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When Videogames Know They're Videogames

An anonymous reader writes "In 'I Never Metagame I Didn't Like', AllRPG.com goes into a discussion of metagaming - what it is and some games which feature it. The piece explains: 'Metagames show awareness of their nature as games. These games ignore all pretense of being a representation of a reality--rather, they know that they're polygons on a screen', and goes on to reference titles such as Earthbound and Metal Gear Solid as examples." Are there other examples of titles which address the player in this awfully postmodern way?

150 comments

  1. Metagaming? by geminidomino · · Score: 1, Redundant

    Does anyone else remember when it was called "Breaking/Breaching the 4th wall?"

    "Metagaming" sounds like playing a game of characters playing a game (Remember the special opening movie on Summoner?)

    1. Re:Metagaming? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Excuse me in my expression, but please RTFA, as some would say ("Read the f***ing article") -- it's not even that long and it's quite interesting. To reply to your question, I'll take a quote from the article ;-).

      It's very similar to when a character in a movie will look at the camera and toss off a one-liner to the audience. It's called "breaking the fourth wall"--showing an awareness of audience, of existence not as reality but as movie, or book, or videogame.
    2. Re:Metagaming? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I guess WarioWare Inc fits in perfectly then.

    3. Re:Metagaming? by Sancho · · Score: 1

      I didn't, until the article mentioned it.

    4. Re:Metagaming? by Robmonster · · Score: 1

      I must admit I also thought metagaming meant including whole games within your own ghame, akin to The Day Of The Tentacle including the whole game of Maniac Mansion, and to a certain extent when your character in Final Fantast 7 plays the submarine game, or chocobo racing.

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    5. Re:Metagaming? by Entropius · · Score: 1

      Metagaming is a PnP-RPG term for using information that you know, but that your character doesn't.

      For instance, if the DM asks everyone to roll a d20, without telling them what it's for, and the party wizard then casts detect magic, that's metagaming.

  2. Disagree. by Bagels · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I'd have to disgree at least partly with the two examples given. Though at times they might break the third wall (say, with Psycho Mantis in MGS) or simply not take themselves seriously (all of Earthbound) for the vast majority of the game the player character seems unaware - or at least unaffected by - the fact that they are in games.

    Little moments of that sort of third-wall breaking can be good to relieve the monotony, however. I particularly like the little voice that harangues you whenever you pause in Viewtiful Joe ("OK, is it number one, or number two?")

    --
    --- Bwah?
    1. Re:Disagree. by GearType2 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      umm... in EarthBound they make many mentions to the player, the controller (you know the top yellow button, *whoops I said that! I meant to think it* AH I'm saying what I'm thinking and thinking what I'm saying! *oops!*) and in mgs they made multiple mentions, one of the main parts of the game relies on you to find your cd case so you can find meryl's radio frequency.

    2. Re:Disagree. by mikedaisey · · Score: 0, Redundant


      You mean the fourth wall.

    3. Re:Disagree. by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      .. in old adventure games the characters very often made comments about them being game characters, and saying stuff to the player.

      lucas & sierra & etc..

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    4. Re:Disagree. by AnotherFreakboy · · Score: 1

      That whole CD case thing really annoyed me in MGS. Not because I didn't have the CD case, I did, but because you get told to read the radio frequency off the CD case just after you get a CD in game. It took me ages of screwing about to work out that the CD I was just given in game has nothing to do with the CD case I was meant to be looking at for the radio frequency.

      --
      Why not get the real ultimate power?
    5. Re:Disagree. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's the fourth wall. Or is this some kind of "hip" game only literary terminology?

    6. Re:Disagree. by DeadScreenSky · · Score: 1

      Just one more example of Kojima's 'great' game design skills...

      --
      There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion. -- Francis Bacon
  3. This author is a bit too late by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    "and some games which feature it"

    Metagames exist in every game. This term has been coined long before this author thought it up, but really he's just talking about particular games' self awareness (to which the term Metagame does not apply).

    A Metagame is the game that goes on in the players mind, when *they* step past the suspension of disbelief to tackle the actual game mechanics, and not the fantasy scenarios involved.
    A good example of this would be a First Person Shooter. The "game" is where you, as John Doe Mercenary must blow your way past the Evil Terrorist Organization, using all available weaponry to eliminate your foes and survive.
    The "Metagame" in this example is really how quickly and acurrately you can move the mouse and click while using the arrow keys to avoid incoming hits. That is the *true* challenge of the game; hence: "metagame".

    I think this author should read up a bit on common game design theories and philosophy before tackling another subject like this. All he's really doing is trying to coin a term that has been in common use in the game design field for several years.

    1. Re:This author is a bit too late by bigwang · · Score: 1

      I find this comment intriguing, yet confusing. Do any current games use this?

    2. Re:This author is a bit too late by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the difference is that in fps games and the like, the developers try their best to make the game so immersive that you don't think "I need to push left to cause my character to dodge that representation of a missile". If they did a good job you think "I need to dodge to the left or that missile is going to hit me".

      It sounds like the author of this article is talking about when the game developers break down that wall as a gameplay choice, rather than as a result of poor game design. To me, you know you're really metagaming not when you think about using the controller, but when you start thinking about the game engine and how you can use what you know about it to your advantate. Like getting an enemy stuck on a corner and blasting the tiny piece of their shoulder that you can see. Things that you know will work because of how the game was made, not how it was meant to be played.

    3. Re:This author is a bit too late by kisrael · · Score: 1

      All he's really doing is trying to coin a term that has been in common use in the game design field for several years.

      Does anyone have any cites for that?

      I don't think "metagame" is the appropriate term for what you said or for the main thrust of the article; only the article's example, of say, the characters in the game playing a game themselves meets the usual definition. The article is mostly talking about breaking the 4th wall (which seems about as good a term as any...dumbest example I konw of is yoda saying "double tap B to double jump, you must" in Rogue Squadron 3), and you seem to talk about...like, the game mechanics. (If something were the "true" anything, that doesn't make it "meta-")

      --
      SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
    4. Re:This author is a bit too late by JabberWokky · · Score: 1
      Does anyone have any cites for that?

      Sure. Do a Google search for "metagaming". The term has been used since at least the 80s by pen and paper RPGers. You can find it all over the web in FAQs on LARPs, video game walkthrough guide sites and essays on the nature of gaming.

      Dear lhord - not difficult to find cites; you're buried under them with a simple visit to Google.

      --
      Evan

      --
      "$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
    5. Re:This author is a bit too late by kisrael · · Score: 1

      Actually, not really; nothing in at least the first page of Google hits blatantly deals with the term in the usage you describe. Mostly it's a name for websites and comics and companies and projects.

      --
      SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
    6. Re:This author is a bit too late by MilenCent · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Actually, neither you nor the article have the definition I'm aware of. I've always understood metagaming to be the "game around the game." Like in a tournament, the metagame is the tournament structure. A series of little games of chess, football, SoulCalibur, etc., determine the winner in the big game.

      Metagaming can also be used to refer to the interactions of the players around the game. Like playing a game as part of a bar bet. The bet is the metagame. While I don't have a source document handy, I'm fairly sure that this is common usage in the game design community -- I've read this in multiple places.

      The prefix meta- is often vague due to the sheer number of situations to which it can be applied. I'm willing to let the author make his point, which I think is insightful, without tearing him down over the use or misuse of a term.

    7. Re:This author is a bit too late by jackbird · · Score: 2, Informative
      OK, then,

      Salen, K. & Zimmerman, E. Rules of Play: Game Design Fundamentals, Cambridge, MA: MIT Press, Chap. 28

      Those authors also reference an essay called "Metagames," by one Richard Garfield, in Horsemen of the Apocalypse: Essays on roleplaying, London:Jolly Roger Games, 2000

    8. Re:This author is a bit too late by Hamled · · Score: 1

      The point of the grandparent's definition of metagaming is that the actual thinking outside of the game context is because of the player, not the game. There wouldn't be any games that use this, although the game examples cited in the article might encourage this type of behavior by not taking themselves seriously.

    9. Re:This author is a bit too late by AnotherFreakboy · · Score: 1
      The metagame (or meta-tournament) is used in M:tG to refer to the act of deciding what deck to play on the basis of what decks you are likely to face. Something along the lines of "I'll probably see a lot of creatures, so I'll play a deck with a lot of creature removal."

