a new version? I bet there are many out there who starts thinking "Damn, and I who just bought N-Gage 1..."

I take it for granted that they will make it backwardscompatible with the games from the current model, so that those who have bought the first one (and are happy with it) dont have to buy the new one as well.

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Re:This soon? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-25 20:07 · Score: 0

Well, that is how they were planning on competing. A press-lackey said something like "We're used to shorter hardware cycles than anyone in the games world has seen."
Admittedly, there is something to this idea. As long as the games capabilities are only updated every three years or more, to avoid splintering the software market, it should work quite well.
Something most people don't talk about with the current N-Gage games is that very few of them have sound. That's one thing that should be fixed in this second revision of the games capabilities.
Re:This soon? by wibs · 2004-03-25 20:11 · Score: 4, Funny

I bet there are many out there who starts thinking "Damn, and I who just bought N-Gage 1..."

Nobody bought an N-Gage.

--
If you get nervous, just remember that there are a few billion other people who don't really give a damn.
Re:This soon? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-26 03:37 · Score: 0

"Wouldnt it be better of improving the old model (fixing issues related to switching games and such)..."

Uhhh...that's what they're doing. They're just calling it the N-Gage 2.
Re:This soon? by eoyount · 2004-03-26 04:32 · Score: 1

Seriously, though. Has anyone ever seen one of these outside of a store? I've never seen anyone who owned one.

--
To understand recursion,
you must first understand recursion.
Re:This soon? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-26 05:27 · Score: 0

I take it for granted that they will make it backwardscompatible with the games from the current model, so that those who have bought the first one (and are happy with it) dont have to buy the new one as well.

No, that would be forwards compatibility.
Re:This soon? by brkello · 2004-03-26 11:30 · Score: 1

Wouldnt it be better of improving the old model (fixing issues related to switching games and such) instead of releasing a new version?

I don't understand what is insightful about this. They are doing exactly what you are saying for them to do, improving the old model. Are you saying it won't look the same, or it will be totally redesigned from the ground up? Because that is the only realistic way that this product can be improved. It's just a name, why call it N-Gage 1 when you can call it N-Gage 2...I would imagine people would be afraid to buy it because of all the negative reactions from users and the press. Now with an N-Gage 2, you might make people feel better about buying it because it has that nice 2 on the end there.

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So, what will this one look like? by SynapseLapse · 2004-03-25 19:40 · Score: 1, Funny

Maybe it'll be like talking on a burrito?

Wow! N-Gage 2 by ssand · 2004-03-25 19:55 · Score: 2, Funny

With the huge success the original N-Gage had, It is certainly well deserved to make a successor! I can't wait to get my hands on this one
/sarcasm.

Tenacious Finns by 0x0d0a · 2004-03-25 19:59 · Score: 2, Funny

Those are some tenacious Finns. That device has been insulted, chewed on, and bashed in just about every forum out there. Not only did they *keep* pushing it and doing ads for it, but now they're putting out another.

If nothing else, they get an 'A' for effort.

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May we never see th

Re:Tenacious Finns by gl4ss · 2004-03-25 22:16 · Score: 2, Interesting

the name has to resemble n-gage for the sake of making game compatibility obvious.

plus, this new version, being mostly of the same internals can't have been that expensive for them to develop(heck, n-gage itself is basically just stuff they had already developed hacked together.)

though imho they should have made 6600&all that are capable(hardware wise) of playing the n-gage games to be able to do so without having to jump through hoops(getting cracks).

some of the best stuff available are not official n-gage titles anyways(note: you can sell garage titles that are 100% legal, unlike with gameboy and with nintendos exclusivity to cart making). there's quite a lot good stuff that's shareware/trial distributed, like sky force .

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world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.

Giving It A Chance by BigDork1001 · 2004-03-25 20:00 · Score: 5, Insightful

I felt like washing my hands after trying the first N-Gage, I felt so dirty after touching such a piece of crap. But I am not gonna just curse this one to the rubbish pile because of N-Gage 1. Perhaps Nokia will learn from the long list of mistakes it made with N-Gage and actually produce a quality machine. Lets not judge until we actually see the thing

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"Armed forces abroad are of little value unless there is prudent counsel at home" - Cicero

Re:Giving It A Chance by Scrameustache · 2004-03-26 02:37 · Score: 1

Perhaps Nokia will learn from the long list of mistakes it made with N-Gage and actually produce a quality machine. Lets not judge until we actually see the thing

I'm having none of that! I curse this as of yet non-existant machine and hope it'll be an even worse seller than the first ngage abobination.

