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Sapphire: A Liquid That Won't Get Things Wet

eaglebtc writes "Tuesday on Good Morning America, a representative from Tyco Fire & Security demonstrated an amazing new substance called Sapphire: a water-like fluid that does not get things wet. He filled a small fish tank with Sapphire and submerged a book, a laptop, and a flat panel TV. Both electronics were turned on when submerged; all three items came out completely unharmed. Click here for a slideshow of the demonstration. The official name for Sapphire is actually Novec 1230. Read about it here (PDF). Tyco sees practical applications of Sapphire in fire extinguisher systems for museums and libraries. By the same token of practicality, regular readers of Slashdot probably have something else in mind: total-immersion watercooling. Just think of the possibilities!"

23 of 843 comments (clear)

  1. "Water"-cooling by Liselle · · Score: 5, Informative

    Offtopic, but the submitter opened the door: according to their specs sheet (PDF warning), this stuff has a boiling point of 49.2C (120.6F). Processors burn hotter than that, how useful would it still be for cooling purposes if it were a gas? I also have to wonder what the long-term effects of exposure would be... it's one thing to dunk a laptop for a few seconds, it's something else entirely to have it swimming all day long. At least your machine would never catch on fire.

    They might have some information there about how well the stuff will conduct heat, but I got a lousy grade in Chemistry, so I'll leave it to the experts. ;)

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    1. Re:"Water"-cooling by Frymaster · · Score: 4, Informative
      If they're using it to put out fires, it's a safe bet that it can handle your Athlon.

      yes... but no-one's concerned about reusing the water you used to put out the fire. coolant, on the other hand, should stick around for more than a few seconds before it bubbles off into the atmosphere.

    2. Re:"Water"-cooling by WolfWithoutAClause · · Score: 4, Informative
      Provided the fluid was allowed to circulate, a boiling point at 49.2C should actually be pretty good- the fluid will give you micronucleation boiling and that will leverage the latent heat of vapourisation to carry away heat.

      You're only going to get big problems if the processor reaches about 70C- then the boiling will become film- and you'll get an insulating gas layer- (the density of the gas is almost 100x lower than the liquid- and the thermal coefficient is much the same), so shortly after that your processor will fail (hopefully just the thermal protection kicking in, but don't mess with this stuff if you have an early AMD :-) ).

      One good thing about this fluid is that you can refrigerate it down to -100C with it still being a liquid. That's very nice for overclocking purposes.

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    3. Re:"Water"-cooling by Chiasmus_ · · Score: 4, Informative

      If this stuff boils in the fire it will cool even better because of the latent heat of vaporization. The vapor will help exclude oxygen, too.

      And that's just great, until the building fills up with five hundred degree anoxic Sapphire steam.

      See, the reason that sprinkler systems are popular is that they tend to preserve human life. Unfortunate drawback: they fry electronics.

      Conversely, the reason that Halon is popular is that it tends to preserve electronics. Unfortunate drawback: it tends to kill people.

      It seems that Sapphire is not the holy grail of fire prevention: a system that will save both your NOC and the geeks inside it. Somebody ought to try to come up with that. There's probably a lot of money there.

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    4. Re:"Water"-cooling by random+coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      According to the fact sheet, this is meant to put out fire by lowering the temperature below the burning point, not by preventing oxygen from combusting the fuel. So it is the same thing, in fact.

    5. Re:"Water"-cooling by Laur · · Score: 4, Informative
      You could always do a cooling tower like system. The saphire boils, turns into a gas, and then in the cooling stack condensates back into a liquid.

      That is not a cooling tower. A cooling tower works by evaporating a liquid (usually water) to a gas and then just venting this to the atmosphere. It is not a closed system. BTW, this is why cooling towers have visible clouds of steam rising from them on cold days. What you are describing is a simple refrigeration circuit, such as what is used in your fridge or AC unit. The refrigerant is evaporated in the evaporator inside your house, absorbing heat, and condenses back into a liquid in the condenser located outside, giving off heat to the environment.

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    6. Re:"Water"-cooling by Myrrh · · Score: 5, Informative

      Actually, it is the same thing.

      Fire suppression systems such as those that use Halon (which was outlawed in the '90s due to its ozone-destroying side-effects) put out fires by displacing oxygen with some other gas.

