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Apple Extended Keyboard Lives Again
An anonymous reader writes "For all of you that have wanted a firm keyboard (like in the old days with mechanical keyswitches) Matias has released the tactilepro keyboard. This keyboard uses the same mechanical keyswitches used in the Apple Extended Keyboard. Alps was going to scrap the keyswitches, so he had to commit to buy 1 million of them. Here's a great review by Adam Engst." It looks absolutely great, and it's only $100 (though apparently backordered until late April).
FIRST POST!?!!? I really enjoyed these keyboards... But are they really worth that much money? Think of all the ramen noodles I could buy...
Karma: Bad (mostly due to all those "In Soviet Russia" jokes)
You can use these with a PC as well. If you've got a KVM to switch between PC and Mac, now's the time to finally use a Mac keyboard instead of a PC one. :)
Using my keyboard about 2000 hours per year, I've come to realize the difference between a really good one and a really cheap one. I used a PFU Happy Hacking mini keyboard for 5 years with no problems until it finally started to give out last year. I tried some cheaper brands when I switched from Linux to OS X since PFU didn't make a board with USB plugs. I noticed a couple months ago that there are now mac-compatible Happy Hacking keyboards with extra USB plugs, so I got one immediately. No regrets. This one reviewed here is beautiful.
From the photos, this looks just like an Apple Pro Keyboard without the Apple symbol on the COMMAND keys.
How am I supposed to make a buying decision?
If the difference is in the engineering, perhaps they need to show some examples of this premium key switch versus some others. I need a way of understanding what the heck is so great about this keyboard.
I would most easy part with my money if they produced a "dust free" keyboard. Don't look too closely!
I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
While the tactilepro is a very cool keyboard. This story is a little late, I'm looking at an ad for one in my old December 2003 Macworld. Nevertheless, Matias deserves support, the one downside to the Mac is you can't go pick up and old keyboard at flee market that the seller doesn't know the value of. As soon as I can afford it I'm going to buy one. Although by that time I may need to buy a ergonomic keyboard. This Kensington Keybord-in-a-box is killing me.
Win a signed Stephen Carpenter ESP Guitar from the Deftones: http://def-tag.com/?r=0008781
Kensington has been selling a $90 keyboard like this for about a year now called the Studioboard -- in fact, it looks identical to the tactilepro keyboard, save that Kensington doesn't put the option and shift-option symbols on the keys. (I'm not sure whether the information value of that truly outweighs the clutter, but I know that's awfully subjective.)
I don't know whether Kensington uses the Alps switches, too, but I wouldn't be surprised if both of these keyboards are actually OEMed by the same company. It looks like Matias has just done a much better job of promotion than Kensington did. I've had one of the Studioboards for nearly six months now (I bought it when I bought my G5, a purchase in a moment of weakness at the Panther release party--10% off! Now it's only overpriced! Shiny!) and it's been great so far.
My other favorite was a natural style PC Concepts keyboard with the built in touchpad. I'd love to have one just like that again only with all the fancy extra buttons you see on keyboards now. I refuse to buy a Microsoft one since they can't even adhere to standards in a simple keyboard layout and the 6 is on the wrong side. I just can't get used to that. Hell, I don't feel like I should *have* to get used to it anyway!
"I can be self-referential if I want to," said Tom, swiftly.
$100? I'd rather stick with my IBM Model M (the old clicky clacky keyboard) which only cost me $20 at a junk store. Now if there was only a way to get an Apple Key on it!
Not to take anything away from the Matias keyboard, but the current Apple keyboard is entirely satisfactory. Besides having a decent feel (the keys have a nice detent that provides tactile feedback), it's easy to clean on the top, and doesn't collect hair or other debris below its circuit board. Costs about half what the Matias keyboard costs, as well. No, you can't adjust the tilt as you could with the Extended Keyboard and the Extended Keyboard II, but I never used that facility anyway.
On one hand, having used every Mac keyboard dating back to that of the original Mac 128k, I feel I should know. But on the other hand, having endured six years of some of the worst Apple keyboard designs ever (beginning with the original iMac), perhaps anything is an improvement.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, write technology blogs.
There is another option for an excellent keyboard with the Alt/Command keys in the right place for a Mac user: a Sun keyboard.