      To give a sport analogy for the CCG-geekishness impaired it would be like saying "In the next tournament we are likely to see defensive strategy X, so we will practise offensive strategy Y to defeat it."

      It does not affect your playing ability directly, but using the metagame to your advantage is one of the keys to winning.

      --
      Why not get the real ultimate power?
    10. Re:This author is a bit too late by MilenCent · · Score: 1

      Come to think of it, I've heard this usage. Damn it, that's four meanings now!

      Actually, since it determines if you win or lose the "primary" game, in a rock-scissors-paper kind of way, it could be argued that it is actually part of it.

      I don't know if that would be argued *by me*, though. It's 4 in the morning as I write this and I'm not entirely sure I exist right now.

    11. Re:This author is a bit too late by arkanes · · Score: 1

      MtG was designed largely because of Richard Garfields interest in metagaming (theres a number of interviews where he talks about the metagame in Diplomacy, where if you have a habit of betraying alliances, people won't ally with you even if you haven't betrayed them _in that game_). Making the metagame part of the game was something he was actively trying to do.

    12. Re:This author is a bit too late by geekboy2k · · Score: 1

      Heh - I always play a "metagame" with the game designers. "What in the hell were they thinking when they decided you need to do X to continue"? (See above post on Sega "X-men game" - boy I am glad I didn't play THAT one!)

    13. Re:This author is a bit too late by tehcyder · · Score: 1
      All he's really doing is trying to coin a term that has been in common use in the game design field for several years.
      No, what the author is doing is transferring a term from literary criticism. The phrase "metatext" would precisely be used in post-modernist criticism for those texts which point to themselves and say "this is a book, not reality", i.e. show self-referencing tendencies.

      I don't know how long the word has been used in game design theories, but the confusion seems unfortunate.

      Incidentlaly, the term "metaphysics" (which is where all these meta-somethings started) came about when Aristotle's writings were organised with the philosophical stuff after the Physics.

      • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphysics
      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  4. Meta-reviews by richie2000 · · Score: 2, Funny

    At least his footnotes know they are footnotes.

    --
    Money for nothing, pix for free
  5. I never could get far in Metal Gear Solid... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    ... because I have a copied version of the game, you insensitive clod!

    1. Re:I never could get far in Metal Gear Solid... by chaoaretasty · · Score: 1

      Sunday 11th April: Sony announce that after long term testing of a new copy protection method (in collaboration with companies such as Konami) all future games will feature this new technology called MetaReality. MR works by gamers having to physically use part of the gaming material to progress, whereas other forms of copy protection are software based and so can be easily circumvented before pirated copies are distributed. Many developers are looking at this new technology and seeing what they can do with it, some even taking it beyond the idea of just an anti-piracy measure, but to expand the game itself. One lead designer we spoke to was particually interested in it. "I believe that using this new MetaReality technology we can enhance the gaming experience beyond gaming itself. Previously we have only tested in in small ways, such as by making people read the manual (which the manual designers really liked, they complained too many people just ignored it and their efforts were ignored by the community) but now we are considering much larger plans. One of our new games revolves around a cyber crime syndicate and we believe we can incorporate MR technology so that players will not only think they are playing the hacker but can BE the hacker, we've even planned a level where you have to hack into a random bank account and transfer it to an off shore bank account. By incorporating MR in this level we'd make the user actually hack a bank account and put the details into the game to proceed, we'd place the account details on a card we insert into the game box, and by collecting the results of this mission we can make sure people can't reuse the same old accounts, to progress they'd have to buy a new game and get a new account to hack." Of course there are groups against the new technology. Worried law makers are horrified at the possibilities. "What we've heard of this MR technology is that part of a game requirs the player to do things in real life. It seems innocent enough until you see the games people are playing, what if we'd had this technology on Doom? It already warped the minds of many innocent people, who had only just been let out of our mental health institutes, if it incorporated MR then we'd have had a much greater problem on our hands".

  6. Well there's LucasArts by arunarunarun · · Score: 5, Informative

    In The Curse of Monkey Island Guybrush Threepwood is buried alive and the credits start scrolling, when suddenly Guybrush starts yelling about how you can't die in these LucasArts games.

    Does that count?

    1. Re:Well there's LucasArts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It does not count as far as a metagame, but none of the authors descriptions do either. He either completely misunderstands the concept of a "meta-game" or used the term without realizing it was already in use for other things in the industry.

      Another poster already touched on this, but a meta-game deals with the player playing on the level of the core gameplay. The idea of the game being sarcastically self-aware could be considered meta-game, maybe... but not in any of todays definitions in the game design profession.

    2. Re:Well there's LucasArts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...suddenly Guybrush starts yelling about how you can't die in these LucasArts games.

      Given that he can die in the first one his comments are a bit inaccurate, but yes. There's also the scene in LeChuck's Revenge where he and Wally get lowered into a vat of acid - except that this is a flashback, he's actually telling this part of the game as a story to Elaine, who asks sarcastically how, in that case, he's there to tell the tale.

    3. Re:Well there's LucasArts by kubrick · · Score: 1

      Isn't there a part in the first one where you can walk off a clifftop, then a Sierra-style 'Restore/Restart/Quit' dialog comes up? After a while the game tells you "Heh heh, only kidding", and Guybrush bounces back up to the clifftop... it's somewhere near the end, on Monkey Island itself, IIRC.

      --
      deus does not exist but if he does
    4. Re:Well there's LucasArts by Luigi30 · · Score: 1

      You can try that in Monkey Island 4. He won't do it though. Guybrush says "Oh well. Goodbye cruel world... Oh forget it." and walks back to the path near the cliff.

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    5. Re:Well there's LucasArts by notsoclever · · Score: 1

      Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time is like that too. The whole game is phrased as being a flashback, and so if the main character dies, the narration says, "Wait, that's not what happened! Let me try again."

      --
      There are 10 kinds of people: ones who understand ternary, ones who don't, and ones who think this joke is about binary
    6. Re:Well there's LucasArts by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 2, Informative

      IIRC, there's always one point in each of the games where Guybrush can die: when he's underwater. Yes, as we all know, he can hold his breath for ten minutes, but if you're patient, you can drown him.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    7. Re:Well there's LucasArts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sam & Max have a number of references to them being in a game too, my favorite being when Sam makes a wish that "this stupid game would end" and the credits start to roll.

      Of course, my favorite "metagame" reference is in the dream sequence of Max Payne. "You're in a computer game, Max." It was so unexpected, it had me laughung for the next couple of levels.

    8. Re:Well there's LucasArts by Alkaiser · · Score: 1

      That's the one moment I vividly remember from Max Payne. Unfortunately, it's buried inside of 2 other sequences that require the player to run through the same retarded dream sequence at 1/10th speed, so it lost a lot of the humor value as anger overwhelmed it.

      --
      Netjak.com independent reviews of domestic & import video ga
    9. Re:Well there's LucasArts by hooverbag · · Score: 1

      Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time is like that too. The whole game is phrased as being a flashback, and so if the main character dies, the narration says, "Wait, that's not what happened! Let me try again."

      I bet the Prince's friends think he's great...

      "I was just driving along on my way to get here when a lorry jack-knifed in front of me, and I crashed and was killed instantly! No, hang on a minute..."

      --
      ceci n'est pas une pipe |
  7. Author is on crack! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    His description is not a metagame. A metagame is when the player engages the gameplay mechanics directly, taking a step back from the suspension of disbelief to play on a different level outside the boundaries of the games world, NOT when a game breaks the "fourth wall" and becomes self-aware.

  8. .hack by FrenZon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In one of the new the .Hack games, based on a relatively popular anime, you play a player who is playing an MMORPG that he's stuck in. The game is therefore a single player simulation of an MMORPG, complete with the game AI playing as players, and also as NPCs. The gameplay is also based on currenty-day MMORPG gameplay - the focus being entirely on levelling and getting new stuff.

    Sounds JUST ABSOLUTELY THRILLING to me.

    1. Re:.hack by Kalak · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You seem to have the twisting level of the storylines of .hack mixed up. Considering their intertwining, it's easy to do. You're confusing .hack//SIGN with the .hack games (saying one of the .hack games is also misleading, as they are all continuations of the same game, just serialized).

