Slashdot Mirror
Paypal Deals Blow To Freenet
hankaholic writes "I was checking into the latest progress of the Freenet project when I noticed a disturbing note on their homepage: 'Paypal has frozen the account we use to accept donations over the web, they refuse to give any reason other than "use of an anonymous proxy" [...] all of the projects subscriptions have been canceled which is a significant setback. Other means of accepting donations, including E-Gold, are still active.' Paypal is sending them a check for their remaining balance. The news update on the Freenet homepage also includes contact information for some people at Paypal."
I mean, Come on, Paypal, you of all people should know better! (FP?)
This sig no verb.
Absent a satisfactory response from PayPal, Slashdot should stop accepting PayPal to pay for subscriptions.
Floating face-down in a river of regret...and thoughts of you...
Paypal is certainly a shady company. To find out why, go to www.paypalsucks.org
why do people put up with this crap?
i refuse to get paypal for the simple reason that one small complaint (which paypal won't divulge) can lead to them freezing potentially thousands of dollars.
they are NOT a bank, and don't need to be accountable! yet they offer bank like services...
This is eBay's house, they get to set the rules.
Since their takeover of the company, PayPal's free-wheeling days abruptly ended. PayPal can no longer be used to fund online gambling of any kind, it can't even be used to fund porn of any kind.
Now, online gambling is of questionable legality in all fifty states and many other places in the world where real gambling is prohibited or heavily restricted. However, most forms of pornography are legal in nearly all parts of the world except where the government is heavily controled by religious influence.
Here in the USA, the government's nowhere close to banning porn.
I think eBay's concern is keeping the PayPal name from being soiled by anything contraversial becase if anybody says "Boycott PayPal... they're helping fund Thing X!", then that indirectly means a boycott of eBay.
to determine with whom they do business. As long as they send Freenet the balance and don't steal, I see nothing (catastrophically) wrong with this.
From the Freenet page
If you are concerned about whether your account might be at risk due to your political opinions you may wish to speak to their PR contact Hani Durzy at (408) 376 7458. If you are an investor and you would like to see what other political opinions Paypal doesn't like, you may want to speak to their Investor contact Tracey Ford at (408) 376 7205.
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
Paypal isn't a bank, it isn't FDIC-insured, and doesn't have any kind of the obligations normal banks have toward their customers. They're been freezing/witholding/cancelling accounts willy-nilly ever since they started. Nothing new here. The only interesting bit is that they probably want to detach their names from the Freenet name, that sort of reeks of piracy, RIAA suits and kiddy porn. Basically, it's a bunch of verified pirates trying to not be associated with a piracy activity tool. Amusing...
PayPal has grown increasingly hostile towards anyone accepting payments via their service if they do anything "out of the ordinary". Not long ago, I heard about a woman complaining because her PayPal account was suspended after she accepted donations to help keep her "size acceptance" web site going. (PayPal seemed to be afraid it was pornography-related in some way, since you had a female collecting money from her personal web site.) In reality, she was trying to boost the self-esteem of overweight women and let them know about events where they could meet guys interested in larger women.
They're also scared of anyone or any business that doesn't provide full disclosure of their whereabouts (complete address, phone/contact numbers, and so on). To put it in perspective though, don't forget they're just one of the arms of eBay nowdays - so their primary interest is simply being a facilitator for their own auction buyers and sellers to complete transactions. If you even so much as look vaguely like you do things in a similar way to eBay auction scammers, you'll get cut off in an instant.
Paypalsucks.com is sponsored by Paypal's competition. Anyone who disagrees with the moderator has their IP address blocked from entering the site. Most thos that post are spazz freaks who couldn't handle a normal transaction anyway.
An eye opener about PaypalSucks.com
Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
To a lot of slashdotters that would be a reason to do business with them.
I run a mid-sized jewelry shop on the web and have been using paypal for over a year. I actualy switched from using MerchantServices because of the constant headache with fraud and chargebacks. As much as people hate to hear it, PayPal is on the side of the merchant not the customer and in 9 cases out of 10 (at least for me) the customer is the one trying to screw me over. Before I get flamed, I would like to say that I am in no way trying to deffend their actions in this case, however I have learned that their verification techniques are always based on some specific activity.
