Slashdot Mirror
Building A Modern Stonehenge In New Zealand
Flexagon writes "Wired News is reporting that a group of astronomy enthusiasts in New Zealand is building its own version of Stonehenge in a little more than a year. Why? "We came up with the idea of Stonehenge because it doesn't matter who you are -- everyone looks at the Pyramids and Stonehenge and structures like that (and asks) who built them, why did they build them?" says Richard Hall, president of the Phoenix Astronomical Society. Yet another reason to book a ticket!"
I remember watching on TV how they recreated a single piece of stonehenge using 'original' techniques. At the time I thought it would be a better idea to recreate the whole thing with modern techniques, and so here we are...
I'm not very much into 'scientific' promotion that aim to interest people in the past. Let's talk about how we can change things, make things better. Let's talk about the science in invention and innovation! Let's work on tchnologies that make the future better!
______ my homepage
Who's country precisely did you mean? I am not really sure that the modern Britism Isles can claim stonehenge as their 'heritage' when it was built thousands of years ago by a very different people
But it is my heritage. The day that you can take away my memories of visiting the place on summer solstice, just sitting in a nearby layby each month and staring for hours, the stories my older relatives told me - is the day you can say bullshit like that again. I don't remember claiming to be a direct descendant of druids/astrologers/whoever (I'm not prepared to make any claims as to who originally built the place when it's shrouded in such ambiguity).
My real point is that New Zealand really does itself a dis-service by practically ignoring its own virtues. It's a great place.
The next thing you know they will be stealing your Arthurian mythology.
Are you suggesting that I'm not a knight of the round table?
At least your still have your cuisine...
At least you still have your wildly outdated xenophobic, ill-informed views that we all eat boiled pig anus at each and every meal.
It should also be noted that north of the Stonehenge memorial in the town of Goldendale, WA, USA is the Goldendale Observatory Interpretive Center. It has a publicly accessable 24.5 inch telescope which according to the Tri-cityherald is America's largest publicly accessable telescope, assuming the WA state parks department didn't close it down due to budget cuts.
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
At least you still have your wildly outdated xenophobic, ill-informed views that we all eat boiled pig anus at each and every meal.
Well I didn't before, but I might now; however I was referring to stereotype of bland British food rather than the...colorful...'traditional' meals of the Isles.
Regardless, it is good that you have many fond memories of Stonehenge, and likely other ancient structures and formations, but I do not see a cause to claim that this project is unfarily feeding on the fame of the original structures.
The scientist is not saying "look, we had druids here too, come to New Zealand instead of England if your want to see Stonehend; ours is better, nyaa!"; such a claim would be pure nonsense.
Rather, he is striving to spread knowledge and understanding, a noble goal under any circumstances.
Whilst most assume that Stonehenge was used to establish the position of the stars, there is another explanation.
The stars may have been used to accurately establish the orientation of Stonehenge.
In otherwords, the builders cared not one whit where the stars were, but they cared greatly as to the position and alignment of stonehenge.
They knew that astronomical observation and unique annual events could achieve this objective.
So the real question is "Why would it be important to precisely position and orient Stonehenge?"
It would be important if there was more than one Earth, e.g. in a parallel universe.
How else could builders on both planets construct something in precisely the same place and orientation?
What would be the benefit to having two Stonehenges in identical positions and alignments?
A gate. Morphic resonance. Weave your way through one henge and pop out at the other.
Dangerous stuff.
And if you decide you don't like the gate, or the folk who come through it? Knock it down until it stops working.
Well, there was Tolkein's history of NZ, recently made into a trilogy of films...
Seriously, however, yes, NZ has heritage of its own: there are Pas (Maori forts), early colonial Pakeha buildings, etc. And given the historic links between Pakeha (European) New Zealand and Britain, I'm surprised you'd feel that NZ was disrespecting Britain.
This is where the serious fun begins.
We have wonderful ingredients and some great recipes - if you look into historic foods theres lots of flavourings added. You could say things started to go downhill after Raleigh brought back the potato, but I woudln't agree.
The national dish these days seems to be curry anyway, it may not be historical (more than a hundred years anyway) but it isn't bland :-)
It's about as true as the stereotype of American Cuisine - that there isn't one! the US has lots of regional cuisines AIUI, but I'm mostly familiar with Cajun and Tex-Mex. But I do know that there's more. The US did give the world the burger chain though, so there's some excuse for believing that Americans are more concerned with quantity than quality. I'm sure it's not true for all though :-)
So is it your opinion then that white, British descended, Kiwis have the history of the Maori as their heritage?
Since there are a few surviving Maori left there might be some discussion on the matter, and perhaps some hard feelings over it too.
I really don't see the modern, white Kiwis gathering in the town square for a massive fucking for fertility session (a practice that, personally, I think makes a lot more sense than killing someone for fertility) as part of his "heritage." If the Maori tried it today I rather suspect their heritage would see them all in jail. There's a conflict of heritage here.
As a white, British descended North American I can understand that if I started claiming heritage rights to a Mohawk burial ground/sacred site some modern Mohawk might well think I was rather out of line, seeing as not a single one of my antecedents had anything to do with it.
