Slashdot Mirror
US Expands Fingerprint and Mugshot Program for Visitors
prakslash writes "The US State Department has expanded its anti-terrorist fingerprinting program to include visitors from close US allies such as the UK, Australia, France, Germany and Japan. Everytime a visitor enters or leaves the US, they will have to get their mugshot and fingerprints taken - something that used to be mainly limited to your local police precinct. More news can be found here and here. In addition to the huge costs involved, one has to wonder if this will affect tourism to this country." Hmmm, a huge database of digital mugshots and digital fingerprints, which will be kept forever - hope we have enough RAM to search through it quickly and constantly.
I like the Brazilian response where they fingerprinted and photographed all visiting US citizens. The Americans apparently didn't like that...should be good all of them visitng Europe are made to do the same. Maybe it will make them feel about as welcome as us Europeans will feel in the US if they implement it. Mind you it will probably solve their security problem - by the time they have finished nobody will want to go to the US!
First of all, I have no problem with any country who wants to restrict entry to their country. I have a work permit for the U.S., but if they revoked it tomorrow, I wouldn't whine. I realize that as a non-citizen, I'm not protected by that country's constitution, and I'm not counting on it.
However, I do question the efficiency of the plan. I was fingerprinted and had my photo taken for a quickpass to get over the border called Nexus. It certainly seems like taking extra precautions against people who obey the law, cross the border lawfully every day, and pay taxes in your country is a strange focus for your limited resources.
But then again, it seems to me that attacking a country completely unrelated to the terrorist threat is a strange way to focus your resources.
Overall, this should be the decision of the people of the U.S.. It will certainly hassle visitors to your country, and make it seem unwelcoming even to the friendliest of tourists. It will also not stop the people determined to enter your country to harm you. However, it may make it a bit more difficult. Too bad it only takes one whacko with a suitcase nuke.
Personally, I think a lot of this stuff since 9/11 has been a knee jerk reaction. It's understandable, but it's completely illogical, if your goal is to prevent terrorism. You can't beat terrorism. By definition, it is the tool of the people who've already been beaten. It's a force you can't fight if you want to keep your principles.
I'm sad for you guys. Good luck though! I hope you figure yourself a way out of it.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
it's not the same. a better comparison IMHO would be gun conrols and getting a visa which is a permit to get into the country. Which is a good thing. So I think instead of making everyone feel like criminals by doing this, they should focus on a better way to check backgrounds, etc. when giving out visas. Also it would be a good thing to have very secure visas as to not have someone have their own fake visa.
I dont know if I'm making much sense.. alcohol is not letting me think...
I know you mean well, but please do bear in mind that other countries had this policy for a while. I can only point and laugh that *all* of you go through this now instead of just a select, singled out minority.
In that particular instance that I linked to above, the choice given was stark: if you go to that country, follow the rules *they* impose on your visit, or don't go. Simple as that.
It's not like fingerprinting you is really a big deal in itself, especially if you don't intend staying on in the US. However, the message that this sends out very clearly is that the country no longer welcomes visitors. Hey, fingerprinting is something that I associate with being done just before you're marched into jail, not otherwise.
A friend of mine is a US citizen. Passport etc. However he's also a NZ citizen.
Upon arriving at LAX on his last trip, he was taken aside and asked how he became a US citizen. What right he had to be one etc. It seems I was born here you idiots isn't enough when you've been to NZ, which we all know is the hot bed of south pacific terrorism.
Cheers Koz
These laws aren't meant to actually "work". They are just trying to maintain the illusion of safety. The "bad guys" already know how to get around these kind of things, and each new measure will be cracked within months, if not days, of implementation. In a way, it's already working, because the Americans are swallowing it hook, line, and sinker, and they're probably going to re-elect the guy responsable for the whole thing.
The U.S. is THE biggest arms dealer in the world. They have absolutely NO interest in resolving the Mideast thing, or any other conflict for that matter.
The Mexican border is probably pretty tight compared to the Canadian border, but there's not too many Canadians crossing over looking for the "good life". So, it's not going to get the press coverage.
Man, I would love to see a concerted effort by everyone to avoid doing any business with the Americans until they come down off their high horse and start treat others with some respect. Judging from the American farmer strike a long time ago, entertainment boycotts, etc., it's not bloody likely.
What?
