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"Missing Link" In Windows Emulation Unveiled?
ben_ writes "According to this article on inq7.net, a Philippines company called SpecOps has revealed their Project David, a middleware layer that solves the problem Wine has been working at for years and will "enable all major Microsoft Windows applications to run on the free and open source Linux OS".
Further (and more sceptical) analysis at Linux Electrons." I'm with Linux Electrons on this; as nice as it sounds, the information about David comes via Press Release which as we all know are founts of dependability *cough*.
It's only symbolic.
Hopefully this isn't a result of the supposed 'leaked' code awhile back. If it was, and Microsoft finds out, it could set them back twice as far as they've come.
All jokes aside, BSODs are very very few and far between (certainly on the *nix scale) since 2k/XP was released. Before 2k/XP most people blammed microsoft when in reality it was buggy drivers. Now with the new driver model these instances of drivers crashing the kernel are rather rare. When a company claims to have found a "bug" which was a relativly well-known design decision they have lost most all credibility. This is either a pump-and-dump scheme, vaporware or an instance of code stealing.
Comments on the article website seem to suggest that this *may* be a re-engineer of the Win32 api based on the stolen win2k codebase.
The phillipines is not known for its strict adherence to interlectual properties laws.
Actually, would this even be illegal?
If the codebase was stolen in the US, looked at in the phillipines and a program written based on that looking, would the program be legal in the US or not?
And what about elsewhere in the world?
Official GOD FAQ.
Hello,
this announcement reminds me of waht Lindows told us back then. I mean 100% Windows compatibility and such. The linked article seems quite ridiculous to me.
I mean "while all those projects emulating windows inherit the windows specific problems like instability, out new implementation does not contain those, thus is stabler then windows".
This is just another WINE-ripoff combined with good PR. Don't believe a thing!
Philip
"David is currently 25% completed with the Systems Design Phase of development."
... high on hyperbole with little to no substance.
If this works, great. Going through there website doesn't fill me with any confidence.
Very reminiscint of Infinium Labs [www.infiniumlabs.com]
One to watch, yes; but really, don't hold your breath.
Apparently, you don't even need to install it! What will they think of next...
If this is a silver bullet app, then why does it only work on 'major' apps???
Remembering that you are going to die is the best way I know to avoid the trap of thinking you have something to lose.
I am not sure that MS would want to do anything about this. They aren't going to stop Linux, maybe slow it down , but not stop it, and I think they are smart enough to know that. If David actually passes puberty without dying, it would give MS another platform to sell their products on. Secondly it would give publishers little reason to spend time porting their code to Linux when they on't need to. That in itself might play well into MS's hand. This could be a double edged sword.
Full text, without comments:
SpecOpS Labs is developing a Systems Level product called David . The primary purpose of David is to
provide a platform, which will serve as a viable alternative to the MS Windows Operating System.
Our first release of David, version 1.0, will be a Middleware program that will sit on top of the free and
open-source Linux operating system, and enable it to seamlessly run most Windows applications. Working in the
background, David will enable users to run their favorite programs with the look-and-feel they are familiar with.
*COMMENTED OUT*
The next generation will, in effect, incorporate the operating system into the web browser, virtually eliminating
the need for an operating system eventually, except to boot the computer and launch the browser.
*END COMMENTED OUT*
David will be configured to be made available for installation either through the internet or from a compact disk
or DVD. It may either be pre-installed by OEMs, or may be easily installed by consumers themselves in plug-and-play
fashion.
*COMMENTED OUT*
David will be distributed to consumers in five releases. See the Information Memorandum within the Investor
Relations section for detailed information on each scheduled release. The David V 1.0 architectural framework has
been validated, prototyped, and copyrighted and has entered the full design and development stage.
*END COMMENTED OUT*
Running Windows Applications on Linux. Most of the popular software applications such as Word,
Excel, Quicken and PageMaker are designed to run exclusively on the Windows OS;
that is, Windows applications cannot natively run on the Linux operating system.
However there are three alternative methods of running Windows applications on
the Linux OS. These three methods include:
*COMMENTED OUT*
the David Technology
Link describes the simulation of the Windows Environment
Subsystem. For a detailed explanation of the other 3 methods,
click on the Our Market
- Competitors section of this website.
*END COMMENTED OUT*
Haven't you seen the Microsoft ads? There is no TCO advantage in linux.
If I understand what I'm reading correctly, they're in essence taking advantage of how NT/XP is designed.
As I have learned it, the NT Kernel is separate from the Win32 API. The Win32 system makes calls into the kernel to get system things done (like disk and screen I/O), but tracks all the Win32 stuff itself (like windows and message queues). Win32 is, in essence, just a 'personality' running on the NT core. Someone (Microsoft themselves, I think) is doing another personality module for the NT kernel that will let it run Unixy stuff too, at the same time as the Win32 stuff.
What WINE is doing, which is incredibly difficult, is rewriting the entire Win32 API so that existing programs will run under Unix. This has taken them many, many years, and it's fairly good now, but it's far from a complete solution, largely because it's so difficult.
It sounds like the David project will probably run the *existing* Win32 API (which is hard to replace), and write a new set of kernel routines to emulate the NT kernel. AFAIK, most of the work on NT is at the Win32 level, the kernel itself doesn't get that much work, because it's really solid and really stable. So they're not chasing a moving target in quite the same way.
Presumably, the separation between the Win32 personality and the NT kernel is drawn clearly enough that they can replace the kernel without breaking things too badly. At least, that would appear to be how they're thinking about it.
This would probably mean you'd need to install Windows under Linux, in order to get a proper Win32 personality. The net effect would be very much like the way that OS/2 used to run Windows 3.1. (remember 'a better Windows than Windows'? It was!)
I believe this could work. It would not, however, remove the need to own a copy of Windows, so its use would be more for the pragmatists ('we want it to work') than the idealists ('we want it to be free').
This would dissasemble the x86 windows binaries, rewriting any low level OS library and hardware access code, emitting Linux compatible executable binaries. This could be done both Ahead Of Time, before execution, and Just In Time, during execution. Caching the resulting rewrite on disk would speed up execution a lot.
A neat trick if possible. However Soft Labs would have to reverse engineer a hell of a lot of Microsoft's OS to manage it.
"they're at 0% of dev / engineering."
Well... you have to give it to them... they still don't have any bugs
If Wine/David becomes so good that a windows program runs *as well* on Linux(under wine) as it does on windows, Linux may suffer the same fate as OS/2. Remember WIN/OS2? The development community saw this functionality as an excuse to write their apps. to windows (why worry about OS/2 when they have WIN/OS2?) Before you knew it, nobody was writing OS/2 apps..... and OS/2 cratered.
Bzzzt. Wrong.
The (academic) definition of "operating system" is "interface to the hardware".
"kernel" in unix terms is synonymous with "operating system".
"distro" is "operating environment".
If you *really* want a complete rant on this, I have written one, sad individual that I am.
In future, please refer to a recognised textbook (suggestions in the link above) before jumping in.
The webpage isn't brokem it's just that they are running it on IIS under their emulation and there are still a few bugs to work out.... ...yeah, that's it...
The party of stupid and the party of evil get together and do something both stupid and evil, then call it bipartisan.