On the other hand, I rather doubt that any of the Native Americans would particularly object to my building a Stonehenge (although I'm more inclined to a Nerfhenge myself) replica here because they would perceive it as part of my British heritage. If you objected you'd be being an asshole, because my ancestors lay there under the stars and listened to tales of the elders and have at least as much claim to it as yours.
Whereas if I wanted to celebrate the life and traditions of my North American ancestors I could, well, move into a tenement building in Harlem and then go to a moving picture. I think I'll pass. It lacks something as an ancestral ritual.
For the majority of New Zealanders Stonehenge is their heritage and their purely New Zealand heritage goes back no farther than the mid 1800s.
What would you have them do, kill a native, build a clerk's office and a railroad to celebrate their heritage?
Should the Maori celebrate the Crusade of Richard I as part of their heritage, or The Tower? That would seem to be exactly the sort of thing you're objecting to. The road goes both ways.
Yes, New Zealand is an awesome place. Yes, it has a rich cultural heritage, but that cultural heritage is not shared by its populace until completely modern times.
KFG
Given that claims have been made in recent years that stonehenge itself was almost completely rebuilt in the 20th century (based on evidence like constables paintings and contemporary photos), I don't understand why anyone would get their backup about a reproduction being made. (Granted there were many counter claims) [Personally I'd be interested in seeing even the techniques used even in 1902 reemployed in NZ]
And why should religion be singled out to be mentioned in the Constitution? Arguably, we should then also put in Communism, National Socialism, etc., as w/o those there wouldn't be an EU - after all, the EC was founded after WW2 so that we wouldn't be fighting our neighbors anymore.
So I say, fuck that, let it be a laicistic document to guide the EU and its citizens, and not something to divide us even more along religious lines.
Yes.
There are several of these in the States. My personal favorite is Carhenge
Christians call anyone who isn't part of the three abrahamic religions pagan. That is, in fact, the definition of the word. But in common usage it's come to describe a particular set of religions that did come out of the european continent.
The darkness... controls the music. The music... controls the soul.
It's no accident, for example, that the "sungod", the "moongodess", various gods for weather and bad or good hunting/harvest whatever developed multiple times independently.
:) )
Interestingly though in the German language the sun (die Sonne) is female, and the moon (der Mond) is male. I know of no other language with this unique feature. Most languages, if they differentiate the sexus for sun and moon, describe the sun as male and the moon as female. What does this tell us about Germans? (And yes, this makes the translation of myths and legends into German somewhat squirky
You obviously don't know shit. As a European, having been in NZ for one month straight dramtically changes your view on the way current EU life is so full of stress that it barely is able to breath naturally.
NZ is quite frankly the most perfect spot on earth I have ever seen / been to.
Big thanks for a wonderfull vacation to the allways helpfull and sympathetic NewZeelanders and maori folks!!
With great power comes great electricity bills.
In our modern era, marked as it is with religious strife, it is important to remember the early martyrs associated with the early Christian church in Europe.
Eyvind Kinrifa was a priest/shaman of the Northern European religion (the one with Odin, Thor, etc., I'll refer to it as paganism here) who died at the hand of Olaf Tryggvason around 1000 A.D. or so. Eyvind was an only child; his mother told him that he was only conceived with the help of a Finnish shaman. Olaf (aka "St. Olaf") captured Eyvind and held him prisoner. Olaf really wanted Eyvind to convert because he was a prominent adherent of the pagan religion. Olaf apparently made all the philosophical arguments that he could think of, but Eyvind would not convert. Olaf offered land, power, and treasure, but Eyvind would not convert. Olaf finally resorted to threatening Eyvind with torture and death, but Eyvind remained steadfast in his pagan beliefs.
According to the Heimskringla, Olaf Tryggvason's Saga (1844 translation), this is what finally happened:
Then the king [Olaf] ordered a pan of glowing coals to be placed upon Eyvind's belly, which burst asunder. Eyvind cried, "Take away the pan, and I will say something before I die," which also was done. The king said, "Wilt thou now, Eyvind, believe in Christ?" "No," said Eyvind, "I can take no baptism; for I am an evil spirit put into a man's body by the sorcery of Fins because in no other way could my father and mother have a child."
Somehow, I rather doubt that Eyvind really said that he personally was an "evil spirit," and even if he did, the story seems to be an attempt to explain away what to me sounds like the most horrifying cruelty. Olaf's activities, in my opinion, did not follow the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth.
Charlemagne is another fine example of a Christian king: he slaughtered literally thousands of people who refused baptism, and he instituted laws that imposed the death penalty on anyone engaging in pagan religious practices, particularly those associated with birth, marriage, and burial.
Take a look at them. They are janky POS's. Its built from freaken wood. The wonderment we get from the originals is not really the shape or the function of it, but rather the fact that it was built from huge blocks of impossible to move rocks. Its the fact that the blocks are so wildly huge that we can only guess how they were able to build something to such a high degree of precision, while we who are so advanced would struggle to reproduce it.
So Im sorry, but some bone heads making a fake stone henge out of wood which wont last 10 years let alone 10,000 is just LAME!
YACT - Yet Another Crackpot Theory. Nice try, but Stonehenge is surrounded by hundreds of burial mounds.
I can remember the exact moment I heard that, on those little portable tour guide devices. I didn't even notice them before, but as soon as I actually looked up and paid attention to all of those mounds scattered around everywhere, my mind was blown.