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Newsflash: Gourmet Coffees Have Lots Of Caffeine
Evangelion writes "According to the Globe and Mail, gourmet coffees (Starbucks, Second Cup, etc) apparently have
lots more caffeine than their non-gourmet competitors. One jumbo (20-oz) contains an entire day's worth of C8H10N4O2." Remember, for best effect, drink it through the day, not all at once.
I wonder how many people actually drink straight up coffee at their gourmet coffee shops. It's been my experience here in Seattle (home to Starbucks) that most folks are ordering lattes, caramel machiattos, mochas, etc. than a regular cup o' joe.
-- jchenx
I knew this for years. Most bad coffees use Robusta beans, which have far more caffeine than Arabica beans. In addition, the darker you roast, the less caffeine left in the bean, and incidentally, the more water weight you lose, so cheaper coffee is usually light roasted, resulting in more caffeine.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
The dose of caffeine in a cup of coffee depends on several factors, including the type of bean, the duration of brewing and the amount of grounds used in a coffee machine.
Gourmet coffee shops use about two tablespoons of grounds for every six ounces of coffee made -- about double the amount used at a donut shop or in a home machine.
And I thought they were genetically engineering new beans- no, it's just how a true esspresso machine works....I can believe this- I've got a friend with one of the original Italian machines, and an 8-oz cup of his coffee gives me the shakes (this from a guy who used to get through programming assignments at OIT by dropping a vivarin into a 2 liter bottle of Mountain Dew).
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Ermm... I guess with too much caffeine, you won't get the grammer right on the first time too!
Yet, scientists are far from unanimous on the health impacts of coffee, and caffeine in particular.
Research has shown that caffeine -- a bitter white substance found in many plants -- can cause spikes in blood pressure, and contribute to osteoporosis by depleting the bones of calcium.
But there is also evidence that coffee drinkers are less likely to develop serious health conditions, including diabetes and Parkinson's disease.
We have a locally owned cafe that roasts their own coffee. Their "House Blend" (mostly South American beans) has added caffine, this is advertised as a positive thing. It sells quite well. I'm a African coffee person myself, so it's never appealed to me.
Burn Hollywood Burn
RTFA- it's not the beans, it's the method of brewing that makes the difference. Those huge piston press coffee machines squeeze and steam the flavor and caffine out of the grounds- and use twice as many grounds as your home coffee machine.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Every so often I quit coffee, just to do it.
Rather than quit cold, and get the nasty headaches, it's a heck of a lot easier to gradually reduce -- I start with my regular level, and then the next day have a bit more than half as much, and so on for a few days, till it's just a sip.
Or, you can quit cold and get a wicked headache for a day or so...
Here's what I do: Bitty Browser & Andromeda
...most of the European people I've talked to seem to think about that the other way 'round: The Starbucks stuff is "maybe a little expensive, but still coffee", whereas the "competitors" are "colored" (or would that be "coloured"?) "water"...
So, yes, there is an agreement that Starbucks coffee has more caffeeine. The question is, rather, what your expectations towards coffee are.
Last year, I wrote a summary of several psychological papers that used caffeine in their experiments. It seems there is a "sweet spot" where the level of caffeine has the best affect on alertness. When you drink a cup of coffee, the caffeine level jumps up rapidly and is well above the optimal dose. As the body disposes of the caffeine, there is a brief (30-45 minutes) period where the level is in the optimal range. The best results were not from caffeinated beverages, but from a time-released caffeine capsule. It keeps the levels perfect for hours. I haven't been able to track down which pharmaceutical company manufactures them and where I can buy them. If anyone knows, let me know!
I can see it coming. Someone crying, "The coffee industry misled the public about coffee's addictive properties and increased the caffeine dosage to secure market share in spite of well known health risks."
And something equivalent of the Tobacco industry lawsuits...
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Do yourself a culinary favor; purchase whole beans, a grinder, and a good drip coffee maker (or a French Press type for those in a hurry). You'll be glad you did.
If you order green beans and roast them yourself, you can take that experience to the next level, and even save a little money.
I roast once or twice a week, and will never go back to buying pre-roasted coffees. There is a quality of freshness to the cup that I have only tasted in coffee I ordered directly from this roaster, who ships it the day he roasts it.
Lately I have been experimenting with creating my own espresso blends. There are few things more satisfying than this.