= SunStore&cmdViewProduct_CP&boxid=%2523320-1271
I am typing this on a Sun Microsystem's Type 6 USB keyboard, Item-number #320-1271. You can order one at the Sun Store for $60:
http://store.sun.com/CMTemplate/CEServlet?process
or apparently here for $40.
You can even use the extra keys on Linux.
Here's a picture.
I saw these keyboards on sale at Dr. Bott a long time ago and honestly the cost threw me for a loop. $100 is way too much for any keyboard, even a bluetooth one, which this is not.
This may be a very nice keyboard, but to me, it can't be $100 worth of nice. I'm personally eyeing an iceKey to replace my pro keyboard. The only reason I haven't bought one is that $50 seems a bit much for a keyboard.
Saying "only" $100 doesn't make any sense, it's the most expensive keyboard I've ever encountered.
Apple, back in the ADB days, produced several keyboards for systems. There was a small keyboard that lacked function keys and had the escape key placed just right of the space bar, this was called the "Apple keyboard II". It was a very nice keyboard for use on servers or in tight quarters, there's almost no extra frame around the keys and the thing is very small and light. The sort of thing people would purchase today as an add-on keyboard for a laptop.
There was also a behemoth of a keyboard called "Apple Extended Keyboard", which included a full set of function keys (F1 - F15), two complete sets of modifier keys (control, option, command, shift), had a full set of navigation keys (home, end, ins, etc) and a proper layout for the directional arrows, and there were LEDs to display the status of caps and the other "locks". The ergonomics were improved with a 4 step incline adjustment and lots of spacing between sets of keys (function, alpha/num, numpad, nav, arrows). Basically the extended keyboard was a 101 key PC style keyboard built to Apple standards, and like a tank.
The extended keyboard has a very distinct feel, there is a significant amount of travel in the keys, so your fingers actually have to move to press them down and it's difficult to accidentally press a key without being difficult to hit the one you intend. Since the key switches are mechanical, there's a satisfying tactile response when you move the key and the switch connects, you can feel and hear that you are typing a character. This may not mean much to the people that "hunt and peck", but for touch typests, there's a rythm to typing and many times you can tell when you've messed something up just by listening to the rythym of the keys.
I should note that the extended keyboard is large, is has almost an inch of plastic around the left bottom and right of the keys, and several inches at the top where you could place templates for the function keys for different applications. It also weighs almost as much as am iBook.
I love the extended keyboard, and when I get my G5, I'll also be getting a USB-ADB adapter so I can use the extended keyboard on the new machine. I don't like the lightweight, light touch, short stroke keyboards Apple ships with the current systems, not at all.
Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
But the actual use of it was great, because of the tactile feedback (the keys sort of clicked just at the moment the input actually was sent -- sounds trivial, but on more modern computers it's a little lacking) and the audible "click" the keys made was also nice to have as an audible feedback (if you're transcribing texts and can't look at the screen, that's helpful).
So it's a lot of little stuff. Not something for everyone -- I sure as hell wouldn't go so far as to shell out $90 for it, and am satisfied with my current Apple USB keyboard with the G5 -- but some people really need that.
I do like the additional labels on the keys, though -- something that's sorely lacking on Apple's newer keyboards (especially the non-US ones).
My question is, does it come in non-American layouts? From what I saw on the site and article, there was no mention of other layouts at all. (The physical layout is usually the same, just the keys are rearranged and in some cases labelled differently for special characters.)
Cheers,
Ethelred
Everyone wants to be Ethelred. Even I want to be Ethelred.
Even though I'm a PC user, this article makes me look down at my old-ish Toshiba keyboard and wonder.
Does anybody know of a company that makes really high quality Dvorak keyboards?
There was also a behemoth of a keyboard called "Apple Extended Keyboard"...
I believe that one had an internal codename of Nimitz, as in aircraft carrier.
I think I've still got one or two in a closet (with F-Key template overlay!), if anybody really needs one. I've also still got a few of the original square ADB mice in there scratching at the walls.
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
I have one of these keyboards -- the feel is awesome and it lets me type VERY quickly with few errors. The only downside is the noise. I sometimes have to mute audio iChat while typing because the clackity-clack makes conversation impossible.
I had a problem with the keyboard about a month after the purchase -- it had a "5" and an "a" key that would sometimes double-up or not fire. Like Adam says in his review, this isn't uncommon at the beginning of the product's life. And the customer service at Matias didn't ask any questions and provided an RMA quickly.
