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A Babe in Tuxland
Joe Barr writes "This is the kind of story that WagEd and MS would love to see in one of their astroturf campaigns. But this story is real grassroots, with a real Sysadmin writing it and a real granddaughter as the babe using Linux. A sweet tale, with tips on Linux for kids." Newsforge and Slashdot are both part of OSDN.
Tux babies, not Tux babes
-Colin
OK, how many people here were expecting someone, you know, kinda hot?
SHE'S FOUR YEARS OLD! HAVE YOU NO DECENCY ?!
-roy
Like everyone else I've got alot of old hardware that Windoze won't run on - but you can run Open Office, Mozilla on top of KDE/GNOME on a Pentium I and it'll work for kids quite well. No need to upgrade and shell out additional cash. And hey KDE Games are GREAT for kids..and they're free!!!
Yea, that's great. And when she starts having trouble you can just tell her to RTFM!
... have got me slightly worried. Slightly.
Hate me!
The whole idea behind this setup is taking the time to put the system-important screens outside of the 4-year-old's view, so therefore she could click around the screen and even get to the web without getting into much trouble.
A Windows-expert parent could set up Windows to be the same way. The key thing to having a kid be able to use a computer without breaking it is having a smart admin as a parent.
"My four-year-old granddaughter, K.D., hasn't had any trouble figuring it out, and if she can do it, you can too."
/. community).
User Intelligence:
Boss with MBA 4-year-old girl
Seriously, though - kids learn at some incredible rates. They pick up language, new skills, etc. so much faster than adults. We often have to fight through a lifetime of doing something one way in order to do it a "better" or just plain newer way.
BTW, the article is chock full of acronym hell if you're not pretty familiar with Linux (not so worried about the
These Linux tots better start their paper-routes and set up their lemonade stands early: Darl's going to be on his way to take their candy money.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
A pre-schooler using a computer, I can't fathom that! Come on, seriously, why is this such a big deal? When I was two I could use a Commodore Vic20. That included plugging in cartridges, using the tape drive, and loading programs... Just like Dad and without a login.
Almost a year ago my (at the time) 4 year old cousin was visiting my parent's house while I was in town. She asked for the laptop and fired up IE. She was on her favorite website (I don't remember what it was, Blues Clues?) in seconds. She knew the URL, she knew exactly where she wanted to navigate to, and she didn't need my help... I was utterly confused by the flashing, moving, and colorful icons. I couldn't discern what was clickable and what wasn't. She knew and that's all that mattered.
Now... If I sat her down in front of a Linux machine w/KDE installed and told her "this is the IE icon" (or however she understood it) you don't think she would be able to do the same thing?
This article reeked of parental excitement. Their child was interested in using the computer!!!
Kids know computers... I realize that they are saying that KDE is easy enough for a child to use... Anything in X was that easy. It's the rest of Linux that isn't so easy.
She was shoving the system tools off, "out of sight out of mind"... It's not so easy for a regular user of a system to do that. You might actually have to deal w/something on the computer if you aren't 2 years old.
Linux is getting there but it certainly isn't as easy as they seem to be making it out to be. I wish it were but it's not and while I believe in advocating its use to everyone that might benefit from it, I don't think insulting people by saying "My two year old can use it, so can you" is the best way to go.
Seriously though the issue is - how easy is Linux/Windows/MacOS/any other software if you don't have a handy guru to help you configure and then support you when it goes wrong?
The issue is not how easy a kid finds it when their dad is a software guru (though it's kinda cute, my Apple-crazy friend's 4 year old son is similar), but how Joe Public, who has no software engineer friends, finds setup and maintenance and patching.
The Debian Jr. project has been around for quite a long time. Its aims are to package and maintain a collection of relevant applications for the younger generation within the Debian framework.
This is very much an active project which is working with some of the other organisations. I myself have experimented with some of the stuff it includes with my niece. As mentioned in the article tuxpaint seems to be very popular for the pre-school age group.
The growth of these "Custom Debian Distributions" (the contents of which can usually be used on a traditional Debian install) should help bring free software into lots more situations.
Rob 'robster' Bradford
Debian Planet Guy
We are the apt. You will be packaged. Resistance is futile.
Has she compiled the kernel yet?
My users are dumber than 4 year olds?
Wait.. that's insulting to 4 year olds... sorry, let me correct it:
My users are dumb.
Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
Computers barely existed when I was young, but, remembering that the most important skill I learned in High School was typing, I introduced my children to my Apple II when they were in elementary school. At first we would type their assignments together on the computer; later they did the typing themselves. Their comfort level with computers allowed them to find jobs in the computer industry, and with luck they will be able to support me in my old age.
