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Corporate Work in the US vs. Canada?
No One You Know asks: "I've been working as a sysadmin for an insurance company in the US for the past six years, and have decided to move to Canada. I've had it with corporate America, but I'm trying to keep an open mind while job hunting. How does Canadian corporate life compare to that of the US?"
This is not true. Canada and the US have an agreement that Canadians entering the US and Americans entering Canada are still subject to the draft of either country.
The ever-popular "dodge the draft by fleeing to Canada" no longer works.
Proudly supporting the Libertarian Party.
Uh, I make a six figure income, and my tax rate is around 35%. Yes, every dollar I make over $110,000 is taxed at 50%, but the first $7000 I pay no tax, and the tax rate increases from there. Taxes aren't much worse than California.
I can't speak for everyone, but I get paid more than my counter parts in the USA (and I can compare directly, as I am in a services company with employees in the US too). My income taxes are about equal, although sales taxes are higher. Finally, our health care is no worse or better than that in the USA, and costs half as much per person to run.
There are a lot of reasons to leave the USA right now.
:)
A lot of Canadas laws are a lot less harsh than those in the USA. We have copyright obviously, but stuff like sharing music is legal. My friends can borrow my cd's and burn them, I can download from P2P networks, etc. All legally.
We certainly dont have anything like the patriot act or the DMCA.
I'm sure we will eventually be in the same boat, but currently, you can have a bit more peace of mind living in canada than the usa. (All IMHO
It's easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
The health care is NOT state-provided. Health care is provided by doctors opening practices or groups of doctors running a clinic. Same as the states and elsewhere. The difference is that the government pays the doctor, the user doesn't pay.
;^)
For most people, the government doesn't pay for most drugs, semi-private hospital rooms, physiotherapy, etc. This is where the employer usually contributes. Most companies operating in Canada offer some sort of enhanced health plan to their employees that covers such extras.
Yeah, we pay more taxes in Canada. And our schools are better, there's less crime, and our inner cities don't look like third-world conflict zones. Go figure.
As most posters have confirmed, the Canadian office environment is pretty much identical to the US... maybe a bit less hyperactive.
This is maybe the downside - the Canadian customer is less reactive to high-pressure sales. We're maddeningly slow to cut a deal, and often passive-aggressive when subjected to a high-pressure sales pitch. This drives US salespeople crazy.
As an American* working in Canada, I'll tell you that in my experience yes, it is more open and relaxed than in the US. That is until your company becomes noticed as an aquisition target because it's so successful and a US company sucks it up to help keep them alive. Having been through the experience, the contrast in company cultures was tremendous and the resulting atmosphere in the company continues to be depressing and as filled with corporate politics and frustrations as one could imagine.
My advice: if you find a good job in Canada with the atmosphere you seek, enjoy it while it lasts. I did. And since then I've moved on to a smaller Canadian company where I enjoy the relaxed culture still, sadly I just don't get paid as well for it.
As an aside, for an excellent resource on Canadian culture in general compared to the US, see Emily Way's An American's Guide to Canada. There is much useful info there.
*Disclaimer: For those who are anal about such things, yes, I generally refer to myself as an American, prefectly aware that there are many other countries upon the American continent. But having lived in three other countries apart from the US, I have found that by refering to yourself as a US citizen, estadounidense, or whatever else often tends to confuse people. Really, it does. Once they realize what you're saying, they invariably reply "oh, you're American". So after years of trying to buck the trend, I've given in to the pressure from residents of other countries, including Canada and Mexico, the two countries with the most right to be offended by such a moniker, and call myself an American.
Peameal or backbacon...I think it is geographically dependent (the term "peameal" seems to be mostly used in Ontario and points east--out here in the west you'd likely get the response "what the heck is peameal?")
One thing to note is that like Chinese food served in North America, "Canadian Bacon" as served in the US is a pale and inaccurate imitation of the real thing--it is NOT seasoned nor cured the way it actually is in Canada. It's like calling corned beef Montreal Smoked Meat (they're different and it's always disappointing when the former is pawned off as the latter).
