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India Starts All-Electronic National Elections
fantomas writes "Forget the problems of e-voting in a state in some middling sized western country as recently reported by Slashdot. The world's largest democracy is about to go to the polling stations and vote for a new government using all-electronic voting systems. Will it work? Will the USA follow if all goes to plan? Can any readers from India comment on how it seems to be going?"
Some "third-world" countries have difficulty keeping track of their population, in other words, some people simply are not registered on any lists. For those countries, using biometrics for voting actually makes sense, as it allows for "unregistered" people but disallows them from voting twice. In fact, it's a bit of a paradox - biometrics could actually be the answer for those people who don't like the government keeping records on them.
Will it work?
Why so much scepticism? The electronic voting machines are being used in India from quite some time now. But this is the first time that the whole of the general election will be paperless. So it is just the matter of scale (1 million voting machines), which is of interest.
In many fields the 'rich west' will eventually be overrun by the third world.
Why ? Because they have absolutely nothing holding them back, whereas we have a substantial investment in our current infrastructure.
That makes us conservative - resistant to change - even if that change is for the better.
Look at the entrenchement of MS for example. They will continue to receive cash that could have been spend better for a long long time to come.
Meanwhile the rest of the world - the poor part that is - is absolutely free to adapt linux, not having a vested interest in 3rd party closed source they will outstrip the west in knowledge about these systems in a very few years.
Unless of course we decide to 'move first' again.
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Now India has an interesting democracy - a 22-party coalition (which is expected to win this election as well) in control of the government. That's quite a refreshing change from the point of view of someone in an (effectively) one-party state like South Africa (with the African National Congress getting a controlling 69% in the recent election). I'm not sure which would be better, 2 strong parties, like in the US, or dozens of small parties forming coalitions, like in India. I would guess that the coalitions would allow for more fluidity in politics than 2 (or a few) strong parties.
raj
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The main issue is that the software used is closed-source, and it is closed even to the political parties involved in the election.
But now there's some pressure to open-source the code, mostly by the left-winged parties (PDT, PC do B, PSTU, PT and smaller ones). And there is a good chance that it may happen, because our current governament is supporting, and recommending, opensource software.
With some work, in the future Brazil may be the fist country to use full electronic elections, with full open-souce software!
For those who don't want to RTFA about the election itself , this BBC link within the story is about the voting machines themselves.
Brazil's last general elections were all electronic. No big news there. There is a single Brazilian system, where a different company designs each module. Party-appointed technical representatives can audit the whole system.
India and Brazil have other things in common: illiteracy and poverty. Most of the users of the electronic ballots in Brazil cannot understand what they read on the screen. Electoral candidates in small towns "teach" people to vote on them, by making them memorize the key sequences.
I just wonder if these countries couldn't be spending time, money, and minds on more relevant issues.
This guy faced the threat of actual violence at the polls. He turned up to vote nonetheless. It's great to see that some people still believe in democracy.
Meanwhile, elsewhere in the world in the homelands of democracy, the turnout at elections is what exactly, these days? And the danger we face on our way to the polls is... the prospect of injury caused by getting our fat arses off the sofa once every five years?
Sometimes I think we deserve the George and Tony show, I really do.
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
It's a good move because the size of our population. I heard from a government employee who worked in the state elections that Ballot stuffing is common. One of the leading parties is actually paying election workers to 'press the button' for them on the machines. This was not so convenient before. This happened in the state elections for sure, and will probably happen in the nationals too. The market for illegally made 'homebrew' weapons (costing as less as $30) is flourishing as the election arrives. Efforts have been made for security of election booths, but it's doubtful how security will fare against bribes. The routine election-season killings have already started. On the whole, introducing e-voting in India is like throwing water in a puddle of mud - you can move faster in it, but it makes you much dirteir all the same.
Last Year they gave all the registered voters photo identity cards , using Biometrics even our thumbimpression is in their system,
Hold the "illitracy" jokes(i am typing this arent i)
then they sent a slip telling us where we have to go to cast out vote , even the booth no.
they had 2 EVMs 1 4 parliamentary election and another for local assembly elections,
they ofcourse put the customary indelible ink on the left index finger. probably becoz some people feel nostalgic of the "gud 'ol days"
when u cud raid a polling booth and take away the ballot boxes
and then cry foul play!!!
hav phun
This is how it worked for me today:
1. You need a voter id card. If you don't have that, any govt. id is supposed to work.
2. They check your name twice against two hardcopies of the voter lists. In addition, the larger parties have their own guys hanging around with their own copies of the voter lists to make sure there's no mischief.
