Slashdot Mirror
Best Sci-Fi Space Battles?
ardor asks: "Recently, while watching Babylon5, I wondered about the space dogfights in popular sci-fi outings. I find the space battle in Star Wars VI to be still one of the best in existence, and some battles from B5 are amazing too. But where are more good space fights? I've found them to be surprisingly rare. Most are very short, or not very big (less than 5 ships). I know, large & complex scenes are very expensive, nevertheless I mean some with tons of small interceptor & bomber ships, large/huge cruisers, stations, and so forth. Have you watched a really awesome space battles, and if so, what show/movie was it?"
One of the most memorable was from Battlestar Galactica, where the humans have been getting kicked around for three episodes, and finally their fighters have managed to fall upon a few Cylon ships. They're all about payback. They deploy only to have their avionics turned off by a computer exploit, then get to watch helplessly as they're detonated in a wave of missiles. I thought that "battle" was very well done in terms of dramatic tension, and hey, often war is like that. Just ask Task Force Z.
That show had some great dogfight stuff with more realistic than normal physics. Better than B5 B5 in that respect.
Battlestar Galactica (the original - haven't seen the 'reimagined' version yet) had some good stuff, but it was repeated over and over throughout the series.
In general, though, the more 'realistic' it is, the less spectacular it's going to be. *shrug*
I'll have to agree with your assessment of Star Wars VI (coming to DVD on 9-21!) - that was some fun stuff.
Oh, I just remembered something - Battle Beyond the Stars. Some good stuff in there, albeit a pretty hokey story, and even worse acting. The ship models were used in many later movies. (as were many designs from the 'rag-tag fugitive fleet' from Battlestar Galactica)
not big but good: Star Trek II: The Wrath of Kahn :) (produced by ILM no less)
:\
big but not that great: one of the last episodes of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine (don't remember which one in particular) - yes, you can stuff too many ships on screen at once!
while not a fight per se, it was still funny: the episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation where Worf slides from one quantum universe to another, and finally the Enterprise finds he hole that caused Worf to start sliding... 1500 Enterprise D's anyone? (and yes, one was semi-hostile and blew up another semi-hostile one - that was a small fight)
just getting silly and out there: the orbital fight at the beginning of the lost in space movie <shudder>
finally, while not in a movie, there were a couple of good orbital flights in Halo: The Fall of Reach - it's same that we had to loose Keyes in The Flood/Combat Evolved
Don't call me back. Give me a call back. Bye. So yeah. But bye our, well, but alright we are on a shirt this chill.
I really enjoyed the Stargate SG1 season 7 finale, Where the 37 Motherships and hundreds of Al'kesh (Medium range bombers) of Anubis' fleet enters Earth's atmosphere. Towards the end of the episode, Earth's mainline defense, the Prometheus and a fleet of X302 fighters do about a 5 minute battle. First to defend a small Cargo vessel above an Ancient outpost in Antarctica and later when the X303 (Prometheus) attack's Anubis' motherships. It's a pretty well done attack scene. I can't say I like the matrix like squiddies that O'Neil calls out from the Ancient's outpost, but It's still pretty good space battle scene. Bests most B5 scense I recall.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds -Albert Einstein
Towards the end of DS9's run, they had a few really good large scale battles that would really keep you on edge. It just gives you such a sense of the scale of a conflict like that when you see ship after ship get blown apart, and you start thinking "they MUST be running low by now" and all of a sudden another wave shows up from each side. Not to mention the suspense and the politics they showed before and between battles. Star Trek really is a very politically motivated show when you think about it. The bajorans as the jews, cardassians as the germans, klingons as the russians, romulans would be the chinese I think...the stories are definitely inspired by real world events and they can portray them with such candor because of the sheild of a fantasy world they can hide behind.
As for a small scale battle, I hate to make another trek reference but the nebula battle in nemesis was a beautiful portrayal of tactics and experience vs power and the overconfidence that came with it.
It was used in B5, ST:DS9, and ST:V iirc.
Just go see http://starwreck.com/ and their trailer. Now that's going to be THE fragfest of the century! :)
Deep Space Nine had some damn cool battles. "Sacrifice of Angels" was particularly surprising given that it featured a battle between 1200 Dominion ships and 600 Federation ships. The sheer scale of it was amazing. "Way of the Warrior" was another kick ass episode. It featured a fleet of Klingon ships assaulting DS9. What was so startling about it was that most of it featured motion controlled models as opposed to the CGI stuff we see today. The visual quality of that battle is amazing, even today. "Shattered Mirror" made a lot of people's eyes go wide as well. There moneymaker shot was when the Defiant went up against a huge Klingon ship and blew away pieces of the underside of it. They had to build a 20 foot model to film that! Eek.
