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Spyware More Common in Popular Software?
Keith Young asks: "Over the past month, we have seen a 1500% increase of spyware denials on our firewall primarily due to WildTangent 'spyware' installed with AOL IM 5.5 and adware installed with Weatherbug. Since many of these widely-installed types of applications have an automatic upgrade feature, how can these be tested for license agreements, spyware, and security 'irregularities'? Is this another reason to approach management to choose only open source alternatives?"
You have to bare in mind that alot of companies have invested alot of money into there Microsoft Windows Network with all there fancy graphics packages and what not. If you have just finished signing a checking for nearly the value of the company on software licenses for your machines would you want to go to an open source operating system because some guy who works for you is moaning about spyware being stopped by the firewall. in my opinion the best way to scare somebody into changing to open source software is to tell them about the spyware that is NOT being stopped by the firewall
I know everything you can download for free isn't really that, but on the same hand as many people want to know if they have drm-crippled CDs that they purchase, wouldn't one also want to know what 'extras' get installed with a program and not just an [install] button to start and an [ok] button when finished?
Gaim
Just a friendly reminder in case there's anyone out there in slashdot land who still doesn't know about it. Works perfectly with AIM/ICQ and Jabber (and those other services no one actually uses ^_~) Even has a Win32 installer.
GeekNights!
Late Night Radio for Geeks!
I use gaim instead of AOL instant messenger. It's got just about every feature that AOL instant messenger has, plus a slew more (plus it can consolidate chat clients). It is easy enough to use for non techies that all my friends and family are on it instead of the AOL version. There are OpenSource projects out there for everything. Check out Sourceforge. And, if you really like the product, and it saves you some money, donate some money to the project so it can get even better.
You know, if you install something called WeatherBug, you're kinda asking for spyware to be installed. It's practically in the name.
Unfortunately gaim doesn't support AIM's video chat.
Is there something out there that does? I was looking forward to AIM 5.5 connecting with iChat to do video chat with my dad and friends; now I may have to avoid that if the AIM spyware is bad (sigh)
GPL Deconstructed
from the it's-so-damn-obvious-why-are-you-even-asking dept.
Do virus writers target more popular operating systems?
Do people with experience using popular programming languages have an advantage in the job market?
Are people more attracted to attractive people?
I recently discovered that screensaver.com is distributing screensavers that I wrote with their own custom installer that includes several spyware programs, some of the worst I know of, hijacks their home page, puts advertisement links all over their computers, and requires them to agree to receive spam before they're finally allowed to install my screensaver. I've dropped their affiliate commission and demanded that they stop distribute my screensavers with spyware, particularly because it hurts my reputation and is responsible for some of my support email, but so far no response (I'll give them another day or so). Spyware bundling was not a problem I had anticipated when I wrote the EULA. Next I'll be contacting other authors I who's screensavers are being distributed in this fashion.
I know older versions of Weatherbug included Gator, but my understanding was that they had stopped bundling this garbage in favor of a more unintrusive ad-only revenue model. At least the last couple of versions I scanned with Spybot S&D and Ad-aware tested clean.
Did I miss something?
Oh, and more on-topic, YES. Spyware is a big reason why I use open-source software whenever possible.
"Lawyers are for sucks."
- Doug McKenzie
Your company specifically allows people to play web games on company time? Make it against the rules to install WildTangent stuff. Why bother with an open alternative (if one even exists). Unless you're an entertainment software developer that needs to look at WildTangent based stuff there is *no* reason for it to be on a business computer.
Interesting, if true!
:-(.
But when I clicked on the link, it returned "Not found", and even an extensive search of the site revealed nothing.
You're either a great troll (people click Insightful without clicking on the link?) or there's something odd going on.
And yes, I did remove the "here" from the end of your URL and tried a bunch of other things and nothing got me to the link
D
You are the most illiterate and incoherent person on Slashdot (excluding the editors, naturally).
Whatever man. I administer nearly 200 Macs and use them almost exclusively for personal use. I've never ran across any kind of spyware for Mac OS X. The link you posted is bogus. Care to provide some more convincing evidence of what you claim?
for ad-supported software which states the following:
Hey, we're going to install software on your machine that pops up advertisements whenever you do anything on the internet, and sometimes when you're not! Also, we'll record all the sites you go to. Hope you don't mind!!!! LOL
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
I use some older 4.x version of AIM. Not at my desk so I couldn't tell you the exact version.