French and Italian roasts are always 'burnt' and always oily, that is the nature of the roast. Some people like it. IMO, darker is better, but Italian is too dark. Full City Roast, where the beans are very dark brown, not black, and only have a small amount of oil on them, is the best. The distinct varietal flavor of the beans comes out more in a full city roast. Any lighter, and all you taste is the slightly grass-like flavor of raw beans, any darker, and all you taste is the smokey, bittersweet taste of the roast.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
...fresh ground coffee brewed in a french press (freedom press?).
:-p
oh, i'm sure they'll be changing the name of that too. can't have any of that freedom of the press stuff anymore...
as an aside, i recently was on the mall in DC and i decided to get a bomb pop. they've been renamed something like patriot freedom pops!!! no, let's not go a little overboard there boys...
yes, yes, i know...totally offtopic...mod it down...
I personally don't do caffeine. I was physically addicted pretty bad back in college, so much so that I *needed* caffeine every 2 hours, otherwise I'd get a splitting headache, and I needed some to get to sleep. I realized that that was probably not a good thing, so I quit. Withdrawl for me was 2 days of headaches and nausea, and I haven't gone back since.
Personally, I think that caffeine is a bad thing. It's been linked to a few long term problems, such as heart problems. And it makes sense that people wouldn't know that. The coffee/cola market is big beyond belief, and I can't believe that a scientist that came out with a conclusive "caffeine is bad" study would be alive for very long afterwards.
Having a serious 10 year caffeine problem, on the order of 12 to 16 shots of espresso a day, I developed an "allergy" to caffeine which in turn caused Generalized Anxiety Disorder.
After a battery of tests, I was told that my intake of caffeine was causing excess adrenaline production, hence a constant state of anxiety.
Now I take three klonopin a day just to feel normal.
I still drink coffee though, the decaf variety, but every once in awhile the idiot at the coffee shop fucks it up and gives me a caffeinated beverage. Suffice to say, it can be a day wrecker. Dizziness, fainting sensations and general physical sensations of imbalance.
No fun.
Starbucks hasn't really hurt the local coffee houses at all, from what I can see actually living in a town where Starbucks recently arrived. The coffee house I am always found in has one big advantage over Starbucks: free Wi-Fi. It's always full in here and sometimes hard to even find a seat. Maybe even more so since Starbucks opened.
From the Iowa City Press-Citizen:
A new stand-alone Starbucks store is not the only change that downtown Iowa City patrons will notice on the coffee front later this month.
The downtown Java House, 211 1/2 E. Washington St., is in the process of a $250,000 renovation to improve customer service, reduce waiting times and add seating options.
"We are doing a remodel, but it has nothing to do with Starbucks coming and everything to do with us stepping up our service," said owner Tara Cronbaugh, adding that renovation plans for the 10-year-old coffeehouse have been in place for several years. "We are in our last phase of renovations. Our only goal is to improve the speed of service."
Work on an extended coffee bar, which includes two more slots for brewed coffee, an additional register, a second espresso machine and more seating, should be complete by the time University of Iowa students resume classes for the spring semester Jan. 20.
Developer Marc Moen said the new Starbucks store at 228 S. Clinton St., eastern Iowa's first stand-alone location, should open about the same time.
"They look like they are ready to roll," Moen said, adding that he heard drinks will start flowing Jan. 20.
Cronbaugh said she is not worried about Starbucks' expansion into Iowa City and thinks it will strengthen the specialized coffee scene.
"Long-term, I think it's a good thing for the industry," she said. "And I think downtown is loyal to its local businesses."
David Meyers, co-owner of Terrapin Coffee Brewery, 257 E. Iowa Ave., agreed.
"Starbucks will make the game fun," Meyers said. "It will be really interesting to see how they play."
Meyers opened the downtown Terrapin with his brother, Robert Meyers, on Oct. 21, 2002. He said they are not planning store renovations but will expand their menu this month.
"There will be additional hot teas, desserts and other complimentary items," he said. "The reasoning is that we have been here over a year and we are taking our natural form."
The first of the Java House renovations began in July 2002 with a new window bar in the front of the store and an expansion to the service area.
Cronbaugh said crews made the majority of the Java House's recent changes on Christmas and the day after. In addition to expanding the front portion of the coffee bar, Java House crews are removing the elevated platform across from the coffee service area and replacing it with alternate seating options.
Officials also will add tables in the back of the coffeehouse, and Cronbaugh said the store will be able to accommodate a total of 18 to 20 more patrons.
Although Cronbaugh said she has not planned any immediate changes to the other Java House locations at 713 Mormon Trek Blvd. on the west side of town, 1555 S. First Ave. on the east side, and 15 S. Dubuque St. above Prairie Lights, she is planning to implement a new pre-paid card system linking all the stores.