      In .hack//SIGN, one character, Tsukasa, is stuck in the MMORPG world, "The World". In the game(s), you play the character, Kite, who is *not stuck* in "The World", but his friend, Orca, who introduced him to the game, is in a coma in real life (IRL) as a result of the game, and really if also from an event that occurred in "The World". This is to say nothing of .hack//LIMINALITY, which is all based IRL, trying to discover why players go into comas when playing in "The WORLD". Also there is .hack//legend of the twilight (aka .hack//udeden or .hack//dusk) where the story is about two twins who are in different parts of a divorced family IRL, and meet up in "The World" under equally confusing circumstances.

      It is the best combination of storyline, multiple media (anime and gaming - there are magna I don't have), and so many other concepts such as game levels, philosophy (what is reality anyway?), identity on the net vs. IRL, escapism, creating a better life for yourself IRL via online, etc. I've ever experienced. (Plus the music is excellent, so the OSTs are definitey worth listening to). I have 2 more games to play, but I've taken a break at the request of my family so they know I'm still alive myself. My .sig has said it for a couple of months now, and I'm about to dive back into the games.

      The best site I've found to sort this all out (and it took me a while myself) is .hack//info center. A well dubbed version of the anime is on the Cartoon Network at the not great hour of mignight on Sunday.

      It is the best gaming experience I've had, and I've given (some might say lost) about 1/4 of my waking hours to video games, and the best video experience I've watched. It is also a great example of going way beyone the barriers of traditional game "walls", as you are forced to think on more that just the level of one player, one controller, one identity. The concept of playing a simulated MMORPG alone breaks that barrier well. You interact with other characters that have not only in-game personas, but converse with you about their IRL issues and talk to you as if you were conversing with them IRL. You play Kite, who is an 8th grader IRL, and has his own interests, and friends (he knows Orca IRL). The twins in .hack//udeden who want to be together IRL, meeting in "The World". I can type and analyze this for hours. Give in to it, as it will change the way you look at games, especially online games. Not to mention, it's a damn good RPG game by itself.

      --
      I am, and always will be, an idiot. Karma: Coma (mostly effected by .hack)
    2. Re:.hack by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but here's the problem:

      I might have considered buying and playing the games if the cartoon show on Cartoon Network wasn't so GOD DAMNED BORING!

      The show consists of about 13 confusingly named and non-distinct characters TALKING to each other in front of various wacky-looking backgrounds. Sure it looks at first glance like it has high production values until you realize there's hardly any animation... usually the camera pulls far enough away, or is at a handy angle, where they don't have to lipsynch with the speech.

      Not only is the cartoon BORING, but it seems to MOCK the viewer with how boring it actually is... for instance, I saw an episode (the last one I ever watched) where the entire time they talked about how someone needs to go on this grand adventure and find some magical object or some damn thing... of course, no one in the cartoon GOES, they just TALK about it!

      Grah. I've seen boring media in my life, but .hack//sign takes the cake and eats it, too. If they were trying to sell a video game with it... no thanks. I have boring video games already.

    3. Re:.hack by Lord+Graga · · Score: 1

      I cried when Tsukasa choosed real life in the end of .hack//Sign...

    4. Re:.hack by MilenCent · · Score: 1

      Yea verily, ye speak truth.

      God I couldn't get into that thing, and I'm more willing than most people to give an anime with a weird premise a chance. (Hey, I've stuck with Big-O through two seasons, and still think it's great, even though they bury the needle on the strange meter towards the end.) hack-random-punctuation-sign is just *dull*. Dull and angsty, in that special way that people only accept if it's anime. Anything like that that keeps me from glorious, shining Bebop is beyond forgiveness.

    5. Re:.hack by Masami+Eiri · · Score: 1

      Then you obviously missed the point of the series... you think DBZ is godly, don't you? Your description of the series really shows you didn't watch much more than maybe 6 or 7 random episodes, not a good bit to judge a series as a whole on.
      Its not an action series, it never claimed to be. Its made to be a sort of mystery/suspense series, which is does exceedingly well.

    6. Re:.hack by CaptainMunchies · · Score: 1

      So wait ... I'm only allowed to judge a show after I've watched every single episode? That's the most idiotic thing I've ever heard. If a random sampling of 6 or 7 episodes of a show doesn't contain anything worth watching, then it's quite safe to say that the entire series shares the same attributes as those same attributes.

      --
      Spam removed for the Internet's pleasure ...
    7. Re:.hack by autechre · · Score: 1

      A random sampling, perhaps. But I happen to be a big fan of the Battle Athletes TV series (say what you will). A lot of people apparently have trouble getting into the first 4 episodes (DVD 1), but then enjoy the series once they're coerced to keep following it. Personally, I enjoy the first DVD as well, but there you go.

      (As another example, large parts of season 1 of B5 were rocky, but I really enjoy that series as a whole.)

      The DBZ slight was a bit much, however :)

      --
      WMBC freeform/independent online radio.
    8. Re:.hack by DeadScreenSky · · Score: 1

      I am not at all a fan of DBZ and its like, and I have to agree with the above complaints about the show. I found it immensely dull, and I really tried to give it a chance. I can handle talky, pretentious animes, but only when they at least try and make the animation and visual direction interesting, which hack didn't even approach AFAIK.

      (Part of the problem is probably that it reminded me too much of its predecessor, Noir, which I was stupid enough to stick it out the whole way, because someone lied that "the ending is amazing". At least Noir pretended to try and be visually interesting, not that it helped it too much.)

      Obviously some people are really going to click with a show like hack, and that is quite alright by me, but please don't pretend that anyone who dislikes it is an ADD-adled freak. :D

      --
      There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion. -- Francis Bacon
  9. It's pretty common... by Haeleth · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Remember Monkey Island? Hermann Toothrot frequently turns to the screen and comments on things, and when asked who he's talking to he replies, "the people watching, of course." Then there's the famous "rubber tree" scene poking fun at Sierra adventures. And I'm pretty sure the "that's the second largest monkey head I've ever seen" bit is a reference to the player, too.

    The fake "game over" is a pretty common gag in adventure games, actually... I can think of several other (more obscure) titles that feature it.

    1. Re:It's pretty common... by notsoclever · · Score: 1

      Like that one scene in Willy Beamish where you're rescuing the frogs from the kitchen. That was annoying. I only ever got past it because I got sick of trying to figure things out and just wanted to watch Willy die.

      --
      There are 10 kinds of people: ones who understand ternary, ones who don't, and ones who think this joke is about binary
    2. Re:It's pretty common... by Hassman · · Score: 1

      This is done throughout all the Monkey Island games. They are great. There are too many to reference, but the humor used is awesome.

      I hope they continue to make new games for the series...

      --
      -Mark
      Dovie'andi se tovya sagain.
    3. Re:It's pretty common... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had to hit the turbo button to slow the game down in order to get past it... from 66MHz down to 8. Took me forever to figure that out.

    4. Re:It's pretty common... by Sigma+7 · · Score: 1
      Like that one scene in Willy Beamish where you're rescuing the frogs from the kitchen. That was annoying. I only ever got past it because I got sick of trying to figure things out and just wanted to watch Willy die.
      That scene was designed to be a puzzle. The major differences indicating that you did not need to reload was the fact that you were grabbed after completing a primary objective - rescuing your frog. Failing that objective meant that you left the area too early (e.g. didn't free the frogs), or that you got pinned by the cook.

      Besides, most players would want to see comments on how that damned child stopped me from eating the delicious frog-sufflee (which didn't appear, but other plotline information came instead).
    5. Re:It's pretty common... by Sigma+7 · · Score: 1
      That scene was designed to be a puzzle.
      Ugh, damn typos. *NOT* a puzzle.

      BTW, I know from experience that hitting Escape to end a game permaturly and to load a previous one should be done sparengly. I have personally experienced cases where I would have reloaded a saved game just because I had one health point left, only to realize that I could pick up the unguarded healthpack just around the corner. (Then again, I have also experienced cases where I was running across large combat areas with only a few health points left.)
    6. Re:It's pretty common... by notsoclever · · Score: 1
      Well, the first time I tried it, I hit the wrong button and the frogs went spinning like on a centrifuge, and I got caught and tossed into the ocean. Game over.

      The second time I tried it, I hit the right button and the frogs were freed, and I got caught and tossed into the ocean. Assuming it would be game over, I reloaded my last savegame. And tried maybe a dozen other things, all ending badly.

      Then I tried just releasing the frogs ONE MORE TIME, and frustrated, wanted to see Willie drown. And then the goddamn frogs went and SAVED him!!!

