Geronimo 1.0 Milestone Build M1 Released

Dain Sundstrom writes "The Geronimo team is pleased to announce the availability of our first milestone release, 1.0 M1. M1 marks the first of many milestone releases to come. This milestone integrates the main container components: Geronimo, MX4J, Jetty, OpenEJB and ActiveMQ. It has been amazing to see our communities come together and show such strong support for Apache Geronimo. There is still much work to be done on this integration and we look forward to fostering more collaboration between our projects to create an even more unified M2. As this is our first release and bound to draw a lot of attention, we have put together a thorough set of release notes which detail the current state of Geronimo. We advise that this is simply a milestone release and is not for general use, nor is it any indication of a final release. Our goal with this release is to start out slowly with a base set of functionality and gather some initial feedback that we can incorporate into future milestones."

Comments

Ok great

[krisp]

Nice, but what exactly does it DO? Thanks for all the information about how big a milestone it is, but don't you think some information on what it is would be useful?

Re:Ok great

[LowneWulf]

According to Apache's incubator project listing, it's a "J2EE container".

Though the descriptive article link to a wiki saying nothing but "LOL JEWS" sure didn't clarify that for me. Hope their J2EE implementation is more secure than their website.

Re:Ok great

[chocobot]

whatever it is, it RULES!

Re:Ok great

[pete-classic]

Try here.

Lovely to see the /. trolls branching out like that. :-/

-Peter

Re:Ok great

[KillerLoop]

It's an Enterprise JavaBeans (EJB) container, where you can deploy enterprise archives and ... well, run them.

Think Tomcat, which is a container for web applications. Geronimo runs along the same vein but for EJB's. In fact it incorporates a Servlet/Web/JSP container of its own, namely Jetty.

And yes, it's Java stuff.

Re:Ok great

[D-Cypell]

It is intentionally insecure. The page linked to is a wiki. Anyone can edit the text of the page and it allows the community to get involved in on the fly documentation.

Its a little brave to do this, but I guess they didnt bank on slashdot inviting the goatse.cx brigade along.

Re:Ok great

[i_am_pi]

Even braver is the notification section. It sends out email whenever someone modifies a page. Someone's going to have about 30093247983274928374 messages in their inbox by the time this gets taken off the front page.

Re:Ok great

[Ifni]

At this point, I think that the article posters are being intentionally vague. I was laughing as I read the article, because it reminded me almost exactly of this tongue in cheek post.

It's like a commercial - long on statements, short on information

Re:Ok great

[the MaD HuNGaRIaN]

"In fact it incorporates a Servlet/Web/JSP container of its own, namely Jetty."

Just for clarification, Jetty was written by Greg Wilkins and is maintained by him and MortBay Consulting. It uses jasper as it's JSP engine, but is otherwise much faster than Tomcat. So to say Jetty is part of the Geronimo project is sort of misleading--as it is it's own entity. But that's the nice thing about good design--these things are modular.

Re:Ok great

[Anonymous Coward]

And here's a flamer branching out for you:

Fuck you.

Re:Ok great

[Anonymous Coward]

If they had bothered to explain what it did, then over half the slashdot audience wouldn't have bothered to read the article, and thus there would be little ad revenue for this article.

Hence: no details, but the writeup sure does sound exciting!

Re:Ok great

[Anonymous Coward]

Whups, brain fart... I said "article" when I meant "comments". Of course no-one will read the article.

Re:Ok great

[asjo]

It's an Enterprise JavaBeans (EJB) container, where you can deploy enterprise archives and ... well, run them.

Think Tomcat, which is a container for web applications. Geronimo runs along the same vein but for EJB's. In fact it incorporates a Servlet/Web/JSP container of its own, namely Jetty.

Ok, so: what is it?

Re:Ok great

[Slashcrunch]

Hmmm... I dunno??

How about READING THE ARTICLE... oh right, this is Slashdot...

Re:Ok great

[mabinogi]

That's not really accurate.

It's a J2EE container / application server, which means that yes it'll host EJBs but EJB is not it's sole purpose.

J2EE application servers provide EJB, JMS, Servlet/JSP, Web Services, JNDI for service and resource location, and a whole heap of other standard APIs.

Geronimo takes the approach of integrating a whole heap of existing apache licensed components into the one cohesive server.

A lot of people think that EJB is all there is to J2EE, but it's not - in fact it's the least important component, the one that should be avoided completely unless you really know you need it.

Re:Ok great

[Anonymous Coward]

There is a certain tradition of vagueness with this apache.org Java stuff. Try configuring a database. You ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO read the security pages; you may think it's all optional, and you can do more than 'Hello World' without serious research, but reality will quickly set in.
I may yet get my junk to work in time to avoid failing my class.
And this is not a troll.
They've done a marvelous job of making a robust, stable product, without a case of Multiple Sclerosis in the security department.
And I'm sure that, were I running a business, I could make the configuration issues vanish in a puff of contract.
But the market share of all this stuff is diminished by how un-obvious some of the configuration aspects are.
Back to work.

Re:Ok great

[Anonymous Coward]

Wiki is gay.

What a stupid damned idea. There needs to be an anti-wiki movement.

It's the ASF's J2EE Container

[SwansonMarpalum]

Given that the ASF has wider industry support and several members of Sun, it may even get certified. This would be potentially bad news for JBoss.