Not sure it really qualifies, but there's an ep called "One Little Ship" where a minaturized runabout's flying around the Defiant. There is little that's more satisfying than watching a man shot in the chest by a photon torpedo. Heh.
I loved Deep Space Nine's space fx. To be honest, that show is the main reason I'm gunning for the VFX industry right now. Not only were the battles on that show unique (notice how one doesn't really sound like the other, unlike some shows that overdid it ridiculously), but man the visual quality was just top notch.
"Derp de derp."
I'll not comment on the practicality of such battle tactics, nor on the movie's total disregard for the book, but Starship Troopers had some interesting special effects during the assault on Klendathu--the bug homeworld. Seeing the Rodger Young and other transports lumbering about, colliding stupidly, and eating bug plasma was pretty cool--a good example of what happens when close formations of stupid people in big ships blindly fly over excellent AAA.
Ack. If they'd just paid a little attention to Heinlein's book. Sigh.
What'dya mean there's no BLINK tag!?
Book space battles are always better than movie battles. The stuff in the Forever war was some of the coolest battle gear.
The chase in 'Protector' by Larry Niven was pretty cool too.
Awesome furniture, accessories and cabinetry in Santa Rosa, CA: http://humanity-home.com/
DS9 had some awesome battles towards the end of the series, during the Dominion War, and although they were often short by most people's standards, they were still pretty long action sequences for a Trek.
B5, obviously. You mentioned it already, but really, the battles in B5 are some of the best that I've ever seen, especially when coupled with the build-up to the battle provided by the storyline. "There is only one man who has ever survived a battle with a Minbari fleet. That man is behind me. You are in front of me. If you value your lives, you will leave." (Technically not a battle, but there's one shortly afterwards)
Battlestar Galactica had some cheesy battles that were actually pretty good for their time.
The Wing Commander movie had some good space combat in it, it's really too bad they felt the need to lobotomize the plot into some sickening Hollywood "Ooh Blair is one with the universe and has magic powers" tripe. Really not a bad movie though if you go take a walk for a minute anytime you hear the word "pilgrim".
Finally, as long as I'm talking space shows: Go buy Firefly. It has almost no space combat (seeing as the Firefly doesn't have any weapons to speak of) but it's got the whole "no sound in a vacuum" thing going for it. Besides, it's truly excellent. If you enjoy the depth and intelligence of the characters and story in B5, you'll like Firefly too.
Random and weird software I've written.
I'd really like to see a fleet of eggs from Ork engage a fleet of Police Boxes from Gallifrey.
"Derp de derp."
Right on. S:A&B was the friggin BOMB. I loved that show to death, especially the space battles! They just got SO much right, and still managed to keep it exciting! /.ed to hell), clicky over here for a short (and really poor quality) clip of S:A&B. At first blush it doesn't really seem special, but if you watch it closely, you start to notice the little things that S:A&B got right. Stuff like the ship having to dodge debris, or how the alien fighter at that flys past them at the end cuts power and spins around to blast them while still traveling forward (momentum). Its stuff like that that made their dogfights so enthralling to watch. ;))
I know this is against all things geek, but honestly most Star Trek spacefights aren't that great... they tend to show more actors shaking around on stage than two goliath ships duking it out. The only show that even comes close to the greatness that was S:A&B is B5. They've got some pretty badass large scale fights... but IMO, nothing holds a candle to S:A&B. Heck, if you're feeling a little nostalgic (and read this before the server gets
Plus, the Wildcards were just badass! "Expect No Mercy". (And who can forget the forboding "Abandon All Hope" ace?
"The battle against the Borg in Star Trek: First Contact was pretty good. Didn't last very long, though."
It didn't, but man it was effective. Remember when they listened in on the battle over the radio? All those ships reporting the damage they've sustained, etc. Seeing a bunch of ships flying around and blowing up is kinda neat, but that little audio blurb was enough to make the hair on the back of my neck stand up. It caused me to imagine standing on one of those ships, knowing that if I didn't die, somebody I know did.
Then, to top it off, the explosion of the Borg ship took out one of the other ships that was too close to it. 500-1,000 people, isntantly gone even though the battle was decidedly over.
"Derp de derp."
I like the B5 battle where this quote is said.