The pre-paid coffee cards will allow regulars to pay a lump sum and subtract each purchase from the card as they purchase beverages or food items.
"They can use it so they don't have to get out $3 all the time," Cronbaugh said.
To accommodate changes, the downtown staff will increase by 10 employees and the east- and west-side stores will each add two to three workers.
Cronbaugh said she doesn't anticipate any price increases and said the last time she made cost adjustments was in October based on economic changes.
"We increased espressos, teas, anything having to do with milk cocoa or tea," she said. "But our brewed coffee stayed the same, our bakery line stayed the same."
How am I supposed to fit a pithy, relevant quote into 120 characters?
Is there a legal limit for caffeine content?
The answer to that is it depends on the country. A few examples of laws related to caffeine content for food and drinks include the following:
In the United States there is a limit of 6mg of caffeine per liquid ounce in beverages. There is also a limit of 200mg in pills such as Vivrin.
From, article, a 20oz coffee has 400 mg of caffeine, or 20 mg/oz - so would it be illegal for Starbucks to sell that same coffee in the States?
Who knows, maybe the coffee FAQ is wrong...but it was on the internet so it must be true!
I must agree that "Charbux" coffee is extremely over-roasted. When Cook's Illustrated did a coffee comparison, their tasters didn't like Starbucks. When they had some people that work blending coffees check them out, their opinion was that Starbux beans were higher quality than the others, but they were so burned that the result was just plain ol' nasty.
They have to do that to get consistancy. The point of the franchise is that everywhere you go in the country or world you get exactly the same product. They couldn't do that if they let the natural flavors come through.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
I think Starbuck's big things are consistency and hotties working behind the counter. The hottie's are obvious. But I've gotten much better cups of coffee from other places, but much worse cups from the same places. Starbuck's is consistently above average to good regardless of which one you get it from. In that sense your Bettle example is a good one, although the M3 is consistently excellent!
Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
The description is a good thing, but just like their damn cup sizes, why deviate from a perfectly good standard in naming the roast? Coffee tasting is exactly like wine tasting, in fact, and has a standard language that does borrow a lot from wine tasting. Of course, one of the descriptive terms used is 'winey' which I don't think wine tasters use. :-)
The place I worked at in New Haven, CT, Willoughby's (An old and well respected name in the coffee biz, btw), had numerous pamphlets describing coffee tasting terms, and the different tastes of the different types and roasts of coffee. They had professional tasters who would visit the coffee producing regions of the world and the big coffee trade shows evey year and rate the coffee, deciding what to buy based on what was good (and fashionable, to be honest) that year. They do it like wine tasters, noisily slurping pure strong coffee out of little cups then spitting it out and rinsing with water in between.
They trained us counter people really well. We kept a seperate grinder for flavored coffees so as not to contaminate the good stuff. We would always try to talk people out of buying flavored coffees and into grinding it themselves, "You know they invented flavored coffees to cover up the taste of bad beans, right? And you know it loses most of it's flavor two hours after you grind it, right?"
We would also try to talk people out of the really expensive and over rated stuff. Guess what, folks? Kona is crap coffee, weak and flavorless. It's only expensive because it's from Hawaii and it has a mystique. Know what else? Jamaican Blue Mountain coffee is mediocre. It's almost identical to Columbian.
My favorites have always been Guatamalan Antigua for it's complex spicy flavor, and Kenya AA for it's acidity and winey taste. Full city roast, fresh from the roaster, ground, brewed and drunk right there. If you haven't tasted really fresh roasted coffee, you haven't tasted gourmet coffee at all. Coffee loses 90% of the volatile gasses trapped in the beans within two days of roasting, unless kept in a cool, dark, airtight container, in which case it takes a week. Know why they put those valves on sealed coffee bags? IT'S TO LET THE FLAVOR OUT! Seriously, the escaped gas that contains almost all the varietal distinction and aroma has to go somewhere or the bag will explode.
I got so addicted to the taste of fresh roasted coffe, I started roasting it at home in a cast iron skillet. Gave it up after a few months because it was too much work and made the house smell of roasting coffee (which doesn't smell nearly as nice as brewing coffee.)
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Honestly, because good local cafe hold their own just fine against Starbucks -- I live in downtown Sacramento (California), which is not exactly a cultural hotspot, and every cafe, indepenent or Seattle-borne, is filled pretty much every night of the week. In fact, the non-Starbucks do much better than the Starbucks do -- I can usually find a table at Starbucks on Tuesday night, whereas at Naked Coffee, it's almost standing-room-only, and Naked has more tables to boot.