Re:It's the ASF's J2EE Container

[Anonymous Coward]

Some time in the near future...
Geronimo: *puffs chest out* We're certified!
JBoss: *looks up from work* That's nice. We've got 38% market share.

The key word is "potentially". Given politics, it's quite possible that could happen, but c'mon, they're talking about a milestone release that's not meant for general release. Right now, JBoss has 27% market share according to their website. I don't think the JBoss guys are shaking in their boots just yet.

Re:It's the ASF's J2EE Container

[Anonymous Coward]

Apache only needs to do what they always do - put out a better product and capture the market. I for one would be extatic to get rid of the *!%# JBoss corporation simply because their quirky leadership doesn't seem to be able to set a strategy and follow it. That's all I want. A good product and a stable strategy.

Re:It's the ASF's J2EE Container

[Beleglin]

I guess ASF could finally certify it's J2EE container, but maybe it'll take a while to implement the whole J2EE 1.4 specification.
There is another open source J2EE container, Jonas (Java Open Application Server, from Objectweb consortium) who is aiming for J2EE 1.4 certification. I've used their J2EE 1.3 -compliant versions, and latest stable version (3.3.6) is really a very good container implementation, even in production environments.
First milestone release (4.0) of J2EE 1.4 container is already released.
I think that Jonas could very well be the first certified open source container.

Re:It's the ASF's J2EE Container

[the MaD HuNGaRIaN]

But, let's not forget how JBoss got that market-share.
We switched to it because it satisfied our requirements while meeting our budget ($0).
I can tell you right now that while we are very grateful for JBoss, the people, the project, etc, we don't feel any special allegiance.

In other words, if another product comes along that is as good or better and falls within the same budget.....I guess what I am trying to say is that the EARs and WARs don't really care much as long as the container is written to the spec.

That's the beauty of Java. You're not really locked into solutions from any given vendor. (Please, let's not get into a "but Sun..." discussion here). If the containers are written to the spec, it should be reasonably trivial to switch implementations--as long as you stay away from container specific things.

I'm not saying JBoss should be shaking, but it's nice to see something that will create competition and drive innovation in the free as in beer J2EE app server market.

Re:It's the ASF's J2EE Container

[aminorex]

Have you tried installing this bale of twine?
I'd call it the best thing that could ever happen
to JBoss.

Re:It's the ASF's J2EE Container

[Anonymous Coward]

I am actually betting that JBoss will be the first to certify. Having been through it once, it takes a non-trivial amount of work to get the cert to pass which means you're going to need some financial support if you want it done quick.

Re:It's the ASF's J2EE Container

[Anonymous Coward]

An Open Source product with a strategy would be the first.... More like -- any random feature was added depending on whatever any random developer felt like doing. That's not a strategy.

Re:It's the ASF's J2EE Container

[liloldme]

it should be reasonably trivial to switch implementations--as long as you stay away from container specific things.

In the real world, it is impossible to write a J2EE application that doesn't use any container specific things.

Clustering, security, ORM -- none of these are part of the specification.

hacked?

[mthahn]

Looks like someone hacked the homepage?

Re:hacked?

[Anonymous Coward]

it's a wiki dumbass

Re:hacked?

[sakshale]

The joys of allowing fools to access a Wikki site.

Re:Hacked?

[i_am_pi]

It's a "wiki" which allows anyone to edit the text. You can see the differences between versions by clicking on the colored glasses. Bad idea to post a site that anyone can edit on the front page of slashdot.

It could be worse, they could allow image posting.

Re:hacked?

[chocobot]

I can't belive someone is so full of shit that he deletes a public webpage, just because he can! Oh, just reloaded, seems to be restored. Sucks anyway.

Re:hacked?

[eaddict]

Must be some upset NASCAR fans that haven't tossed enough beer cars and trash. Frankly things like this defacing just reaffirm how far the human race has got to go to become civilized.

Re:hacked?

[w42w42]

It's a wiki. The 'real' geronimo page is at http://incubator.apache.org/projects/geronimo.html

Re:Hacked?

[CFBMoo1]

This appears to be the same person (or group) who left very similar comments on the Corel Word perfect story earlier on the articles site.

Re:hacked?

[FreeLinux]

It appears that the GNAA troll has re-defaced the page since last you reloaded.

I can't belive someone is so full of

You aren't familiar with the concept of vandals and grafiti "artists"? With most websites going to great effort to prevent unauthorized access and still being owned and defaced, I can't believe that people still subscribe to the Wiki concept. Without access control this type of thing is guaranteed. With access control it is far less likely but, still not ouy of the relm of possibility.

Re:Hacked?

[CoolVibe]

Seems they rollbacked what the trolls did to it already. Yay for wikis with version management :)

Maybe the wiki should be locked down for a bit since the trolls are constantly changing it back with some stupid trollish message. Or send abuse messages to the ISP's off the trolls that are listed in the RecentChanges link. Yeah, their full host names are shown. So much for anonymity.

Re:Hacked?

[Anonymous Coward]

the GNAA uses open proxies

-Penisbird

Re:Hacked?

[CoolVibe]

If that's true, someone should hack in RBL blacklisting support and use a RBL that has open proxies in it.

Re:Hacked?

