Slashdot Mirror
FBI Investigates Open Records Request
GrooveMoose writes "A university student at the University of Texas
makes an open
records request for information on the underground tunnel system at the school.
A few months later the FBI and Secret Service come knocking on his door to see
if he's a terrorist. He's still under investigation by the federal government
regarding a completely open request."
This case is never going to close. It's going straight to the cold case bin where it's going to sit forever.
The agents were called in to investigate if this kid was a threat based on one suspicious, yet not illegal, thing that he actually did. The key question was of course why he made a request for such sensitive info about tunnels he would never be allowed to access anyway. Well, the only way to answer that question is to ask the kid...
So they requested a meeting. They got the meeting. They asked him about every reason they could brainstorm about why he made the request, and didn't walk out knowing much more than they knew walking in. The question's now more-or-less impossible to answer.
And that's the end of the story. Unless he does something else to reactivate his file, this will always be an unsolved case. They'll likely never bother to do anything more, but should he ever come up again in their sights the Feds will at least have the records from this case to remind them of what he did in the past.
Baylor Has simmilar tunnels running under its campus that link all the buildings. They are pretty much for utilities, and maintanence of such. A couple years back they realized that everyone was useing em to sneak around (includeing the secret noze brotherhood) and decided to lock them up. Unless you have a pair of bolt cutters you can't get down there, but then again they are hot nasty, and all the exits are locked so its kinda pointless. If i asked the university about them, they would probebly give me a blank stare also though.
come comment on the madness at http://slashdot.org/~phreak03/journal/
1) Get an anonymous proxy manager like EarthStation5. Tell it to exclude proxies from the U.S, Britain, Australia and any other country that gives a shit about this kind of stuff. 2) Using said anonymous proxies, go to hotmail and get an email account. 3) Only browse using the anonymous proxies, and only use the web via proxies to get your email at hotmail. You will be protected from this kind of bullshit. If you don't do this, don't whine and moan if you get harrassed. Technology is always many steps ahead of the MAN who wants to run your life but it cannot protect you if you don't use it.
>>But, assuming he's not a terrorist, why did this student want to know about the underground tunnels?
Clearly, you've never been a college student.
Part 1: straw man. Terrorist-lords like UBL work by hiding in mountains, spreading propaganda, and getting dumb 20-somethings to actually do the attacks.
Part 2: roughly a post hoc. Simply because the FBI was corrupt during that time it does not mean it is still corrupt; investigations are not bad solely because they have been used for bad purposes.
Logical fallacies refuted. Poink. Your overly dramatic post vanishes.
I can't say I'm surprised. The university isn't exactly forthcoming when this kind of thing is concerned. You should have seen what it took just to get the location of SOME of their security cameras around campus. For those interested, it should be in the Daily Texan archives somewhere.
From UT Watch
UT Watch is a student-based watchdog group for the University of Texas at Austin.
We promote campus democracy, affordable education, and genuine access to higher education for all Texans.
We resist corporate control of education, authoritarian decision-making, and misuse of public money.
Caltech...underground tunnel system
Purdue has similar rules. Most tunnels (except the ones marked Accessible Tunnels)are banned because of safety reasons - apparently several have live bus bars running down the ceiling which is apparently quite low. And some really old (~80 years) steam tunnels have asbestos insulation with signs next to them saying "Danger! Asbestos!" or something similar.
But the bigger mystery at Purdue is how to get to the campus particle accelerator beneath the Engineering Mall. Everybody knows it's accessible from the MSEE building, but nobody knows exactly which entrance to take, unless they go with someone who already knows where it is situated (like a faculty member).
There is also a nuclear reactor in the basement of the EE building's annexe, of which there used to be occasional tours. I don't know if they still have those tours.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
i believe the chic term is 'person of interest' -- that releases them from liability while investigating him
Winter 2010: With Glowing Hearts
See:
http://homepage.mac.com/happywaffle/tunnels.html
But then: why did they both refuse FOI's on what they have already gathered about Mr. Miller? Shouldn't he be entitled to that?
