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WiFi Signals In Between Television Frequencies

compgenius3 writes "The FCC unanimously voted today to allow wireless providers to use the frequencies between television stations to broadcast WiFi in rural areas. Broadcasters argue that this will cause interference on television stations but the FCC chairman says otherwise." Update: 05/18 23:40 GMT by T : compgenius3 points out NAB president Edward Fritts' skepticism of the plan, as reflected in this press release citing fears of intereference to over-the-air broadcasts.

16 of 193 comments (clear)

  1. A valid concern by erick99 · · Score: 5, Informative
    From my experience as a ham radio operator (KE3PB) I know that RF interference is certainly possible unless every precaution (and then some...) is taken. There can be harmonics, spurious signals, oscillators, etcInterference in this case is a very valid concern but one that can be adequately addressed if all parties work cooperatively together.

    Happy Trails!

    Erick

    --
    http://www.busyweather.com/
    1. Re:A valid concern by mstovenour · · Score: 5, Informative

      I agree. The current regulatory environment makes it more and more important to have abuse monitoring and enforcement of the strict transmission rules. However, I only see regulations loosening up with no effort to extend monitoring and enforcement. This trend is likely to result in serious problems from the consumer's perspective.

      I live in an area that is already targeted by wide area WiFi and other technologies. I occasionally experience 1 or 2 hours where I cannot receive broadcast TV, FM radio, or even weather alert radio broadcasts. During the event I cannot receive broadcasts at my home or FM radio in my car within a mile or so. I strongly suspect that it is a wireless operator in my local area but proving it will take some serious effort on my part. I always notice when the event begins because my wireless mouse stops working.

    2. Re:A valid concern by Rude+Turnip · · Score: 2, Informative

      In the US, trailer parks are akin to apartment communities, except they only provide the land and utility hookups and you must provide the home. We stick our welfare recipients in seedy motels.

    3. Re:A valid concern by dacarr · · Score: 2, Informative
      Follow the directions of the other two responders on this one. The FCC can generally track down the source of this and end it outright - between fining the perpetrator and confiscating their equipment, once you report, they'll get right on it.

      Although, I kind of doubt it's a chicken bander.

      --
      This sig no verb.
  2. test by erick99 · · Score: 1, Informative
    --
    http://www.busyweather.com/
    1. Re:test by erick99 · · Score: 4, Informative
      Sorry for this post. I meant to do the following: This article does a pretty good job explaining how to solve RF interference problems. It is also instructive as to how the interference occurs.

      Happy Trails!

      Erick

      --
      http://www.busyweather.com/
  3. Re:What about FM? by Bishop,+Martin · · Score: 1, Informative

    They are http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/5/14/21052 8.shtml But TV broadcasters oppose the proposal. They argue that it would interfere with over-the-air television signals for millions of people.

    --
    Setec Astronomy
  4. Re:What about FM? by Professor_Quail · · Score: 5, Informative

    Yes, channel 6 is 83.25 Mhz, channel 7 is 175.25 MHz...channels 2-6 are 'VHF-LO' and 7-13 is 'VHF-HI'

    UHF starts at channel 14 @ 471.25 MHz...

    See this page for more info.

  5. Trailer Parks? by gregarican · · Score: 4, Informative

    Have you driven by one lately? There are a surprising amount of satellite dishes at some of them. Even before all of the DirecTV and Dish Network varieties there were those behemoth dishes sitting next to the cable spool/picnic tables.

  6. Re:Good Move by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    It's only for rural areas which are econnomically impossible to be commercially provided with the Internet over wired networks. As an example take that a lot of people who actually had cable TV switched to satellite TV just because cable had such low quality and so many outages, that regular aerial seemed better than that. Basically decision subsidizes rural area ISPs without giving them any money (like it was with the case of telephone and electricity) - government loves it, public thinks it's great, and ISPs have to play along. Not that without substantial increase in costs they will be able to do anything, because 802.11 goes normally for about a 100-200 meters, and typical distance to your ISP in rural area will be about 10-20 miles.

  7. darn tootin' Re:A valid concern by swschrad · · Score: 4, Informative

    the FCC is totally clueless in this iteration. there is a reason the space between TV channel assignments is called "guard bands," it keeps interference from generating third signals in the receivers (heterodynes, if you want to check the engineering details) that fall in the intermediate tuning circuits and mung up the signal. heterodynes with a strong local signal can wipe a whole TV out. and since there is no shielding worth noting in a commercial set, this means whoever puts up a wi-fi is responsible for zoning out the neighborhood.

    there would of course be little impact if the darned TV sets were shielded from RF interference. they aren't because it would cost a few quarters to do it, at worst case $5 to the retail buyer when they wave plastic at the best buy counter.

    if you have tried to put a cable TV or satellite box under your TV set, you know what I mean; screens full of little electronic worms.

    unless FCC mandates retroactive shielding and all future sets being shielded before sale, this will become a nightmare.

    ex-broadcaster, ex-ham, ex-recording engineer, I know interference is real and ugly. don't make any more.

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
  8. Re:Good Move by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    I live in a rural area and there is like four over-air broadcasters. That leaves tons of spectrum left for broadband.

  9. It depends by bsd4me · · Score: 4, Informative

    OFDM is used for over-the-air digital TV, and it is fairly robust to nasties. A digital receiver can eliminate interference to an extent through adaptive processing, or compensate for it through FEC, but you can always get to a point where interference and/or noise will wonk a signal (eg, sun outages in geostationary satellite applications).

    --

    (S(SKK)(SKK))(S(SKK)(SKK))

  10. Re:What about FM? by jgabby · · Score: 5, Informative

    The TV stations aren't pissed off at the FM stations because TV and FM don't have to share any spectrum, and FM is also a licensed and regulated service. There is a nearly 100 MHz break between channels 6 and 7 used for FM, Aircraft navigation and communication, and various other things.

    This is different because it proposes using 'unused tv channels' to carry unlicensed signals. (Take note that this is also different from what is implied in the headline...this is not 'the space between TV channels,' it is full channels.)

  11. Re:What about FM? by slackerboy · · Score: 3, Informative

    "Brilliant observation of the day. Please mod up the parent of this reply."

    Mod parent down for cluelessness and knee-jerk conpiracy theories.

    As another poster pointed out, there is almost 100 MHz between channels 6 & 7, with the FM broadcast bands occupying about 20MHz of that. By comparison, each TV signal occupies 6MHz. There is little direct intereference because of channel spacings.

    More importantly, one the major concerns about Wi-Fi is probably that the devices will operate under Part 15, where the users are not required to have a license from the FCC. Instead, they'll bitch and complain and not understand that they must not interfere with other licensed services and must accept any intereference they receive.

    --
    Things to do today: See list of things to do yesterday
  12. Re:Old news is so exciting! by TheSync · · Score: 2, Informative

    The cable environment is much more controlled than the over-the-air environment.