In fact, using the Apple Pro keyboard while it's out for an exchange, is really hard now. It feels INCREDIBLY soft.
So, in spite of some problem keys, I highly recommend this product.
And to those cheap bastards who are saying: "$100 WTF?" -- ask yourself these questions: "How much time in a year do you spend at this keyboard? Is it worth a quarter a day to have a nice input device?" A comfy chair and keyboard are essential to my work environment.
-ch
they could make the keys partly translucent and add a backlight...
I use to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure.
pckeyboard.com
ebay for "Mobel M"
Ebay for "Northgate"
"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
figure out a way to get the keyboards they use on their TiBooks into a desktop style keyboard. After getting used to typing on this keyboards I can't stand using any other keyboard.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
I have been using a MicroConnectors keyboard for a couple years, and I must say it's been very satisfying. The keys have great feel and action, they click nicely (pretty loudly for some), and it's laid out exactly like the AEK II, with power button and everything (that no longer works to power on Macs since the G5, but can still bring up the shut down dialog while the computer is running). They go for around $50 online, and come in different colors, though I believe some colors are discontinued, and pretty hard to find. Graphite color is still available, and looks fine. The only complaint I've had is that the power key is pretty flimsy, and it WILL break off after a while, though I never use it (leave my Mac on 24/7), so it's not an issue for me. The rest of the keys are sturdy, and this thing has taken a world of abuse over the years, and still works fine. I even had to get another one that's still in its wrapping, for the day when this one gives up the ghost. For a great feel that won't break the bank, MicroConnectors is definitely the best option available for us Mac users, and I've tried them all (you suck MacAlly!). Unfortunately, I haven't seen them in stores, so the only option is to get them online, without trying them first. Comparatively, the recent Apple ones are incredibly mushy, to the point of being a pain to use.
"I like systems, their application excepted", George Sand (French)
I have ADB keyboards and my primary machine is a Blue & White G3 (upgraded to G4) that still has ADB ports and I still ordered two of these. Mainly because the machine is on a USB KVMA switch and I don't like having to keep so many keyboards around. And that it has a power key on the keyboard is a plus since I had to move the power switch of the B&W to make room for more internal drives than it was designed to accomodate. (The power switch on the G4 Cube's monitor, serving as the B&W's second display, won't start up the B&W.)
And as I have more ADB-only computers than I have ADB keyboards (are there any NuBus USB cards?), this will help that achieve balance. At least until I can get a good and affordable ADB KVM for them.
But I still have to have a PS/2 keyboard for the PC for some tasks like some Linux boot CDs that have queries that need answering before they've loaded USB drivers, and sometimes I can't wait the 15-30 seconds it takes for Windows XP to re-recognize returning USB devices.
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
Ah yes, the open- and closed-apple keys. Introduced on the Apple IIe, generated the same signals as button 1 and button 2 on joysticks and paddles. Control-OpenApple-Reset restarted the machine, Control-ClosedApple-Reset put it into self test mode. (Encountered a problem a user had where Control-Reset would always cause a reboot. Turned out to be a stuck button on the joystick.)
Morphed into Command and Option on the Apple IIgs which used an ADB keyboard but with Control next to the A and Caps Lock small and below the Shift key. (Nowadays keyboards for computers are arranged more for typing than for programming; if it weren't for Windows, the Control may have gone away entirely by now.) The Reset key lost its label. Command and Option were still the same game I/O button signals. Forced reboot became Control-Command-Reset.
Macs came to call Reset the Power key, as pressing it would cause the computer to power up unlike the IIgs, but they still had the triangle symbol as the IIgs used. The restart sequence became known as Control-Command-Power. Eventually morphed into a power button with the c- symbol on its back. Then it vanished from the keyboard entirely.
What three-finger-salute does one use to force a reboot from the keyboard now?
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
For someone who types all day for a living, $100 for a good keyboard that is comfortable to use and will last for several years is a bargain.
Do you ever hear about mechanics bitching that their Snap-On tools are too much money because they can get similar tools at Wal-Mart for a fraction the price?
I am still a fan of the venerable Saratoga Apple keyboard.
Unfortunately a muscle condition requires that I use an ergonomic keyboard (or suffer in pain). I really wish this company, or Apple, would make a good, inexpensive ergonomic keyboard.
