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Amateur Rocket Reaches Space
PatMouser writes "An amateur rocket carrying a ham radio avionics package reached the edge of space May 17. Launched from Nevada's Black Rock Desert, the 21-foot Civilian Space Xploration Team (CSXT) GoFast rocket quickly attained the 100 km altitude to make Amateur Radio and amateur rocketry history. Two earlier CSXT attempts to reach space--the last almost two years ago--were unsuccessful. A jubilant Avionics Team Leader Eric Knight, KB1EHE, called the successful launch 'a phenomenal experience.' The full ARRL article can be read here. There's nothing on CSXT's site yet..." (See this pre-launch story for more details.)
Alright....next step is to add a couple extra pounds of propellant, and 3 guys. j/k
Does this mean it is in orbit, or just went into space and fell back down.
I was part of a Super-Loki rocket team in WI a few years back that went sub-orbital. (I was a camera systems specialist=ohhh, pretty pictures, look!!) It was an Amatur rocket, so does that count?
--sig fault--
Apparently one of the main people working on the craft is from Minnesota, a talk radio station was interviewing him tonight. They have located the beacon on the craft, and are at the moment trying to get to it, but the weather is bad, and it's in a desert location. It's kind of a Wright brothers moment.
The emperor is naked.
I dont get it. I mean, I understand the concept of "Amateur Radio", and "Amateur Rocketry" right, but theres got to be a point when your mad scientest project gets out of the garage and into, say, space, and all of the sudden like pair of twin torpedos slaming into the death star your Amateur project gets a slashdotting and its pro.
Hell, I can go pro by buying an $8,000 digital SLR camera, why is it that shooting a home brew satelite into space is amateur? (j/k)
Its not like some homies duct taped an 8-track to an upside down trash can and stuck some dinomite under it, right? Please, for the love of god, come up with a better classification than this!#!
Hell, even in soviet russia amateur rockets launch you.
Come on, you know you were thinking it too
Im dreaming ofa big bndwdth, That can resist the
wants to retain its amateur status so it can compete in the olympics.
I'm sure it can make its costs back in sponsorship though.
How long before someone creates the first amateur ICBM. Then moves on to become the world's first amateur nuclear power?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
It's professional when you get paid to do it.
Two Roommates and a Boyfriend, updates Monday, Wednesday, and Friday
"Eh, might someone wake me up when they actually reach space?"
It's kind of arbitrary. 100km or 60mi is the cut-off, so if they made it past that -- which they apparently did -- they "reached space."
I really hope that when they reach the landing site they don't find any petunias or sperm whales.
amateur. n. "A person who engages in an art, science, study, or athletic activity as a pastime rather than as a profession."
profession. n. "An occupation or career."
(American Heritage Dictionary)
Karma: Segmentation fault (tried to dereference a null post)
Hmmm... the ham dialect of l33t Speak?
Arguably, making orbit or Earth escape trajectory is a much less arbitrary definition than simply going up to where the atmosphere is really thin. After all, "space" is a nebulous concept. We're always in space. It just so happens that this little planet has air for us to breath. Achieving orbit means that the craft is actually a craft capable of flight outside the influence of our gravity. (sort of)
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
I'm usually not one to reply to my own post but I've seen here way too many posts that basicly say "It is amateur because you are not being paid", while this rule does not explain this anomaly.
If I were to spend 10 years learning and praticing ballroom dancing would I not become a professional ballroom dancer?
Im dreaming ofa big bndwdth, That can resist the
Classifications other than amateur:
When you can do it reliably, it becomes "private space travel".
When you do it for money, it becomes "commercial space travel".
Anyone that could launch a radio into space could launch a re-entry vehicle full of bio-engineered, which could upset the entire eco-system. Those damn terrorists would love to get in on something like that. Imagine........just one rocket full of bio-engineered corn over the corn belt could bring the entire country to it's knees as every farmer in middle america got sued for copyright infringement by the patent holders. :-)
Today's show is brought to you by the number 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0: 25
No matter how many years you spent doing ballroom dancing you'd never become a professional until you got paid. And even if you were terrible at it but got paid you'd still be a professional.
But let's say you're a good dancer who isn't paid. People might say you were "very professional" in your attitude or presentation but in that case they're using an analogy - saying you're as good as a professional, not saying you're actually a professional.