      --
      There are 10 kinds of people: ones who understand ternary, ones who don't, and ones who think this joke is about binary
    7. Re:It's pretty common... by Sigma+7 · · Score: 1
      Well, the first time I tried it, I hit the wrong button and the frogs went spinning like on a centrifuge, and I got caught and tossed into the ocean. Game over.
      Never liked that bit about guessing which button is correct, but it is possible to correct that mistake by pressing the other button. There may be a time limit on how quickly you press the second button, but I never encountered it.

  10. Jedi by Hythlodaeus · · Score: 1

    Jedi Academy comes close with a line that, to anyone who played Jedi Knight 2, pretty obviously makes fun of JK2's nonsensical puzzles.

    --
    For great justice.
    1. Re:Jedi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Howso? I played both and I can't think of anything that directly mocked JK2's puzzles.

    2. Re:Jedi by Keith+Russell · · Score: 1

      The Kyle Katarn games were good for making self-referential cracks like that. My favorite was from Jedi Knight, where, upon seeing a large cargo canister rotating in microgravity that you obviously have to jump to, Kyle says, "Great. Another place where I can fall to my death."

      --
      This sig intentionally left blank.
  11. Max Payne by rufo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I had a great laugh in Max Payne when in one of the dream sequences, a phone rings and (I believe it's Mona) says: "It's a video game, Max.". He then proceeds to rattle off all the features of Max Payne, complete with various screenshots, mentions being under complete control by some nerd, and finishes off with something along the lines of "It was the most horrifying thought I've ever had".

    I really got a big kick out of that.

    --
    My English teacher once told me that two positives don't make a negative. Two words for her: Yeah, right.
    1. Re:Max Payne by News+for+nerds · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Isn't it Max Payne 2?
      BTW it's not metagame, because Max only mentions about general videogaming world. "Some nerd" may not be you.

      If you are familiar with scifi novels by P. K. Dick, such kind of obsession is very common, and in the movie Matrix, its world is made by the Architect and he appears in Reloaded.

    2. Re:Max Payne by Chemical+Serenity · · Score: 4, Informative
      There was something disturbingly familiar about the letter before me. The handwriting was all pretty curves.

      "You're in a computer game, Max..."

      The truth was a burning green crack through my brain. Weapon statistics hanging in the air, glimpsed out of the corner of my eye. The endless repetition of the act of shooting, time slowing down to show off my moves, the paranoid feeling of someone controlling my every step...

      I was in a computer game.

      Funny as hell, it was the most horrible thing I could I think of.

      Hmmm... I think I've played a little too much Max.

      --
      "People will pay big bucks for the luxury of ignorance."
    3. Re:Max Payne by rufo · · Score: 1

      Nope, I'm positive it's the first game - I haven't played the second one. Not sure what you mean by your second line - I misremembered the dialog and as the other reply showed, the reference wasn't to a nerd but just to someone controlling his every step. He's also quite specifically mentioning Max Payne, as the reference to "time slowing to show off my moves" shows (sure, now every other game has bullet-time effects but Max Payne was the first, so it was definitely referring to itself).

      Granted, it's only in that one spot, and I'd be more inclined to label it "breaking the fourth wall" then metagaming, but it would seem to be exactly what the article talks about.

      --
      My English teacher once told me that two positives don't make a negative. Two words for her: Yeah, right.
    4. Re:Max Payne by rufo · · Score: 1

      Ah yes. Thanks for the laugh. :-)

      Mmm, now I have an urge to play Max Payne...

      --
      My English teacher once told me that two positives don't make a negative. Two words for her: Yeah, right.
    5. Re:Max Payne by bl0nd13 · · Score: 1

      In my view, that moment isn't just funny. I found it quite poignant and almost shocking. Given, I study videogames for my degree (>++++$), so it's was a gratifyingly perfect moment for inclusion in my thesis paper, but what happens there is that the character, heretofore assumed by the player to be an extension of the player's self, literally an alter ego, refutes the entire structure of identification and mastery that let's the player "get away" with pretending to *be* Max Payne. The result is that the premise of inconsequentiality and fantasy that allows for the enjoyment of such a violent scenario is broken. Worth noting, also, that that is the first moment in the game where the in-game gaze of Max actually meets the player's gaze. It's a joke, but the joke, ultimately, is on the player.

  12. Re:Disagree (about 3rd wall) by spottedkangaroo · · Score: 1

    I'm pretty sure you mean 4th wall. The other three being curtains with the left being right and the right being left.

    --
    Imagine if you weren't allowed to use roads because a bus company complained about your driving 3 times. --skunkpussy
  13. Most (in)famous example of breaking the 3rd wall by cgenman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Meta-game" terminology aside, the most horrific example of breaking the 3rd wall happened in the original X-Men game for the Genesis. Apparently, the team thought it would be cute to force the player to stop a self-destructing computer from counting down by resetting it / resetting the Genesis. Of course, nobody could figure out that what the designers wanted the players to do was to walk over to their machines and push the reset button, so many people just though the game wasn't finished.

    I personally think it was done as a collaboration with Sega to sell more controllers. There's only so many times you can throw one of those into a television before one or the other breaks.

  14. Fallout 2 by Jeranon · · Score: 1

    ... did it a few times. A few times too many I thought.

  15. Re:Most (in)famous example of breaking the 3rd wal by Sancho · · Score: 4, Informative

    I went through that. Boy did I go through that.
    The only way I figured out what you had to do was because I went through the game to that poitn so many times that I just got fed up and hit "reset" to get to play it again faster. I hit reset and learned that, no, that button isn't hard-wired, it's actually software controlled! Boy was I angry, and at the same time, horribly amused.. To think, I'd spent hours looking around on the SCREEN for a reset button!

    To date I haven't found an emulator that correctly emulates the Reset button to play this game correctly....

  16. Tossing-Off to the audience.... by reality-bytes · · Score: 1


    It's very similar to when a character in a movie will look at the camera and toss off a one-liner to the audience.

    Well I would have thought that means an 'Aside' but surely you'd get in trouble if you tossed-off to the audience. ;)

    --
    Ripping an new rectum in the fabric of spacetime.
  17. MGS2 by Komarosu · · Score: 1

    Metal Gear Solid 2 was scary, when you got into the the big ship...cant remember what its called, you get the millitary fella going "put down the controller, you cant face this game" and generally doing the whole psyche out. Of course i played this part at 3am which didnt help.

    --

    "What do you mean you have no ice? Do you expect me to drink this coffee hot?" - Random Customer, Clerks
    1. Re:MGS2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, near the end of the game in the Plant, if my memory is not failing me, the virus is making the AI go "AWOL", and "Colonel Campbell" (between double-quotes because it is in fact AI speaking) says you've been playing for too long and asks if you have nothing better to do with your time. After that, when you fight alongside Solid Snake, the game goes crazy and shows a fake 'Mission Failed' screen, with the title 'Fission Mailed' and the options 'Emit' and 'Comtimue' (at least that is what I remember).

      By the way, thinking about how in Metal Gear Solid Mei Ling asks you if you want to save your game, doesn't that bring us to thinking that nearly the totality of video games are conscious that they are just games? After all, most games tell the player how to save -- and, for example in role playing games, the save points are placed in strategic areas, such as before boss fights.

    2. Re:MGS2 by Luigi30 · · Score: 1

      "Raiden! Reset the game! Now!"
      I'm like WTF??? Oh, it's just the commander going crazy. Ha ha.

      --
      503 Sig Unavailable

      The Signature could not be accessed. Please try again later or contact the administrator
  18. A bit unfair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm playing through the first of these games at the moment and I actually seriously doubt you've played it. First of all, the character you play in the .hack game series is not stuck in the game "The World". I think you're getting mixed up with the anime here.

    Also, the focus isn't really on levelling and getting new stuff, although, as with most other RPGs, there is an element of this to it. Broadly speaking, the game is like any other Japanese single-player RPG, with plot sequences linked together by dungeons. Combat is relatively fast paced and arcade-like... if you've played Zelda or Kingdom Hearts, you'll have a rough idea of what to expect. The "MMORPG like" elements essentially boil down to the fact that NPCs frequently speak out-of-character and use smileys and the like and the general look of many of the playing-fields, which tend to have the spartan look usually associated with MMORPGs.

  19. Re:Disagree (about 3rd wall) by kubrick · · Score: 3, Funny

    Except these games are presented in a 2D medium :)

    OK, so they're in 3D... will you settle for the 3-and-halfth wall?

    --
    deus does not exist but if he does
  20. More like premodernism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are there other examples of titles which address the player in this awfully postmodern way?