I just hope this debacle will serve as a warning to other companies: Don't piss off your market by insulting them for having bought the allready existing competitor's product, and for god's sake, don't sell pieces of crap like that!

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You can't take the sky from me...
Re:Giving It A Chance by Rallion · 2004-03-26 06:16 · Score: 1

True, true, but they really might want to give it a new name. I mean...well, just look at the other comments.

And an A for expediency by cgenman · 2004-03-25 20:19 · Score: 2, Interesting

They went from Announcement to Failure to Sequel in just over a year.

It's almost like mid 90's SEGA.

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The ______ Agenda

One good thing to come of this by jaydeejee · 2004-03-25 22:48 · Score: 1

another chance for us to go Totally Sidetalking Style! I'd still rather have a Gameboy advance

Re:One good thing to come of this by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-26 07:21 · Score: 0

another chance for us to go Totally Sidetalking Style! I'd still rather have a Gameboy advance
Can you people please stop posting a link to that sidetalking site? It was cool like 6 months ago and the people there are ugly and not funny at all. Find a new site to reference or do not post at all

What happended. by Lord+Graga · 2004-03-25 22:55 · Score: 1

Boss, the N-Gage didn't sell well.
You are fired. Director, go make me another one!

Games on Phones by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-26 02:13 · Score: 0

Did you know that you can run a Game Gear emulator on your Treo 600, surf the web, chat via Instant Messenger (all flavors) and install any of 60,000 Palm apps? Forget the N'Gage when I can play Sonic on my Treo, it runs better, it sounds better and it plays better. It makes a better phone and makes a better game device.

Shouldn't be too hard to fix by Sentry21 · 2004-03-26 03:09 · Score: 4, Insightful

The N-gage (version 1) was a neat idea, but there were a few flaws. It was a game machine, a cellphone, and an MP3 player, but the cellphone aspect had some flaws. And the game aspect had some flaws. And you know what, the MP3 player aspect may have had some flaws, because I couldn't figure out how you'd get the damn things on there ('It can play MP3s? Really? How do you download them onto it?' 'I haven't got the foggiest idea.')

The N-Gage 2 needs a few things to wsucceed where its predecessor failed so spectacularly. It needs to change games easier. It needs to be simpler to control where possible (using a numpad to control is less than intuitive, so the manual is a necessity). It needs to not look stupid as a phone. Finally, it doesn't need, but should certainly have, hardware 3D acceleration. Keeping in mind we're dealing with basically PS1 ports, it shouldn't be that hard to make a tiny chip to do this, considering how light-years ahead of the PS2 3D acceleration has leaped.

Here's hoping.

--Dan

Re:Shouldn't be too hard to fix by shrik3 · 2004-03-26 21:35 · Score: 1
...the cellphone aspect had some flaws.

*gasp* you have to talk into it sideways, that "flaw" has been hyped out of proportion. I find it more difficult to open a shell-phone than to align my N-Gage the right way around.

And most people forget the bluetooth support, which means you can use a *wireless* headset.

When my phone rings, I just glimpse at the display to see who's calling (if I don't recognize the caller by a custom ringtone) and lightly press the button on my headset.

And the game aspect had some flaws.

The display aspect ratio is a problem in some games, but that's the game designers fault; most of the games on the N-Gage are direct copies of old games (Rayman, Pandemonium). And I'd like to strangle the idiot who though FPS games could be played without an analog controller (Red Faction).

But the rest are just a bliss to play; hundreds of free/inexpensive Series60-compatible games can be found from the net. And that's not counting the tens of thousands games one can play with Frodo (C-64) and GoBoy (Gameboy)

And you know what, the MP3 player aspect may have had some flaws, because I couldn't figure out how you'd get the damn things on there ('It can play MP3s? Really? How do you download them onto it?' 'I haven't got the foggiest idea.')
1. Connect your computer and N-Gage with the included USB-cable
2. Open the new removable drive you see in your computer
3. Drag and drop mp3s to the drive
4. Disconnect using the appropriate procedure
Was that so hard?

It needs to be simpler to control where possible (using a numpad to control is less than intuitive, so the manual is a necessity).

12 keys + d-pad is too much for you? How on earth can you play anything these days? The XBox controller, for example, has 10 keys, 2 analog sticks and a d-pad - do people need a manual to control it? No.
Re:Shouldn't be too hard to fix by Sentry21 · 2004-03-27 06:40 · Score: 1

*gasp* you have to talk into it sideways, that "flaw" has been hyped out of proportion. I find it more difficult to open a shell-phone than to align my N-Gage the right way around.