Nope, because they can deny access to case records on open cases, and this case remains open because the Feds still don't know to their satisfaction what's going on here.
They don't have enough information to charge anybody. They don't have enough information to get search warrants... hell, they don't even have enough infromation to be sure did happen or even that a crime's even going to happen. Still, they've got a suspicious act that they don't know the meaning of.
Suspects rarely get access to their own files. Unless they're in jail or totally innocent, the file stays open forever awaiting information that's likely never to come.
It would seem his IRC channel is a public forum. The two party consent laws would thus not apply.
Nope. The Secret Service has a wider range of assignments than just the president.
They protect all government officials in need of protection, which at present even includes John Kerry because he has been certified as a viable candidate to become the President.
Also, they're also responsible for investigating all cases of counterfeit money.
FYI
The Secret Service is a branch of the Tresury department, and was originally founded to investigate counterfeiting money.
Because stuff like that is cool. The tunnel system at my school fascinated me (and many other students).
funny munging
If an Agent Knocks - Federal Investigators and Your Rights
People opposing U.S. policies in Central America, giving sanctuary to refugees from Guatemala and El Salvador, struggling for Black liberation, and against nuclear weapons, are today more than ever likely to receive visits from FBI agents or other federal investigators. Increasingly, agents are also visiting the families, friends, and employers of these activists.
This pamphlet is designed to answer the most frequent questions asked by people and groups experiencing government scrutiny, and to help them develop practical responses.
What is political intelligence?
Political intelligence is information collected by the government about individuals and groups. Files secured under the Freedom of Information Act disclose that government officials have long been interested in all forms of data. Information gathered by government agents ranges from the most personal data about sexual liaisons and preferences to estimates of the strength of groups opposing U.S. policies. Over the years, groups and individuals have developed various ways of limiting the collection of information and preventing such intelligence gathering from harming their work.
Do I have to talk to the FBI?
No. The FBI does not have the authority to make anyone answer questions (other than name and address see errata), to permit a search without a warrant, or to otherwise cooperate with an investigation. Agents are usually lawyers, and they are always trained as investigators; they have learned the power of persuasion, the ability to make a person feel scared, guilty, or impolite for refusing their requests for information. So remember, they have no legal authority to force people to do anything -- unless they have obtained an arrest or search warrant. Even when agents do have warrants, you still don't have to answer their questions.
Under what laws do the agents operate?
In 1976, FBI guidelines regulating the investigation of political activities were issued by Attorney General Edward H. Levi. Criticized by liberals and conservatives alike, the guidelines were issued in the wake of a Congressional committee's report of highly questionable activities by the FBI, monitoring the activities of domestic political groups seeking to effect change. The report exposed the FBI's counter-intelligence program (COINTELPRO) under which the agency infiltrated groups, compiled dossiers on, and directly interfered with individuals engaged in activities protected by the First Amendment rights to freedom of expression and association.
The FBI COINTELPRO program was initiated in 1956. Its purpose, as described later by FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover, was "to expose, disrupt, misdirect, discredit, or otherwise neutralize activities" of those individuals and organizations whose ideas or goals he opposed. Tactics included: falsely labelling individuals as informants; infiltrating groups with persons instructed to disrupt the group; sending anonymous or forged letters designed to promote strife between groups; initiating politically motivated IRS investigations; carrying out burglaries of offices and unlawful wiretaps; and disseminating to other government agencies and to the media unlawfully obtained derogatory information on individuals and groups.
In 1983, Attorney General William French Smith issued superseding guidelines that authorized "domestic security/ terrorism" investigations against political organizations whenever the FBI had a reasonable belief that these groups might violate a law. The new guidelines permitted the same intrusive techniques the FBI used against organized crime.