      Spraying water on a fire does not "deprive" the fire of oxygen. In fact, this is why you aren't supposed to fight certain types of fires (a magnesium fire, for example) by spraying water on it. That's because if the fire is hot enough, it will "crack" the water molecules, liberating both oxygen and hydrogen -- which will of course make the fire much worse.

      Spraying water on a fire robs the fire of thermal energy. Evaporation (converting a liquid to a gas) is an endothermic process; it takes a significant amount of energy. When you dump a bunch of water on a fire, it takes energy from the combustion reaction to turn the water into steam. Eventually so much thermal energy has been taken from the fire that the fire extinguishes.

    7. Re:"Water"-cooling by fintler · · Score: 5, Informative
      It makes me wonder why they haven't developed hard drives to work in a vacuum.


      Hard drives work because air is there. The head basically "takes off" in a sense. It flys above the platters. In a vacuum, the head would just drag along the platter, probably destroying the drive.
  2. Fluorinert by Winter · · Score: 5, Informative

    This is of course not the first liquid that does not cause harm to electronics, and can be used for total immersion water cooling. Fluorinert (3m) has been around for a while. One version of it is(was) also used for liquid breething deep diving (same as used on "The Abyss").

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    1. Re:Fluorinert by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      MSDS for Fluorinert. All it says is avoid prolonged exposure to vaporous Fluorinert

    2. Re:Fluorinert by praedor · · Score: 4, Informative

      Eh? Rats (dogs, cats, cows, horses, skunks, ...) do NOT have a different respiratory system than humans. They work exactly the same, by the same mechanisms, and for the exact same purpose. Birds are mechanically a little different but their lungs work the same way too.


      It is real stuff and it works. It did not kill the rodent. It could be a temporary hazard for developing pneumonia after the fact if the lungs don't clear the liquid soon enough and a bacteria can get started in it.


      Basically, expell the liquid and then cough, cough, cough to clear most of it, then slowly eliminate the rest the same way your lungs clear mucus contaminated with dirt, bacteria, viruses, etc.

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  3. Specs Data by Liselle · · Score: 5, Informative
    Here, I pulled it before /. nuked the site:
    Chemical Formula CF3CF2C(O)CF(CF3)2
    Molecular Weight 316.04
    Boiling Point @ 1 atm 49.2&#176;C (120.6&#176;F)
    Freezing Point -108.0&#176;C (-162.4&#176;F)
    Critical Temperature 168.7&#176;C (335.6&#176;F)
    Critical Pressure 18.65 bar (270.44 psi)
    Critical Volume 494.5 cc/mole (0.0251 ft3/lbm)
    Critical Density 639.1 kg/m3 (39.91 lbm/ft3)
    Density, Sat. Liquid 1.60 g/ml (99.9 lbm/ft3)
    Density, Gas @ 1 atm 0.0136 g/ml (0.851 lbm/ft3)
    Specific Volume, Gas @ 1 atm 0.0733 m3/kg (1.175 ft3/lb)
    Specific Heat, Liquid 1.103 kJ/kg&#176;C (0.2634 BTU/lb&#176;F)
    Specific Heat, Vapor @ 1 atm 0.891 kJ/kg&#176;C (0.2127 BTU/lb&#176;F)
    Heat of Vaporization @ boiling point 88.0 kJ/kg (37.9 BTU/lb)
    Liquid Viscosity @ 0&#176;C/25&#176;C 0.56/0.39 centistokes
    Solubility of Water in Novec 1230 Fluid <0.001 % by wt.
    Vapor Pressure 0.404 bar (5.85 psig)
    Relative Dielectric Strength, 1 atm (N2=1.0) 2.3
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    1. Re:Specs Data by Cecil · · Score: 5, Informative

      I am not a chemist, but you do know that CFC stands for 'chlorofluorocarbon' right? As in, Chlorine, Flourine, and Carbon? Where in that chemical composition do you see any chlorine? It's not a CFC just because it has the letters 'C', 'F', and 'C' in it somewhere.

      Which isn't to say fluorine is pleasant stuff, but it's not going to destroy the ozone layer.

    2. Re:Specs Data by Handpaper · · Score: 4, Informative
      For the chemically-challenged: CFC stands for Chloro-Fluoro-Carbon.
      That means that the compound contains Chlorine, Fluorine and Carbon.
      This compound is a Fluorocarbon - it contains no Chlorine. The C in the formula represents Carbon.
      As for the EPA, according to page 2 of the PDF, they are already considering it - and since the product was developed as a greener replacement for CFC-based fluids, it probably has a good chance of acceptance.