Well this thread will contain hundreds of anecdotes and 0 posts about how this will actually hurt Freenet other than to say something brilliant along the lines of "if you aren't with us you are against us." Paypal is not a monopoly. Sack up and move on.
The Freenet project leaders have said they've never logged into PayPal through a proxy. Maybe someone else was trying to brute-force the project's PayPal password through a proxy? Maybe a large percentage of Freenet's donors, being generally privacy-minded types, used proxies when they logged into PayPal to send money to the project? PayPal is known to freeze accounts which have been sent fraudulent funds, whether they know it or not; maybe now they're freezing accounts which receive funds sent from someone using a proxy.
I really hope PayPal provides an official explanation.
Thanks to the War on Drugs, it's easier to buy meth than it is to buy cold medicine!
Refusing service is one thing. But the main reason people are pissed about paypal is they have a tendency to refuse service..*and* not let you get your money out of your account.
Happened to two of my friends. One had over $5000 in there for a couple months before they decided that no, he didn't actually do anything wrong and wrote him a check. This is definitely a company that needs some more regulation. It looks like a bank and acts like a bank. But it isn't governed by any of the laws that real banks are.
Terminating an account and mailing you your balance is fine. Annoying, but fine. Holding your money hostage? Definitely not ok.
That said, with the number of people this happens to, you'd have to be a retard to keep money in the account. I use paypal, but *only* via credit card and I sure as hell don't leave any money with them.
PayPal notified my one company, Psychotropics Cornucopia, Inc. http://www.psychotropics.org/ , Thursday May-15th 2003 via a "canned" email (see below for the full text of it) that stated in part: "Due to the severity of the violation, or your accounts history of repeated violations, your account will be permanently locked".
... doing so can be disaster ... many folks think the above can't happen to them until it does, then it's too late.
The only email notice we received from PayPal/Ebay terminating our account - no advanced notice, no discussion, just abrupt termination.
------
> Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 14:52:54 -0700
> To: Ronald Bennett
> Subject: PayPal (KMM30070882V34963L0KM)
> From: "customercare@paypal.com"
> Reply-To: "customercare@paypal.com"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset = "us-ascii"
> X-Mailer: KANA Response 7.01.102
> Message-Id:
> X-UIDL: [4O"!%U*!!oXj"!SHg"!
>
> Dear Ronald Bennett,
>
> We regret to inform you that your PayPal account will be permanently
> locked for the following reason:
>
> * engaging in activity expressly prohibited under the Acceptable Use
> Policy.
>
They further stated that we violated their Acceptable Use Agreement by selling illegal drug paraphernalia. It's obvious from their "canned" email that no one from PayPal ever actually examined our company, our many services, nor our past PayPal transaction history. We only sell advertising, videos, and memberships (non-adult) - NOT pipes, etc.
We opened our PayPal account back on June-21-2000 and in that time we *never had any disputes* and we *never had any reversed payments* - an amazing record given our activity. We had a "Business account" (which costs much more than a personal account) with PayPal and yet they never attempted to call us nor email us regarding their actions until after they terminated our account; all they sent was one brief automated email - not exactly customer service.
We requested more details from them regarding why our PayPal account was abruptly closed, but we never any response other than automated emails that mentioned nothing we didn't already know. PayPal was very convenient and served us well for nearly 3 years, but no more.
Our experience should serve as a warning to others who rely on PayPal
On the bright side, we'd already begun phasing PayPal out prior to them suspending our account, but I personally know of several people who have lost substantial amounts of business due to PayPal "problems".
Ron Bennett
If they freeze your account, and it's your only bank account, guess what? You are absolutely fucked! There is no way for you to get money out of your bank account until paypal unfreezes it.
YOU: [ringing bank]
BANK: Good afternoon, Whatever Bank.
YOU: Yes, I just tried accessing my money and it says my account is frozen.
BANK: Okay, can I have your account number please and verification?