It was one of the first ones that let you store your buddy list on the server, but it doesn't have any annoying features that suck up bandwith, along with memory/cpu cycles.
Google search for spyware references on www.allosx.com
There are only two references to spyware on the site, and neither refer to any Mac spyware.
I've recently become a fan of WinPatrol. It's shareware, but will do pretty much all you need indefinitely in its trial version.
Most spyware tend to set themselves to run automatically on startup, and WinPatrol's watchdog will bark at you whenever a program does that, and let you confirm or deny. (If you register, they'll give you information about tat program to help your decision).
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There is nothing wrong with Directed Advertising, get it?
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Nothing wrong with door-to-door evangelists stopping by during dinner either.
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First of all, how is it stealing when we clearly state in our EULA what we're doing?
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A jerk that hides behind an EULA is still a jerk.
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but rather ask them if we can use their data to make adverts which are more successful
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As long as you specifically ask me for each and every piece of data each and every time you want it and give me the option to say "No, and don't bother me ever again" then I'm okay with it.
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and get better adverts about stuff they might be interested in
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I know what I'm interested in. I don't need to pay you to figure it out for me. Directed advertising works for advertisers and for sheeple. Don't hold up a zombie citizen as an example of how you're serving _ME_.
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But you feel the need to impose your choice on them.
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Funny. You were just talking about telling consumers about things they "might be interested in". You're selectively forcing your choices on them.
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Instead of charging people to use GPL'd software, you "charge" them by agreeing to set free their own personal hard work and sweat.
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Darn sure of it. Don't be mad at me because I've ditched your little monkey for my OSS alternative. Groups that lobby for laws such as TCPA/DRM which make my OSS alternative impossible to achieve only prove my point about their character.
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I could point to 100 times as many Open Source projects out there that could severly [censored] up your computer. But that's OK, is it?
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Yes, it's okay, because the OSS projects aren't charging money, they aren't gathering info and collating databases, they aren't selling my name and info to any clearinghouse with a dollar. At the same time, because it's free, I don't hold them accountable. If you charge me money or make use of my information then I should be able to hold you accountable for anyone who misuses my data which you sold to them.
The fact that "directed advertising" hides behind multiple levels of database clearinghouses makes me sick. See my statement about the EULA.
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Let's face it, if we offered you a job, you would jump at the chance
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You're right. The same guy that's milking our society dry is funding directed advertising because it feeds his profit margin and helps him figure out new ways to milk the economy dry. Nice vicious circle which keeps me scraping for any job available.
+++ATHZ
Implicit in your argument is the premise that there do not exist many free application programs for the Microsoft Windows platform. Can you show evidence of this premise?
Does Trillian support it as a plug-in?
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
There is no easier way to fight the paranoia about open source s/w , if you work for PHB.
for the last time people, I am "frodo from middle eaRTH", not "middle eaST".
Funny that AOL's own AIM Virus/Trojan Help page instructs the user on installing and using Ad-Aware (steps 5-8).
Of course, that was probably posted long before Ad-Aware would actually remove parts of AIM itself.
So if I get something for free, I should just expect to be spied on? That my privacy will be invaded?
/example/
//
Say, would you like a brand-new weather cover for your car? Oh, good. *small print* oh, by the way, we're going to watch everywhere you drive, everyone who gets in, what songs you like to listen to on the radio, what your gas mileage is, what sorts of add-ons you buy and install, what sort of add-ons you don't buy but feel compelled to install anyway, and what conversations you have while you're driving. Even when the weather cover isn't on.
Sounds a little different when you're talking about a car, huh? Just because a company *chooses* to give something away does not mean that I should have to give up my privacy to them or anyone else!
HOWEVER, I've bought software only to get ticked off because it wants to installed crap like Gator or worse on my system. Many times, this isn't part of a EULA (if there is even one). That's one way to get me ticked off. I PAID for the software to NOT be bugged! In particular, this was selfware that looked cool (puzzles and card games) and that I picked up at Target. I'm sticking with "download before you buy" stuff.
SPAM solution made easy: 1 spammer, 5 cords of rope, 5 hourses, and fireworks. Be creative.
OK, hypocrite. One by one.
door-to-door evangelists
Nice strawman there. A more accurate analogy would be if you had called up these door to door people and asked them round, after all that's what users do. We don't force anyone to download and install. Yeah, and then when they show up you bitch at them. But you asked them, and there they are.
A jerk that hides behind an EULA is still a jerk.