I *really* *really* wish they would use that extra room in the 17" powerbook to put in an ergonomic keyboard... (I'll live with just the slant, and do without the tilt...)
-Robert
Ah yes, the open- and closed-apple keys. Introduced on the Apple IIe
Ah! I'm shocked that people would forget that the apple keys were introduced on the Apple III. The IIe came later.
Morphed into Command and Option on the Apple IIgs
This is _sort_ of correct, but skims over some things.
The option key was introduced on the Apple Lisa (which had a closed apple key as well). The Macintosh then kept the option key, but since Steve was concerned that the apple symbol was seen too often (it was used in Lisa menus to denote shortcuts) the apple key became the command key, with its distinctive glyph (_and_ the apple glyph).
However, the Lisa and Macintosh keyboards both had closed apple symbols. It wasn't until the ADB keyboards came along that the apple changed to an open-apple. This was basically due the new industrial design that Apple adopted at the time, and which could be seen in the IIc, IIgs, Mac SE, and Mac II. So as you say, and IIRC, the IIgs was the first to have both an open apple and option key, but it was in no small part due to the fact that the open apple symbol looked better to Cupertino.
Of course, an annoying side effect was that the positions of the two apple keys on the IIgs were reversed. Since a lot of games expected them to be as they had been before (open closed, l to r) this was very annoying.
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
However, the Lisa and Macintosh keyboards both had closed apple symbols.
:)
The Macintosh keyboard had NO Apple symbol at all.
Susan Kare was asked to pick an abstract symbol. She found a sweedish campground map symbol that's been in use ever since.
I'm actually puzzled why Apple put the "Apple" on the later command keys, since the symbol is not used in any of their software to denote keyboard shortcuts. The purists among us bristle at references to "apple-q to quit". Bah! It's "command-q".
(The IIgs keyboard was never actually sold with Macs, was it? I remember it having a fairly unique design that matched the styling of the GS)
- Peter
INsigNIFICANT
The Macintosh keyboard had NO Apple symbol at all.
:)
I stand corrected, though I admit, I could've sworn that one had crept in there by the time the Mac Plus keyboard had shown up.
(The IIgs keyboard was never actually sold with Macs, was it? I remember it having a fairly unique design that matched the styling of the GS)
Well... at least by the time I was in the business of selling Macs, none of them but Performas and laptops came with any kind of keyboard. You had to seperately buy whichever sort you liked, which pissed off customers to no end, let me tell you. They weren't cheap at all.
However, the IIgs design was basically the same sort as used in the Mac SE and Mac II that appeared the next year. The IIgs keyboard doesn't really clash or anything. The main differences are 1) the shape of the keycaps, 2) the grooves in the space between keyboard and keypad, 3) the upper area of the keyboard above the number row, 4) the small frame around the keys, 5) the positions of the control and caps lock keys. These don't really stand out unless you know what you're looking for.
The IIc was somewhat more primative in design than the IIgs (not a value judgment; it was just an earlier step) but there's clearly a close connection.
I suggest the book AppleDesign for more on this.
I'm actually puzzled why Apple put the "Apple" on the later command keys, since the symbol is not used in any of their software to denote keyboard shortcuts. The purists among us bristle at references to "apple-q to quit". Bah! It's "command-q".
I'm more puzzled as to why they used the symbols they did for Shift, Option, and Control, when none of those were on (domestic) keyboards for a long time. Likewise, naming the button command does little when it's nowhere evident to users that that's what it's called.
I think that symbols _and_ localized names would've been better, for all metakeys.
Of course, I also love the Lisa keyboard pull out help cards, but then, I seem to be much fonder of sensible things than Apple is.
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
A word of warning about ps2->usb adaptors: every one I've tried has a bad habit of forgetting about modifier keys that are held down a few seconds with no other keypresses.
Which sounds like an obscure case, until you're scrolling back in your xterm with shift-pgup... go back a while, pause to read an interesting bit while still holding down shift... hit pgup again and find that you've just sent an unshifted pgup, dumping you back to the bottom of scrollback. Pretty bloody annoying, I found it.
(Fortunately, Kinesis now makes a usb version of their keyboard. Unfortunately, it has its whole own host of bugs. But it's a nice shiny silver!)