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China Blocks Typepad, Prompts Weblog Blackout

dcm writes "As U.S. Ambassador Richard Williamson prepares to introduce a resolution at the U.N. Human Rights Commission to censure the Chinese Communist Party's (CCP) government for increasing 'repression of its people using the Internet, democratic dialogue, religious expression,' the regime continues to block discourse.On Friday, China began blocking access to Typepad, a paid weblog hosting service in San Mateo, California. The communist regime previously blocked access to BlogSpot, Blogger's free hosting site. Yan Sham-Shackleton filed a report on the Glutter weblog, mentioning China is '...now using blocking software to stop information from leaking into the county via personal sites, an increasingly vibrant China Internet community, and a place where users are slipping in banned information. Some sites in the blogging community are turning black in protest of this event while others are reporting the incident.'"

29 of 422 comments (clear)

  1. Holding Back The Inevitable by ackthpt · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Block the web or not, information still floods into the PRC and it's like the dutch boy trying to hold back the north sea with his finger. Newspapers and magazines flourish which the CCP have been hard pressed to stop. It's like swatting flies with a hammer.

    Q: Why are the chinese communists so afraid of free exchange of ideas and criticism?
    A: They're afraid they'll have to give up power and find real jobs.

    It's not the security of the country tyrants desire, it's their own security. It's unfair to call them leaders.

    The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    1. Re:Holding Back The Inevitable by LostCluster · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Q: Why are the chinese communists so afraid of free exchange of ideas and criticism?
      A: They're afraid they'll have to give up power and find real jobs.


      That's exactly why communism looks great on chalkboards but never pans out in reality. It becomes hard to avoid eventual corruption in the leadership... a stable government requires a way to overthrow the leaders with a fair election.

    2. Re:Holding Back The Inevitable by RadGeekAuburn · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Because, as Plato pointed out over 2000 years ago, democracy is a dangerous thing. The populace can be taken advantage of - note the cultural revolution was supported by the majority when millions were killed, so was the Russian revolution which supported Lenin's oppression and later Stalin's.

      This seems like an odd tack to take in the argument--since neither China during the Cultural Revolution nor the Soviet Union under Lenin and Stalin had substantive democratic institutions. In point of fact, Lenin and Stalin and Mao each in their time took deliberate actions (such as the brutal suppression of the Kronstadt uprising, the dismantling of the Workers' Opposition, the creation of the secret police and the gulag, and, well, the Cultural Revolution) to crush local democratic power, concentrate power in the hands of party bosses, and create a totalitarian environment in which people do not dare to express dissent for fear of hearing a knock on the door in the middle of the night.

      (In such an environment, by the way, it also seems to me to be rather tendentious, to say the least, to claim to have any clear knowledge of what people thought about the rulers -- since part of the purpose of the totalitarian apparatus was to keep people from honestly saying what they though about things.)

      I thoroughly recommend you read some of the descriptions of the power struggles in post-Revolutionary Russia, such as Emma Goldman's My Disillusionment in Russia or The Workers' Opposition.

    3. Re:Holding Back The Inevitable by Uber+Banker · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Communism in Russia was taken down due to glasnost spreading to the populations, but perestroika not spreading so quickly causing popular revolt due to the intellectual influence and the initial presess of glasnost. In China the transition contains more perestroika-like benefits, perhaps because of the more aggressive adoption of a market economy and the more rapid spread of improvement of general standard of living (reducing the incentive to look elsewhere for political reform).

    4. Re:Holding Back The Inevitable by 4of12 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      When did communism ever look great on chalkboards?

      During the design phase, before it was actually implemented, communism sounded great. Utopia here we come! Not that it hasn't suffered from lack of trying. Kind of like Death March programming projects.

      To be fair, capitalism, also great looking on the chalkboard, grows warts over time. And much for the same reasons as communism does; the actual implementation involves Real People that care zero about other people. It's hard to program around that.

      --
      "Provided by the management for your protection."
    5. Re:Holding Back The Inevitable by spood · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I wouldn't consider the PRC to be particularly communist at this point. The party line at the moment is basically "shut up and we'll let you get rich". This leads to strange dichotomies where they wish to censor satellite broadcasts, but are making truckloads of the satellite industry.

      The younger generations are beginning to be raised on capitalism and American consumerist "culture". It's unclear what that will mean for the political future of the PRC, but fascism and unrestrained capitalism aren't entirely at odds with each other.

      Some other posts on this topic have mentioned the threat of the PRC to US global dominance. This is especially true in the economic realm as China has vast production capability while at the same time a relatively low standard of living. That gives the PRC tremendous economic clout.

      --
      ---- Just another spud server.
    6. Re:Holding Back The Inevitable by Chibi+Merrow · · Score: 5, Insightful
      a stable government requires a way to overthrow the leaders with a fair election.

      And a fail safe for when "fair elections" aren't, as well.