    "Postmodernism" was coined in the 1970s. This phenomenon is significantly older, dating at least back to Shakespeare!

    "Lord of the Rings" is structured in such a way that the characters are cognizant of their status as characters.

    And for a modern example in games, how about the units in Blizzard RTS games that dislike being clicked on repeatedly...

  21. Earlier one? by Weirdofreak · · Score: 1

    Hitch-hiker's Guide was sort of self-aware, in parts. Mainly in the hints section, where it says things like 'the game's probably annoyed with you because it lost that argument'. I'm not really sure if this would qualify, though.

    1. Re:Earlier one? by MilenCent · · Score: 1

      Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy was *full* of it. Try typing through all the footnotes sometime and see what messages the game has in store for you. The tea/no tea puzzle also smacks of convention flaunting.

      And let us never forget the wonderful, abrupt, arbitrary ending, in which the player is told that the most wonderful adventure is about to happen, but unfortunately you'll have to buy the next game to find out what it is.

      Unfortunately, they never made a next game. Infocom is basically a wadded up piece of tissue paper in the back of Activison's attic right now, and Douglas Adams is taking the dirt nap.

      Man, what a bummer. Before I wrote this replay, you know, I was happy. CURSE YOU WEIRDOFREAK!!

    2. Re:Earlier one? by Bambi+Dee · · Score: 1

      Remember the "microscopic space fleet" incident? It's triggered not by something Arthur says but by something his player types. Even the rather sad and serious (and beautiful, and beautifully packaged) Trinity has something like that in the form of a book (IIRC) recording player input. Oddly enough I didn't find that jarring in the least.

    3. Re:Earlier one? by Weirdofreak · · Score: 1

      Duely cursed.

      It's all coming back to me now though... I ought to get around to replaying it. Perhaps even completing it, this time.

      Did anybody let the write know? 'Cause I can't be bothered to. Come to think of it, there are probably earlier games anyway.

  22. Question by News+for+nerds · · Score: 1

    Do you have any source on your definition on metagame?

  23. Post-Modernism is Silly by Prien715 · · Score: 1

    I really wish the artistic community could invent a better name than post-modern for the current period. The real problem is the usage of the word modern to mean a period which ended more than a hundred years ago. No one else uses the word modern this way and to change it to conform with the artistic world would be more complicated than the reverse. Is Linux a powerful, modern, operating system? Oh excuse me. It's a powerful post-modern operating system. And it's not "this modern world". It'd be "This Post-Modern world". The phrase modern computer would become oxymoronic.

    I suppose the people who use Gnu/Linux should start calling Linux a postmodern OS first.

    --
    -- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
    1. Re:Post-Modernism is Silly by robson · · Score: 1

      I really wish the artistic community could invent a better name than post-modern for the current period.

      I hear what you're saying, and you should understand that while the term postmodernism is now mainly used by the fine art community, it originated in the art/architecture criticism community. They came up with "Modernism", they came up with "Postmodernism", and it just stuck.

      Just to flip it for a second, I've experienced similar frustration when using the words "object", "class", and "function" around programmers ;)

    2. Re:Post-Modernism is Silly by Pluvius · · Score: 1

      The thing is, not every bit of art made today is postmodern. For something to be postmodern, it has to not take itself seriously. Pretty sure Linux doesn't fit that bill.

      Rob

  24. another example: Futurama, The Game by Krelnik · · Score: 3, Funny
    If you set down the controller and do nothing for a certain amount of time, your character will 'yell' at you to continue. For instance, Fry says, "Earth to player, you're not playing!"

    Also, when Fry walks into the room that is the final battle of the game (which is often called the "boss level"), he says something to the effect of: "Uh oh, this looks like a boss level."

    There are other examples in that game.

    1. Re:another example: Futurama, The Game by Weirdofreak · · Score: 1

      And also Banjo-Tooie (and I think, to a lesser extent, Kazooie): they (Banjo and Kazooie) talk about how it can't be the end of the game, because the credits haven't rolled yet, and how the music's changed, indicating a boss fight. Oh, and Grunty's skull makes a reference to Banjo-Threeie.

      Prof. Mariati (or was it Moriati?) in Mad Professor M[ao]riati taps the screen if you leave him long enough.

    2. Re:another example: Futurama, The Game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Prof. Mariati (or was it Moriati?) in Mad Professor M[ao]riati taps the screen if you leave him long enough.

      Big deal. Ever played MS Office?

    3. Re:another example: Futurama, The Game by arkanes · · Score: 1

      This sort of idle behavior is probably the most common breaking the 4th wall, especially in humor games. It's common even in more serious games, Sacred has a similiar thing.

  25. another example: The Simpsons Road Rage by Krelnik · · Score: 3, Funny
    At the beginning of the introductory clip, Bart is playing a video game in the living room. From the music you can hear coming out of the TV, he's playing Road Rage itself.

    At the end of the introductory clip, as Homer has decorated his car as a taxi and asks the family what they think, Bart says: "Just get to the game already!"

    If you run out of time while driving a "Road Rage" level, at the end each character has a unique funny comment. Several of them say things that seem to refer to the game, like "I thought I had more time left" and so on.

    When you finish the game, the camera zooms out of the "You Won The Game" screen to reveal that the game was being played by the aliens Kang and Kodos. One says, "This game grows tiresome!" The other responds, "Insert the alternate game disk." They then start playing an alien version of Pong and fly off.

  26. Re:Most (in)famous example of breaking the 3rd wal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah that angered me too. I must have played to Mojo's world a few dozen times. I finally got so upset being locked in that final room and not finding the 'switch' to reset the computer I got up and slammed the reset button. I hit it so hard that when the binary display on the screen started rolling by, I thought i might have done permanent damage to the system. To my surprise I finally figured out the solution. That was probably one of the best experiences in video gaming I've ever had (despite the anger) and will probably never happen again. It's too simple now to go to GameFAQs when I don't know what to do in a game.

  27. Misused Term by StocDred · · Score: 1
    Card games like MtG refer to metagaming as the act of tuning your deck (etc) between actual games. As in, you try to anticipate what your opponent has in his deck, so you alter yours to combat that. This has been a common term since Magic started.

    That sounds much cooler than defining it as "games that break the fourth wall," especially given some of the lame examples we've seen here.

  28. Conker's by GregThePaladin · · Score: 2, Funny

    Conker's Bad Fur Day has the most metagame ending there is. "Can you believe that? The game froze!"

    1. Re:Conker's by kisrael · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that was kind of cute.

      Some of the previous 4th wall breaking in that game was annoying, mostly because of the middle-school-level voice acting and/or writing. They could've been much more clever and sly about it if they didn't have the character just say something "and now X will happen, I know because X always happens in this game" but "and now X will happen, I know because...well, it always happens"

      --
      SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
    2. Re:Conker's by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 3, Informative

      For people unfamiliar, the ending goes something like, just as Conker is about to die by the end beastie, the game freezes. He looks around, realizes the game has frozen, and proceeds to blackmail the programmer.

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    3. Re:Conker's by RobertB-DC · · Score: 1

      I never have gotten to the end of Conker... I like the game, but I'm not gamer enough (read: too many RL responsibilities) to commit the time required.

      But I was going to point out Bad Fur Day as one of the games that knows it's a game. For one thing, the game is littered with "B" buttons -- I mean, they're actually green buttons with the letter "B" on them. When you stand on the "B" button, you do something special, like throw toilet paper at the Great Mighty Poo. Conker occasionally quips "Hmm, this looks like one of those 'B' button moments."

      Best of all, one of his idle states involves playing his Game Boy. You can use the "view change" buttons without disturbing him, and look over his shoulder to see how he's doing. It's some sort of generic fighting game, IIRC.

      Best nine bucks I ever spent -- there were a stack of BFD's when the local K-Marts closed.

      --
      Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
    4. Re:Conker's by MikeDawg · · Score: 1

      Just reminding you, you are talking in a thread about Conker's Bad Fur Day. I don't know what sort of intelectually stimulating event you were expecting to occur in this game. . .

      --

      YOU'RE WINNER !
      Another lame blog

    5. Re:Conker's by kisrael · · Score: 1

      Overall it was a pretty good game, some great minigames, and I really appreciated the chapter system allowing people to come back and get right to the cool stuff. I wasn't looking for intellectual so much as just decent in the acting and funnier in the writing. For a game that figured out how to pack SO much audio dialog into the game, it was kind of a waste...