The Canada/US border is vast, but people *are* watching. Chances are, it has been determined that you're harmless.
Ok, listen to me , carefully, NEVER buy ANY GUN that can in ANY way shape or form be traced or has paperwork. I SERIOUSLY suggest making your own (YES it is %100 legal, but you can never transfer it as in sell it only your heirs may inherit it) You can buy what are called 80% Frames or Receivers for 1911A1 (Colt 45) M16 etc, and cheap, these are the registered parts (supposed to have a serial number) The 80% parts are %80 done they generally just need a couple holes drilled, rails cut etc. Its actually VERY cost effective, not to mention FUN :) Then you buy a parts-kit for your weaponof choice these sell cheap, hell look up sten kit on ebay, the receiver tube is just a piece of exhust tube and it a quite effetive SMG. Buy the parts let them sit, then you know thell be available when you need them. I go on the assumption that the day I need a full auto SMG, well the laws that are in place now will be long gone.My Bren cost me 119 bucks with a spare barrel and 2 mags, it could if needed be put together in a couple of hours with an arc welder and a dremmel. Screw SMG, I want an LMG
If you think I'm being paranoid, consider that the 20th century's worst dictator's unleashed their fury against "cosmopolitan" elements in their societies. Both Stalin and Hitler considered "foreign" elements a threat to their rule and crushed them without mercy. Part of keeping your own population docile in ensuring they never have the opportunity to see how citizens of other countries live.
"dope will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no dope"
The only reason it hasn't already happened is because this pesky internet thing is here and they can't stop it and moreso, more and more people are moving onto the internet and getting their info from alternative sources.
You're probably right. I sure hope you are. One night FOX was speculating whether or not there should be "some kind of control" against "liberal" sites like moveon.org, etc. Obviously they're getting nervous. The gov't is trying to pass some new anti-pirate law, linking P2P with kiddy porn in order to whip up the troops. (old story, I know, but some house sub-committe(sp) just "passed" some new copyright resolution) My point is that they are already worried about the net.
What?
"Actually, most (all?) of the September 11 hijackers entered the USA legally."
Depends on how you define "legally." IIRC their applications were horribly out of order and if the people in charge of reviewing the applications did their jobs they wouldn't have gotten into the country. It's like saying that driving at 90 MPH is legal because you didn't get pulled over/tire spiked/whatever.
All in all, it's just another example of Congress passing new laws when what we really need is better enforcement of existing ones.
... a lot of the people complaining are coming from societies that are just as intrusive if not more so. The UK, for example, is rapidly covering itself in surveillance and traffic cameras, and refusing to divulge an encryption key when demanded by the authorities is a jailable offense.
What's scarier? That s/he posted that, or that I take him/her seriously?
I used to be highly anti-gun...
Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
A bit of an addendum:
:)
Obviously in the 3rd paragraph that should read "250+ million individuals."
And now, before anybody goes off on me about the individual faults of US policy (internal or external), I'd like to again state that I know things are only getting worse. It needs to change, but that is the way every country goes. The politicos grab power and impose law to keep their power. The people have to get that power back (or just stop giving it away). And even those methods don't last forever.
No great civilization in history has lasted forever. I doubt the US will be magic #1 in this regard. But this country certainly has a solid enough foundation (Constitution, Bill of Rights, etc..) that it can at least remain free for many more generations, if we as a citizenry choose to stand up for ourselves.
Anyhow, thats it for my addendum/rant/what-have-you.
- I love animals. I try to eat at least one a day.
I grew up less than 15 minutes from the US border. My family kept a mailbox in Northport, Wa., where my grandmother was born and raised. She later moved to Canada to marry my grandfather. My family has many friends in the United States of America, and I have relatives down there to this day. I spent nearly every summer of my childhood near Kettle Falls, swimming on the shores of the Columbia river, flying kites and catching june bugs. From the mountains near my hometown, you can see the United States. It's absolutely no different from the landscape in Canadian. All you can see to distinguish the two nations -- if you're lucky -- is a cutline less than twenty feet across. When we used to go across the border, my father was waved through. The border guards knew him well. As I got older, that slowly changed. Border checks took longer, the guards were more insistent on searching him, and even though they all expressed regret, asking how we kids were, much of the time they still spent time checking him out. The last time I went to the US, I spent an hour at the border while the car I was driving in was searched top to bottom. The border guards were rude, humorless and in-your-face. Canada is still exempt from this change in the laws, and I love the USA. But I can honestly say that if the laws ever change to require that kind of invasive documentation with respect to Canadians, I will never go back to the USA again. Watching the US over the last four years has been very much like watching a family member go crazy. I sincerely hope things change, soon, because I would really like to take the kids I will someday have swimming in the river down there, and show them what awesome neighbours we were lucky enough to have. Right now, I think it's even money that that will happen.