[Anonymous Coward]

It is true.

That too can be easily defeated, trust me. You can't keep up nor can you win.

Re:hacked?

[Kjella]

With most websites going to great effort to prevent unauthorized access and still being owned and defaced, I can't believe that people still subscribe to the Wiki concept. Without access control this type of thing is guaranteed.

True. But there's 1) No challenge and 2) Everybody else can revert it. On some topics there's obviously flamewars (try Hitler on wikipedia), but otherwise not. The other kind is trolls, but there's no fun trolling an obscure page.

The only reason is when a page is getting massive hits due to a special event (e.g. slashdotting), at which point you may have troll/revert wars. The other 99,9% of the time, the page will be just fine. Solution: Create a static mirror when you want to send a shitload of people there.

Wikis are great, but you need to use them wisely. Perhaps you could solve all this with a link to a *static* version of the Wiki page, with an auto-generated "This snapshot was made on Xx/YY/ZZZZ. To see the current version, click *here*" on top.

Kjella

Re:Hacked?

[tuxathon]

Click the 'Logo Contest' link. That's where the fun begins. Just don't do it at work.

alright

[Anonymous Coward]

I find the total lack of information on this software, save its name, disturbing. We're glad it's out, but what the hell is it?

Re:alright

[Anne Thwacks]

Read the ... WTF!

Hibernate?

[jlrobins_uncc]

I wonder if it will ever be able to contain / integrate hibernate, or will that be verboten by JBoss LLC?

Word around the campfire says it requires far fewer contortions than CMP beans.

Congrats to both JBoss and Geronimo. May they both provide middleware containers that don't suck.

Re:Hibernate?

[BuddieFox]

You can use Hibernate in you applications and deploy it on Geronimo to your hearts content. Hibernate is application server neutral and doesnt even require an application server! You can use it in your standalone apps as well. And I would definitely recommend using Hibernate, I have pushed it into several big commercial projects and its worked like a charm. for more info on Hibernate.

Re:Hibernate?

[joib]

I don't think that will happen, since Hibernate is LGPL and Geronimo is ASL.

That being said, Hibernate combined with Spring will do 99% of what EJB is used for, with a significantly reduced amount of pain.

Annoying

[N8F8]

Dear ED: Please ensure authors give brief discription of obscure projects when submitting news of obscure projects.

Hacked?

[tuxathon]

Has anyone clicked on the link. The Geronimo site appears to be hacked.

What is Apache Geronimo - Answer -from Apache site

[savageps91]

ripped off of the Apache Geronimo Wiki:

http://wiki.apache.org/geronimo

The Apache Software Foundation has initiated a project to develop an open source, Apache-licensed, implementation of the J2EE specification. In addition, the project is committed to certifying the implementation as J2EE compliant. This is an ambitious goal and will present a formidable challenge for the people involved, given the wide range of technologies covered by the specification. Apache Geronimo builds upon the many Java projects at the Apache Software Foundation. In addition, the project is bringing together members of the Castor, JBoss, MX4J and OpenEJB communities. We would like to extend an open invitation to everyone involved in the J2EE space, both commercial entities and talented individuals, to join the community and build a world-class J2EE implementation. The Apache Software Foundation is in a unique position to build a J2EE compliant platform. Our non-profit, charity status, and our relationship with Sun Microsystems, provides the foundation with access to the J2EE TCKs, making it possible to achieve certification. In addition, our flexible and unrestrictive licensing makes it possible for a wide variety of participants to assist in the development of Apache Geronimo, and to build their own solutions upon the platform. Apache Geronimo has been launched within the Apache Incubator.

Nice going...

[D-Cypell]

A suggestion...

Dont link front page slashdot stories to wiki pages!

Re:Nice going...

[FortKnox]

Actually, it gives people some insight.

Wanna know who the GNAA trolls are? Take a gander at this.

Re:Nice going...

[Anonymous Coward]

Most interesting so far:

The [http://www.apache.org Apache Software Foundation] has initiated a project to develop an open sauce, [http://www.apache.org/foundation/licence-FAQ.html A1 Steak Sauce-licensed], implementation of the [http://java.sun.com/j2ee Heinz Tomato Ketchup] specification. In addition, the project is committed to certifying the implementation as [http://java.sun.com/j2ee/verified ketchup compliant]. This is an ambitious goal and will present a formidable challenge for the people involved, given the wide range of tomatoes covered by the specification.

Re:Nice going...

[CptChipJew]

Chances are they surf behind proxies.

-An Ex-Troll

Re:Nice going...

[dsandler]

Agreed--it's really AskingForTrouble.

Re:Nice going...

[i_am_pi]

Sigh.

The GNAA is full of proxies. That, and you also know who half the people who reverted the page are too. This wiki doesn't seem to be as userfriendly as Wikipedia, so i can't figure out how to diff each revision

Re:Nice going...

[Anonymous Coward]

Here.

Can it compete with JBoss?

[wackysootroom]

Now that JBoss has been out for quite some time and set itself up as the premiere Open Source J2EE server, how will Apache get people to try Geronimo out, especially seeing as the 1st milestone lacks many features?

Will it be Speed? Security? Ease of configuration?

Hopefully all 3. I can't wait to try it out.

Re:Can it compete with JBoss?

