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Men Incapable Of Portraying Videogame Women Fairly?
Thanks to GameSpot for its 'GameSpotting' editorial discussing whether men can be trusted to portray women fairly in videogames. The author references Metroid ("I don't appreciate that Samus being a woman is a punch line"), and Ico ("Yorda... [is] this supposedly sympathetic female character in a video game that can do absolutely nothing for herself and is constantly in danger of being kidnapped"), and ends by leveling the charge: "I think men are inherently incapable of doing an adequate job of properly presenting female characters in games."
Samus being a woman is not a joke, it's a realization that a woman CAN do powerful things and CAN be a hero. It's not an insult, it's something that makes you think.
...two things that are inherently "Male-Centric". Get over it or write your own video game. The world is driven by sex & greed. People (males) buy games that are sexy.
Women are inherently incapable of driving cars
Men are inherently incapable of getting in touch with their feeling
Women are inherently incapable of logical thought
Yeah, let's polarize and call each other names.
As a kid I spent quite a while playing this game, had come to know and like this character, and when I found out the hero was female I thought, "Cool, that's unique. I don't see why the ass kicking protagonist /can't/ be a woman." Ever since then, any instance of female action heros has never struck me as being out of the ordinary. I think if anything, it in some way helped break down the gender wall. At least for some of us.
- Cigar chomping muscle-brains
- Weasley little pick-pocket wimps
- Corpse-obsessed psychopaths
- Spineless cannon-fodder clones
- Sex-obsessed jocks
- Coke-bottle glasses nerds that love computers
Etc, etc, etc. It isn't a sexism thing, it's a "the story writers are stupider than the game's AI" thing.When it comes to video games, I am not looking for female characters that I can take home to mom.
I want big titties on a tough as nails ass kicking chick like Lara Croft or B. Orchid, or big titties on a soft helpless babes like the babe in Final Fight or the hookers in GTA:3 and VC.
Video games are like porno, the target market is mostly male. As a result the contents are going to be geared towards male fantasies.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Seriously, not only should it be rather obvious that the majority of game developers lack any and all ability to portray real women AT ALL, but the author of this article choose some really poor choices of women in games to prove his point.
Why not attack the games laced with idiot-centric content like women with oversized breasts who are always the victims.
Samus is the one, true video-game heroin that hasn't, (yet), fallen to the same traps as nearly every other female in most other games. She is strong, silent, confident, and not a sex symbol. (Some may argue that the removing of her suit at the end of a quickly completed game is leaning in this direction, and I could understand that, but I still respect Nintendo for at least throwing her in a modest single piece bathing suite when most other developers would have her sporting a scant bikini or a lace nightie).
Yorda from Ico could be seen as a weak female in a game, but she is still infinitely more interesting and unique as a supporting character than most of the aforementioned bad examples. Her character is successfully timid without becoming a weak, victim-ish sex-symbol.
I can't wait to see more *real* women in games, but this will most likely come with the arrival of more mature developers.
Why not get a female perspective? Some oversight in all things female... I think if there were female producers looking for jobs in Gaming they would be hired. Give it a try girls... it's a good job and pays reasonably well, I here 60k and up is normal for a game producer.. if you're experienced it goes to 6 digits.
A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
"I think men are inherently incapable of doing an adequate job of properly presenting female characters in games." Perhaps you could make that case if they were TRYING to properly represent a female in thier game. But they were not. They typically make games geared towards males. As for Metroid, Samus being female was a small tiny part of the game MOST people didn't know about for the first five years the game was out. I remember hearing Samus was female 3 years after I first played it.
What of Alys Brangwin from the 4th installment of the series? The article cites Alis Landale as a strong female protagonist, but then goes on to say that her gender was largely a non-issue. Alys was proud to be a woman, and knew damn well that she could kick the asses of anybody who got in her way, regardless of their chromosomes. Furthermore, she had a lean, athletic figure and dressed very modestly-below her neck, no skin showed at all.