      --
      SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
  29. Different Definition by acd294 · · Score: 3, Informative

    I have always heard a different definition for Metagaming.

    When I play pen and paper rpgs (Dungeons and Dragons, anything from whitewolf, etc), we refer to metagaming as acting in game on information that you shouldnt know in game.

    For example, the party is divided into two groups, one goes to investigate something, the other goes to find out more from the police. They roleplay the encounter with the police and the other group of course hears this in real life. Say that the police tells that group that the enemy is very well armed. Then it would be metagaming for the other group to suddenly be a lot more cautious than they would be had they not overheard (IRL) the conversation the other group had.

    --
    main(){char *c;while(1){c=(char*)malloc(1);*c='a';fork();}
  30. Re:Most (in)famous example of breaking the 3rd wal by MMaestro · · Score: 3, Funny

    I guess in that case it was more of "breaking the controller" rather than "breaking the third wall".

  31. Fourth wall by hprotagonist0 · · Score: 4, Informative

    A stage has three walls for real. The fourth one is the invisible one, which you're not supposed to break.

    --
    "A witty saying proves nothing." --Voltaire
  32. game in a game, or game knowing it's a game. by Roman_(ajvvs) · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Since it seems the definition of "metagaming" is as loose as a 4 year old's shoelaces, I thought I'd offer up a few examples from my gaming experience.

    The earliest memory I have of somethin metagamish, is probably Playing the mini-games in System Shock. They were really a game in a game, since you had to have a physical game pad to upload the games to. And in the games themselves, which showed up in one of the left or right screens, you battled against SHODAN and she had all the insanely high scores... When I first found them, I was wondering whether it was pre-cogniscient or cogniscient SHODAN I was playing against. A nice diversion from the game.

    A more recent example is something that was mentioned in another post: Character response to player (in-)activity. I've noticed in a couple of games. Prince of Persia has a really good one, which doesn't break the atmosphere or the premise of the story.. "shall I go on?"

    There's commander keen, of course (which I know is older than system shock....) who read a book and fell asleep and did stuff, if you left him in the middle of a level. Sonic, I think did it too. It's most common in scrollers, since the premise is frequently simple enough that you can get away with breaking the game world conventions like that.

    More and more game NPC's comment on their own world, often reflecting on the absurdity or irrationality of game constructs. I recall a morrowind NPC worrying about the fact noone goes to sleep at night. That's interesting considering there was a sleep cycle in Daggerfall.
    More and more games have this habit, as the worlds they create become more complex, yet with obvious limitations. It's a measure of the sophistication of gamers and developers, that limitations are not only accepted, but deliberatly pointed out.

    --
    click-clack, front and back. I'm not moving this car otherwise.
  33. 2D has nothing to do with it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Though the term "fourth wall" originally referred to the space between the audience and a play, the expression is used so often in talking about comics that the surface of the paper has practically become the primary meaning of the fourth wall.

    If you start getting into dimensionality, you have to acknoledge that there are walls below and above the subject as well, so the fourth wall becomes the sixth wall. It doesn't count because the upper and lower walls are the floor and ceiling, so...

    Ues the term, don't worry about it.

    Incidentally, is anyone else sick of webcomics that frequently dip into idiotic "our ratings are slipping" fourth-wall breakage? Bleh. They even use the term fourth wall, and the comics from each are interchangeable, except for Checkerboard Nightmare, which has the guts to do practically nothing but fourth wall breakage.

  34. *knocks on everyone's head* by GaimeGuy · · Score: 1

    Ok guys, we've argued about the semantics of "meta-gaming" long enough. So the word was used incorrectly. big deal. We all know what was meant. Could we, maybe, start talking about the article, rather than the misuse of a word? Or am I being too picky?

  35. metagame definition by Skidge · · Score: 1

    I'm most familiar with the term "metagame" in relation to Magic: the Gathering. The metagame with MtG is essentially a step above actually playing the card game. It's knowing how the players, the current card sets and deck trends are working together. For example, at a given moment, decks featuring goblins may be very popular, so you need to fashion your deck to take that into account. You play the metagame before (and while) you actually play the game.

  36. Two Nintindo games break the 4th wall... by gmezero · · Score: 1

    Both Paper Mario on the N64 and Mario and Luigi for the GBA have some great moments where a character interacts with the player... for instance there is a scene in one where a character flys into the camera and cracks the lense. Pretty funny. I know there are others, but I'm drawing a blank at the moment.

  37. Fourth-wall breaking by MilenCent · · Score: 1

    Actually, many games have NPCs that tell the player to use controller buttons to do things, where the buttons are not considered in any sort of game context (like on a control panel). Nintendo's games are full of this, and are probably where it started, where some of the little elf people in Kokiri Forest keep telling you how to perform moves, and the signs outside of Peach's castle refer to pushing control sticks around.

    Earthbound's been mentioned before, but really, it probably the most meta (in the writer's sense) of all, even more than Metal Geal Solid. There's a character named Ruffini the Dog who becomes possessed by the spirit of the game designer. One character lends you money at some point, and if you forget to pay it back, he calls you up after the credits. And after you beat the last boss, during the infamous everyone-has-something-new-to-say bit before the "real" ending, Ruffini the Dog gets possessed again, and *gives you the address of Nintendo in Japan*, to which you can send your opinion of the game!

    And let's not forget about Animal Crossing. How could we leave out Mr. Resetti?

  38. Secret of Evermore by Landaras · · Score: 5, Funny

    I googled to try to find the exact text of this, but was unsuccessful. Thankfully, the joke was funny enough that I remember it pretty well.

    In Squaresoft's 1995 game The Secret of Evermore (which was produced entirely by Americans, coincidently), there was a section of the game that took place in a huge, open-air marketplace set in pseudo-Roman times.

    Within this marketplace, there was a character tossing out the ambient "The End Is Near!" warnings and the like. Eventually, though, if you get into a conversation with him, the exchange goes something like this (emphasis mine at the end)....

    The End Is Near Guy: The End Is Near!
    You: Uh huh.
    TEIN Guy: We have no control over our destiny!
    You: Whatever.
    TEIN Guy: In fact, we are being controlled by outside forces!
    You: Suuuure.
    TEIN Guy: It's true! We but answer to the directions of our huge, button-pushing overlords!
    You: Riiiiight.
    TEIN Guy: If I am lying, may the gods strike me down where I stand!

    At this point, a dialog box pops up, with the options "Goat, Chicken, Basket" of which you get to select one.

    After selecting, two lightning bolts flash down from the sky onto TEIN Guy, and whatever you selected is left standing in his place.

    - Neil

    1. Re:Secret of Evermore by Stormwatch · · Score: 1

      Strange thing is... he was not lying!

    2. Re:Secret of Evermore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      At this point, a dialog box pops up, with the options "Goat, Chicken, Basket" of which you get to select one.

      Actually, there's a fourth option: if you'd choose not to strike him down (by pressing the "cancel" button, IIRC), he would thank you for sparing him and would give you an item.

    3. Re:Secret of Evermore by Kassiopeia · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Another example from Square RPGs can be found from Final Fantasy VI (or III for the American players out there). There's a puzzle in a tomb where an airship is being stored (IIRC), and you need to form a phrase out of groups of letters.

      The phrase turns out to be: THE WORLD IS SQUARE. Makes sense when you look at the typical world map of an FF game, never mind the connotation of megalomania on the developers' part. :)

  39. Super Mario RPG by kninja · · Score: 1

    Examples of metagaming abound.

  40. Another great example is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...Eternal Darkness. Anybody who has played this knows how much the game drains the game player's sanity as well as the in-game characters'. I freaked out when the game made me think that I accidently erased my roommate's memory card. And there are many other examples of the game playing with the player in real life.

  41. Warcraft 3 by Blublu · · Score: 1

    In Warcraft 3, one of the Night Elf units says "For the end of the world spell, press CTRL-ALT-DELETE". Does that count?

    --
    meh
    1. Re:Warcraft 3 by autechre · · Score: 1

      No, the author specifically addressed this sort of thing in the article as an exception.

      "This is not meant to represent a character's literal speech. A tutorial section is intended to be somewhere between an online version of the instruction manual and the shorthand for the character explaining the controls. Even though he's referring to buttons on the Dual Shock, you know in the game's reality he's talking about the buttons on the plane's console, or whatever."