      --
      Maxim: People cannot follow directions.
      Increases in truth directly with the length of time spent explaining them
    7. Re:Holding Back The Inevitable by spood · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Communism does not preclude fair election. Communism is just socialism in the extreme. There are plenty of contemporary democratic socialist countries. At the same time, democracy (traditionally the "enemy" of communism due to Cold War propaganda) is not immune to corruption, either. It wouldn't be hard to argue that the "politician for sale" lobby problem is not evidence of corruption in the United States.

      The problem with "pure" communism (the reason why it doesn't pan out in reality) is that it doesn't provide personal incentives to produce - all production is seized and redistributed by the state. Similarly, there are incentives only to demonsrate need in order to obtain an undue portion of the redistribution. Under such a system, the dishonest are rewarded by not having to work according to ability and obtaining more than fair share of "need". The honest are punished.

      Even the U.S. has adopted many socialist programs (Medicare, Social Security, welfare, public education), but it's difficult to determine where the balance between socialism and pure capitalism lies. Allowing the market free rein implies that there is no such thing as a public good, which is difficult to argue.

      The more power in the central government, the more corruption, no matter what form of government it is. This is one of the reasons our founding fathers intended to limit the power of the fed, a lesson that not even the current Republican party seems to have taken to heart.

      --
      ---- Just another spud server.
  2. As if people can't get around the block by vapid+transit · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I've got to think that anyone with the will and some time would easily be able to bypass the blockage, either by using underground ISPs, satellite, or other means.

  3. Technically impossible by ehack · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It is technically very hard to block information on the net, without dropping connectivity. Of course, attempting it might provide a major impulse to AI research :)

    --
    This is not a signature.
  4. Re:Not surprising by ackthpt · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Say what you want about the present US Governemnt, the fact that you're allowed to say it here is something that makes us very different from them...

    Sadly, the gap is closing from the US side, for the good of the country and all that rot.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  5. China is blocking information, but US is blocking by PetoskeyGuy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    women's nipples.

    Which society would you rather live in?

  6. Freenet? by Eberlin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I suppose someone could just ban any and all downloads of Freenet-related software so that's not going to solve anything. For anyone who ever said the mantra "Information Wants To Be Free" -- THIS is what it is meant to be.

    Government-sanctioned censorship isn't anything new, though. We try to protect children with things like CIPA and the like. We've got watchdogs all over that won't allow us (folks in the US) to hear foul language over public airwaves, are looking to restrain violent video games, and in general trying to police what we do.

    I'm not saying we're communistic, by any means. Just saying that censorship is censorship. Not as extreme, but the seeds are there.

    In the end, it unfortunately comes down to "censorship is only bad when they're censoring something I believe in."

    1. Re:Freenet? by LostCluster · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The US brand of content censorship is more about truth-in-labeling than anything else. Offensive material isn't totally prohibited, just limited to be exhibited where kids and people who would perfer not to see it won't stumble into it. You'd have to try very hard to get access to the Playboy Channel without knowing what you're doing...

  7. Re:Not surprising by id09542 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I disagree. At least the American people can change things, the fact that the people want to be ignorant and not change things is their choice.

  8. Oh, bitter irony by WarPresident · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As U.S. Ambassador Richard Williamson prepares to introduce a resolution at the U.N. Human Rights Commission to censure the Chinese Communist Party's (CCP) government for increasing 'repression of its people using the Internet

    Somewhat ironic given that U.S. companies are profiting by selling censorship software to China. And of course, the U.S. requiring (or trying to require) libraries to censor the Internet, for the children, of course.

    --
    Here come da fudge!
  9. really, guys, what did you expect? by sulli · · Score: 4, Insightful

    these are the perpetrators of the Tiananmen massacre. do you really think they would hesitate to block a few websites?

    --

    sulli
    RTFJ.
  10. Why not the WTO instead of ONU? by neves · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Just other day the WTO said that USA had to allow on line gambling. China has just joined the WTO. Typepad is an for profit company, why not they also can't make WTO force them to allow access to Typepad? At least this shitty globalization would give a little help to free speech. At least by now USA and Britain aren't trying to make WTO become irrelevant as they did with ONU.

  11. Wireless blogging by ChiralSoftware · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Wireless blogging is going to be a way to get around many restrictions. Of course this doesn't help if they are blocking the servers. Fortunately these days there are a vast number of hosting companies which provide blog hosting. And wireless net is huge in China, with hundreds of millions of WAP-enabled phones. I think that the government will at some point just give up on this and realize that free expression is not that much of a threat. They should look over at the example of Singapore, where the government is very strict, but it tolerates a little joking commentary. The PRC will realize that people complaining is not the same thing as a real challenge.

  12. Would information really cause a change? by metroid+composite · · Score: 5, Insightful
    A coworker of mine in a largely undergrad programming group, student at the University of British Columbia, was from China and fully convinced that her government was downright awesome, way better than the Canadian government, and that the reports on human rights violations I talked about were just western propaganda. Come to think of it, I've never been to Tibet, I suppose she could be right ...theoretically....

    That's not really the point, however. The point is, everyone claiming that information = insta-revolution well...I seriously doubt it. A lot of people left Hong Kong before PRC took it over...and then moved back when they saw that PRC didn't really change the system at all, and things were peaceful.