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You're right. Perpetuating stereotypes just because they are what's expected is par for the course when it comes to any form of simple entertainment. Breaking stereotypes is considered tantamount to playing discordiant music: It makes people feel uncomfortable at some level, whether we like it or not. And such things don't sell, again, whether we like it or not.
Now, racism and sexism are the obvious things to point out, so I won't harp on about them. But I'll say this: It is natural for those who are commonly represented by widely-held stereotypes not to be bound by the same ignorance that affects those outside their group. So, when women say they are being disenfranchised, I think it's less important to focus on the words they use in their defense. Such words are bound to seem biased, because they are. Rather, we should try to understand why they are speaking them in the first place.
Warning: Some moderate (possibly heavy) Ico spoilers will ensue after the quote.
I never finished ICO. Not only did I get stuck at a certain point about halfway through, but more to the point, I grew sick and tired of the girl, Yorda, and her uselessness. This character was so pathetic, it almost made me angry. I admit that this is not the effect the game was intended to have on me or on anyone; however, here's this supposedly sympathetic female character in a video game that can do absolutely nothing for herself and is constantly in danger of being kidnapped. Who better than a man--or in this case, just a boy--to come to her rescue.
If Greg had played Ico all the way through, he would've realized that Yorda was only pathetic because she had been repeatedly injured and abused. The real Yorda was quite a bit more capable, just as the injured, abused Ico was just as pathetic (if not more so) than she was when she was injured.
This is what happens when someone starts their analysis of a game with the words, "I never finished..." That's like watching the first two minutes of the Spider-Man movie, turning your DVD player off, and then devoting two paragraphs to asking why someone would want to watch Peter Parker act like a geeky loser for two hours. If you're going to review or analyze something, you should at least have the maturity to take in the whole thing before gracing us with your ignorant opinion.
That's like saying that male authors are inherently incapable of doing an adequate job of properly presenting female characters in books. It may be true for many male authors, but I can't believe that's true for all of them.
Just because the article author believes (rightly or wrongly) that it hasn't been done yet, doesn't mean that men are inherently incapable of doing it.
Why do so many men think like militant lesbians? I don't hear woman gamers complaining about how they're portrayed in games, when I hear one with a legitimate complaint, I'll take it seriously. Until then, this is just a bunch of pathetic men complaining about a demographic they likely have about as much contact with as any other part of the outside world. So far, I've seen documentary after article after essay written by nerdy men by the truckload, and not one word from an actual woman on the subject. Isn't that STRANGE? WIERD even? Perhaps they don't care. Perhaps they won't say anything until the pussy whipped men shut up. Perhaps they know better than to moan and complain about their portrayal in a game meant to be FUN. I don't know. All I DO know is that these articles are masturbatory at best, and frankly, the sort of thing only a game nerd could ever get away with getting paid to write.
It's been a long time.
The problem isn't that attractive female characters are shown, it's rather the very narrow definition of attractiveness that plauges all media. Most attractive women seem to be come from the same mold. I personally find the girl-next-door geeky girl infinitely more attractive, but then again, I'm a geek myself.
Objectification is another problem. I completely agree with the criticism against Lara Croft and how a strong, capable kick ass woman is reduced to drool material by stupid marketing. It's perfectly fine with me to drool over her body, but when that's all there is to her, something's wrong.
As for Yorda in Ico, I agree that not playing the full game is unfair, but she's also a product of a society (Japan) that still is very inequal. I believe her passiveness and inability is as much a game device as it is a reflection of the view of girls in Japan. Compared to other kinds of oppression, Ico is a harmless fantasy for boys in the end. I mean, who hasn't dreamed of being a hero and saving the girl?
"The author references Metroid ("I don't appreciate that Samus being a woman is a punch line")"
Yeah, that Metroid game, nothin' but a barrel of laughs...
If Samus' sex is a "punch line," what was the joke?
I admit that the character art at the end of the two GBA games makes me roll my eyes (a little too "cheesecake" for my tastes), but here he's arguing that the entire premise is flawed, that her sex is a gimmick no matter what she may look like. This makes me wonder just what he thinks about women in general. He seems to be awfully sensitive to Samus' lack of a Y-chromosone and I wonder if this means that he finds the idea of a woman doing all those things to be unbelievable. After all, he's the only one I've seen who thinks her sex is a "punch line" to begin with.