[razmaspaz]

how will Apache get people to try Geronimo out, especially seeing as the 1st milestone lacks many features

I can't wait to try it out.

Thats how

Re:Can it compete with JBoss?

[Anonymous Coward]

Stable Apache strategy and a future-proof product vs. JBoss. Hmm, let me think.

How the hell am I supposed to post

[Anonymous Coward]

without reading the article? Valuable first post time was taken up by trying to find out what this is.

I have been robbed, and I still don't know.

Help for the Acronym Handicapped?

[eSims]

After perusing the release notes I still haven't a clue.

Perhaps an enlightened someone could tell us what Geronimo does in Layman terms?

Re:Help for the Acronym Handicapped?

[anarxia]

It's a server for running Web-based java applications.

Wiki is a pain

[cyberlotnet]

When you have a site like this.. That gets slashdotted, thinking that the thousand's of visitors there wont be a ahole that wiki-kills the page is stupid.. Anyway I was nice and pulled up the diff/fixed it.. lets see how long it lasts.

Re:Wiki is a pain

[cyberlotnet]

Sigh, I fixed the page 3 times, I give up

FrontPage

[Anonymous Coward]

FrontPage Wiki Text, to battle the Trolls: (You may remove the last section as you see fit.) With love, hattmoward

#pragma section-numbers off

'''Contents'''
[[TableOfContents]]

= About =

The [http://www.apache.org Apache Software Foundation] has initiated a project to develop an open source, [http://www.apache.org/foundation/licence-FAQ.html Apache-licensed], implementation of the [http://java.sun.com/j2ee J2EE] specification. In addition, the project is committed to certifying the implementation as [http://java.sun.com/j2ee/verified J2EE compliant]. This is an ambitious goal and will present a formidable challenge for the people involved, given the wide range of technologies covered by the specification.

[wiki:WhyApacheGeronimo Apache Geronimo] builds upon the many [http://java.sun.com Java] projects at the Apache Software Foundation. In addition, the project is bringing together members of the [http://castor.exolab.org Castor], [http://www.jboss.org/index.html JBoss], [http://mx4j.sourceforge.net MX4J] and [http://www.openejb.org OpenEJB] communities. We would like to extend an open invitation to everyone involved in the J2EE space, both commercial entities and talented individuals, to join the community and build a world-class J2EE implementation.

The Apache Software Foundation is in a unique position to build a J2EE compliant platform. Our non-profit, charity status, and our relationship with [http://sun.com Sun Microsystems], provides the foundation with access to the J2EE [wiki:TCK TCK]s, making it possible to achieve certification. In addition, our flexible and unrestrictive licensing makes it possible for a wide variety of participants to assist in the development of Apache Geronimo, and to build their own solutions upon the platform.

Apache Geronimo has been launched within the [http://incubator.apache.org Apache Incubator].

= Logo contest =

The logo contest has been restarted. Please visit [http://lm.pleaseeat.us/Apache/LogoContest/ LogoContest] for more information.

= Downloads =

Binaries
* [http://cvs.apache.org/dist/incubator/geronimo/inc ubator-geronimo-1.0-M1-bin.zip 1.0-M1 zip] [http://cvs.apache.org/dist/incubator/geronimo/inc ubator-geronimo-1.0-M1-bin.zip.asc PGP] [http://cvs.apache.org/dist/incubator/geronimo/inc ubator-geronimo-1.0-M1-bin.zip.md5 MD5]
* [http://cvs.apache.org/dist/incubator/geronimo/inc ubator-geronimo-1.0-M1-bin.tar.gz 1.0-M1 tar.gz] [http://cvs.apache.org/dist/incubator/geronimo/inc ubator-geronimo-1.0-M1-bin.tar.gz.asc PGP] [http://cvs.apache.org/dist/incubator/geronimo/inc ubator-geronimo-1.0-M1-bin.tar.gz.md5 MD5]

Source Code
* [http://cvs.apache.org/dist/incubator/geronimo/inc ubator-geronimo-1.0-M1-src.zip 1.0-M1 zip] [http://cvs.apache.org/dist/incubator/geronimo/inc ubator-geronimo-1.0-M1-src.zip.asc PGP] [http://cvs.apache.org/dist/incubator/geronimo/inc ubator-geronimo-1.0-M1-src.zip.md5 MD5]
* [http://cvs.apache.org/dist/incubator/geronimo/inc ubator-geronimo-1.0-M1-src.tar.gz 1.0-M1 tar.gz] [http://cvs.apache.org/dist/incubator/geronimo/inc ubator-geronimo-1.0-M1-src.tar.gz.asc PGP] [http://cvs.apache.org/dist/incubator/geronimo/inc ubator-geronimo-1.0-M1-src.tar.gz.md5 MD5]

[http://cvs.apache.org/dist/incubator/gero nimo/KEYS KEYS]

= CVS Repository =

Instructions on CVS use can be found [wiki:CvsInstructions here] (includes instructions for building a `diff`)

== Web Access ==
[http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs/incubator-geronimo/ ]

== Anonymous CVS Access ==
The Geronimo CVS repository can be checked out through anonymous (pserver) CVS with the following instruction set. When prompted for a password for anonymous, simply press the Enter key.

What it is ...

[jlrobins_uncc]

For those who don't read the article....

Geronimo is an attempt to produce an apache-licensed J2EE middleware stack. Another player in the JBoss realm, apache licensed as opposed to GPL backed by the JBoss commercial company.

Will end up being another postgres vs. mysql 'battle':

One with more features than the other
Different licenses
One propped up by a company

[ We're a JBoss (GPL, not LLC) / Postgres shop ourselves ]

Re:What it is ...

[LaceHater]

Actually JBoss AS and most of the other JBoss products are LGPL

Re:What it is ...

[jlrobins_uncc]

Yeah, I knew that -- duly corrected.

Still won't correct the irreconsilable licensing differences between the groups ;-)

Re:What it is ...

[Decaff]

Will end up being another postgres vs. mysql 'battle'

Not quite. J2EE is a standard (well, a set of standards). You should be able to write to a compatible subset of whatever features Geronimo and JBoss provide. If you use EJBs and message queues, these should work on both app servers.

That's an advantage of Java - it means something as a specification. Its not like databases where you can say you implement 'SQL' then provide something massively different from other systems.

Re:What it is ...

[jlrobins_uncc]

But is is just like SQL. Each EJB container vendor has their own
suite of extensions to the specs, 'cause the specs just don't let you do all that you need to do in the real world.

Differences in SQL is one of the reasons for this. EQL is a horribly constricting query language. Sure, it hides the SQL-vendor's flavoring from you, but since it gives you such a limited view of even 'standard' SQL, it has to be avoided for non-trivial queries -- either through EJB-container specifc deployment files, or even down to handcoded SQL in prepared statements at the session bean layer.

Show me a non-trivial enterprise application that sticks straight to the spec. I wish it could be done. Really. But my gut feel is that it is incomplete in parts, and way too wordy in other parts.

At least there's xdoclet.

Re:What it is ...

[Decaff]

J2EE is a far more than just EJB and EQL. There are huge amounts of compatible APIs such as JavaMail, JSP, Servlets, MX, MQ.

You are talking about minor extensions, which is totally unlike the fundamental differences between many so-called SQL databasses.

Re:What it is ...

[Coward the Anonymous]

Show me a non-trivial enterprise application that sticks straight to the spec. I wish it could be done.

Come have a look at mine. 59736 lines of code in 256 Java files. Not to mention the JSP files.

We probably have 25 EJB's. 5 being Session Beans and the rest are BMP Entity beans. Not using CMP because our schema is really complex. We have tested our app in JBoss and WebSphere. Didn't have to make any changes b/c we don't use any app server specific features and it works great.

The only thing we're tied to is ORACLE b/c of the BMP SQL code although we wrote it in such a generic way that porting to other DB's is pretty easy and can be done without having multiple code bases. We get good performance to boot!

SQL implementations and J2EE can't be compared b/c there are 3 different levels of compliance with SQL, Entry, intermediate and full. J2EE is either all or nothing.

Re:What it is ...

[liloldme]

Come have a look at mine.

Your application sounds very very trivial.

Put a real world requirement, say, our users are in the company LDAP and need to be authenticated from there.... BAM! You're squarely outside of the spec and looking at how to do this with different app server specific extensions.

Even a simple login from a standalone client (rather than web client) requires an app server specific logic.

It is not realistic to think you can build J2EE applications within the boundaries of the specification.

Re:What it is ...

[jlrobins_uncc]

The only thing we're tied to is ORACLE b/c of the BMP SQL code although we wrote it in such a generic way that porting to other DB's is pretty easy and can be done without having multiple code bases. We get good performance to boot!


That's just it though. CMP + EQL offered the hope for database-vendor independence, but fell short IMO. Just like SQL offered the hope for database-vendor independence.

Have you indeed ported to other RDBMS?

Congrats on app-server neutrality, tho. Which do you prefer?

Re:What it is ...

[jlrobins_uncc]

You're right, OC. I didn't intend to slander all of J2EE -- just offering the bitter taste in my mouth from years of CMP 2.0. The core specs for components like JavaMail, Servlets, JNDI, JDBC, etc. seem to better hit that sweet-spot of offering a complete-enough API to do vast wonderful things in that domain, while at the same time not being overtly complicated nor crufty. Well, for sure, theres cruft in there, but little need for casting down to vendor subclasses and/or vendor-specific deployment descriptors.

Perhaps the issue is that the problem CMP is trying to solve, cache-consistent O-R mapping while hiding all SQL from the app developer, is just a holy grail, or, rather, a really hard one to solve in the aforementioned sweet spot.

Gotta look into hibernate or JDO for the next application.

What about...

[Anonymous Coward]

This milestone integrates the main container components: Geronimo, MX4J, Jetty, OpenEJB and ActiveMQ.

What about XJ-11b481, CampfireLITE, OpenXV9183, fooTTYx2, HuronSmokehouse and WhizBangCodename?

Text Mirror (as of 11:33 EDT)

[Soko]

LOL JEWS

~ GNAA

Great - the Geronimo project makes a high profile announcement on Slashdot, and they didn't protect the front page against trolls.

A publicly editable Wiki is not the best place to announce a major milestone - how about a nice, static, HTML only press release? Getting trolled like this doesn't exactly say "professional" to me.

Soko

Re:Text Mirror (as of 11:33 EDT)

[pointzero]

Mod Parent up!

I agree. Also, to whoever decided to deface the page, I am sure the slashdot community agrees with me when I say that you (whoever defaced the page) are very immature by doing this.

Morons like this should be banned from the internet.

Re:Text Mirror (as of 11:33 EDT)

[diamondsw]

And that fact that this is being done by the Apache group and they couldn't publish a static web page of their own is, well, sad.

Parent is a troll

[wackysootroom]

An Obvious troll dating back to 1998

Aweful press release.

[FreeLinux]

This press release does not clearly state what Geronimo is or does. It also makes no effort to describe what MX4J, Jetty, OpenEJB and ActiveMQ are. It does however, use the word milestone six times so one would be tempted to assume that Geronimo is some form of high-tech highway mile marker.

It is especially important when releasing a new product or a product with a new name, that the press release clearly describes the product. From the press release I have no desire to click the Geronimo link to investigate further and instead chose to add another post that is likely useless. OSS projects really need to think about the dirty word "Marketing".

Unprotected Wiki Frontpage ....

[Sweetshark]

Linking a unprotected Wiki Frontpage to Slashdot - that will be fun ...
Lets see how well MoinMoin can handle this ... a good test of Python under heavy load ...

Foir those of you wondering: The frontpage is most certainly defaced, when you look at it ...

Re:Apache Problems

[BuddieFox]

Here's a pointer for you: If you are using a command prompt, you can stop trying to drag'n'drop the file, the command you are looking for is "cp"..

ohhhhh look....

[WwWonka]

...an anonymous user changeable WIKI web page!!!!

GERONIMOOOOOOOOO!"

Irony?

[FortKnox]

Now this is irony:
Please ensure authors give brief discription

Followed by:
Real programmers don't comment!

Re:Irony?

[Anonymous Coward]

Damn right:

It was hard to write to so nobody should have a clue what it does!

Parent is offtopic

[Anonymous Coward]

has nothing to do with subject of Apache Geronimo

Re:Parent is offtopic

[Anonymous Coward]

Parent also has nothing to do with subject of Apache Geronimo.

Geronimo Wiki

[FreeLinux]

I'd like to be able to tell you but, they use a Wiki for the main page the article linked to and it presently is displaying some troll about the GNAA. The open Wiki concept is not a good idea unless you are running a blog.

Re:Geronimo Wiki

[stoolpigeon]

If all you get is a gnaa troll be glad- when I went the front page was o.k. but I made the mistake of clicking on the link for the logo contest. Goatse guy and some other sick pic were waiting for me. It was full screen and took me a few seconds to close. Sick.

Re:Apache Problems

[rootofevil]

where, exactly, are these httpd daemons that pay you to run them? i need a new server farm.

Excellent news!

[sammy baby]

I know that I, for one, am excited about this "Gay Nigger Association" technology referred to in the wiki entry. We need more innovation of this type in the free software arena.

Additionally, I'd like to point out that LOL JEWS!

it looks a bit whack at this point

[phats garage]

I've been having some interest in the java world lately, being a VB slug I thought I'd look at the other side of the programming world and while java looks great, and J2EE has success, I'm not seeing the warm fuzzies I was hoping for regarding enterprise javabeans (EJB) and wonder if I should even take the plunge to learn this tech.

Good thread about this EJB stuff, apparently in reply to a very interesting critique about EJB, seems like the technology might not match the hype. Since the open source versions may still need to follow the (apparently ever moving) spec from Sun, are there even compelling reasons to study this technology?

Re:it looks a bit whack at this point

[meadowsp]

If you're going to get into the J2EE world, it's probably worth studying, even if you're not going to use it as you'll gain an understanding of the problem space, and also be better able to decide which of the alternatives to use in the future (and why).

Re:it looks a bit whack at this point

[mabinogi]

Forget about EJB.

Or rather, find out about it, and understand that you don't have to use it, and that even when you think you have to use it, you don't have to use it.
There is far more to J2EE than EJB, and most of it is all actually very useful, and easy to use.

Now I know

[stoolpigeon]

I can't click on any Wiki links from /. any more - at least at work- not that I would want to see crap like that at home either.

Nothing like getting a full screen shot of the goatse guy and something else just as disgusting.

I'm off topic since I'm talking about the links and not Geronimo- and I wont complain about being modded as such - but this is just not acceptable. Usually I let stuff like this go- what ya gonna do? But that was beyond unpleasant.

Re:Apache Problems

[Anonymous Coward]

How does one use cp to copy a file between two HTTP servers, smart ass?

Wiki hacked! Oh wait, we're back,...never mind

[eltoyoboyo]

Hee Hee, this is fun to watch. Just keep hitting the reload button on the browser and watch the Wiki page update. Forget Geronimo, this thread just became a Wiki implementation discussion.

Re:Apache Problems

[Anonymous Coward]

Well I will say this as a strong believer of using the the most appropriate tech for the job.

In general I have very good experiences with Apache, although I have not used 2.x very much. I find it to be a fairly easy to use, highly performant package.

Obviously not everyone has experiences like you otherwise no one would use it. And alot of people do.

It sounds like you've had the bad luck of dealing with some bad setups. I've worked with a foobared IIS installation and it sucked too.

I guess the moral is that any software can be misconfigured/misused.

Three versions of defaced geronimo page

[mordicus]

...are here, at least for a while.

Not anything too witty either, "sad" describes them pretty well.

Re:Three versions of defaced geronimo page

[Anonymous Coward]

What exactly is the point of mirroring that?

Re:Three versions of defaced geronimo page

[mordicus]

Not much reason at all tbh.

Re:hacked? Or /wiki'd?

[bobsled]

Could this lead to a new term - "/wiki'd"
("SlashWiki'd")

In other news...

[dj245]

Microsoft renames their Java implementation to "Bigpox", and aims to defeat the competition using the tried and true "carrot on a stick" approach.

Sun, declined to comment, stating that they were organizing a task force to investigate the properties of C2H6O and specialized server chips.

Re:In other news...

[Anonymous Coward]

Sun, declined to comment, stating that they were organizing a task force to investigate the properties of C2H6O and specialized server chips.

C2H6O : Ethyl Alcohol

Anyone know...

[DA_MAN_DA_MYTH]

... when Geronimo is going to graduate from it's incubator status? Especially since it's close to v1.0?

Thanks -- note to Dain Sundstrom

[Anonymous Coward]

Dain, in the future you may want to add a sentence or two describing what Geronimo is exactly. At the very least it's the polite thing to do, to give the reader a chance to decide whether it's a product that may interest them enough to read on. It also makes you look less arrogant in thinking Geronimo is so well-known it doesn't require any explanation. I'm not saying you are arrogant, it just may look that way to some people.

Parent is flamebait

[Anonymous Coward]

is trying to piss off the grandparent, baiting him to flames.

why Jetty???

[jonathanduty]

I think its awesome they are doing this within Apache. But just curious, why are they using Jetty rather than Tomcat? Figured they would use as much Jakarta stuff as possible.

Re:why Jetty???

[Anonymous Coward]

if you search the geronimo-dev and tomcat-dev mailing list, you'll understand why. Quite a few of the committers in geronimo are from core-developers. Remember the group that left JBoss? Yeah, the same guys.

One of the developers (I won't name the individual) on geronimo claimed Tomcat wasn't modular enough. Kinda funny since JBoss embeds tomcat just fine. Geronimo holds promise. Only time will tell.

Re:why Jetty???

[sircrown]

My guess is because Tomcat is the official Servlet/JSP reference implementation while Jetty is a "real" impelementation, though that doesn't stop people from using Tomcat in production anyway.

Re:why Jetty???

[sircrown]

I just saw over on TSS that they are planning to support Tomcat alongside Jetty in the future.

Ohh, they grew a brain cell!

[mtnharo]

The Trolls are getting clever...ish. Now they are just editing the links on the Wiki page to include http://lm.pleaseat.us or something similar. Makes it a tad bit more difficult to notice at first glance.

So does this mean they are learning? Or are the Trolls evolving?

And so...

[mordicus]

...they're gone.

Re:hacked? Or /wiki'd?

[Anonymous Coward]

No. Stop trying to coin phrases.

Parent is touching my junk

[Anonymous Coward]

liberally!

Re:Apache Problems

[Donny Smith]

> How does one use cp to copy a file between two HTTP servers, smart ass?

By adding an "s" just before "cp"

Ominous Release Notes

[MHV]

New Feature: [GERONIMO-164] - Basic WAR deployment

If I were you I'd go get the cavalry pretty soon.

Bad choice of name

[Anonymous Coward]

Where I come from, Geronimo is an antiquated word used mainly as the name of an early brand of condom, like from the 1940s. The main difference between the Geronimo and later models? The Geronimo was intended to be reusable. Seriously. Look it up if you don't believe me :-)

Indian Name v JBoss

[Capt_Troy]

I'd like to see a technical comparison. I know it's a bit early, but is there anything out there yet?

Mutually exclusive?

[_marshall]

I find it especially odd that JBoss (the defacto app open source app server) bundles Tomcat -- the Apache Software Foundation's reference implementation of a web container, and Geronimo bundles a 3rd party web container instead of Apache's own Tomcat.

I know that JBoss actually employs the main developer of Tomcat, but it is quite weird that a supposed ASF unified application server does not include their own tried and tested web container.

What's even more interesting is that JBoss used to bundle Jetty ... I wonder if there something political going on behind the scenes here.

Re:Mutually exclusive?

[mikech@rbsgi]

Actually, I believe that JBoss defaults to Jetty and bundles Tomcat. Jetty is easier to embed in to an application than Tomcat.

Re:Mutually exclusive?

[_marshall]

As far as I know (i heard this in JBoss training, and can verify it with the current build we are using -- 3.2.3) Tomcat is bundled and is the default web container from here on out.

The new JBoss 4.0 (which is still in beta) is coming bundled w/ Tomcat 5

Re:Mutually exclusive?

[liloldme]

The next 3.2.4 will also have Tomcat 5 bundled (and looks to be WAY faster than Jetty in my tests).

A note to story posters

[Pedrito]

If you're going to post a story about a project like this, something not as well known as say, Mozilla, or Apache, or Linux, it might help increase interest (or maybe decrease it, depending), if people would actually mention what these things are. I have no idea what Geronimo is. Yes, I could click on the story, but 99% of the time, I skip them when they don't say and I don't know.

I find this very annoying because it's as if people expect all of us to know what all these projects are. You may actually generate some additional interest by people that might otherwise pass it by if you say, "Geronimo is the open source answer to shaving nostril hair" or whatever it is. At least we'll have some clue.

Good news!

[Anonymous Coward]

A competitor to Jboss. Should be interesting.

Re:I am boycotting Apache Geronimo

[Anonymous Coward]

Um... then shouldn't you boycott the whole APACHE group, as well?

The Microsoft approach?

[Xipe66]

Can it be?

We advise that this is simply a milestone release and is not for general use, nor is it any indication of a final release. Our goal with this release is to start out slowly with a base set of functionality and gather some initial feedback that we can incorporate into future milestones.

Release early. Release often.

- Which not only is the Microsoft motto, it's also a very good motto that I wished more OS projects would use. Then maybe, just maybe, we would start seeing software written for users, and not as it is today, software written for the fun of writing something no matter how inconsistent and crappy (see: basically every OS project in existence except maybe the Linux kernel, Mozilla and OpenOffice).

Re:The Microsoft approach?

[Anonymous Coward]

Then maybe, just maybe, we would start seeing software written for users, and not as it is today, software written for the fun of writing something no matter how inconsistent and crappy

Doesn't this process make release time bound instead of quality bound? PHB wants something delivered by Foobar date resulting in dev putting something thats half-baked out in the market and then start patching it. IMO, why FOSS rocks in some areas is that release happens only when the 'chief dev' feels the product is ready and not because it has to be done by this date. Imagine if Linus released a kernel because he said it'll be available instead releasing it when he feels it's good enough to be released...

Re:Awful press release.

[brassman]

It gets worse. I went to the site. It's no better than the press release.

I guess if you need this, you already know it.

("Middleware." Oh. Okay. That, I grok. I don't need it.)

Ooooooooooh well.

[rice_burners_suck]

This is what I love about Slashdolt. They'll post a story a hundred thousand million billion trillion quadrillion ... googleplex long story on the front page about a product called J(Rweuf or JI@#K or RJ(@J#J or something, and talk about how wonderful it is, but NOWHERE is there any mention of what the thing doez. It reminds me of the mindless advertisements placed in business magazines: "By leveraging innovative technologies, content providers streamline compelling enterprise solutions." Does that say anything? No. It's pure duckspeak. If they sell computers, they'll put a picture of an island in their ad and tell you to streamline enterprise results or something... What a crock of shit.

Congratulations

[R. M. Stallman]

On behalf of the Free Software Foundation I congratulate the Apache team on their achievements.

However, I must raise a matter that I have written on before; Apache would be better served by the GNU GPL. Apache accepts the ideals of the free software movement, yet doesn't go as far as to protect them for future generations as would be the case with the GPL. By releasing apache under the current licensing terms any company may take the source code of apache and build a proprietary product, without contributing back to the community. Is this the future we want? No, if free software projects are to be sustainable the source code must remain free. To do otherwise is wholly wrong, and undermines free software as much as it helps it.

Please please please

[n1k0]

...describe what your software DOES when you announce releases on Slashdot! Why do so many people overlook this? -Nick

Sounds like same ol'

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, well. Apache to reinvent the wheel ? JBoss has been around for quite some time. OK, it's commercial open-source, so Apache comes up with this new project Geronimo. But the thing is, Jonas(from Objectweb) has also been around for years. It's up and running and being certified. So why does Apache reinvent the wheel ? Why not just join the team ? What the fuck do they want to prove ?

Re:Sounds like same ol'

[Anonymous Coward]

What the fuck do they want to prove ?

Their religion.

Apache is fighting a losing battle on this one. The market is saturated and there's nothing they're doing that differentiates them from others. So their excuse is some nuance in different open source licenses. What a total and utter waste of time. No one will care. 99.9% of people want to just run their apps on a server. They don't care about the server itself or the license it uses.

Re:Ok great - J2EE container

[Anonymous Coward]

If you dunno what an open source J2EE container is, give a look to Jonas. That's what an open source J2EE container is.

Re:Can it compete with JBoss - JONAS rocks

[Anonymous Coward]

JBoss is pissing off all people who like open-source because it prevents vendor lock-in and cuts costs down. JBoss is commercial open-source: get the source, but pay for eveything, then get fucked if you like to change for other J2EE. Actually, JONAS is another open-source J2EE appserv that's been around for years along with doc and all, not smart Microsoft wannabee behind. Less money in hype, more in tech. ASF guys, no need to develop yet-another-J2EE-open-source-blah-blah. It's there: http://jonas.objectweb.org. Enjoy !

Re:Can it compete with JBoss - JONAS rocks

[Anonymous Coward]

Open Source gets laughed out off any serious corporation if you have nothing to show for in terms of support with response times, training, consulting etc services. Linux wouldn't be able to get anywhere if there weren't commercial companies behind it doing just that.

That's why JBoss is doing so well I think. They put together a package that provides all of this. Business with money wants this. If you don't have it, they find someone else to buy it from.

Abuse? No.

[Anonymous Coward]

Abuse?

That's like giving a child a coloring book and a box of crayons and then yelling at him for drawing a picture.

If you don't want public modifications, don't pretend to allow them.