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
Yes, this is warm and cute and cuddly and completely precious. It's also complete and utter bullshit. Not that I'm saying it's not true - I certainly assume that it is true in regards to the facts of the situation. Howver, the conclusions it tries to draw are completely unrelated to the facts. It's a snow job.
The basic interface between MS and Linux is essentially identical. It's point and click. There's only so much variation you can have. And yes, a child can learn to point and click on Linux just as well as they can Windows.
But when people say Linux is difficult, they don't mean that it's difficult to figure out how to start a program, how to type text into a dodcument, or how to log on to the system. They mean that it's difficult to configure a printer, to setup the network, to install the driver for that new wireless card, etc.
I've been using Linux for over ten years, and it has made tremendous strides. An average user can sit down and install Mandrake or SuSe or Red Hat without difficulty. They can fire up Open Office and type out a letter or open Mozilla and browse the web. They can do all of these things without difficulty - IF everything works right. The problem is that things don't always work right, and when they don't work right, getting them fixed is usually much more difficult on Linux than it is on Windows. That's what people mean when they say Linux is difficult to use, and four year old girls, no matter how cute and cuddly, do nothing to address that.
"The legitimate powers of government extend only to such acts as are injurious to others." Thomas Jefferson.
It must be this script kiddie porn I've been hearing so much about...
Sincerely,
Pan Tarhei Hosé, PhD.
"Homo sum et cogito ergo odi profanum vulgus et libido."
My daughter is almost 3 and has been using her own KDE session on my Debian box for the past few months. I set up a username for her, so that I could log her in and know that she couldn't mess up anything I cared about.
We were gobsmacked when we realised that she had figured out how to type her username and password, though. She was *so* pleased with herself when she got that sussed out.
On her desktop, she has Mozilla Firefox set to go to BBC CBeebies - appropriate content for pre-school and you can't 'escape' the site, since all links are internal. She also enjoys using TuxPaint to draw pictures for us.
I'm hoping she's going to do a spot of Toddler Linux Advocacy at the local playgroups soon ...
"If you think the problem is bad now, just wait until we've solved it." --- Arthur Kasspe
As someone who's done his fair share of windows admin work (10 years, 3000+ users and PC's), I can tell you that the same is VERY true of Windows. With the exception of device support, which is unparalleled in Windows, there are just as many times when the shit hits the fan, and there's no quick solution in Windows, as there is in Linux.
Sorry to disillusion you pal, but you will. It's in the parents' charter or something.
(And yes, IAAP!).
Skiing? Check out The Independant Skiers Portal
Based on the complexity of the language in the article, we can safely conclude that the grandfather is of above average intelligence and education.
Given the warm and caring nature hinted at in the narrative itself, we can conclude that this individual probably married a woman of comparable intelligence, as he lacks the characteristics necessary to desire a shallow woman lacking in intelligence.
We can also assume that his children, following the usual human pattern of using their parents' relationship as a template, made similar choices in their choice of a spouse.
Thus we can see that this four year old is the product of at least two generations of intelligent people marrying intelligent people, with a clear value for nurturing their offspring.
In short, this is about a smart kid with a caring family who learns how to use computers. Not applicable in the workplace, as this kid is probably smarter than most the people I work with.
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
I don't know about the rest of you, but I hope my kids don't take a liking to computers at such a young age. I'm going to try to keep them away from computers for as long as I can. I'd rather them "play" the old school way. Take them outside as much as possible. Make them do more physical activities.
AirSpeak - http://itunes.com/apps/AirSpeak
I'm pretty sure a lot of four year olds have been posting as AC's for quite some time.
The problem is that things don't always work right, and when they don't work right, getting them fixed is usually much more difficult on Linux than it is on Windows.
I don't know... when I'm diagnosing a friends problem because "things don't work right" in windows, maybe a quarter to a half of the time I end up with "time to reinstall"... The WORST I have in linux is "you compiled your kernel wrong".
I think I'd rather debug a freak linux problem than a freak windows problem any day.
That said, my problems with linux come from when you want to do something relatively simple (printer sharing comes to mind) and it becomes exceedingly difficult because there is no clear, concise documented method to get it done. (Note that I found a document that WASN'T the standard HOWTO that walked me through this recently, so I'm not saying that this particular problem is intractable)
Pax -- Ob
My not-quite 2-year-old son has been "using" an old iMac for a few months now. He used to watch my wife and I on our computers, and would scoot up to take the mouse from us and try clicking things. So I took a 4-year-old iMac we had around, set it up minimally, and installed a few kids' programs (Jumpstart Preschool, Finding Nemo, and a couple of others), and set it up so he could just wake it up, grab one of the programs in the Dock, and go to town with it.