"*Who am I*? I am Susan Ivanova, Commander, daughter of Andrei and Sophie Ivanova. I am the right hand of vengeance, and the boot that is going to kick your sorry ass all the way back to Earth... I am Death Incarnate, and the last living thing that you are ever going to see. God sent me." (they open fire)
--Ivanova
While reading the post I was thinking the entire time of the one at the end of Jedi. I guess another good one is the one from the 80's movie The Last Starfighter. Of course I was a kid so I dunno if would hold the same appeal now (whereas Jedi does).
/* oops I accidentally made a comment, sorry */
astronauts + laser rifles == sweet
KAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHN!!!
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this one yet.
Season 3 of TNG. Picard and the Enterprise-D must protect the Enterprise-C from three Klingon Bird-of-Prey vessels until it enters a rift to go back in time.
"Let's make sure that history never forgets... the name... Enterprise. Picard out."
What about anime space battles? Someone mentioned The Legend of Galactic Heroes already. I strongly reccomend Macross Zero 1&2, the battle scenes are really impressive. Macross Plus is very good but the battles are mainly one-to-one. Also Voices of a Distant Star is a very good story and has quite good graphics.
In which the commander utters the words *we've gone to plaid* is worth sacrificing a few space vessels for.
Best battles descriptions ever. Of course, you had to be there ...
---------- ovidius naso
Star Wars - the final minutes of the Death Star attack *still* get my adrenaline going, even after all these years!
DS9: 'Sacrifice Of Angels' - fighters! Wings of Galaxies kicking ass! Mirandas spinning and exploding right into the camera! Klingons to the rescue! The Defiant flying three feet above the hull of an exploding battleship! Geek porn!
The Last Starfighter - the CG looks cheap now, but the Gun Star was/is a fantastic design. Death blossom!
Starship Troopers - one of the few times big ships have been given a real feeling of mass, especially when they start crashing into each other.
You must think in Russian.
If we're talking on TV, then obviously B5 with the super-manuverable fighters has to win.
However, Excession (Iain M Banks) has to win for all-time greatest space battle, despite it lasting ~0.1 seconds. Several massive ships, all travelling faster than light, controlled by AIs, looping around and hyperspace. Somehow the speed and scale of the fight came out of the book, it was wonderful.
The best line ever is:
Rimmer: Step up to red alert!
Kryten: Sir, are you sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
Love it!
Wondered why the heavier cruisers didnt have multiple laser turrets, and smaller turrets to shoot smaller craft.
They do, sort of. Next Gen ships have omnidirectional phaser arrays capable of firing multiple beams coupled with sensors that can maintain a lock on multiple targets (DS9 had a scene in Sacrifice of Angels, IIRC, which showed a Galaxy-class ship firing two beams simultaneously from its forward ventral array at a Cardassian cruiser, pounding the s@#% out of it). The trouble is that this would make Federation ships far too kick-arse to use combat for dramatic tension in the plot, so the writers have to either: (a) have the crew do stupid things or under-utilize the capabilities their ships have; or (b) have systems perform unpredictably according to the needs of the plot (shields are the worst offenders as regards reliability, closely followed by the warp core and, of course, bridge control panels).
Wrath of Khan... yeah... Wrath of Khan... it's not every day you get to see an enemy down the Enterprise's shields and slice through it's hull with Kirk at the helm. He got through by the skin of his teeth, but he also got his ass served to him. "Revenge is a dish served cold..." - Khan
The plot was continuous and you could really feel the eb and flow of war in ever episode. The battles actually meant something to the plot, they weren't just TV versions of X-wing vs Tie-fighter, or something like that.
I could swear a lot of the battles and themes were based on WWII naval and air campaigns. I think it surpasses Babylon 5 in its handling of space combat physics (it was even part of the plot of some episodes). I love that show.. I miss that show.... being region 4 (Australia and Brazil among others.. go figure!), I doubt I'll ever see it on DVD... :(
oh, for those who haven't seen it: Chiggy von Richthofen is the name the wildcards gave an alien ace pilot, which was flying a prototype fighter. I forget what he'd written on his ship.. anyone remember?
click-clack, front and back. I'm not moving this car otherwise.
Can't say much for the dogfights, but I was rececntly very impressed with what's an otherwise minor detail in Andromeda's pilot show.
In preparing to fight, Dylan says he's going to dump the atmosphere in most of the ship to reduce its mass.
DUH. That makes perfect sense. In over 40 years of sci fi reading and watching, I'd never seen that before.
"I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B