    Seriously, they didn't really keep out outside information before; that fully explains the Tiananmen Square protests, as people knew that Communist leaderships everywere were falling appart so they wanted to try in China too. If people wanted a protest/revolution it would happen; I honestly don't think they do, and I don't think the internet will change that, blocked or unblocked.

  13. Pot and Kettle by oob · · Score: 3, Insightful

    U.S. news agencies stopped broadcasting Bin Laden's speeches at the request of the U.S. government.

    The U.S. government made the absurd claim that Bin Laden was "sending secret messages to his supporters" through his speeches, when it was blatantly obvious that the U.S. was simply interested in suppressing him.

    Understandably in fact. Bin Laden was making a whole lot of sense and sounded extremely reasonable when compared to Bush.

    The U.S. does not have the moral standing to criticise other nations. To do so is the height of hypocrisy.

    1. Re:Pot and Kettle by Bull999999 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As far as I know, you can always get Bin Laden's speeches from non-U.S. sources. The blame goes to the news agencies who agreed to the request of the government. If the government forced the agencies to not to air the tapes, you can bet that there will be a legal battle over it.

      --
      1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d
  14. Give me a break. by Rostin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't know which is more mind-boggling - the fact that this was seriously posed as a question or the fact that it was modded insightful.

    Kindly go to a strip club, get HBO, google for "nipple", or buy a magazine in a brown wrapper ALL LEGALLY and THEN tell me how terrible the US is just because most people who live here think it might be smart to not allow nudity during the Superbowl.

  15. Re:Not surprising by 4of12 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    the gap is closing from the US side,

    It's occurred to me, too, that the government/corporate system of the United States and of China are a lot closer in practice than people might think.

    Yes, in China you get these weird laws where "slander of the state" and "revealing state secrets" put people in jail for expressing dissent.

    But, in the US, if you criticize a business, eg, make disparaging comments about the healthiness of eating beef or provide a web link to a DeCSS site, you can get slammed with heavy legal action.

    In China, the government powers have become corrupt as they hand out valuable contracts to cronies and have tolerated cheating bosses not paying their workers.

    In the US, the government powers have become corrupt as they accept money from special interests to craft legislation favorable to those interests. Substantial growth in non-unionized workforce has meant stagnation in wage growth for blue collar workers in the US.

    Government policies are not far apart between the US and China; corporate influence will tend to drive them even closer together.

    --
    "Provided by the management for your protection."
  16. hypocracy by Easy2RememberNick · · Score: 3, Insightful

    First of all I find it very unusual any US politician would have anything to do with the UN.
    I remember on CNN after two planes, of the anti-Castro group, were shot down by Cuba, a US polictican ( Helms...Burton? ) said that all the more reason to continue the economic boycott of Cuba.
    The next story was on China and another politician speaking about China said that keeping dialogue open with China was the only way to make progress.
    If the Internet in China, and also keeping dialogue open, is so important, why not do that for every enemy or the US?
    China is so huge I wouldn't worry about the government controlling the Internet. They seem to be where the USSR was in the late 80's just before Communism fell.

  17. Re:Please help us by iminplaya · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As long as China supplies lots of cheap labor and plays ball with the world's corporations nobody's going to impose anything on them. The world's governments could care less about human rights and all that. They just want cheap stuff and big profits.

    --
    What?
  18. Not Indefinitly by brunes69 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    A properly constructed communist state would only require the dictatorship of the proletariat for a generation or so. After this time, no one would own any goods any more, and the only formalized government required would be for lawmaking and policing. The "communist" societies of the former Soviet Union and China are not really communist at all, as the parent poster said. They're really just state sponsored capitalism, and there are still people hoarding the wealth.

    1. Re:Not Indefinitly by jcr · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A properly constructed communist state would only require the dictatorship of the proletariat for a generation or so.

      Only!

      Well, let's see.. The first Emperor of the Red (as in blood) dynasty in China, Mao Tse-Tung managed to off about thirty million people in the ten years or so of the so-called "Cultural Revolution". I suppose after a mere 'generation or so' of this, you could form any kind of society among the dozen or so people left alive.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    2. Re:Not Indefinitly by jcr · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You can't damn an entire political system because of a few bad eggs in history.

      The hell I can't!

      Mao, Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot, Kim (Both the elder thug that Stalin hand-picked, and the snotty little elvis-impersonator who's currently trying to get his hands on a nuke)? The only commie I can think of who I would give *any* credit to would be Tito, since he was keeping a lid on a powder keg of ethnic hatred.

      If that were the case you'd also have to damn democracy ( The first French Revolution, Nazi germany, both examples of extremely violent ( even genocidal ) rulers elected to power through democratic states.

      Not exactly. The French Revolutionaries didn't hold an election before they offed the king, and it's not clear that they ever bothered to *count* the votes that were cast during the terror. At any rate, votes cast when anyone who voted "wrong" was in danger of the guillotine are hardly an example of democracy at work in my book.

      As for Hitler's rise to power, I'll give you that it's the saddest example I can think of where a democracy voted to abandon their liberty, nevertheless I don't condemn democracy because one democracy comitted suicide.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."