The Smith guidelines were justified by the Attorney General's observation that "our citizens are no less threatened by groups which engage in criminal violence for political... purposes that by those which operate lawlessly for financial gain." He concluded: "we must ensure that criminal intelligence resources that have been brought to bear
You just read The Prince, by Machiavelli, don't you?
It sounds funny, but at least #4 couldn't be closer to the truth. At least in my country.
That's an illegal interview question in the US. An interviewer can ask if you've been convicted of a particular crime, as long as it's reasonably related to the job in question, but cannot ask whether you've been arrested, investigated, questioned, indicted, etc.
But the bigger mystery at Purdue is how to get to the campus particle accelerator beneath the Engineering Mall. Everybody knows it's accessible from the MSEE building, but nobody knows exactly which entrance to take
Bzzzt. That's why you're not able to find it. It's accessed from the PHYS building, even though it lies closer to the MSEE building. The name is the Purdue Rare Isotope Measurement Lab, or PRIME Lab. The room number is 1396 PHYS.
I don't know about the entrace from MSEE - But there is an entrance to prime lab from the physicis building. There is all sorts of facinating stuff down there besides the accelerator, like the plasma generator and some of the more interesting laser labs. Go to the door closest to where the art buildings used to be facing CIVL and then take the stairs down. The really odd thing is if you ever need to go there for a legit reason, once your passed the security doors there are colored lines on the floor. You are told to follow a particular color which then leads to another security door with a phone to gain access. I've always wondered where the other colors go . . .
I posted this anon because some people might get pissed for me posting this info on slashdot, but I'm pretty sure that this information is floating around since they give tours to some parts of the labs to select students.
As an ex student, I wondered about the steam tunnels a lot too. They were a sort of campus myth.
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I personally know how to get from Jester East to Jester West underground, and have been in the Kinsolving dorm's basement which links to a lot of the tunnels. The Union even has caves that lead under the West Mall.
A friend of mine published a map and article in the 70s even, which should be relatively easy to find at the library in one of the old University magazines. It also described the IBM-built master grandfather clock that controlled the bells and clocks around the campus, including the tower. I would have filed a request too, if I had ever had the time.
While on the subject of UT mythos, there was also talk of an exclusive student organization setup by the administration called the 'Eyes of Texas' that was established to be the eyes and ears of the administration. They are even registered, though nobody I knew in it would every talk about what they really did: http://utdirect.utexas.edu/dsorg/detail.wb?code=0
The FBI WANTED to investigate the Bin Ladens before the 9/11 attacks because they suspected a plot. However, Bush and his administration blocked the investigation for unknown reasons. A head FBI official even resigned because he was so frustrated that they couldn't investiage what they say clearly as troublesome activities.
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http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=103&ro
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,
http://www1.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/a
http://dir.salon.com/politics/feature/2001/09/12/
Don't blame the FBI for not investigating, blame the justice department and the higher ups.
It's actually accessable from the physics building. Enter the doorway facing the chemE building, go to the basement and turn around. You'll see a door under the stairs that says PRIME lab.
A couple of tons of fertilizer? I don't know where you are from, but a couple of tons of fertilizer isn't going to go very far in fertilizing a field. There are farmers where I live (Western Kansas) that plant 30 circles of corn like its nothing. Another family owns close to 35 sections of farmland. You want to go tell these farmers that they'll have to wait on that shipment of fertilzer so the FBI can run a background check?
No wonder the 9/11 guys slipped through the cracks. People were too busy sniffing each other's crotch to catch any real criminal.
[ ]
First of all, there is no such distinction between "normal laws" and "Patriot Act laws". The Patriot Act IS the law, modifies existing laws, or expands existing jurisdiction.
Second of all, the Patriot Act demonstrably does not give the FBI the power to detain people without charge, without admitting they are holding them, and without warrant. That is pure, ignorant FUD. What the Patriot Act does do, is expand the Immigration and Naturalization Act to allow the FBI to detain a suspected terrorist ALIEN PERSON until they can be deported, or criminal charges brought against them. The term of that detention is LIMITED, and must be DISCLOSED to Congress.