Ad hominem next. Note - all the hallmarks of a sophist, reader. Have you any official capacity in the software industry? Is that your Mom's computer you're using, or something? Every company in the world uses a EULA, or something just like it. I guess they're all jerks "hiding" like me. Nothing to do with lawsuits from assholes after a quick buck.
Specifically ask me for each and every bit of data
You know this would make our software such a pain to use as to be useless. Still, we'd do it. If there was a level playing field and every other bit of software had to do it too.
I know what I'm interested in
Nevertheless, advertising is a fact of life on the Internet. Who's paying for the bandwidth on your favourite sites? Yeah, me. And people like me. Now would you rather have: 1)adverts for stuff you don't, and never would, want or 2)adverts for stuff you don't want and some stuff you're actually interested in. In favour of Google Adwords? Thought so. Honestly, what would be your choice? Option 2 yeah, that's what I thought. No-one's forcing anything on you. We're on the same team.
Groups that lobby..
More mud thrown. Does OS lobby? Yes. Should we be banned from lobbying because you don't like our products? Yeah, if this was SOVIET RUSSIA maybe. Bitch at the system. We just want a level playing field.
OSS products aren't charging me money
Neither are we. We just want to help you. And they are charging you money. If they muck up your computer, you have to spend time and effort sorting it out. Your time is the currency here. Like I said, I can't defend the whole spectrum of Directed Advertising. There are bad guys out there. I wish there weren't, but there are. But then you can't defend the whole spectrum of OS either: Script kiddies? Virus Writers?
The fact that you hide behind the fact "it's free" as if this means you don't have any responsibility about what your mangled code might do is just as revealing my friend. The difference is, I generate wealth. You simply steal the market from propriety software solutions for your own ideological reasons. Who's the parasite, sorry?
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Is that your Mom's computer you're using, or something?
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Flamebait. I build and maintain my own systems. I put in my hard work and research time.
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I guess they're all jerks "hiding" like me. Nothing to do with lawsuits from assholes after a quick buck.
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They're using the EULA to cover their tracks for doing something they know is questionable at best and more probably illegal. In the end the consumer's ownership of their personal information might be affirmed but who can afford to press the issue if the consumer signed the EULA? It's easy dismissal for those taking advantage of a public that largely doesn't realize the trap they've set for themselves.
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You know this would make our software such a pain to use as to be useless
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Spyware is useless to everyone but the advertiser that gets to charge for the database and the people who need a gullible customer base for useless gizmos. Can you name any useful product that was brought to the forefront by directed advertising? Everything that people really want they'll find for themselves.
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Who's paying for the bandwidth on your favourite sites?
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I pay for my connection. Most startups get capital from loan sharks. Most loan sharks are involved in banking and insurance. I pay insurance premiums and I pay the $25 for a book of 150 pieces of paper and deal with the horrible interest rates that the bank gives me. Government business loans are backed by my taxpayer dollars. I pay the taxes on my electrical bill and on my network connection. I paid for my hardware and many hardware manufacturers support their corresponding software sites. I pay the taxes which support universities and research institutions. I don't need you or your directed advertising to pay for anything.
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Does OS lobby?
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The open source community lobbies to prevent the restriction of their right to produce. The closed source community lobbies to secure their position by restricting anyone who's not in their defined club. There's a big difference in the goal.
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Neither are we. We just want to help you
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I believe you. Really, I do.
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I generate wealth. You simply steal the market from propriety software solutions for your own ideological reasons
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You generate wealth by taking nickels and dimes from the parents' change jar when they're not looking. That's hardly an honest living. Closed source hasn't created any software that wasn't created by open source back in the 70s. Databases? Written by college students on punchcards. Word processors? Written by original authors like Jim Butterfield who published in open magazines. Games? There isn't anything in the gaming field that doesn't have a predecessor in public circles from the early days. Connectivity protocols? Pioneered on terminal software at universities long before the first patent was filed.
A parasite takes from the host without asking. That fits spyware and adware 100% unless you're asking each and every time.
+++ATHZ
I think that you didn't read my post completely. The problem is not the software packages that *always* contained spyware/adware/license-mods/etc, but the ones that get an auto-update and install the latest crap. As for the $25.00 cost, what will stop your favorite anti-virus vendor from adding the same "features" into their latest engine download? Trust me, this is only the beginning to "surprises" being added into software on the fly.... --Keith Young
I have not come across any major apps I use on OS X that have a built-in "Spyware", much less have tried to hijack my browser (Safari). There are the occasional free/shareware games etc. that I have downloaded which try to call home when they are launched. Any thing that displays such behaviour is trashed immediately.