YOU: [give info]
BANK: Ah, yes. It seems we received a call from a company in a different state this morning.
YOU: Okaaayyy...?
BANK: And they asked us to freeze your account for no particular reason. So we did.
YOU: Wait a second. You're saying that an unrelated third party is able to just call you up out of the blue and freeze my account in violation of my banking agreement?
BANK: Absolutely, sir. You see, we freeze all bank accounts at the request of any unknown third party.
YOU: So if I asked you to freeze your own personal account...?
BANK: You bastard. Now *my* money is frozen and I can't do anything until you authorize me to unfreeze it.
YOU: Hah, now you know what it's like.
BANK: Actually, we're just joking with you. You see, according to banking regulations, you are our customer. The only time we would ever freeze an account is if the bank is going to be out some money and we need to put a reserve on the money you already have with us.
YOU: But I read on Slashdot...
BANK: Yes, we've been getting calls about that all day. It seems that somebody on Slashdot has been spreading FUD.
YOU: Well, maybe I shouldn't be surprised.
BANK: Hey, it's Slashdot, isn't it? I'll fancy a guess and say that the person who said that didn't present any evidence to back it up?
YOU: Yeah, that's exactly right.
BANK: We have to deal with people like that all day. They make unsubstantiated claims about what PayPal can or can't do. Why, just the other day, a customer said that PayPal sold their home without them knowing it just so that PayPal could recover a chargeback!
YOU: Oh come on!
BANK: No, I'm serious. You'd be surprised what other people can come up with when the burden of proof is absent.
YOU: Actually, I probably wouldn't be. From time to time, I read Slashdot at -1.
BANK: [laughs] On Friday, someone said that the GNAA acquired this bank.
YOU: [laughing hysterically] Oh, that's a good one. Well, I guess my account can't be frozen then?
BANK: Of course not. At least not by PayPal. They would need a court order to do something like that.
YOU: Thanks, that's good to know.
BANK: No problem. Have a good afternoon!
Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
Paypal does suck sometimes, and they do have many examples of using dubious business practices. So what? Big deal. I don't think they lost any money, did they? Why doesn't Freenet just publicize that they can accept money through NetworkForGood.org? From their website:
You can donate to their 501c3 organization here, I believe.
If Paypal doesn't like the aims of the Freenet project, perhaps they may be within their legal rights to drop the account. But it's certainly not very ethical. Suppose other major corporations behaved the same way...
- "Sorry, sir, McDonalds will not sell you hamburgers because of your registered political party."
- "No, you can't buy a Ford automobile because records show that you have donated money to the ACLU."
- "Because you protested the war, you can't open a checking account with Bank of America."
- "SBC has disonnected your telephone service because you've written software that is released under the GPL."
Do you want to live in that world? Or do you want corporations to have to treat individuals in a nondiscriminatory fashion?[I'm obviously not claiming that the corporations I've named have any such policies; they were chosen arbitrarily as examples.]
Not if you use MBNA'a "ShopSafe" credit card service. Please note that I have no vested interest in MBNA whatsoever, except as a happy customer. If you have a regular MBNA credit card, what MBNA does is provide software you can install on your computer that automatically connects up to their credit card "NetAccess" service (you have to log in with name and password each time) and lets you generate "disposable" credit card numbers as needed (much like Spamex.com does with their disposable email address service that I also use :-).
I generate a new credit card number for each and every Internet transaction, and the MBNA ShopSafe software lets me set the maximum amount that can be debited to each disposable credit card number as well as the expiration date (up to one year in the future). The way I handle PayPal is to generate a disposable credit card number with an expiration date of one year and a reasonable credit limit (say $500 for example, or whatever you want). If I were to ever want to rescind my credit card information from PayPal, I do not even have to contact PayPal at all - I just start up the ShopSafe software and tell it to delete the particular disposable credit card number that I provided to PayPal so that no further charges can be charged to that account number. I'm very surprised that as far as I know, MBNA is the only one who provides this type of service, so they have no competition in this area.
9/11 Eyewitnesses to Explosive WTC Demolition 1 of 2