3. You sign or fingerprint against your name in a ledger.
4. Next you get a dab of indelible ink on your left index finger.
5. Finally, they enable the EVM by pressing a master key. A green light comes on on the box.
6. You get to vote. The green light goes off, and the button you hit goes red. After a delay of about 5 seconds, it beeps and goes off.
What could be easier?
Surely even americans might be able to follow the above.
Why don't you guys outsource your next election to the Indian Election Commission and you won't get that miserable failure as a president for the second time?
Is your system set up to allow votes for people not listed i.e. write-ins or do you have to select 'only' from the list provided?
If you have to select from the list, can you withhold your vote on parts of the ballot because you don't like any of the candidates or does that invalidate the entire ballot?
'And all the monkeys aren't in the zoo Every day you meet quite a few...'
I am from and in India. AFAIK, we have not had any problems with these electronic voting machines. They have been in use for quite some time now, they were never used in all constituencies, however.
:). The Election Comission would be forced to use paper ballots. These goons resort to capturing polling booths and electronic voting machines make their task tough.
:) :)
The only potential problem with them that I have come across in local media reports is that of some political goons registering dozens of dummy candidates... their aim being to have more candidates in a constituency than the number of buttons on the machines
Now I guess these enterprising political goons will have to enlist hackers
I am sure if there's an american hacker out there upto the task, he/she can reverse the outsourcing thing
Dont make a better sig, you insensitive clod!
The electronic machines were last used in elections to four different state goverments in december of 2003. Taking advantage of the fact that many voters in remote areas were illiterate and were using the electronic machines for the first time, the election volunteers instructed them to vote for a particular party only, explaining that, that is the only button that works on the machine.
Now the interesting fact is that most of these volunteers were government employees and they were pissed off at the outgoing government for withholding their bonuses and they had a score to settle with them.
So they instructed the poor illterate voters to vote for the rival party!
I'm quite sure that there would be many such intances in this election of politicians exploting people's ignorance and getting them to vote for some party for which they might not have wanted to vote.
Don't care about an issue? Don't vote. Care passionately? Vote! We'll have an electorate that is much more knowledgeable. We'll eliminate the graft and corruption that is inevitable when big money pays for a campaign to elect someone who is supposed to represent the electorate. Cut out the middle man and vote on the issues directly. And no more pork filled bills with hundreds of items snuck in there, allowing politicians to claim they voted for something very noble and patriotic, when they actually voted themselves a raise and everyone traded votes for their favorite pork barrel projects.
>> My ultraviolent Linux switch video.
And did US used that enormous experience to aid the implementation of a e-voting there? No...
So what would make anywone think they would follow Indias foot steps?
I dont think so.
I voted this morning. As an aside, I need to mention that this is actully the SECOND time my constituency used the EVMs. the last time was around 1999.
anyway, one thing i noticed about the EVMs while voting was that there is no way for me to know that the vote got registered against the candidate I actually voted for. of course, these machines have been tested fairly well enough [manufacturers Bharat Electronics Ltd (www.bel-india.com)]. But I need to know for sure too.
The other issue has to do with the number of candidates that can be accomodated on the EVM (perhaps 20 or so). The last general elections in 1999 in India threw up a logistical problem. One particular constituency had, well, 400 candidates. The Election Commission had to revert to paper. Why there were 400 candidates is besides the point(not relevant here).
simpler and more complicated. See, to get a job -- any regularized job... -- you have to be a registered and showing voter. You have to show your Voter ID (called "Título de Eleitor") and a ticket showing you voted in the last election. If you don't have such ticket, you can't vote in the next election, too. But, most important, you can't get a job in government. In the next year, you won't be eligible to receive any $$$ from the government, including tax returns. If you don't show up to vote, you have to go to your Electoral Court and justify why you were absent (can be done by snail-mail, too, but even so you can be called to testify on Court) and pay a small fine.
So, every mandatory voter (literate 18-65yo people) has its Voter ID regularized.
You get in the section, show your voter id to the "mesário", sign a sheet, vote, get your "showed up" ticket, and go away.
Here, there is no transit vote (you can only vote in your section), and the Voter ID is nationwide (the database is central). It's fairly difficult to vote twice (but not impossible).
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048