A suggestion to OS X users: get a copy of Little Snitch. Any time an "unauthorized" connection is innitiated from your Mac, Little Snitch will "blow the whistle" on the offending app. It is also vey easy to set up a list of un/authorized apps and the port(s) they are not/allowed to talk on.
After I started using it, I was a little surprised at how many junk/spam email I found calling home either to pull in some content or to log which email@address had actually clicked on the spam. Previously, I knew this was going on (email/web-bug), but I was just surprised at how prevalent it had become.
cheers- raga
true dat, negr0!
Its easy enough to change a few values in some of AIMs files to strip out the adds.
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
And you can *CHOOSE* not to use it.
'Standards' in computing only impress those who are impressed by things like 'standards'.
There are quite a few multi-protocol messengers.
Did anyone compare them?
They're using the EULA to cover their tracks for doing something they know is questionable at best and more probably illegal
Oh man...you're really out there. Can you tell me then, what system should replace the EULA? Preferably one so that you could actually write and distribute software without the possibility of future lawsuits stopping you before you've even started? Who's going to shell out their time and money if in the end its useless and you're made bankrupt by halfwits?
Besides, you've totally avoided the question. Our EULA is no different from companies like Microsoft, except it's better in that you actually have a real choice whether to install or not. If you don't install Microsofts OS with info gathering potential, you have no OS. If you don't install ours, you have no search bar. There's a huge difference there.
Again and again I come back to the same point. The people know what currency they are paying for our software in. It is FUD to paint them as some sort of innocent victim. They know, and yet they still install, but you can't understand that from your extremist point of view, so we *must* be the bad guys.
Spyware is useless to everyone but the advertiser that gets to charge for the database and the people who need a gullible customer base for useless gizmos.
I honestly don't see how you can say our directed advertising programs are useless. People install them. Huge numbers of people. To you they might be "useless gizmos" but they like them, and they want them. It is not our job to innovate amazing software solutions or startling products! We would spend so much money doing so that it would be uneconomic. That's what pure University researchers are there for. We make useful novelties, nothing more and that's nothing to be ashamed of. We have found a profitable niche.
bandwidth
That is all very well, but again you are dodging the issue. How do you pay for Slashdot for instance. It serves over quarter of a million pages a day. Do any of your taxes, insurance or your end connection costs pay for that bandwidth? No. Most of it comes from advertisers. If advertising were to disappear, you would probably have to pay a subscription just to look at Slashdot. You do need advertising to pay for sites like this, because without it, it would not be free to view.
Lobbying
Your response is all about your perceptions. Turn it around 180, and you have mine.
Generation of wealth.
Firstly I resent your implication I am thief. I make an honest living. But nothing I say seems to convince you of that, and you continue to make blanket statements characterising my behaviour without logic to back them up. If you're looking for innovation in Directed advertising, you are looking in the wrong place.
We generate wealth by offerring people a service they want. If they didn't want it, then they wouldn't install it. We take an immaterial asset, our customers advertising preferences, and make it into a material one..dollars. Thus we take an intellectual abstraction and use it to create wealth. In the process we hire a few programmers, admin and so on.
We ask each and every time. We are open about what we do, and people are flocking to use our software. Wake up out of your restricted ideological framework.
That reminds me... some joker at our school is out to install as much spyware as possible. Weatherbug is the latest trick, but earlier I saw GAIN (Gator) installed. Standalone. I bet it's the same person who has pulled the fire-alarm four days running...
It took me a while, but I finally found Weather Pulse. It scrapes data from weather.com, displays a systray icon, and shows detailed forecasts. All without any spyware or ads.
Two words
Reverse Engineer.
That is what I did to AIM, after all pop-ups and adverts in my IM I don't like. There was no mention of that in the EULA.
I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
If the Spyware and Adware software makers told the users what the software will be doing on their machine, the users most likely would not install it.
I recall there was a plug-in for Kazaa that removed the Spyware/Adware and kept Kazaa working. Diet-K was the name I think.
By my definitions, Spyware and Adware are malware and unethical to force the users to install with the free or shareware software.
Many PHBs confuse free or shareware with open source software and claim that open source software contains spyware/adware. I've ran into that before, they need a clue-by-four upside their head to convince them otherwise.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.