The relevant text is below, from the Patriot Act.
SEC. 236A. (a) DETENTION OF TERRORIST ALIENS-
`(1) CUSTODY- The Attorney General shall take into custody any alien who is certified under paragraph (3).
`(2) RELEASE- Except as provided in paragraphs
(5) and (6), the Attorney General shall maintain custody of such an alien until the alien is removed from the United States. Except as provided in paragraph (6), such custody shall be maintained irrespective of any relief from removal for which the alien may be eligible, or any relief from removal granted the alien, until the Attorney General determines that the alien is no longer an alien who may be certified under paragraph (3). If the alien is finally determined not to be removable, detention pursuant to this subsection shall terminate.
`(3) CERTIFICATION- The Attorney General may certify an alien under this paragraph if the Attorney General has reasonable grounds to believe that the alien--
`(A) is described in section 212(a)(3)(A)(i), 212(a)(3)(A)(iii), 212(a)(3)(B), 237(a)(4)(A)(i), 237(a)(4)(A)(iii), or 237(a)(4)(B); or
`(B) is engaged in any other activity that endangers the national security of the United States.
`(4) NONDELEGATION- The Attorney General may delegate the authority provided under paragraph
(3) only to the Deputy Attorney General. The Deputy Attorney General may not delegate such authority.
`(5) COMMENCEMENT OF PROCEEDINGS- The Attorney General shall place an alien detained under paragraph (1) in removal proceedings, or shall charge the alien with a criminal offense, not later than 7 days after the commencement of such detention. If the requirement of the preceding sentence is not satisfied, the Attorney General shall release the alien.
`(6) LIMITATION ON INDEFINITE DETENTION- An alien detained solely under paragraph (1) who has not been removed under section 241(a)(1)(A), and whose removal is unlikely in the reasonably foreseeable future, may be detained for additional periods of up to six months only if the release of the alien will threaten the national security of the United States or the safety of the community or any person.
`(7) REVIEW OF CERTIFICATION- The Attorney General shall review the certification made under paragraph (3) every 6 months. If the Attorney General determines, in the Attorney General's discretion, that the certification should be revoked, the alien may be released on such conditions as the Attorney General deems appropriate, unless such release is otherwise prohibited by law. The alien may request each 6 months in writing that the Attorney General reconsider the certification and may submit documents or other evidence in support of that request.
`(b) HABEAS CORPUS AND JUDICIAL REVIEW-
`(1) IN GENERAL- Judicial review of any action or decision relating to this section (including judicial review of the merits of a determination made under subsection (a)(3) or (a)(6)) is available exclusively in habeas corpus proceedings consistent with this subsection. Except as provided in the preceding sentence, no court shall have jurisdiction to review, by habeas corpus petition or otherwise, any such action or decision.
`(2) APPLICATION-
`(A) IN GENERAL- Notwithstanding any other provision of law, inc
I've heard the argument about Two Party consent for IRC logging before, and it doesn't hold water. First, there is no expectation of privacy on an open channel discussion like IRC. (private message may enatil a different assumption) Second, logging is a "normal part of most client applications." Thus, not only do you have no expectation of privacy, you have every reasonable expectation that your conversation will be logged by someone in the channel. Third, at least some servers have a disclaimer in their MOTD stating that all traffic is subject to logging, and by connecting you acknowledge the fact.
For example:
--- - POSTED DISCLAIMER - Internet Relay Chat is an open communication system
--- - and may be subject to random monitoring by your ISP, our ISP, various and
--- - sundry carriers in between, Martians, Spooks, and god only knows what or
--- - who else, as well as Quality Control checks by admins or staff for any of
--- - a hundred valid reasons. If you are sending clear text traffic, you can
--- - have no reasonable expectation of privacy, and by connecting and using an
--- - IRC server, you acknowledge that simple fact.
