Slashdot Mirror
Dealing w/ Online Fraudulent Sellers?
Nicholas French asks: "I have recently made a couple of online purchases, one was an Ancient Bronze Amlash ring from
The Antiquities Company which cost me *cough* 'a lot of money' and was backed up by a 'guarantee of authenticity'. The other was a second hand Book Crowds
& Power, via the Amazon
Marketplace, which I have not even received regardless of the numerous emails sent to both the seller and Amazon. I have since taken delivery of the ring and had its metal composition tested...turns out it is actually brass, and not exactly Ancient either! When I approached the seller via email, quoting my money back 'guarantee of authenticity' I was told politely to take a hike. I am considering speaking to Trading standards but am not really sure where to start, so have added myself to the growing numbers of reported Fraud victims on Fraud.Org. Have any other Slashdot readers managed to retrieve their hard earned cash from these Fraudsters, or had any similar problems with large online's such as
Amazon?"
reasonable rates (generally percentage off the money required to get back)
discounts for regular customers
free educational seminar on bad nature of fraud conducted by instructors in leather jackets with baseball bats
boosting scammer's local economy by increasing his medical bills
YOu did use your credit card RIGHT? Well then go through them and their fraud department. Very likely to be successful.
Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
Did you pay with your credit card?
If so, contact your credit card company to initiate a chargeback. For items that you haven't received, you should just have to fill out a form. If the item wasn't as described, you will have to return the item to the seller via insured shipping w/ tracking and indicate the tracking info on the form.
Different credit card companies have different policies, but most of them should be willing to help you out.
Mention them on slashdot and hope that they get slashdotted. If they have a crappy ISP then that should bring down the website for a while. While this won't get you your money back, you'll have the satisfaction of causing them headaches, and that's worth something, isn't it?
- doug
what did you think would happen, lusting after the ancient Ring?
Honestly, my experiences with customer service at Amazon have been extremely helpful, although follow-through has been spotty. There's no question that you should be protected by their guarantee, though. You don't explain what their response was -- are they refusing to honor it?
As far as the other company goes, it sounds like straight-up fraud -- go to the relevant law enforcement people and, in the future, avoid vendors with names like "The Honourable Company". And *always* use a credit card!
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
eBay right now has around 30 One Ring, 100% authentic. Nah, I'm not going to be the one that actually believes that all of these are the unique One Ring that turns you invisible. They'll make $5.95 ($11.95 "buy it now") vanish, however! I've even seen eBay entries for "One Ring" that "really works".
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Use your credit card for small purchases, make sure it has some kind of fraud protection. If you get ripped off, just do a chargeback.
If it is a large purchase, seek out one of the internet's escrow companies. They are used all the time in these matters. You can even have them independantly verify the authenticity of your purchase before money is actually transferred.
Good luck.
--Chris
As much as I hate to admit it I purchased an imaginary girlfriend from imaginarygirlfriends.com. They charged my credit card about $45.00 and then I never heard from them. I started sending them emails but they never bothered to reply to my emails. Eventually, after about two weeks, I contacted the company who handles their credit card transactions and I filed a complaint with them. Still nothing happened. I again mailed the company that handles their credit transactions, this time an angry email accusing imaginarygirlfriends.com of being a scam and stealing my money. Within a few hours I got an email back from them saying the issue was resolved and that I would be getting a refund and an apology from imaginarygirlfriends.com.
It is not bad enough that I am so low and pathetic that I would think of using a service like imaginarygirlfriends.com but then they go and just take my money and make me look like a bigger loser. Of course in the end I did get my money back but only after weeks had passed and many unanswered emails had been sent.
Never buy anything from a page that has annoying music on it. Very bad sign. Also, on the front page there's a link to an RV sales site. Another really bad sign. The clues were all there, so caveat emptor.
This is America, damnit. Speak Spanish!
It's a bit hard to find, but you can file a claim here if you get stiffed by an Amazon Marketplace seller, and Amazon will refund your money. I've used it once in the past with no problems.
Omnes arx vestrum sunt adiuncta nobis.
