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Chipset Integrates Gigabit Ethernet, RAID, Firewall
EconolineCrush writes "Tech Report has a review of NVIDIA's latest Athlon 64 chipset, the nForce3 250Gb. The 250Gb is especially interesting because it's the first core logic chipset to integrate a Gigabit Ethernet MAC, hardware-accelerated firewall, and RAID across four Serial ATA and four "parallel" ATA devices. NVIDIA is even working with third party developers to help their software take advantage of the chipset's hardware firewall components. Looks like we've reached a point where chipsets will differentiate on features more than performance."
I totally disagree with the statement "Looks like we've reached a point where chipsets will differentiate on features more than performance.", even so far as to say that this is a disturbing trend.
That is the exact same strategy that Microsoft uses in it's operating systems. Security, stability, and performance are the top features I look for in a motherboard, and actually steer clear of motherboards with too many features...
KISS says it all
Open Your Mind. Open Your Source.
Do more firewalls make a more secure machine? There will be a firewall built into your chipset, your OS, your router...
I have a feeling it's got to do with pointless features more than anything else.
I know you are psychotic, but please make an effort.
But the Gigabit and RAID have been available in other earlier models.
How will we be able to patch it?
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
Will any one from OSS support it? Because all there video drivers are Tainted module
The security is only good if the user turns it on.. or doesn't turn it off as the case may be.
Just three more hours seapeople and you can finally take me away from this crappy God Damned planet full of hippies
But... Does it run linux?
:) I could actually have 8-12 in this machine and it be justified.
Cause if it's like the early nforce boards, I was much better off with Via's stuff.
Nvidia's great suff, but I just haven't been impressed with their provided drivers yet. Comparing several build ATI+VIA systems to Nvidia core systems, I have far less problems, hassles, and overall better performace out of the ATI+VIa ones.
Like take the Asus offerings. The A7NX's rocked, but the nforce eqivalent.. sure it had like extra nic's, and other goodies, just didn't hold pace with a clean linux kernel and 3 gig's of ram.
I switched the $150 nforce chipset board with a $60 Via, and ended up with a MUCH better high end workstation.
Of course, I guess not everyone needs 3 gigs of ram.
-=fshalor
"NVIDIA is even letting third-party software developers take advantage of the nForce3 250Gb's dedicated firewall hardware."
It doesn't say that they've published the necessary APIs and/or documentation for taking advantage of this feature, only that they're "letting" people take advantage of it. Does this mean it will remain closed and non-free like the nForce ethernet driver on previous chipsets? While they do release a "tainted" Linux driver, they don't allow groups like the OpenBSD project access to the documentation in order to write their own driver.
All that hardware off-loading of processing from the CPU is not going to benefit everyone unless they freely provide documentation for using it.
Here's hoping they release the necessary documentation instead of hoarding it like Intel has done with their on-NIC IPsec off-loading.
Other than that, I really like the integrated firewall for two reasons:
1.) It starts before the OS would have the ability to start a firewall
2.) It (apparently?) works regardless of OS (that's a big question mark)
Someone is WRONG on the Internet!
i look forward to seeing the documentation for these devices, so they can be fully supported by [insert any os besides windows].
oh wait, did you say nvidia? nevermind. buggy binary drivers, no support for advanced features, drm, and linux only (no bsd allowed).
I think we reached that point long ago. The chipset performance difference is often less than 5%, and usually less than 2%. Are you going to notice that in day-to-day activities? Not likely. Chipset loyalties, features, past experiences, these are the things that matter. After 2 years of rock solid performance on my Nforce 1, I would have to be hard pressed to switch to Via if they had a performance difference. Plus Nvidia's drivers generally work, and they try to make drivers that work no matter what board you have, just like their graphics cards.
Not that I'm a die-hard Nvidia chipset fan. At the time I bought the board two years ago, however, only the Nforce board provided all the features I wanted at the budget I was shooting for. The integrated video isn't horribe either, unlike Intel's Extremely Nasty solution.
Differentiating on features more than performance? I thing the legions of Small Form Factor junkies kind of make the argument that that bridge was crossed quite a while ago. They settle for less performance, and practially all reviews of those boxen focus on the features, and less on performance.
Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
I would say the RAID system has more business being near the SATA/ATA controller then the firewall does.
You have the chipset being the bus's traffic cop and directing everything, and on top of that, its going to analyze, though probably very simply, and scrub every packet that crosses it. It just strikes me as something that the chipset shouldn't be doing, if you really feel the need for a firewall on chip, throw it on a special NIC. On top of it, how do you update it when every problem is found? Flash the bios? I don't know about you, but I don't want to be doing that all that often. I think that putting the firewall in the chipset was a bad idea.
"I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
For LAN parties or anyone that doesn't want multiple computers sucking down electricity, it's a godsend. It'll be more secure than software-only firewall solutiions. About as secure as broadband router, I'd imagine.
I have an old computer doing firewall too. But I realize I'm in a minority on that.
I rarely criticize things I don't care about.