It's not a question of alignment, it's a question of conveniance and comfort. It's a lot easier for me to hold my clamshell phone than an N-Gage, and when I'm using my clamshell, I can hold it up with my shoulder for a few moments while I do something with both hands. Not so much luck with the N-Gage.

The bluetooth headset point is a good one though, I'll remember that.

As far as the games go, I was referring to the hassle of swapping game chips. This, of course, is not a problem when you think of the N-Gage as a cellphone which also plays games (so you can throw in Super Monkey Ball to play when you're on the metro), but Nokia marketed it as a game machine which is also a cellphone, and from that point of view, the device fails miserably.

MP3s - Working at an EB, we got absolutely no product documentation on the N-Gage. We got hype, sure, but we didn't get anything to tell us things like 'it comes with a USB cable'. EB Games Canada is the only Canadian retailer of the N-Gage, and I didn't see a spec of useful (to us, to tell our customers) product literature - only hype and marketing.

As for the numpad - When you pick up an X-Box controller, or a PS2 controller, or a Gamecube controller, or a GBA, you pretty much instantly know how to hold it. When you do, you find your thumbs right around the D-Pad or Analog control, and a set of four buttons. There are also triggers you can figure out how to use pretty quick, especially with the X-Box controller.

10 keys for the X-Box controller? Four that your thumb can reach, and two analog in the back. Eight, simple. Yes, there are others, but they're out of the way, and not meant to be used for things like jumping or running.

The N-Gage, on the other hand, is reminiscant of the Jaguar. You have 12 buttons, but little sense of which ones you should try and push. I tried out Tony Hawk, and had to try pretty much every button, even though only a few of them did anything. The keys are all mashed together with no apparant distinction between any of them, insofar as when each should be used.

To summarize that last point, the X-Box has four buttons readily apparant as important, whereas the N-Gage has 12 buttons with only one (the '5') as apparantly important. Also, it's a pain in the ass to push more than one (maybe Nokia staff have more thumbs than I do).

I'm not one of the naysayers that says the N-Gage is the worst thing ever. It has a lot of flaws, but nothing really big that can't be fixed by a relatively minor revision. Largely, its problems are inconveniances, and for a lot of people, those don't apply (for example, if you're not a big gamer). I'm also not one of the luddites who believes that every device should have only one function. I'm a huge fan of the 'global' from Earth: Final Conflict, a cellphone/video phone/radio/pda/datalink/computer/everything else, in one simple, easy to use form. The problem is that the N-Gage doesn't do anything that it does excellently. Perhaps the next version will fix that.

As long as they fix the datebook (or I can find a better one to replace it), I'd consider getting a version 2. Until then, no dice.

--Dan

Nokia should've launched it at CeBIT 2004 by motown · 2004-03-26 03:32 · Score: 2, Insightful

I don't get it. If Nokia was actually planning to announcce this N-Gage 2 this quarter, then why didn't they do so at the annual CeBIT tradeshow in Hannover this week? That would've been the ideal public launch platform. Nokia is one of the most popular exhibitors there every year.

In fact, Nokia was still marketing the N-Gage 1 really heavily at that fair.

This could very well be an April Fool's joke, if you ask me...

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If Nokia was smart they'd partner with Tapwave by Thag · 2004-03-26 03:53 · Score: 4, Insightful

If Nokia was smart they'd partner with Tapwave, which has a killer platform in the Zodiac but not enough games. Nokia has games but not a good enough platform. They'd have to add cellphone functionality to the Zodiac, but that's a pretty straightforward problem.

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Re:If Nokia was smart they'd partner with Tapwave by shrik3 · 2004-03-26 21:42 · Score: 1

They'd have to add cellphone functionality to the Zodiac, but that's a pretty straightforward problem.
If some prejudiced people think they look stupid talking into a N-Gage, how can you make them slap a Zodiac in their face?

A good idea by indros13 · 2004-03-26 05:05 · Score: 1

I'm glad to see that they are trying a revision. While it took them too long to realize that people don't exactly like phones styled after Mexican food, I think the idea of a game system-phone combo is a winner. Just like a digital camera, a handheld is something you often don't realize you want to have until it's too late. Stuck in a line? Taking the bus? It's there!

I'd imagine that the N-Gage 2 will still get a lot of flak because of its predecessor, but I'd be surprised if they make the same mistakes twice. I think it'll do well.

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Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.

Third time will be the charm... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-26 06:21 · Score: 0

Nokia is just adopting Microsoft's product development strategy: 'Getting it right on the third try'.

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