I think a lot of people are confused about this word. We use the term "amateurish" to talk about things which are crappy and I really think this helps to add to the confusion. For instance I write free software which by definition is an "amateur" activity since I don't get paid for it but I'd really like to think it's not "amateurish" and crappy!
There are some other distinctions used these days too. I play in a band which you'd definitely describe as "amateur". But maybe someday we'll get booked at a venue and become "semi-pro", meaning we get paid to play - but not enough to give up our day jobs. Not quite "professional" but not "amateur" either.
The difference is simple, and you see examples of it everywhere: The basic variation of anything is "amateur".
Now if you take that, add a couple of small features targeted at business users, and then jack up the price by 70%, it becomes "professional".
Rocket Carrying Ham Radio Payload Reaches Space!
NEWINGTON, CT, May 17, 2004--An amateur rocket carrying a ham radio avionics package reached the edge of space May 17. Launched from Nevada's Black Rock Desert, the 21-foot Civilian Space Xploration Team (CSXT) GoFast rocket quickly attained the 100 km altitude to make Amateur Radio and amateur rocketry history. Two earlier CSXT attempts to reach space--the last almost two years ago--were unsuccessful. A jubilant Avionics Team Leader Eric Knight, KB1EHE, called the successful launch "a phenomenal experience."
"It just roared off the pad and flew into space," said Knight, who lives in Unionville, Connecticut. "Everything went like clockwork this morning, and it was an awesome experience. We're all kind of on an adrenaline high right now."
The GoFast vehicle--named for one of the project's commercial sponsors--lifted off from the desert floor at approximately 11:20 AM PDT. The CSXT team, plus observers from the Federal Aviation Administration, were up and at the launch site several hours beforehand, however, and Knight said the rocket crew--which includes several radio amateurs--did a "dress rehearsal" prior to the actual countdown and launch.
Knight said several West Coast hams who learned about the rocket launch from ARRL news accounts showed up to assist in locating the vehicle, which was estimated to have returned to Earth some 26 to 30 miles downrange from the launch site. Knight said Monday evening that the rocket had not yet been recovered, but the ham radio telemetry package was continuing to transmit.
"We have a telemetry beacon telling us where it is--that it's alive and waiting to be found," Knight said. The rocket transmitted telemetry on the 33-cm amateur band and color Amateur TV pictures on 2.4 GHz. An HF special event station, K7R (for "rocket") didn't get much airtime, Knight said, "because we've been really focused on the mission."
"Everything came together very well," Knight said. His avionics crew includes eight Amateur Radio licensees, most of whom also were involved in the 2002 launch attempt. Former Hollywood stunt man--Ky Michaelson of Minnesota, directs the 18-person CSXT team.
!bersl2.RTFA
Though it has been argued (unsuccessfully) that a sponsorship is not necessarily a waiver of amateur status (a bit of a stretch, stretched further by my application of it to this situation). So YMMV: Jeremy Bloom v. NCAA (Warning: DOC file...).
And interestingly, as I preview, the banner ad is for Nike.
We do it 3-4 times a year have been for 15 years or so. We arrange ahead of time and then we call into ATC before we light up the waiver and again when we're done. We regularly get waivers to 100k ft ASL (20 miles up) well above the 30k ft commercial planes fly at. Though we seldom fly that high.
Getting a waiver above 100k ft is much much harder - the normal FAA ATC doesn't have juristiction above there - you have to apply to a different part of the govt. who worry about things like stuff landing on other countries etc etc
Want to come to a launch? - you're welcome - check out www.aeropac.org
Thats not even close to being correct. While in orbit, the craft is completely under the influence of our gravity. Its just that its centrifugal force is equal to gravity and hence keeping it in orbit.
In Soviet Russia the insensitive clod is YOU!
Scaled Composites, which is a company founded to develop and design experimental aircraft obtained the world's first license for a sub-orbital manned rocket flight in early April, for their Ansari X Prize entry.
I don't know about laws relating to private rockets but I'm sure there are regulations in place and the team behind GoFast have been responsible in abiding by what rules exist, especially as its made amateur rocketry history and is a controversial area in law right now.