  4. Re:Chemical properties by sacremon · · Score: 4, Informative

    In addition the stuff is photolytic by UV light. The PDF states the stuff would be expected to last about five days when exposed to the atmosphere. Fluorescent lights put out a fair amount of UV, so if it were used for cooling, it would have to be a well-sealed opaque tank.

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  5. Immersion won't work..... by lhaeh · · Score: 4, Informative

    Not for long anyways, heres the rundown of tryed and failed experments:

    -immersion in tap water: its conductive, one person was stupid enough to try this on his shiny new system, lets just say the power supply did somehting intersting.....

    -immersion in distilled/de-ionised water: it gets contaminated by the computer and becoms slightily conductive, all the traces corrode.

    -immersion in mineral oil: works for a few days but then stopped working with no obvious damage. Probily the capacitors soaked up the oil and that changed their electrical properites.

    So theonly this stuff will work is if you use some kind os sealent on the board around the capicators and that might not even work...

  6. Evaporation... by Benm78 · · Score: 5, Informative
    Take a look at these specs:

    Boiling Point @ 1 atm 49.2 C
    Heat of Vaporization @ boiling point 88.0 kJ/kg
    Vapor Pressure 0.404 bar

    This is a liquid that will readily evaporate (a little slower than ether would). If a limited quanitity is used (such as in a hand-held extinguisher), it will probably evaporate before you get the chance to clean it up.

    The article also states that the LC50 is over 10% by volume, which tells this substance is probably not very dangerous, unless specific medical problems arise.

    As it seems to be safe to the atmosphere as well, i guess the 'plan' is to just let it sit there and evaporate.

    This may sound dangerous, but we do the same with CO2 - which is more lethal to anyone entering the room and possibly to the environment (global warming) as well.

    1. Re:Evaporation... by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 4, Informative

      Vapor Pressure 0.404 bar
      LC50 is over 10% by volume

      Yikes! At room temperature in a closed room this stuff would be present at 40% by volume!

      This stuff is quite dangerous.

  7. Re:Safe? by HeghmoH · · Score: 4, Informative

    Asinine is defined as "Utterly stupid or silly." Doesn't that disqualify true statements? Caffeine is more toxic than plutonium.

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  8. Bad idea. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    One problem. Try heating a frying pan with nothing on it. After you can sense that it's hot enough, sprinkle a little water on it. The water will float over the pan.

    When the water makes contact with the hot pan, it turns to steam, which then insulates the remaining water above the pocket. The temperature of that pocket of steam gets quite high since it has little opportunity to escape and doesn't really get cooled. More importantly, the pan gets very little cooling effect from the water evaporation.

    Therefore, you should never rely on coolant when any part of it is at or very close to its boiling point. The coolant properties of the fluid break down.

    The above doesn't really match your example, since it's not immersed within a coolant environment. For a better example, use a boiling pot of water. Examination of the locations of steam nucleation reveal that those areas (however small) do not get wet, and gets insulated as illustrated above.

    1. Re:Bad idea. by rthille · · Score: 4, Informative

      Just because the coolant is boiling doesn't mean the cooling properties break down, they are just different.
      The droplet of water example is pretty silly, since little droplets of water wouldn't cool the pan much even if they weren't boiling.
      Here's an example that shows that even boiling water cools just fine. Take a sheet of notebook paper and hold it over a gas stove. Watch it burst into flames. Now fold another sheet of notebook paper until it works as a paper cup. Fill the paper cup with water, put directly over the flame of the gas stove. Wait for water to boil, add tea bag and enjoy.
      Google Search for 'water boil paper cup'

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  9. Done since.. like... 1920 by poptones · · Score: 4, Informative
    All it takes is a tank of Mineral oil. Mineral oil has been used to cool electronic components since there WERE electronic components. I'm surprised no ham has chimed on on this yet - a "dummy load" antenna is little more than a bigass resistor submerged in a gallon pail of mineral oil, and one of those things will take several hundred watts of RF energy before overloading.

    I've seen submerged mineral oil cpu boards before. Heck, here's one right here at the very top of the Google.

  10. Nuclear Reactors do it by MikeMo · · Score: 4, Informative

    Some reactors (namely, Boiling Water reactors) run right at the boiling point. They use nucleate boiling at the surface of the fuel rod to break up a laminate layer that tends to insulate the rod from the rest of the water. In other words, the turbulance caused by the boiling increases the heat transfer rate.