.DMG files out of each one, and have them automount at startup so he can use all his programs.
He mastered it very quickly. Now he calls it his "Mac-y", and asks to use it almost daily. We let him have a half-hour or so at a time, and he's picked up a decent amount of skill very quickly. He likes doing letter drills the most.
Funny anecdote: one of the first times we let him use it, he was having a little trouble pointing the mouse properly. I went to help him position it, and he pushed my hand away and said "No!". After a minute, he figured it out himself. Now I help him with very little and don't volunteer it - I wait for him to ask.
And a pet peeve: Why do all kids' programs require the CD to be present? Don't you know we can't trust a toddler with a CD? I have to make
-- Josh Turiel
"2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
...parents just don't have time to sit around and cook. In our current economic climate, both parents working is the norm...
Forgive me for being pedantic and going off for a minute on your otherwise insightful post... BUT...
It isn't that our current economic climate leads both parents to work. It is rather that the current social climate leads both parents to feel as though they need to make enough to have a certain amount of stuff (Keeping up with the Jonses) which from a standpoint of either survival or happiness contributes nothing. One parent working would lead to the family "struggling" -- but "struggling" doesn't mean having to walk for five miles to get jars of clean water. It doesn't mean sending the children to bed hungry twice a week to make ends meet. It means cutting their hair yourself. Or not being able to pay the dues for the soccer club. The time to cook is there. It has always been there. And we live in one of the richest nations in the history of the world. Even being "lower middle class" in the US means having enough stuff. It's all about choices.
Again -- I'm not saying that parents who don't make these choices are bad. I'm trying to point out that it is certainly possible to have that time back but it isn't the economy that leads people away from having one parent raise the child. It is the society at large.
I would have to say that explosives are the most abused technology in all of history.
So why am I headded over to my friend's house (a VP of Marketing -- no dumbass) this morning to help him get his printer to work on Windows?
I help CPAs, Morgage Brokers, etc., every single day with the same crap people say makes Linux "hard".
Look, computers are hard. Can't people see the forest for the religeous trees?! When you get used to one environment, anything else looks "foreing". That makes it real convenient to say "that... that... thing! It made me work at figuring this... this... thing I don't even have to think about in my world."
You are just adding more religeon to the noise. Windows is much harder to learn -- in many respects -- as is Linux. You just don't run into many folks (yet) who've had to go the other direction: Linux to Windows.
I've been using Unix for twenty years. Last environment used (before switching to Linux) was Solaris. Let me tell you, young whipper snapper, when I had my first try at Windows (1998). I about had a nervous breakdown.
I still don't like Windows XP verry well. It just doesn't feel right. Everything is so fucking hard to get done in that stupid practically-windows-only environment, with a command prompt that won't auto-complete! Why is it 2004 and DOS won't auto-complete?! Morons.
You're missing the very fact that in many, many cases, when "things don't always work right" you can't even get them back to working whatsoever -- as you watch Windows eat itself alive and laugh at you while it makes you play "pin the tail on the problem". It blindfolds you!
Some people have paid me thousands to fix their Windows problems. Simple stuff, like getting printers to work or their Outlook to quit behaving "weird". Thousands, because they keep asking me to come back to do more -- install this software, fix this little glitch, remove this spyware my daughter installd ("my computer's slow"). Translation? "It's too hard for me to do it". In my opinion, it is Windows which isn't quite baked enough and ready for anyones' desktop.
You want "easy"? Then everyone should be using a PDA or maybe a Mac.
I started my kid at 18 months. I setup my file server to start up gcompris automatically. I highly recommend it. It has age-based programs from coloring programs, to advanced math skills.
I started off with him just adjusting the monitor and sitting on the keyboard. 4 months later, he's still doing some of that, but he's much more interested in the sounds, using the keyboard, and moving the mouse around. I have him using a cheap $20 trackball (the crappy one with the lights in it) and he still hasn't broken it.
I fully expect to have him doing basic tech support for his mom when he's 3. by the time he's in school, he'll probably be the only toddler with his own laptop.
Why read the article when I can just make up a snap judgement?
A bit off topic, but I just had to listen to a similar argument used for circumsicion. He'll be different from every body else, so you better clip the tip of his penis off. I figure if he's that worried about fitting in when he's older he can make that decision himself.
Or the truly disturbing one.
"I want him to look like me when he's older".
I never understood that last one. Do the kids eventually say - "Uh no Dad, lets not compare units today."
Uh...anyone see a double-standard?
/. is not attempting to hide the source of the article.
Microsoft posting this kind of story and passing it off as real news = "astroturfing."
What I see is someone who doesn't know what "astroturfing" means.
Life is too short to proofread.