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AppleCare - How Many Problems is Too Much?
steeviant wonders: "I live in New Zealand, and have been dealing with AppleCare Australia over issues with my PowerBook G4, which has needed three replacement power supplies, one battery, two motherboards, a top case, and a screen replaced under warranty, and it now has another hardware problem. I'm not satisfied that AppleCare Australia think it is acceptable for my PowerBook to have nine problems in two years, and want the machine replaced, but they are refusing. I have scoured the apple.com.au, and apple.com websites trying to find some way to contact anyone to try to get AppleCare to reconsider their stance on this issue. If New Zealand had an Apple branch office, I would simply take them to court, but even that is not possible as their computers are sold through a local distributor. Surely Apple don't consider this appalling number of failures to be acceptable for a computer which cost over NZD $9000. Can anyone suggest an avenue through which I can contact Apple in the U.S. for help?" Sometimes handing technical issues defect-by-defect works, however it seems to me that there are many cases where it would seem to be a waste of time...both the manufacturer's and the customer's. Should manufacturers be required to replace an entire machine after a certain number of defects in a specific time period, or might there be a better way to handle these kinds of technical issues? Update: 03/31 3AM EDT by C : steeviant wants to let everyone know that Apple has offered to replace his machine with a 'like for like' model before this article was even posted. So, "All's well that ends well." for some, how about you?
It seems acceptable for them to replace it after so many problems. Unless you dropped it or submersed it into salt water or something like that. If they are the cause of the problem, you're not at all scamming them by getting a new one to replace your broken one. Few people would break their own system just to get a replacement. Unless you caused the damage through misuse, you should be entitled (morally at least, haven't read the warrany) to a replacement.
I work at Dell, and typically, if a person has 3 services within a week and is still having problem, or several within the past month, or a long standing history of problems, we usually replace the system if the customer requests it. the service calls cost somewhere around 200 each to our cost center, so as soon as a machine has a service done, we've lost our profit on it and are taking a loss. apple care sounds like its insurance though, so I guess they don't care how many times it gets fixed, since it doesn't come out of apple's pocket.
posting anonymously for obvious reasons
http://www.apple.com/contact/phone_contacts.html
;)
perhaps call australia's customer relations and seeing if you can get any help... or just call america and start working your way up till you get to steve jobs
So, my 2 cents... They shouldn't be "required" to, but they ought to, if only to keep their customers happy. The notion that the customer is always right seems to have been misplaced in the recent past.
;)
I don't know if there is the concept of the "lemon law" in NZ. But here in the US, I'd pursue it under that. For those of you that think the lemon law applies only to cars, you are wrong.
One thing I've noticed about Apple is that once you've gotten one of their computers, they don't want it back. Take for example my one friend who bought a G4 Cube a couple days after they were released. Now, we all know the issues that these systems had, but obviously my friend wasn't going to be aware of them with the system being a matter of days old. So he went and (imho, foolishly), spent about $3500 on a new Apple G4 Cube. He recieved it and started having the normal problems; randomly resetting/shutting down as well as instability. This was caused by the neato heat-sensor power button where you don't need to actually touch it, but merely pass your finger in front of it. Cool idea but a flaw execution. So he naturally called apple and after spending about 6 hours on the phone with them, they finally agree to let him ship the machine in. Move forward several weeks, he gets a refurb (they adamately refused to give him a new system), and it too has the same problems. Long story short, he eventually sold it on E-bay for $2,400 after 2 refurbs and gained a finely-tuned loathing for apple and all its products from this consumer experience.
Maybe apple has gotten better? Not really. My boss and I were at an Apple Store buying 2 new dual cpu G5 systems for Maya, to both act as render stations and actual workstations. We get back to the office with said computers, unpack, etc, and the first one is running fine. The other however, just refused to stay up; we'd start the OSX updater, and it would reboot not too long after. Anything really we did, it would reboot or freeze eventually. Given that the system was 100% new, we didn't have time to fix a new computer tha we just paid $3,000 for. So we repacked it and brought it down to the Apple Store, and after arguing for quite a while that it was not indeed the software (the system wouldn't stay up long enough to have anything installed), and after blocking their polite attempts to say it was our fault, and an hour later, we had a new system that worked just fine when we plugged it in.
So in summary, I'll say that Apple systems generally work great and usually do not have these types of issues, but if something does happen, Apple will probably be the last to really care. You can see these attitudes reflected in the problems the iBook and iPod has had regarding their hardware. I rather doubt the US applecare people will be any better, but it might be worth a shot.