And the really nice part? When/if you DO stick an even better card in the AGP slot, you can still use the onboard for a second monitor.
For quite some time now, all of the machines I've built for our office have used NForce2 IGP chipsets, for precisely those reasons. A board that costs $100 (or less), is rock-solid, has terrific driver support, stellar performance, sound, network, etc. makes my life very, very easy. In fact, $450 will put together a VERY nice system (sans monitor) based on them.
Plus, the fact that they'll play quite a few games (Q3, WarCraft III, Counter-Strike) incredibly well makes staying late very enjoyable....
As a matter of fact, I'm going to upgrade my machine at home in the next month or two, and chances are that I'll keep using the same boards!
steve
Oh, you're not stuck, you're just unable to let go of the onion rings.
I realize you were making a joke but it reminded me of something that I think a lot of people around here will find interesting and intriguing. Check out the briQ. It's an entire PowerPC-based computer that has been squeezed into a 5.25" chassis (the size of an optical drive). So, while you can't have a Mac (per se) in your PC, you can have a computer that can run Mac OS. How freaky is that?
I'd be careful with hardware RAID. What do you do when your RAID chip explodes and you can't buy a replacement mobo? Since you don't know how the hardware RAID device puts data on the discs, when you lose the chip you lose the data. Software seems worth the performance hit* for knowing that plugging the discs back into ANY ATA device gets your data back.
* And software is fast enough for SATA. If you're using Ultrafast FibreChannel or something then you might like the hardware RAID better...
My other car is first.
You're kidding about the XP firewall, right? In the version that ships with vanilla XP and SP1, calling it worthless would probably be an understatement. You're the first person I've heard that takes it anywhere near seriously.
That said, SP2 will ship with a much improved firewall that could be called a Zone Alarm lite, but honestly, my preference is still for a hardware level firewall. The reason for this is you're stopping the traffic before it ever touches the system, helping to stop a vulnerability in software from turning into a break-in of the actual system.
This is good stuff, people! Really!
Once we get past the "dumb beast" stage, the stage at which we believe bigger-is-better (in this field, more MHz), we reach a point where quality and smart features that are useful in today's world are what differentiates products. I've wished the market supported proper chipsatz (I just like how it sounds in German say it, so shoot me) development for a long time, now this news seems like bringing that a step closer to reality. It's a known fact that Intel, when they were interested in doing so, produced kick-ass chipsets. BX440 ring a bell?
These are smart features. Features that a lot of people will make good use of. But make no mistake - these are not marketing gimmicks (at least generally speaking) - these are not your useless AMR slots of yesteryear!
We are paying a lot of money for diminishing-return upgrades until these feature trends start being implemented. The fact that your computer calculates an Excel formula in 1/100th of a second faster than mine is not worth anything in reality, yet people are wasting good money on perceived upgrades. Yes, it's very nice that you get 1000 fps in your FPS of choice. using a Radeon 9800 Pro. My older now-$50 card gets 200 fps, which is fine for me. In fact, my monitor can't even display it that fast, and your LCD sure as heck can't! What I really want is to get rid of that firewall sitting next to my machine, with it's brick-style power adapter (anyone listening? get rid of those things!). What I really want is SATA RAID-5. Or thereabouts. It makes sense. We're ready for it. It's just a matter of time till someone steps in and delivers it. No more BS!
No more BS, no more RAMBUSsing, no more HyperBS-ing, no more FXing, no more Presscotting! Just do it, do it well, do it right! We'll buy it! We're buying your crap now, you can only profit by doing something smart and giving us what we really want.
P.S. Hat's off to nVidia for the nForce2, I hope the nForce3 250Gb is equally good in it's market. Although I'd change the name.
Must-not-watch TV!
It starts up along with your system, so you don't have to worry about malware infecting your system during the short period between booting your system and the operating system and necessary drivers loading up.
Any system that starts networking *before* a software firewall intended to protect the machine from the network is BAD -- Broken As Designed.
It starts up along with your system, so you don't have to worry about malware infecting your system during the short period between booting your system and the operating system and necessary drivers loading up.
This is a Windows thing I presume? Don't know how the rest of the world works, but when my firewalled servers start, everything is "denied" while the interfaces are brought up. Once that happens, it loads my ruleset.
Fred
"A fool and his freedom are soon parted"
-RMS
Since the popularity of on-board software raid over the years, it seems that manufacturer Linux support has been nonexistent to mediocre at best.
Most of the cheap 'IDE/SATA RAID' chips and cards (those that don't have on-board RAM) are nothing more than a glorified software RAID driver and a on-card BIOS that enables booting from the RAID.
Except for the boot support, you get exactly the same with Linux software RAID - and with the added bonus that you can use any SCSI and IDE/SATA disk connected to any controller in the RAID.
If J.K.R wrote Windows: Puteulanus fenestra mortalis!
You've obviously never used an Nforce motherboard under linux
From my experiance one's useally able to turn off all the unused motherboard crap in the BIOS.