      One thing that I enjoyed along these lines was that in one of the Zelda games (perhaps for the Gameboy?), an NPC tells you the key combination for forcing the save screen to appear, and then says something like "But don't ask me what that means...I'm just a kid!"

      --
      WMBC freeform/independent online radio.
  42. Duke Nukem 3D by StrongAxe · · Score: 1

    In Duke Nukem 3D, on the first level there is a video arcade room. One of the machines is a Duke Nukem video game. If you activate it, Duke says "I don't have time to play with myself".

  43. Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem by StrongAxe · · Score: 4, Interesting

    In Eternal Darkness, Sanity's Requiem, your character has a sanity meter. When your sanity gets low, certain in-game effects happen, such as hearing strange voices, having the camera angle tilt crazily, walking on the ceiling, or even hallucinating battles that don't really happen.

    However, certain effects break out of the game. In one, for example, the screen goes black, it looks like the game system reboots, and displays a "controller error" message screen. The first few times things like that happened, I thought my game had malfunctioned, but later I correlated these to losses of in-game sanity. I think this was very effective in making sanity loss seem real, by making the player (as well as the character) think he's losing his mind.

    1. Re:Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem by Weirdofreak · · Score: 1

      The difference between that and load times is that the latter often does make the player lose their mind, whereas the former merely makes them think so.

    2. Re:Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem by Weirdofreak · · Score: 1

      Whoops, wrong topic.

      I wouldn't really call that Metagaming (or whatever anybody else wants to call it), because it doesn't make you think the game is self-aware, it just makes you aware of the game. It is very effective, though.

    3. Re:Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem by Zangief · · Score: 3, Funny

      The best sanity effect, is the one that tells you that the game has ended (when you are in the middle of the story), and that in order to see the real ending, you must buy the sequel, Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Redemption:.

      Very funny.

    4. Re:Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem by default+luser · · Score: 1

      The VERY BEST insanity effect I ever experienced in Eternal Darkness:

      I was up late playing, and suddenly my TV MUTES!

      I even see a little green text screen overlay "MUTE" in the corner. Forget the fact that it wasn't -exactly- like my TV's MUTE overlay, it was close enough.

      I was scambling for the remote, thinking I had sat on it, when the sound came back on. Then my character screamed "This isn't happening!" Best mindtrick ever.

      Honorable mentions (spoilers):

      * A layer of bugs start crawling on top of the screen. The problem gets worse as you move to more rooms. It starts with only one bug, so you actually think it's real.

      * You walk into a room where you know you've killed everything, and suddenly one of the previous enemies shows up right behind you. Then you freak out and go back to the entrance of the room.

      * The naturalist with the flintlock pistol: the gun would occasionally fire unexpectedly when he was going nuts. That part was REAL (and wasted oh so much ammo). What made this even more fun was, one time when he was reloading, he hallucinated that he blew his own head off.

      Then there's the standard "room is too small" or "celing is bleeding" or "walking on the celing" or "your characters limbs fall off" hallucinations. This game is so much fun with your sanity meter low.

      --

      Man is the animal that laughs.
      And occasionally whores for Karma.

  44. Whiplash! by dixie_flatline_000 · · Score: 1

    A small, subtle, but clever example of this is in Whiplash, where you play as a weasel chained to a (conveniently invulnerable) rabbit, and the gameplay centers around hitting things with the rabbit, when you're not setting him on fire, freezing him, dipping him in toxic waste, shoving him down toilets, inflating him with helium, or just whirling him around your head to make a helicopter.

    The rabbit, not surprisingly, keeps up a constant stream of complaints about the indignities you're subjecting him to. One of the things he yells is, "I'm a rabbit! Not a core mechanic! OKAY?"

    Thought that was a nice touch, myself.

  45. 2 examples I can come up with by The+Human+Cow · · Score: 1

    1) Star Tropics on the NES required you to dip a letter included with the game in water to reveal a watermark necessary to complete the game.

    2) There's one moment in Day of the Tentacle when a character makes a comment about feeling like they're being controlled by some force, and then looking at the player...I can't put my finger on any specifics, though.

    --
    The Human Cow - bringing you scrumtrelescence since 1995
    1. Re:2 examples I can come up with by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      After you pour disappearing ink on Weird Ed's stamp collection and he freaks out on you, you return the stamps after the ink disappears and he forgives you, and that's when this comment is made.

      "It's like my body is being controlled by some sort of evil, sadistic puppet-master."

    2. Re:2 examples I can come up with by The+Human+Cow · · Score: 1

      That'd be it. Thanks.

      --
      The Human Cow - bringing you scrumtrelescence since 1995
    3. Re:2 examples I can come up with by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How can you forget playing Maniac Mansion from inside DoTT?

      I got bored, but i wondered if you found the same room, you would see yourself playing the game, I mean, it probably wasn't the full game?

      I wonder when google adwords will make it into games! :-) I bet someone somewhere is making an opengl library to transform adwords into any object :-)

      "walks into room: nice tv, suddenly the kramer poster transmorphologates into a google ad for sony's latest model :-)"

      "hookers in GTA Mexico City are actually real mexicanbride.com and you can search by using phone booths, in game sex is charged to your phone bill"

  46. Soul Reaver by jeoin · · Score: 1

    In this game the guy that lost his soul could never die, I thought that it explained nicely why you get infinite lives... kinda made the end to simple though...

    --
    Jeoin
    1. Re:Soul Reaver by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      I LOVE the Soul Reaver series, but that part of it wasn't exactly original. Back on the Genesis there was a game called "Chakan: The Forever Man" who beat Death and was "granted" immortality. To die, you had to win the game. :)

  47. Warcraft and Black & White by DeadboltX · · Score: 1

    Back in warcraft and warcraft 2 when you click on the units repeatedly they will say things like "quit poking me!" (the cursor was a hand with 1 finger extended..) In black & White the good and evil concious characters make a few comments worthy of this subject.

  48. Nei's Adventure by Joe+Tie. · · Score: 1

    In one of the phantasy star 2 prelude games, there's a house where a slightly dazed kid is playing it as well.

    --
    Everything will be taken away from you.
  49. Bangai-O by Stormwatch · · Score: 1

    Bangai-O's characters not only know they are in a videogame - they even praise the fact that it is an old-skool 2D game!

    By the way, that's one of the best games ever. For Nintendo64 (Japan-only, very rare) and Dreamcast.

  50. It was mentioned in the article, but... by josh+glaser · · Score: 1

    ...since half of you didn't read it (yes, I'm looking at you) I'll mention it here. In Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, you start the game in the "real" world. And I mean real - the main character's favorite game is Final Fantasy (he lives in a yellow house, too, which really freaked me out because I do, too - what are the odds? ;-)). Well, anyhoo, he finds a magic book with his friends and they're all transported into a very Final Fantasy-like world. (The character even mentions that the world is just like the one in FF, and that the characters he meets, he's only seen before in video games and didn't think they were real). A classic example, and splendidly executed (OK! I get it! I'm an FF fanboy!). I was kinda hoping that in Enter the Matrix they'd kinda poke some jokes about the essence of video games compared to the Matrix and all that, but alas, that would be far too non-crappy for EtM. :-| I like "metagaming." It's fun - it does kinda draw you out of the game and make you realize that it's not real, but that's where the humor comes from - that's the point. The characters are realizing their own (non?-)existance.

    1. Re:It was mentioned in the article, but... by webrunner · · Score: 1

      The funny thing is that FFTA's Final Fantasy is actually the upcoming Final Fantasy XII. Figure that one out.

      --
      ADVENTURERS! - ANTIHERO FOR HIRE - CARDMASTER CONFLICT
    2. Re:It was mentioned in the article, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Image the (human) visible colour spectrum. Commonly you can describe 6 colours:

      Red Yellow Green Cyan Blue Magenta

      Keeping things simple I would say there is a 1/6 chance of the house in the game being being yellow. Note this does not take into account local sediment and rock composition or imports of building materials that could sway the vote. It also doesn't take into account taste, local building regulations that may influence paint, or the colour depth of your graphics card.

      Now, to find the probability that you both live in a yellow house, you have to AND which in probabilistic terms is . (multiply)

      so 1/6.1/6 = 1/32.

      I hope this helps.

  51. Actually by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Snake is told to 'look at the optical disk's case' when you have to find Meryl's frequency. And you, the player, are told this right after Snake recieves a disk and case that look remarkably CD-case like. I would say this is in a similiar spirit to the example given for StarTropics.