"What can a thoughtful man hope for mankind on Earth, given the experience of the past million years? Nothing." -Bokonon
Standard fare whining about Apple. Here's a standard fare response: I have worked with many, many, many Apple machines (among others) in my life, both as a user on a network of them, as an administrator of a network of them, and as a home user. Apple machines are of great quality, with a few exceptions. I have several old (~6-10 years) Macs that still work perfectly, which I still use (since they're still useful). The only problems I've ever had personally with the quality of Apple machines are with the motherboard of my iBook, which is being replaced right now. It seems that the only large quality problems that anyone ever has with Apple machines are with their laptops, and that happens to be a problem with every manufacturer's laptops I've ever had experience with (and I've had a lot of experience), and Apple's service plans for their laptops only lack lemon clauses, so that truly bad machines can just be chucked. Next time you talk about experience, maybe you should have some.
dumb. w00t!
so it'll getted modded to -1. But here goes.
Call Apple Corporate. Ask to speak to a customer care specialist. Explain to them the basics of your problem. Before you call, collect all the "evidence" you can. I don't mean finger prints and dumb stuff like that. I mean, names, case numbers, repair dates. Make sure you have that in order and the first thing you are going to want to do is walk through the details of each and every repair.
Now here's the kicker. Also find a copy of the Applecare Agreement and have that with you. Find as many relavent terms and phrases in that document as you can. Example; "repaired or replaced", and "under contract", etc, etc. Also try and think back to all the dealings you've had with the customer reps you were dealing with. Yes, it's pedantic, but being civil and having common courtesy and letting them be the unruly ones can win a lot of times, especially with the customer care specialists, because they've only got one job, and that's to diffuse pissed off customers. If you make it easy on them, they'll probably give you things, like spare batteries (though that's a rarity).
Oh, and also send of a polite letter to sjobs@apple.com. He doesn't read them, but someone does, so get in line. Your patience may be rewarding. But if your all in a fit and pulling your hair out, feel free to suck on a egg.
Don't Ask Questions. I don't know the answers and even if I did I wouldn't tell you.
IANAL, YMMV etc.
You can get remedy through the Consumer's Guarantee Act, which requires that either the retailer or importer/wholesaler (if the retailer is out of business or no longer in a position to remedy the problem) must provide goods and services fit for purpose, and be of a sufficient quality to work correctly. Note that this act is usually (unless you get a good lawyer) relevant to goods and services purchased for consumer use rather than for business use.
It sounds like the device in question is not particularly reliable.
Do everything in writing, including providing them with a summary of the issues and remedies already attempted. cc the supplier (I think in this case it's Renaissance Corporation Limited).
If rarking them up this way doesn't work, for the small cost of ~NZD45 you can file a claim with the small claims court which will allow damages of up to either NZD3000 or NZD5000 (I can't remember which) to be awarded (which won't be enough to cover your losses), or you can engage lawyer and take them to court, and possibly settle for the amount you are out of pocket, plus consequential damages. In NZ you would be surprised how fast a company remedies a situation when a bailiff turns up with a court summons for a company director. You can get the names of the director(s) from the New Zealand Companies Office.
Fast, cheap & reliable. Pick two.
I have had one of my powerbooks replaced and I have lobbied on behalf of my customers on a few occasions sucessfully for replacements. There is no firm threshold, but usually after 3 major repairs (logic board, HD, etc) you can argue successfully for a replacement if you are still under warranty. 1st, like previous posts, gather all prior case numbers etc.... If you took it to a shop get their SRO numbers from your repair. Apple can look up the case history on your machine, but it is more important that you demonstrate that you are aware of the history and can communicate it. 2nd call 1-800-SOS-APPL and get an operator. Ask for Customer Relations. 3rd outline your case including any Case #'s, Service Providers SRO's, current problems. FYI Apple will never consider a plastic part defect as a reason for replacement. If you worked with an apple authorized service provider ask the Service Manager if you can mention him/her. --He/She might just offer to call Apple on your behalf. It does not help to get upset or emotional with them. Be professional. If you don't get anywhere you can call back and ask for Executive Relations --usually this won't get you further, but in one occation it helped. As a concession short of replacement I have gotten a free Applecare warranty extension on a machine that had a few repairs. As a side note, I have noticed a significant decline in QA ever since Apple shifted production to China back when the Ruby/Indigo iMacs shipped. Sometimes I wish we all cared more about quality than the price.
Your problem might be that your not getting exactly NEW parts to begin with. I worked out nintendo for a bit, and their refurbished/re-manufactured/repair models were always pieces and parts from other gamecubes that passed certain tests. You may be getting parts from other defective powerbooks, but the parts have passed the preliminary checks. So, it may not be costing apple all that much to replace your parts, because they just switch out working parts from defective models. Now, I have no idea whatsoever if this is how apple does their replacements, but it could explain why your having so many problems. Your replaced parts are not necessarily new.
Ban Reality TV!