If you like the real thing but can't find it in the US, try ordering it from this site.
Anyways, to keep this post on-topic, I'd say that "corporate Canada" and "corporate America" are pretty much like "US style Canadian Bacon" and peameal/backbacon--quite similar in general but when you look further you notice differences. Among them:
* The "competitive drive" is not as pronounced in Canada. Americans seem to place more importance on climbing the ladder, job titles and so on. Canadians strive to move up, but it doesn't seem the emphasis on being "VP" or "Regional Manager". We don't care what our title is so long as we are fairly compensated.
* Canadian business seems more fixated on process and bureaucracy. My employer is a global corporation, and even within the same company there is more paperwork and business processes seem more combersome than in our American offices.
* Be prepared for a shock when you see your first paycheque. The income tax, CPP (pension) and EI (employment insurance) deductions will take a bigger chunk of your earnings than you are used to. That and your salary will be a bit smaller to start with (don't worry, it's in Canadian dollars so it won't APPEAR to be significantly less). Overall the tax take is higher but it is taken in bigger chunks. In the US, you have federal, state, municipal taxes, health insurance, this fee, that fee, etc. US government nickels and dimes. In Canada they clobber you in the head and take your money all at ones, more or less (except for the GST).
* Cost of living is cheaper in Canada overall--Houses cost a bit less, medicare is cheaper, food is a bit cheaper, broadband internet access and cable TV are significantly cheaper (for you slashdotters out there). Makes up for the insanely high gasoline prices.
There's more but you get the idea...kind of a parallel universe really...
I have to strongly disagree with this (as an American that's been living and working in Germany for the last two years).
I can see how one could draw this conclusion after a few weeks in said places, but the gap between American and German work environments may be subtle, but it's very significant.
You are correct, but the biggest difference is in the number of handguns. America has about 9-10 times the population of Canada, but in that chart 63 times the number of handguns. You can get rifles fairly easy here (hunting), but handguns and now bullets (for any gun) are harder to get here than in the US.
I've always been of the opinion that there are more guns in a major US city (say New York or LA) than there are in all of Canada.
"But I trust in the people's capacity for reflection, rage and rebellion." -Oscar Olivera
I live in Windsor, ON and work in Dearborn, MI (a suburb of Detroit). My round trip commute is 54km/34mi or about an hour per day. I've had the opportunity to work in both countries, and I've noticed a few differences:
:)
- There is definitely more career opportunity in the U.S. It also seems easier to shine (not just *my* opinion), probably because with such a vast economy, there is plenty of opportunity to hire some real duds.
- You'll almost definitely make more money in the U.S. I enjoy the best of both worlds, paid in U.S. dollars, yet live in lower-cost Canada. Taxes are higher in Canada, but housing, utilities and food is somewhat lower.
- U.S. medical coverage is wonderful, as long as you have insurance. The Canadian system is actually quite good, except for certain types of procedures where there are unacceptably long waits. (I love having medical coverage in both countries.) Yes you pay for the Canadian system in terms of taxes, but don't lose sight of all the co-pays and hidden fees that come with most U.S. insurance programs. A coworker of mine recently had an extended stay in a U.S. hospital, and all those little fees added up to over $1000 USD.
- Culturally, I notice a few small differences in general, but most of the people I work with in the U.S. are wonderful, equally nice as the folks I've worked with in Canada. Canadians in general seem to be a bit more polite (seems hard to get a "you're welcome" out of many Americans), and Americans are definitely more confident and aggressive (which probabaly explains their business success). But most of the stereotypes mentioned here are just wrong in my opinion.
Work in Canada or the U.S.? It's really a matter of personal taste. You can't lose, as long as you work hard and find a nice place to work, I think you'll live very comfortably in either country.
By the way - those who said it's difficult to work in Canada are wrong. Computer folks under NAFTA have plenty of ways to obtain employment in either country.
-Steve-