What with terrorism and 9/11 the enforcing of the law in this area would probably become more strict, even if they can potentially be used as weapons and have the ability to shoot down aircraft (despite the fact that this isn't very likely as guidance systems are exceedingly difficult to design).
more importantly it also means you probably have some sort of guidance system (other than fins). It's pretty easy to go straight up - but to get into orbit you basicly have to go straight up (to get out of the atmosphere as fast as possible) and then turn 90 degrees sideways and go fast enough that you fall back at the same rate the earth is falling away from you. That's hard - without air fins don't work - you need some sort of reaction control or thrust vectoring as well as some inertial system so you know where you are and where you are going
In theory, could a private individual put a satelite in orbit?
Am I free to build, launch and use my own space gadgets?
What does international law say about this?
hey!
did anybody "claimed", they definitely saw an UFO,
in that area?
Amateur doesn't mean you don't get paid to do it. It means you can't survive JUST doing it.
1. Amateur radio may be sponcered but they guy/girl still has a day job.
2. Amateur ballroom dancing may get paid to dance but can't survive just painting.
3. Amateur painters can sell their work but if it doesn't bring in enough to live it's still just a hobbie.
As you can see Amateur doesn't mean you don't get paid it just means you don't get paid ENOUGH to just do X without having another job.
So answering the question when does it stop being amateur? When it pays enough money so they don't have to do anything else.
Achieving orbit means that the craft is actually a craft capable of flight outside the influence of our gravity.
No it just means the craft has enough angular velocity tangental to the earth that it essentially outruns the earth's ballistic gravitational pull. Gravity still definiately has an effect though as it pulls the craft around the earth.
While achieving orbital velocity is an order of magnitude more difficult than reaching space and coming back down ballistically, reaching escape velocity to break orbit is even harder. Hence the massive 'moon rocket' Saturn V's that propelled the moon craft to over 24,000 mph (orbital velocity is closer to 17,000). The moon craft actually re-entered earth's atmosphere at over 30,000 mph!
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and then turn 90 degrees sideways and go fast enough that you fall back at the same rate the earth is falling away from you.
And have a magical engine (and inertial dampening system) that can accelerate to orbital speed fast enough and without tearing the ship apart. Actually orbital craft angle backwards as they accelerate through the atmosphere instead of going straight up.
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Thats not even close to being correct. Centrifugal force is a myth. Nothing is pushing the orbiting body outwards. If gravity was to suddenly be turned off, the orbiting body would depart tangentially, not radially as you imply with your "centrifugal" force. A body in orbit is essentially falling continuously to Earth, its horizontal velocity component means that it just keeps missing.
Actually, according to The Professional Photographers Association of America the rule is that you've made more than 50% of your annual gross income in one tax year from the activity in question.
I believe that is a pretty common definition, but it's been a long time since I worked for a member of PPA too. :)
That's not even close to being correct. Gravitational force is a myth. Nothing is pulling the orbiting body invards. A body in orbit is essentially following the shortest path in space-time curvature.
Orbital craft are launched straight up because it is inefficient to try to accelerate tangential to the Earth's surface at low altitudes, due to the air density. They fly more or less straight up to about 30km before really pitching over to start the tangential acceleration into a periodic orbit (as opposed to a once-through orbit like the one you enter when you jump off the ground). Low earth orbit basically begins around 130km, where the atmosphere has thinned out enough that you can remain in orbit. I think the ISS is in the 230km-300km range.
I'm going to plug a great simulator for you all, and that is Orbiter. You'll learn a ton about astrophysics just by starting the program up and trying to get into orbit your first time, and it won't quit from there.
In case you are wondering, as I was, how you get the acronym "ARRL" out of "National Association for Amateur Radio" but don't want to search the site... one of their pages explains that it stands for American Radio Relay League, founded in 1914.
Centrifugal force is highly real, as you will no doubt feel if you place yourself on a merry-go-round. It's just a matter of having an accelerated frame of reference. If you and your friend were orbiting the earth, and gravity were turned off for him, the centrifugal force would indeed make him depart radially from you, though the Coriolis force would eventually bend his path.
There's a good explanation at http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/corf.ht ml
This signature is not in the public domain.
Ok I'm just out of bed but I read, "An amateur rocket carrying a ham..." And immediately thought of the Muppets' 'Piiigs Iiiiiin Spaaaaaaaaaaace!' (sorry)
Except they had a valid launch license. :)
Oh, and the fact that there were FAA personal *on site* monitoring the launch (and giving final approval).
Never argue with a fool. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
-Xenith
If they can put a ham radio into space, maybe someone will build an amateur Mars probe. We definely need someone to investigate this new face on Mars.
Is Opportunty watching Late Night when NASA isn't watching?