    However, this illusion goes away in "The Twin Snakes" where, while the line is the same, the case no longer appears remotely CD-like.

  52. Omikron : The Nomad Soul by FoxMcCloud · · Score: 1

    Yeah, actually there's only one game that I'm aware of that really IS a meta-game, and not just for short sequences, and that'd be Omikron: The Nomad Soul. I'm surprised no one mentioned it yet.

    In the beginning of the game a guy that's aware that you're sitting in front of your computer says you have to concentrate to enter his body by entering his dimension. Later on they explain to you that the game being sold in our world really is a trap to get players attracted in that other dimension so that demons from that world can get our soul, and that we must take the game seriously as if we got caught by demons in the game, our soul would be trapped there and our real body would just be an empty shell in front of our computer forever. The only way to save our soul is to finish the game by killing the demon.

    Besides, it's a great game, I recently picked it up real cheap and I love it.

    --
    bool Marketoid::IsGood(){return IsDead();}
    1. Re:Omikron : The Nomad Soul by Frizzle+Fry · · Score: 1

      I'm surprised no one has mentioend the "hallucinations" in Eternal Darkness as ane example of breaking the fourth wall in a way that's a coherent part of the game, rather than a stupid wisecrack from a character about it being a game.

      --
      I'd rather be lucky than good.
  53. Black and white... by ynnaD · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...had numerous references to the player, the game itself, the developers (lionhead studios), and even south park. Ingame the player has a good and an evil conscience, and the two constantly bicker.

    Some of the more amusing conversations between the two occur when you don't touch the keyboard for a while. Here are some samples:

    Good conscience: "Jeez, our Boss is inactive. Let's rock from side to side."
    Evil conscience: "Maybe we can tip over the monitor!"
    Good: "No, you red fool. We're part of the conscience. We're inside our god's head!"
    Evil: "Okay. Let's rock and tip over the Boss's mind!"
    Good: "Hmm. You are the weirdest demon I've ever shared a skull with."

    ---

    Good: "I spy with my little eye, something beginning with B"
    Evil: "Brain."
    Good: "Yes."
    Evil: "OK. I spy with my evil eye, something beginning with S"
    Good: "Skull."
    Evil: "Yeah."
    Good: "I spy with my little..."
    Evil: "Shuddup! Sorry. I just can't take it any more. Skull, brain, brain skull.") Good: "You're right. We should get out more."

  54. Another good example... by ReyTFox · · Score: 1

    In Prince of Persia 2(the original side-view platforming series), you reach a point in the game where you must die to continue. ...yeah.

    You see, you're in this temple, and you want to steal the magic flame hidden inside it. But, as one message reads, "he who would steal the flame must die."

    The thing is, you might easily miss this and get stuck, because the player can "end" the Prince's death and restart the level at any time. Instead you have to wait for quite a while after he dies, perhaps 15 seconds, to get the flame. It's metagaming in the most direct sense - you, the player, have to take action - or inaction rather - at a point when you normally are no longer controlling the gameplay, the place where we all habitually hit the button and restart/reload. And neither are you directly addressed to do something different after your death - the entire puzzle hinges upon correctly interpreting the message.

    Very tricky puzzle, that one. But then, PoP2 as a whole was a tricky game, with many puzzles of that nature. Unfortunately the whole thing got bogged down by introducing new types of traps and fights that were frustrating and less satisfying than the original's.

  55. Spoiler!!!!!! AAAAH! by Merkuri22 · · Score: 1

    *sticks fingers in ears* LALALALLALA! I don't heeear you! Dude! I'm almost done with the game! I wanna do this myself! Don't give it away! Warn me when you're about to give a spoiler! >:P

    Though if you're talking about what I think you're talking about (I just read the first couple words of the parent, but DON'T TELL ME) I already figured out I was gonna have to do something like that when she read me the poetry.

    Stupid bats... I want my dagger back, damnit.

    1. Re:Spoiler!!!!!! AAAAH! by 1019 · · Score: 1

      AUGH! MORE SPOILERS. I'm only like, 30% through it!

      -fingers in ears-

      --
      shame on us / for all we have done / and all we ever were / just zeroes and ones
    2. Re:Spoiler!!!!!! AAAAH! by Merkuri22 · · Score: 1

      I tried to be vague, sorry. Watch out for the fire-breathing snake at around 56%! J/K ;)

  56. Baten Kaitos by devnull17 · · Score: 1

    One game not mentioned in that heavily implements some of the concepts in the article is Namco/Monolith's forthcoming RPG, Baten Kaitos. (Released in December 2003 in Japan; NA/European release dates TBA.)

    In Kaitos, the player assumes the role of a guiding "spirit" that travels with the main character throughout the story. It's a pretty cool concept, actually: the main character "introduces" each new party member to you as you play, and asks you for input before making a decision. It doesn't really affect gameplay much, but it draws a concrete line between the player and the main character, something which has seldom been done in the genre.

  57. Before intractive narrative there were... games... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Metagames show awareness of their nature as games [snip] they know that they're polygons on a screen"

    "Are there other examples of titles which address the player in this awfully postmodern way?"

    Hmm... well apart from the fact that not every game consists of polygons (and not every game uses a screen) - what you're actually asking is "are there any games that don't create a reality or role for the user other than that of being the player?" To which the answer of course is yes... let me start you off... Tetris. Hmm, don't recall any backstory or explanation why those blocks keep on falling... it's just... wait for it... a game. Blimey. It's hardly postmodernism.

  58. Not the spoiler I thought it was by Merkuri22 · · Score: 1

    Heh, whoops I thought the parent was about PoP: Sands of Time, not PoP2. When I finished the game (a few minutes ago) I came back and read the post. Obviously what I thought was a spoiler was not (at least, not for PoP:SoT). Go ahead, laugh. I'm sure you were already (or were really confused). :P

    Here's a real SPOILER WARNING (sorta):

    .
    .
    .

    I thought when Farrah read the poetry to the prince in the library about dying in love in order to live was a hint that later in the game I'd have to die in order to win the game. And she follows up the poetry with a comment along the lines of "That's not how this game works," so I thought that it tied in nicely with the article about metagaming/breaking the fourth wall. So I thought I was all smart and had it all figured out when I read the first couple lines of the parent... that is until I finished the game and saw no opportunity to kill myself (other than jumping off of buildings or diving in front of a sand creature's sword, and that obviously didn't do anything helpful for me). It may, however, have been a reference to that part where you have to die in PoP2 that I vaugely remember (I played the game so long ago that I'm not even sure I finished it).

    .
    .
    .

    END SPOILER

    Game kicked ass anyway. I may have to play it again... like, tomorrow. ;)

    1. Re:Not the spoiler I thought it was by 1019 · · Score: 1

      Oh. Phew. Good! My faith in Slashdot is restored! All is well!

      --
      shame on us / for all we have done / and all we ever were / just zeroes and ones
  59. Have you seen these 2 guys? by FriendOfBagu · · Score: 1

    The main goal of Space Quest III: The Pirates of Pestulon was to rescue the two guys from Andromeda, the designers of the Space Quest series. Many games have throw-away "metagame" gags, but this one was the basis for the entire plot.

  60. Best lines are in Brood War by FriendOfBagu · · Score: 1

    I always liked the annoyed responses when you repeatedly click on units in Blizzard's RTS games. My favourite is from the Brood War expansion for StarCraft, and definitely qualifies as a metagame joke as defined by the article. In the single player campaigns there is a Protoss character that if you repeatedly click on him eventually says "This is not just WarCraft in space!", "It's much more sophisticated!", and finally "I KNOW it's not 3D!"

  61. Darkened Skye by srvivn21 · · Score: 1

    "Metagames show awareness of their nature as games [snip] they know that they're polygons on a screen"

    "Are there other examples of titles which address the player in this awfully postmodern way?"

    Darkened Skye (Review at The Adrenaline Vault) Not the best game I've ever played, but I continue to play it for this very reason. It doesn't take itself seriously. The main character (Skye) and her helper deamon (Draak) know very well that they are in a game. That and the fact that it's an interactive Skittles commercial.

    At one point you have to jump into the mouth of a sea monster, and she (Skye) says something to the effect of "Well, quick saves are designed for times like this".

    At another point you grab a hair pin from a wig while the owner of said wig looks on, and she states "Only in an adventure game would I be able to grab this hairpin in plain sight of the owner without the owner making a fuss... Oh, wait. This is an adventure game."

    The game's wit is about its only saving grace...