"each game in the series encourages them to reach the finish line as quickly as possible to catch a glimpse of the woman beneath the suit."
Personally, I try to get the endings so I can catch a glimpse of the person beneath the suit. One of the series' cornerstone is the tantalizingly little information on just who she is and why she does what she does. I'm more interested in situations and facial expressions than her body (and on that note I'm happier with what Retro did with her than what Nintendo has done in the last two GBA installments). I chalk the cheesecake up as a failing by Nintendo to understand just what makes the games popular outside of Japan to begin with, the inability of a group of Japanese programmers to quite relate to gaijin gamers, not a failing of men in general.
Being as sensitive as he is to the pictures at the end, why exactly does the author himself play through the games? How many other gamers here are actually encouraged by the drawings of a scantilly-dressed woman at the end of the game?
Ah, wait a second...
"That's also not what I've been taught by my parents. My mother is a neurologist. Her mother is a physician, as well. The women have always worn the pants in my family, so to speak. Perhaps this helps you understand my perspective."
Now this is interesting. Here he implies that women must "wear the pants" in order to be worth something.
"Alis wears a pink hair band, lipstick, and a skirt, but she's still OK in my book."
I'm as sick of seeing women in pink as much as the next guy, but I didn't realize that actually liking pink is such a black mark against a woman. They can have any favorite color in the spectrum so long as it's not pink?
I think his problem is that he's equating strong female characters with characters acting more male, that men are inherently better and women must act more like men to be better themselves.
Personally, the more I think of what I've seen Samus do so far, I'm not sure if she could have been a man.
I think men are inherently incapable of doing an adequate job of properly presenting female characters in games."
!
If we're going to be sexist, how about we also field the equally-ignorant "women are inherently weaker and more in need of rescue than men."
Was Laura Croft, Tifa, or the women in Soulcalibur (or other fighting games) programmed by a woman? Are they somehow "adequate" depictions of women--in a way that the same depictions of men are adequate?
It's even a male who wrote it.
And just because a man wrote it, that means it's instantly not polarizing, no matter what it says, and it's automatically considered rational, well thought out, enlightened criticism, regardless of actual merit.
Sure. Pull the other one. It's got bells on.
...because I can think of several "fair" portrayals of women in games.
First, let's look at the Final Fantasy series. I can only speak to the ones I've played, so here goes:
- Tina--strong woman, though she has some emotional baggage due to
being only half-human. Never portrayed as particularly "sexy," though she's
quite pretty in most official images of her (kind of hard to tell from her
sprite
;-) )
- Celes--definitely a strong woman! She was a general in the army, for
Mu's sake! Not only that, but she can use every bit as big a sword as any
guy in the game (same goes for Tina).
- Relm--she may only be 10 (or so; I forget her exact age), but she's
awesome. She takes the womanizing Edgar down a few notches with her wit, and
has more spirit in her than any roomful of "typical" videogame
characters.
Don't see much to fret over there.- Aeri(s|th)--She may not be physically strong, but she certainly has a
strong personality. Not to mention she sacrifices her life to save the
planet. A bit more stereotypically "weak needs-to-be-protected girl," but
hey, some girls really DO need to be protected.
- Tifa--OK, here we're getting into kind of shaky ground, not for her
character, which I think is fantastic, but for her looks, which are a little
over the top...take that how you will...especially in FMVs.
- Yuffie--heh, you've gotta love Yuffie. She's cute, tough, and funny;
what more do you want?
Again, no real indication that men are "incapable" of portraying women fairly.- Dagger/Garnet: She's beautiful, tough, strong, and still vulnerable at times. I can find no unfairness whatsoever in the portrayal of Garnet's character. Nor is she visually portrayed as anything stereotypical.
- Freya: Not particularly feminine (and not even human); however, she's also both strong and sensitive. Included because she's technically female
;-)
- Eiko: Cross Relm with Yuffie, and you've got Eiko. 'Nuf said.