By the taping of my glasses, something geeky this way passes
> No matter how many years you spent doing ballroom dancing you'd never become a
> professional until you got paid. And even if you were terrible at it but got paid you'd still
> be a professional.
That is not entirely true. As a dancer you can simply declare yourself "pro" and start entering competitions for professionals.
On the other hand in many countries amateurs teach and do demonstrations and get paid for all of these, though usually there are some limits. The distinction between amateur and pro is pretty arbitrary really... In the case of space rockets i think amateur has come to mean "not financed by the government or a business with intent of making a profit", or something similar.
> We use the term "amateurish" to talk about things which are crappy and I really think this
> helps to add to the confusion.
In the sometimes rather bizarre dancing world "amateurish" can actually mean the opposite. In this case it is a distinction to the social dancer. In this case "looking like an amateur" means to look like a serious competitive dancer...
Anyway, i never thought i'd see a ballroom dancing reference on slashdot!
I get the worm and fuzzies
My wife gets a worm and fuzzies when I do to her what NASA does--put a load into space.
Like what I said? You might like my music
That's not even close to being correct. The space-time curvature is a myth. A body in orbit is purely imaginary because the earth is flat, the heavens are anchored in one place and do *not* move. The earth spins like a fan blade, because it is attached to a huge fan, the center of which is the Sun.
Like what I said? You might like my music
A guy who was clinging to the side of the rocket when it was launched has been awarded the X-Prize postumously.
(Spudley Strikes Again!)
no no no, i got a 32oz big gulp coffee cup, but as we all learned again a few days ago, DD == E, sheesh . actually im not even sure of estes sells those missiles any more. friggin things were outta sight. dynomite!
|plastic....or gasoline?|
What really happened: The parachute opened early and it was caught by a gust of wind, the rocket ended up in a pine tree down the block and they had to throw sticks and a frisbee at it to get it back. A fin was damaged by the frisbee but can be repaired with some elmers glue. A frog has been captured to be the payload for the next flight.
It's simpler than that. You are a professional when the activity in question is your profession.
Patrick Doyle
I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
Every time theres an amateur radio story posted to /., either about morse code or BPL, all these haters show up and start saying ham radio is dead and that its a waste to give all these airwaves to these "hams".
:P
Where are the haters in this thread? Oh OHHH its because we launched a ROCKET INTO SPACE. Has your hobby done that? HMM!? What about dozens of satellites, space station experiments and space shuttle experiments? What about being a vital part of our nation's emergency communications network?
I didn't think so. To all the rest, thank you for the resepect. I'm not trying to say ham radio is the best hobby, I'm just saying the haters need to recognize.
...unfortunately no one can be told what The Mat^H^H^HGoatse is...they must experience it for themselves...
So what would be your answers to these questions?
- What shouldn't go into space?
- How should things go into space?
- Who can go into space?
I ask these questions because I wonder what you're really worried about. After all, there's nothing really dangerous getting lauched into space at the moment. So why do we need laws now? My answers to the above questions.1) We already have regulations for dealing with terrorist attacks and other means of deliberately inflicting harm. Further, the history of using rockets for terrorist attacks is pretty ineffective. Military grade rockets are relatively easy to come by. The sole exception to this rule appears to be Hamas in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. They seem relatively insistent on building the Qassem rocket. Note that these terrorist activities are already illegal.
The US already requires lauchers to purchase insurance against third party harm seems to fix the other problems with what can be launched from Earth. If it's too dangerous, then the launcher won't be able to afford the insurance.
2) We don't need to regulate "how" things get into space. Physical law does a more than adequate job here.
3) I don't get why we need to regulate who gets into space.
Its not a conspiracy, its stupidity. The general public doesn't have a friggin clue about how significant this or the Scaled Composites events are. When I was young and ignorant, I thought the round-the-world nonstop flight (i.e. Rutan's Voyager) would be huge news & possibly spark a new interest in aviation. But basically nothing happened. All the hoopla 6 months ago for the Wright 100th anniversary was largely unnoticed by the media. The SpaceShipOne launch last week & this amateur rocket are further examples of how science doesn't sell. If the thing had exploded on the ground & killed half the team, THAT would be news. If SpaceShipOne blows up or crashes into a trailer park, the media will be all over the story. But if they have another ho-hum flight where nothing goes wrong, it ain't news. Apollo XIII, anyone?