My wife and I were all ready to head to Hawaii inearly May to work at an observatory on Mauna Kea but after discussing it with her I've cancelled our flight. Instead we'll fall-back on some time promised us on a telescope in Chile.
This was not a decision taken lightly, but we just can't bring ourselves to donate any of the little money we have to a nation rapidly becoming the Fourth Reich and which treats its guests and visitors as if they are apprehended criminals undergoing processing down at the jailhouse.
Joseph Goebbels, the Third Reich's equivalent to Karl Rove, was a pioneer of the "wired office". He used radio, phone, and teletype links extensively. German had a very good switched teletype network in that period, and the Reich used it to control much of the country from Berlin, rather than delegate to local authorities.
We live in a world that changed a few years back and one that will never be the same.
And why do you think this happened? Because terrorists do not like Mickey Mouse?
I am an independent/idealist who operates on common sense.
Then please, use that common sense.
We, as people in the US, are walking around daily as the biggest targets in the world.
Why not do something about it? Why not find out why you are hated so much by groups of people? Why not try and step into the shoes of a 16 year old palestine boy who had his brother killed simply because he was at the wrong place at the wrong time? Why not try and see how supporting a dictatorship (Cuba before Castro, Persia (Iran) when the Shah ruled there, Irak!!!) makes the people under that dictatorship view the US as a whole? Years and years of dirty tricks and interfering and meddling in other countries' are causing what you see now. Why not criticize your government and tell them to order the CIA to keep its nose out of other people's business?
I love my country and I love my life.
Why in that order? Why do you put your country before yourself or your loved ones? Do you know that 'training' people in pre-WW-II Germany to 'love' their country no matter what (Blut und Boden, blood and ground) let to the rise of nationalistic fascism?
(...) kill for twisted beliefs (...)
Sure. Whatever you do, do NOT try to understand the other side. Just call their believes 'twisted' and be done with it. Thats so much more easy than having to think about why the status quo is as it became.
They were bombed, the innocent died, and they came together as a nation.
The innocent died; yes, this is exactely what the terrorists want. In their eyes innocent people on 'their side' die every day, while the 'civilised' world actively supports their killers. They see no way out, except by terrorism. And as I see it, the spanish people did not come together as a nation, but they 'rewarded' their right wing government with a clear defeat in the elections, resulting in a left wing government.
I hope people can understand and Turn-about is fair play if they want to mug/print me.
Either you never read 1984, or you did not understand it fully. This is exactly what Bin Laden wants: he wants the people in the west to have to go through road blocks, random searches, an overall loss of personal freedom. Why, because in his eyes we then suffer the same as a lot of muslims under US-backed governments.
Extremism is a world wide infection that if we don't squash it then we are all doomed as are our freedoms.
Sure! Squash 'em all. Just like the ETA, they should be squashed! Yeah, that's what really works! Just squash em long enough, and they will stop. Know what? Spain has been trying to squash the ETA for > 35 years now. Guess they haven't tried long enough, ey? Same goes for the IRA; they are illegal since 1936. Yup, kill them all. Once the current generation of terrorists has been killed, there will not ever be a new generation of terrorists, no sir.
Please get me straight: I strongly dissapprove of terrorism; I have no sympathy whatsoever for people who kill or injure innocent people. There is however no way we are going to get rid of this by the kneejerk reactions seen in the US and some other countries. Trying to understand terrorists and seeing how and why they came to be terrorists in the first place might just be more useful than fighting them, because you simply cannot win. History has taught us that. Please, for the love of freedom, open your eyes and your mind; do not let yourself be brainwashed by power-hungry politicians and their media. You seem like an intelligent person, please use that intelligence to try and look further than what you are being shown.
Wenn ist das Nunstueck git und Slotermeyer? Ja! Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput.