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Swedish Pirate Demo
Arioch of Chaos writes "In Sweden, May 1 is still a day when many people get out on the streets to take part in the traditional demonstrations. Today, the Swedish site Piratbyrån organised demonstrations in several Swedish towns, demanding more bandwith and the abolition of intellectual property laws. This picture is just great. More pictures here." Congratulations to whoever made the AYBABTU sign.
Arrrr.
I can see how people are justified in demanding human rights like clean water or civil rights like free speech. But is bandwidth really something that humans need to the degree that it should be a "right"? And if so, who's going to pay for it all?
If everyone was a pirate, what would they steal?
Obviously http://www.piratbyran.org/ needs more bandwidth...
These shipless, beardless landlubbing wenches call themselves pirates!?
The rise in the landlubber:pirate ratio is very bad, Arr.
Am I the only one who thinks that "Swedish Pirate Demonstration" would have been a better article title?
/. type community).
My imagination cooked up some confusing stuff in the short times before my eyes made their way down to the description. A game where you are a Swedish pirate raiding Danish ships? A new P2P program written by a Swede? Maybe something involving a Swedish demolition guy?
Anyway, that's pretty neat that there were organized demonstrations. Hopefully it'll get some press (outside of the
They would probabley just steal from eachother. I could see an entire pirate economy coming out of it: black market becoming the predominant [stock]market, thereby calling out the need for a fusia or peach pink market. *sigh* Silly pirates, don't they realize what they're doing?
"It is better to keep your mouth closed and have people think you a fool than to open it and prove them right." M. Twain
...nobody at this demo is over the age of 16.
I still fail to see why people want the abolition of IP laws. If you don't want to pay for the music/game/movie, then don't copy it either. The reason for the charge is to pay peoples wages, buy equipment, etc.
Otherwise they wouldn't be able to make whatever it was.
Arrr mateys! Three swigs ah rum to anyone who can find out who slashdotted our ship! Yarr!!
It's unfortunate that piratbyrån get's this kind of publicity, but I'll try to fill you in.
Piratbyrån (roughly translated to "The bureau of piracy") was formed as a childish response to the lawyerfilled "Antipiratbyrån" (I think you can take a guess at the translation).
The "members" are mostly 14 year old kids, who just discovered that "heeey! i can use kazaa to download pr0n! wow!", and shortly after discovered "what do you mean it's illegal? I'll pirate anyway, motherbitches!" and is as of thus filled with these crying fools. Noone with half a brain takes them seriously, and I hope none of you do either.
I'm not, repeat not, som kind of guardian of antipiratbyrån, but piratbyrån uses just the kind of methods that makes antipiratbyrån look like the good guys. Unfortunate indeed.
Too bad it's not Iceland. Then we could say "Slashdottir".
They think piracy is a right. They at the very least wish to get rid of copyrights so they can perform software piracy without a fear of getting caught. They encourage people to swap copyrighted works burnt on CD's on the demonstration, etc. "Piratbyrån" also means "The Piracy Bureau" in english. Miles from what the EFF stand for, for example.
I think there's a line between fighting for freedom (software patents and so on), and fighting for piracy, and these guys crossed it.
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
Yarrr ... Share me some MP3's on yon fat pipe matey .... Yarrr
... and ain't no p2p in those days either.
And not a peg leg amongst the lot of 'em. These swabbies aren't much for piratin, but I ain't never met me a pirate worth his salt hailing from Sweden.
Back when I was earnin me sea-legs we'd be out a rapin' and a pillagin' and a downloading our warez over 28baud
Yarrr, more rapin and a pillagin and a downloadin' and less parades say me.
and Paris Hilton video.
"It is better to keep your mouth closed and have people think you a fool than to open it and prove them right." M. Twain
... because in 1889, The Second International organized in Paris and set May 1 as a day of international labor solidarity, to support US trade unionists. European socialists like Engels decided it was important to publicise the plight of poor working conditions in the USA.
Yes the letter Å is in general pronounced like a in all, but since it was introduced by some stupid king or whatever from the southern half of Sweden to the end of names like Ume, Skellefte, Pite and Lule, nobody actually living in those cities pronounces the final addendum. This is offtopic, hooray! But on the other hand - Ume (with that silly, non-needed and by natives non-pronounced letter) is mentioned in the article, and umu.se is the University of Umeå :-)
Geek rants since like... 2000 or something.
C'mon, how much meaner can we GET?? We post a site that's (1) about pirates, which are inherently cool, (2) got a picture of a real-life AYBABTU sign (both of these make it a primary Slashdotting candidate) (3) is ALREADY involved in protesting because they need more bandwidth-- and we post this on our front page.
It's like inviting the WHOLE frikkin' horde of Viking^H^H^H^H^H^HSlashdot barbarians to bang on their gates. In the words of a certain GalaxyQuest character: "Those poor people..."
</humor>
'If you're flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit.'
In so many countries there are people who cant access certain content (especially political) even if they are willing to pay for it and yet these idiots think that they have some god given right to streaming porn and warez, come on!
Damn, I left my good sig in my other pants
Maybe someone can explain this to me, cause I just have no clue....
How much does bandwidth itself cost? I mean, once you lay the line, aren't your costs pretty much fixed, regardless of how much bandwidth you use?
On a pipe, you pay for:
Router, or other form of access --> one time cost
The line itself --> one time cost
Person/people to maintain it --> ongoing fixed cost
Internal switches --> one time cost
Servers --> one time cost, till they go down. Going down is going to happen regardless of bandwidth useage though.
Regular maintenance --> ongoing fixed cost. A fiber line is a fiber line. Granted, the better the equipment, the more it will cost, but still.
What am I missing? How is using more bandwidth more expensive? How are the ongoing monthly charges different for a T1 versus a T3? What costs are different? Aside from the "You want it more, so we're going to charge more" attitude ISP's take.
I'm only posting this as an AC b/c I'm sure I'll get flamed for being an idiot.
Well I'm a Dane (and therefore I'm obligated to hate the Swedes :)) and I'd say that in Sweeden the are much better off than us Danes. Bandwidth in Denmark costs about 400DKK ~ $60 a month for a 2048/256 ADSL line, where in Sweden the get 10/10 Mbit line capacity for 1/4 of the Danish 2 Mbit ADSL. 100 Mbit bandwidth is also quite common over there for end-users
BTW, if anybody has tried Direct Connect P2P program they'll quickly find out that the 7151.97 TB online are almost hosted alone by Swedes...
Comment removed based on user account deletion
http://tinyurl.com/2sqaj
:>
fetched, (yaaa)rarred, served. enjoy
jackal
My impression is that everyone living in one of the major cities in Sweden can have 10Mbit for just a few SEK montly...
...yeah I'm just another jealous norwegian :-P
It's not coincidence that 50%+ of all DC servers are(atleast was) located in Sweden...
Intellectual property laws existence is a violation of natural economic law itself. This law declares that when supply is infinitely greater than demand, and marginal cost per item is near-zero, the cost per item should be driven to near-zero as well.
Sound familiar?
There is a serious issue with IP law in the digital age; it's designed to prevent and deal with a whole different class of issues, ones that barely seem relevant when I can copy the entire Library of Congress's contents in a day or two. IP law is an attempt to impose an artificial scarcity on a commodity that not only doesn't need to be scarce, but by its very nature is easier to assume common.
Do you want *proof* that IP laws are quite probably unnecessary?
Look at Linux. Who would ever write a huge undertaking like an operating system only to give it away for free; to more or less mandate that it must be given away for no more than the cost of distribution? Apparently, lots of people. I know, from several years of working in the radio and music industries, more than a few musicians who could give a shit about their music being copied; as long as people are listening to it, they're happy.
As bandwidth becomes larger and cheaper, storage becomes larger and cheaper, etc, etc, we have to find a *better* way to encourage creation *and* consumption. Eventually, we'll have to do it for real objects, if we ever figure out how to do assemblers. But we need to acknowledge that our IP laws are broken in the modern era, and rather than trying to nudge and tweak and suspender up their sagging morass, we need to figure out a sensible approach.
Who cares about what worked for printing presses? Let's figure out what works for GB/s pipes and TB of disk.
---
Mod me down, you fucking twits. Go ahead. I dare you.
(I read with sigs off.)
Hi their, just in case things go sidewise as it were I have put up a mirror.. org/ 0 .jpg is at http://mirrorit.demonmoo.com/r_154/www.piratbyran. org/1majbilder/umea/DSCF0020.jpg . org/1majbilder/ 2 3.JPG is at http://mirrorit.demonmoo.com/r_154/www.piratbyran. org/1majbilder/sthlm/DSCF0023.JPG x .html is at http://mirrorit.demonmoo.com/r_154/www4.tomshardwa re.com/column/20040430/index.html s &file=article&sid=239 is at http://mirrorit.demonmoo.com/r_154/www.dailywirele ss.com/modules.php%3fname=News&%3bfile=article& amp%3bsid=239 l ess.net/ e t/ s /warfly.avi is at http://mirrorit.demonmoo.com/r_154/www.tomshardwar e.com/column/20040430/images/warfly.avi
The mirror of http://www.piratbyran.org/ is at http://mirrorit.demonmoo.com/r_154/www.piratbyran
The mirror of http://www.piratbyran.org/1majbilder/umea/DSCF002
The mirror of http://www.piratbyran.org/1majbilder/ is at http://mirrorit.demonmoo.com/r_154/www.piratbyran
The mirror of http://www.piratbyran.org/1majbilder/sthlm/DSCF00
The mirror of http://www4.tomshardware.com/column/20040430/inde
The mirror of http://www.dailywireless.com/modules.php?name=New
The mirror of http://www.kismetwireless.net/ is at http://mirrorit.demonmoo.com/r_154/www.kismetwire
The mirror of http://www.stumbler.net/ is at http://mirrorit.demonmoo.com/r_154/www.stumbler.n
The mirror of http://www.tomshardware.com/column/20040430/image
They called themselves Vikings, predated, and were a lot better at it than pirates.
Aaah, it's good the young ones keep up the traditions. 1st of May is even today the day to drink copious amounts of mead.
All rites reversed 2010
Can you actually attempt to demand abolishment of IP rights. Im not sure wether to be horrified or to commend them. Well how about I commned them for there attempt but would be horrified if they succeed.
If you try this in the US, you would have RI/MP AA hitman after you. Im sorry i mean FBI agents working under a hidden clasue of the DMCA that prevents any attempt to undermine copyright.
Satire aside, if they do succeed, they will probably manage to create an IP anarchy. Content providers outside of Sweden would do what they could to prevent content from going into sweden. THose content providers in sweden that dont support this anarchist dream, would probably leave. So what you get in the end, is a place where content is free to all, but there is no content being created. Well except for a few anarchists.
That said, i dont support a place with no ip laws. But i also dont support the path the US has been taking recetnly. IP holders posses alot more power than IP consumers. We need to find a point of balance. IP holders need to allow market forces to shape the the market. Not make thier consumers criminals.
We really need to do a 180 as far as ip law is concerned. Copyright law needs to be reaxamed and balanced in favor of both interests. I suppose this is not going to happen when most people dont know the diffrence. We can vote with our dollars, but most of the dollars are still going the wrong way out of ignorance.
Done ranting... or whatever...
In America we are imprisoned by our fear of them.
Well if you want to impress a Swede, pronounce it as Ångstöm. Here is a link with some info on the Ångstöms.
John Carmack fan, browsing at +5 since 1999.
Linux is a bad example...the GPL exists and works BECAUSE of IP Law, the license gets it's strength from the fact that the only leagal way to copy or derive from a GPL'd work is by accepting the license.
If it were not for copyright law, you could just ignore the license and take the code anyway.
Now for the musician point of view, whilst those musician friends of yours might be happy having people listen to their music, whether they payed for it or not, how would they feel if the next mass produced plastic pop star made some record company millions by singing one of their songs without permission, accreditation or compensation?
IP and copyright are about more than some 15 year old kid downloading songs with Kazaa.
I can accept that there are problems with some aspects of current law (duration being the bigest one), but the original intent of the laws are sound. If an artist or coder wants to give away their work they can. Those that don't want to, shouldn't have to.
Advanced users are users too!
Congratulations to whoever made the AYBABTU sign.
Anyone else noticed, that at first the article linked to a picture which wasn't very good. But a short while after the article came on slashdot they swapped around two of the pictures on the server, such that now the link point to a better picture of their sign. DSCF0023.JPG DSCF0033.JPG
Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
This is Sweden here we are talking about, not the United States. Now I know you may find it hard to believe, but there are other kinds of free governments than the one we enjoy here. We are a fairly private sector, pay-for-it-yourself kind of country. That's fine, but Sweden is NOT. They are far more socialist than the US. This means that they pay a LOT more taxes. Like around 65% income tax in the top brackets, not to mention other taxes.
Well, the flipside of the higher taxes is they expect more services. A free government is supposed to be one that serves its people. The reason that they take money from the people is to give them services that they all need and want such as transportation, public safety, health care and so on.
So, if people pay taxes to the government with the understanding they will be used to build broadband infastructure, it is not unreasonable to demand that they actually recieve the broadband as a result.
Just because we here in the US think that broadband ought to be in the hands of private (well, sort of private) corperations does not mean that the rest of the free world shares those views. What's more, if the US government levied a tax to provide unviersal boradband availability, as they levy a tax to provide universal phone availability, I would expect to recieve broadband as a result, as I expect to recieve phone service.
And one that some OSS people take rather seriously. It can be summarized as such:
Information is not a physical good, and shouldn't be treated as such. It costs virtually nothing to make a copy and spread information, and all of that cost is incured by the copier. Thus there should be no ownership of information, it should be free to all to promote progress and free thinking.
Now, I'm not saying there aren't problems with this point of view, but there certianly seem to be problems with the current views on intellectual property. This is a legit stance and one that can certianly be taken seriously. I don't think it's the right answer, but that doesn't mean I'm going to dismiss it as not serious.
Dagens Nyheter, morning paper
Svenska Dagbladet, morning paper
Aftonbladet, tabloid
Computter Sweden (paying subscribers only)
Yelah
Gnuheter, /. clone
Also - think outside the box - what about a law that's allows copying but mandates source availability? Sort of a "consumer's right" IP law. (I'm not necessarily advocating that, but I want people to see that there are multiple solutions here, and that the GPL does not depend on copying restrictions.)
Oh, so you're saying that without IP laws, musicians and record companies can still make millions? If that were true, some would considere that great news.
A lot of posters here say "How can they demand the abolishment of IP laws? They must exist!"
Well. Piratbyrån (the bureau of piracy organization) has the opinion that the current IP-Laws does not help and/or protect content creators / artists, they protect the publishers, record companies and stifle innovation. Many artists only want to spread their music and play concerts (where many small artists make most of their money anyway).
An example of todays bad IP-laws; After the artists death the copyright is still valid up to 70(?) years after. That is not protecting the rights of the artist, that is protecting the rights of the owner of the copyrights. - and those are separate issues.
Piratbyrån is of the opinion that the laws of today is formed by and for the major owners of copyrights - such as publishers and record companies, and therefor they want to abolish these laws.
Please note that I am not a member of piratbyrån, if there are someone from piratbyrån here; please explain it a little further.
Their banner seems so out-of-date. I guess it must be paying homage to the first inexpensive, mass-marketed electronic/electro-mechanical device that moved information duplication capabilities into the hands of the un-incorporated populous.
Actually, everyone that doesn't speak Swedish should know that "Piratbyrån" is a phun of "Antipiratbyrån" and I guess everyone knows the word anti.
(piratbyrån = piracy agency)
Your unlawful copying of our images will not go unpunished! You will hear from our lawyers!
/Piratbyrån
SIG: TAKE OFF EVERY 'CAPTAIN'!!
First, you are not free if you're forced to pay for someone else's high-speed porn link. Freedom is being able to say "no thanks". If the response is "tough luck" then you are not free.
Don't confuse democracy with freedom. They aren't the same unless you mean the majority is free to do whatever it wants to the minority.
Second, if there was enough money available by those that would use such a system, then a private company would step in to provide the service. If there is no such company, then obviously there isn't enough money available by those that would use such a system to fund such a system. Whether the government or company, someone has to get paid to do the work. People don't run fiber for free.
So, where will the extra money come from? It has to come from Tax payers that didn't want the system in the first place. QED they're getting used but you don't care because you're getting your broadband.
Sure, they will get it, too. But their use will be small in proportion to how much they pay. Again, if they thought it was worth it in the first place, there'd be no reason to tax them. They would have paid willingly.
It depends if it is a long or a short "Å" sound. In Swedish the letter "Å" itself is actually pronounced with a long vowel sound in American English, like the "aw" in awesome (or "ou"ght in British English). The short sound (when used in words is pronounced like 'o' in "ogg").
Anyway, as a Brit living in Sweden I think Swedes demonstrating over a lack of bandwidth is a bit like Saudis protesting over a lack of sand. Get outta it! Most people in the cities have access to 10/100Mbit connections and DSL out of the cities. Note they are after 600Mbit!. No sympathy at all. Spoilt kiddies who don't know they are born syndrome.
Ho hum.
The Vikings were not pirates, they were traders. They just had their own methods of breaking down trade barriers and confronting protectionism.
In a sense, the Vikings were the original free trade lobbyists.
At least as it applies to nations. Freedom, or at least a free society does NOT mean the ability to do whatever you want. That is called Anarchy, and has never worked for a society. A free society is one where the people control the government in an indrect way. That doesn't mean that they are free to do whatever, just that they are free to change the way their government works.
This isn't up for debate, this is what a free country means. You may feel that isn't enough freedom, but that doesn't change how the word is used. In your point of view, there would be NO free countries since they all tell you what you can and can't do, and levy some taxes. Under what seems to be your view, the only real freedom is Anarchy (the absence of government).
...is that I recognized what AYBABTU was an acronym for, before I saw it. I got to read less Slashdot...
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
What do governments do? They provide infrastructure. That's one of the reasons they collect taxes. The swedish government collects more taxes, so people expext to get more and better infrastructure. I don't know about you, but I would consider backbones infrastructure... It's something done not for direct profit, but for the convenience of the people.
Other countries work differently, and it might do you well to travel a little outside the US...
Actually, Anarchy is not "the absence of government." It is the absence of the need for a government.
Your Anonymous statements require proof.
"your invention is unprotected and copied and you make no money, the consequence is simple: no one invents any more."
I doubt that, needs would still exist and there would still be money to be made by filling those needs.
What would change is that 'invention' would become a different proposition going from get rich quick, and retire, to invent more often to produce an income.
Current IP law is becoming too cumbersome with innovation being killed by trivial patents that are interfering with development.
Many inventions are stillborn because of the threat of licensing of the obvious and that products are forced to produce enough income to cover the huge IP tax that licensing creates.
Abolishing IP laws might not be a good idea, but it might be a better idea than suffocation by IP extreme.
OK, first of all, let up NOT confuse true Marxist communism with any of what is going on in the world today - China et. al. are as faithful to real Marxism as StarShip Troopers the movie was to the book.
/. would let me put an HR here)
The fundamental limiting factor to Marxism is the idea the "the workers own the means of production", which fails miserably in an Industrial Age society, and implodes in an Information Age society.
Consider a chip fab plant - they cost BILLIONS of dollars to build. Now, how many people work at a chip fab? Even if 10,000 people worked at a fab, that would mean that each worker's portion of the plan would come to about 100,000 dollars. Compare that to a furnature factory - which set of workers has to be worth more?
And that is the key problem - some workers need to be worth more than other workers - anathema to the Marxist. And since things like chip plants, auto (or tractor) factories and suchlike cannot be funded by the workers, *something* must come in to fund them. So you either have a) rich people (again, anathema to Marxists) or b) "The State" come in to create the plants. But if "The State" owns the plant, the workers don't own it, and "The State" is not going to give it up.
That was what prevented the Communist nations from being able to scale - Marxism didn't work, they went to "The State", and inefficency prevented them from getting anywhere.
(-- boy I wish
That said, I agree with the parent - and this bunch of wastes of flesh are posterchildren for the free rider problem. And even if we assume the cost of copying software is 0, even if we assume that all electronic content should be Free (in the RMS sense), there is still the little problem that you simply cannot say "router = new Cisco; fiber = new Fiber;" - these are physical things that somebody had to expend resouces to create.
www.eFax.com are spammers
The fat corporations represented by the MPAA and RIAA have been fleecing the public for years. They are the real criminals.
Now, as the people are becoming empowered by technology, those same corporations are fighting a propaganda war in a desperate attempt to derail a future in which they have no place. Let us celebrate their imminent demise!
Check out Downhill Battle. They have the same sort of skull and crossbones logo.
Test 1 2 3 4
I swear.. mass demonstrations by hacker groups? What was it yesterday? Large amounts of zombie machines available for rent by organized crime? Sheesh.. i want my assassin chicks with razor fingers now.
---------
No matter how thin you slice it, its still baloney.
Anyone else notice that in every picture the streets are empty? Not a single person outside other than the protestors. Nobody even knew they were protesting...
No, they were hungover. Walpurgis Night (April 30) is an age old drinking fest in Sweden.
this "don't steal" deal has a counter to it, it DOESN'T work just one way, and here's the serious flaw in predatory "profits at any cost" style capitalism like we have now being promoted as "God's way" when it *clearly isn't*.
Leviticus chapter 19, verses 35 and 36
Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment, in mete-yard, in weight, or in measure.
Just balances, just weights, a just ephah, and a just bin, shall ye have: I am the Lord your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt.
In other words, don't steal from your potential customers EITHER by lying and charging obscene profits over your costs.
Neither side in the great download and movie debate has a moral leg to stand on there,and the "industry" did it first, in spades, been convicted of it even by our skewed secular laws that already favored them, nothing happened to them of note, and they continued to use "unjust weights and measures" (and bearing false witness) in bribing off the political process to legitimize their unjust thefts. But, stealing what's already stolen is not righteous either, IMO.
And when it comes to other sorts of intellectual property, people who insist on it being "theirs"(closed source propietary software for instance) are shooting themselves in the foot, when we ALL share, thee and thou and me and you, we ALL get to benefit from what the other guy produces. We actually all get richer from it. That's the big picture that the mega profiteers don't seem to grasp yet, they think by keeping information secret and restricted that somehow they'll get "more" when all that happens is the other guy does that to THEM and the only people getting a lot of something for doing practically nothing are the middlemen in that deal, people who produce *nothing* worth sharing. So, to avoid work, to avoid toiling to produce, they just pass laws that insist they get paid somehow off the backs of others, if you follow the economic food chains around.
No, really, he was. If he showed up today and started preaching his "give up all and follow me" schtick, he'd be condemned everywhere from the pages of the Wall Street Journal to fundamentalist pulpits across the land.
He probably wouldn't care about intellectual property and the RIAA and DMCA and MPAA, but he'd definitely condemn the hard-working, industrious Western world. You notice how he describes a man who "stores up things for himself"? He's describing a capitalist there, an entrepreneur - and condemning him.
No offence to anyone who believes he's the Son of God, but Jesus was a dirty hippy.