I would wonder if perhaps the owner has bad power at his house? Maybe that is causing all the issues? It seems curious to go through batteries, power supply, and motherboard and not suspect dirty power.
This is a laptop, with a switching external power supply unit. I should be easily capable of handling dirty power coming in, clean it up and send it to the computer w/o any problems. Then, once at the computer, you have a power control unit that should be capable of handling this and buffering low power through the use of the batteries.
If dirty power coming in is the problem, then the portable was not designed properly.
(As a side note, I've found that you have to talk to higher ups at apple, and frequently, you have to get the place where you bought your computer to initiate the contact for you. I've had to do this for one PowerBook that had problems, and my brother did this with an early Ti15" that had issues.)
kiwi
When I was in grad school I was responsible for one of the computing labs. It was a hodge podge of SPARCstations, HP/UX and Macintoshes. The HP/UX system was for controlling the ASIC tester we had. For a couple of months it'd randomly fail. I'd talk to HP, HP would ship a motherboard, powersupply or whatever component they decided was causing the failure this time around. I got pretty fed up and I escalated it. They brought an engineer in and he was pretty perplexed for a while but he installed a power monitor. It turned out that a couple times a day our power would sag, literally on a regular basis. This seemed strange, I couldn't think of why it would be. Then it dawned on me: The lab next door with their super-secret project involving moulding plastics. They'd run through a couple of cycles (it wasn't production) a day.
So we bought a good powerbar and it fixed the problem. The HP 735 was the only machine that had the problem but it did solve it. If TrippLite is still in business and still making decent products I'd recommend trying them.
Chris Kuivenhoven is a thief, beware
A few years ago I had major problems with a G4 tower I had purchased. I sent it back through aplpe care and they fixed it, supposedly. The machine kept giving me problems. After about 8 months of dealing with apple and with my apple seller, I was getting nowhere. I had a machine that wouldn't work. By chance I happened to read a very small blurb on the back of one of the apple booklets that came with my tower and it stated that if I wasn't happy with the machine I could return it for a new one or get my money back. My apple seller called apple right away and told them I wanted my money back. Apple then offered me a free upgrade to the top of the line machine. I cannot remember on what piece of paper this was written on, all I know is that it was one one of the original documents that came with my tower. There is hope my son.
My eyes, my eyes! These goggles do nothing!
I know how I used the system and I'm relatively sure my friends would attest to how I have babied this laptop in the time I've owned it.
It has never travelled in anything but either my hands or a properly secured, purpose made and specially prepared laptop bag.
The power supply has a surge protector cable tied to the plug since simply using a surge protector at home does not seem to have been enough to protect it from voltage surges. The point is that the the dozens of laptops that I have owned or been given for work have not suffered any ill effects from the power here.
Does that clear things up?
Since I submitted this story Apple have agreed to replace my PowerBook because of what appears to have been a typo in the email I recieved from Renaissance, Apple's NZ distributor.
They still do not accept that nine failures in little over two years (25 months) is enough to warrant the replacement of my Powerbook. They agreed to do this before this article ever saw the light of day.
Apple were supposed to be contacting me today to inform me of what machine they would be offering as a replacement, but as yet I have not heard. Perhaps they changed their mind about offering a replacement after recieving bad publicity. I'll keep everyone posted.
You're calling me a troll?
Luckily poor defenseless Apple have people like you to rally around them and protect them from merciless trolls like me.
The problem is that when I pick the machine up, or move it, or sometimes ever just unplug it from the power it crashes. Apparently it's the battery connector inside the computer.
I've removed the battery maybe ten times in the life of my PowerBook, mostly to quote the serial number to Apple techs, or to write my name on the inside of the battery compartment and the battery with an indellible marker, so the wear-and-tear argument doesn't wash.
I was able to force the issue by going public with my Apple experience
I eventually received a full replacement, apology and a new, speed-bumped unit that's been extremely-stable since.
See the various stages of repair below....
http://www.djedwhite.com/photo/photo.php?dir=Defec tive_Powerbook
d _Powerbook
P owerbook
http://www.djedwhite.com/photo/photo.php?dir=Fixe
http://www.djedwhite.com/photo/photo.php?dir=Old_
Edmund White
http://flickr.com/ewwhite
I had this happen with the first PB G4. I was fed up after 3 replacements, customer service couldn't help. So I wrote a letter, posted it a couple places on the web, and mailed it to Apple's main address in Cupertino, CA, addressed Customer Service. A month or more later, when my powerbook was in the shop for the fourth time, I got a phone call from Apple offering to replace the unit.
Write a letter. This was some years ago, so their policies may have changed. Good luck!
If you think Apple is bad, wait till you hear about the the rest of the computer industry. Read about them, and you'll agree that Apple is still better than them.
People want awesome support and awesome quality products but won't pay more than 3rd world prices for them.
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