(Bold emphasis isn't in the actual MOTD)
So, basically, the logging is covered by the AUP of the service. You could not read the MOTD and claim ignorance, but it wouldn't excuse you from the net's AUP.
Of course, that doesn't explain why the FBI and the Secret Service (Hmmm . . . SS . . . how appropriate) are reacting like pricks about the requests. I guess the concept of "Probabl cause" no longer applies.
Never attribute to malice what can as easily be the result of incompetence...
Granted, there's a lot of crazy, or ignorant zealots out there who hate the united states, and their allies.
But there are a lot more out there who are sick of being served puppet dictatorships, having their children, husbands, wives and friends killed, hooked on heroin, sexually abused(?!!), bombed to oblivion, and tortured.
For every afghan, iraqi and former soviet who starves to death or doesn't make it through the winter because of the collapse of their local ecconomy, further enforced by american influence, nevermind things like land mines, undetonated bombs, etc, another few are going to remain everlastingly resentful of america.
For every iraqi, afghan, guatemalan, haitian, phillipino, soviet, Chilean, Nicaraguan, columbian, spaniard, korean, palestinian, vietnamese or cuban killed, one or two people at least are going to live their entire lives with hatred for the united states. We are talking in tens of millions of dead, here, and therefor tens of tens of millions with everlasting, generational hatred for the united states and all those who support them.
'The easiest way to reduce the number of atrocities in the world, is to stop committing them.' Even if the united states stopped pissing the rest of the world off, the hatred against them may never go away. This is the great success of your military industrial congressional complex...due to it's former actions, it's now constantly going to be at war, continually increasing the intensity of 'the cycle of violence'.
There's good reasons for the world to be pissed off at the united states. I'm pissed off because of treaty orginisations influencing laws into my own country(Canada) which make me a terrorist, and tear all the rights away from anyone accused of terrorism. They, alongside with my democratically american supported candidates are responsible for this. Others may be pissed off about (American supported, if not outright run) Genocides effecting them, or further worsening ecconomic conditions due to the resource heavy american style capitalism, Which Australia is at least somewhat of a supporter of. Many many things are going wrong in the world, and not all of them are caused by americans, but many are, and these are the things that if stopped, may reduce the amount of people out there with a valid reason to hate the united states, and therefor you will eventually stop the massive support that those *without* reason to hate the united states are getting from the aforementioned class.
Decrease the amount of oil consumed in your country, and put emphasis on long term goals including efficiency instead of short term production.
Stop sending arms to isreal, turkey, columbia, or anywhere else, for that matter.
Stop your war on drugs, and at least try win the war on terrorism by not supporting terrorist states.
Acknowledge and Abide by International Law.
Tear down guantanamo bay, and give the land back to cuba.
Stop all trade embargo's on cuba.
or if you cannot do any of the above, try at least to not make me add another item to the above list in the future, specifically related to me or my family.
You see, generic hatred is not even a significant part of the story, when you consider the hatred that is not generic. [/rant] As for being a hippocrite, I'm getting some skills which will be applied later on in life. I, for one, feel it better to give yourself tools to help others, and thereby have at least some efficiency in doing so than to help others with no efficiency at all.
GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
Just like the original poo-poo'd reports on torture in Iraq, this story is just the tip of the iceberg.
The postings here interested me in looking around for more info.
Unfortunately, it led to this horrendous rant!
In similar news . . . Photographer arrested for taking pictures of vice president's hotel
The Patriot act, Secret Courts and Homeland Security
It only gets worse. The new Patriot Act extension recomendations by Ashcroft includes:
The Patriot act, linked with the Homeland Security Act, has gutted the Freedom of Information Act.
In other News from the press: everything is classified now, and won't be released anytime soon. (See "Amendment To Executive Order No. 12958")
How much is this being used now?
How much abuse has been identified?