Still not seeing much problem here.Well, that's all the Final Fantasies I've played through, and in all of that, there isn't a single example of the kind of "unfair" treatment the article was talking about. True, some of them are visually portrayed as "sexy" (though only Tifa, I think, is specifically made sexy without being especially pretty), but this is not at the expense of their character.
Maybe it just goes to show that in the type of action games he's talking about, no one bothers to make the story or characters believable. (I know that's not universally true, but I also know it is true in some cases) RPGs, I have found, tend to make more of an effort than other genres to make their stories and characters if not realistic, at least believable and human. This is probably because their primary purpose is to tell a story.
Dan Aris
Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
>Women are not offended by their own genders display of sexuality and power.
Well, ugly women feel threatened by sexy women. I don't think you'll find many attractive women opposed to this sort of thing. This only reminds ugly women of their shortcomings, however. Have you noticed any hard core feminists that are REALLY hot? Probably not.
If moderation could change anything, it would be illegal.
There is a middle ground--like female characters that are competent without only being sex objects. It really isn't such an impossible thing to wish for.
What does he want? A butch dyke chewing on a cigar, wearing camo and a black tank top and with one combat boot-clad foot propped up on a dead Ridley's head?
The fellow's intentions are good, but he undercuts himself in most of his argument. By simply saying Samus, as presented, cannot be a tough bounty hunter is, in itself, discriminatory. Hypocrite.
If we stick with the Lara Crofts, we will still be relegated as "oh, stupid, mindless videogame players". We need smarter games.
Want to know why women play the Sims and Sim City? Because they are just good games (without stupid or ditzy or whorish women).
God Bless America. Why? Did it sneeze?
I agree with you, but we would be remiss to leave out these other examples:
Aerith Gainsborough (Final Fantasy VII)-- please, for the love of God, don't make me spell this one out.
Shion Uzuki (Xenosaga)-- She's not oversexualized, she's a smart and capable character, and through the entire game the only real reference to her gender is the address "Miss Vector".
Aribeth (Neverwinter Nights)-- a female rising to supreme commander of a military force, plus she has an actual backstory as opposed to being a one-dimensional "commanding officer" stereotype.
Cecilia Adlehyde, Lilka Eleniak, Virginia Maxwell (Wild ARMs series)-- strong female leads without overblown costumes or weak reasons for adventuring. On an off-note, Wild ARMs and Phantasy Star are two of the very few series that really get characterization dead-on.
There are others in games I haven't played (Valkyrie Profile, Suikoden III's Chris, etc.) but you get the idea. I suppose a better sweepingly false overgeneralization would be to say that "Game Designers Who Don't Make RPGs Don't Portray Women Realistically".
"Why Subscribe?" Good question...
Are games full of "big titties" because the market is mostly male, or is the market mostly male because the games are full of big titties and therefore are unappealing to women?
Chicken. I grew up in the 70's and the market for video games was mostly male then too. There were no breasts in Space Invaders but I remember seeing a line of teenage boys plunking quarters into it for hours on end. In fact, my mother is the only woman that I can remember seeing in the old school arcades and she was only there because I was.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Comic fans debate how to get some respect for comics as a legitimate story telling medium. I've long held that so long as the average female character has breasts larger than her head, the medium is going to be regarded as purile.
The same issue confronts videogames. No, they are not all marketed solely at 13 year old males with power fantasies. But most are. And that's precisely why both comics and videogames are regarded as illegitimate mediums.
"Inattention makes clowns of us all" -Bean
If a female (or male) character is portrayed in a game as being helpless, it's that way for a reason. A game without some form of conflict wouldn't be very interesting in my opinion. Its not just females that are portrayed as weak anyways. Off hand, Half-Life comes to mind; the scientists (male) are quite helpless. This of course could be in some respects contributed to AI, but never the less is still a good example that this happens on both ends. It was mentioned earlier, but women are portrayed as being quite strong in many a game. I can remember getting owned quite a bit by female characters in Diablo 2, etc.
28:06:42:12 - That is when the world will end...