But what about the other direction? One guy found out he was getting scammed by a buyer and so instead of selling him a Powerbook, he sold him a P-P-P-Powerbook. :) Gotta love it.
This is precisely why I'll only use a credit card.
Banks and credit card (at least, all of those that I've dealt with) seem to take a very dim view of fraud. I've NEVER had a problem filing a dispute, and getting my money back. I've had unauthorized charges, defective products/equipment that the vendor would not accept for a return, items that failed to live up to their description, and services offered and paid for that were not adequately provided. In every one of these instances, I've been able to successfully get my money back.
Don't pay via any other method than a credit card. Don't use a check; it's notoriously difficult to get money back in the case of check fraud. Using a postal money order depends on your ability to both A) find the seller and B) find someone at the post office who's interested in following it up. DO NOT use a service like Western Union; this is one of the easiest ways for sellers to get your money and just disappear.
Paypal is something of a toss-up. I've asked my bank, and they said that they had no problem disputing a charge with Paypal if an item was sold fraudulently. I have not needed to test this yet, but here are my concerns: First, Paypal may claim that my agreement is with them and not the seller, and that they have fulfilled their part of the bargain: to deliver my money to the seller. I don't know how well that argument would hold up, but I don't relish the idea of having to argue it. I think I'd win, but it woudn't be fun. Second, Paypal may just choose to write off the loss, and send my account to a collection agency, again citing their responsibilities, and the terms and conditions they list on their site. Collection agencies are MUCH harder to argue with, and legally, Paypal may very well be correct. In general, I only use Paypal for items with a relatively small value/selling price.
In just about any instance, using a credit card is better at protecting your interests. There are no guarantees, but here's how the Visa system works:
Buyer gives Seller their credit card. Seller runs the card through Processor. (Whomever is processing their charges for them) This can be a bank or a third-party processor, but usually it's the latter, unless it's a larger company with their own merchant account with a financial institution. Third-party processors are usually a cheaper option for companies or sellers with lower sales numbers. Anyway, Seller gives Processor Buyer's credit card info. Processor runs the card through the Visa system and if it returns an authorization, either immediately deposits the money into Seller's account, or sends them a biweekly/monthly check, depending on their agreement. The Visa system does a test with Buyer's credit card backer (their bank, CC company, etc.) to make sure the funds are available. This is not actually a charge; it's called an "authorization", and will drop off in a few days to a week. The actual charge (called a "posted" charge) comes through anywhere from the same day to a few weeks later, though usually it takes 2-3 days, and again must be initiated by Seller's financial institution, though this is usually automatic.
For a dispute, Buyer's financial institution tells Visa International that the charge was fraudulent, or services were not provided, or whatever. Visa goes to Seller's financial institution and asks for proof that the charge was legit, and Seller's financial institution forwards this request to Seller. This is often quite difficult for Seller, if they do not have your signature. That's the reason most companies require so much verification over the phone/web. If Seller cannot demonstrate that they have provided all products/services promised, the charge is reversed. This is called a "chargeback", and usually costs Seller's financial institution (and thus, Seller), a fee. Most sellers would rather just process the return than get a chargeback, both because of the fee and because it's a black mark on their record. I'm not sure who
If you purchased something from that website, you simply deserve to be ripped off. Note the following:
- It is extremely poorly designed for a website that sells expensive things. The spelling/grammar is screwed up in a few places.
- There is no contact information, no street address, and it's hard to even tell what country they are in.
- They accept Paypal instead of having a normal credit card processor
- They try to sell you vacations and such
- There is no policy page. Nothing is mentioned about returns. Nothing about the authenticity policy is in writing.
- There are many links to suspicious websites
Basically, a web store that looks like this is an obvious scam. And chances are, if it looks like a scam, it probably is.
I think you need to wait 30 days and then you can file a claim with Amazon within the next 30. They'll try to resolve it with the seller, and it it doesn't work out, they'll give you your money back. I ordered a book which never arrived; no response to emails. And got a refund no questions asked. Ebay doesn't have that kind of policy AFAIK.
Alex.