:(
In addition, Starbucks doesn't act like a Big Evil Corporation -- they don't try to undercut their competitors when they first move in, they pay their workers above minimum wage and give health benefits at 20+ hours a week (along with a free pound of coffee per week), and generally do a good job about letting the employees give each store a unique personality (compared to, say, McDonalds).
In fact, although I don't work there at the moment, I'm considering a Starbucks job when I go back to school full-time; it's a big pay cut from what I make now, but there aren't many part-time Linux/Solaris/BSD administration jobs out there.
--
I Hit the Karma Cap, and All I Got Was This Lousy
First, Biological Science twenty years ago warned of the dangers of Caffeine and now are discovering those findings were either falseified or flat out, due to their lack of "science", dead wrong.
Secondly, ever hear of Green Tea part of the day and Coffee another part of the day? I don't get headaches from coffee withdrawals.
Thirdly, how many of you drink over 1 US Gallon of water per day? I do. Believe me it sure dilutes the potency of the Caffeine. Here is a hint: If you suddenly feel warm and clammy, go pound 32 ounces of H2O.
While I'll leave your opinion on whether Starbucks over-roasts alone (I happen to like dark roasts better), you and a couple of other posters are wrong: Espresso does NOT have more caffeine than drip-brewed coffee. The reason has to do with the way the water interacts with the grounds: the water (steam, actually) is in contact with the grounds for much less time when making espresso. Longer contact = more caffeine in the finished product. So, drip coffee actually has more caffeine. The "bad" stuff in espresso is the essential oils that paper filters keep from getting into the final brew. Drinking too much of that is what puts heavy espresso drinkers at a higher risk of various ailments. So, toss those gold filter baskets and go back to paper if you make drip coffee. And yes, I am a coffee snob, thanks for asking!
There are many sources that do in fact prove that beans prepared for use in espresso drinks contain less caffeine than cheaper beans.
Also, you are correct that the dark-roast process will burn off some of the caffeine found in these beans.
And, yes, when it comes down to it, ounce by ounce, "regular" coffee has more caffeine in it than espresso roasted coffee. However, we are all missing something very important here. This is BEFORE the coffee is brewed!
When brewing an 8oz cup of coffee, you use about 1oz of ground "regular" coffee. When brewing a 1oz shot of espresso, you use about 1oz of ground "espresso" coffee.
Yes, the GROUNDS have more caffeine, but a single shot of espresso still has more caffeine in it than one 8oz cup of coffee!
Sig.i>
...dark. Some people like bacon that has been fried to a crisp, some people like to purposely burn their marshmallows over the campfire. Some people like the dark meat from the Thanksgiving turkey. Obviously it is a matter of personal taste.
If "Cook's Illustrated" used words like 'so burned' to write off every variety of the world's most successful coffee franchise then I suspect that using sources who were in the business may have compromised the objectivity of the article.
No increased hypertension (they checked).
I'm an insurance agent. If you skip your morning coffee before a paramedic exam (typically administered when buying large face amounts of life insurance), your BP reading will be 5-10 points lower than if you don't skip it.
I checked that one personally. I can believe that long-term usage doesn't necessarily increase hypertension, but the short-term effects certainly would make it appear to!
BTW, as I mentioned elsewhere, Science News ran a recent article on coffee, and found some health enhancements -- for decaf.
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I personally think the idea of caffeine free soda is ludicrous.
If thats what I wanted I'd drink some real juice
I don't know, some people drink soda for the carbonation. Sometimes I prefer juice because it's smoother but soda goes better with certain foods, like pizza.
-- You see, there would be these conclusions that you could jump to
This person has obviously never drank coffee in the United States. American coffee, when not served too weak, usually tastes like battery acid (or, in culinary terms, "robusta," apparently.)
I had to realize the article was from a Canadian paper before I could understand why they were making such a big deal over gas station and donut shop coffee being weaker. In America, that is not only the norm, it barely rates above "hot water that somebody has dipped a dirty rag in."
People, American coffee sucks. I never knew this until I lived in Germany, where the coffee you buy in your supermarket is incredibly superior for the same price as American store-bought coffee. I had to defend American coffee to my German friends because I had no idea what they meant by our coffee being weak.
Heck, here in Japan, they sell coffee in "regular" and "American" styles, where "American" is used synonomously with "weak." I've even had the waitress at a restaurant, unprompted, apologize to me that the only coffee they have to offer is American.
"Give a man fire, and he'll be warm for a day; set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life
This is completely off topic, but I'll jump in with two feet... (I write as a former Starbucks partner with two years of experience from the bottom up to middle management)
Fortune Magazine consistently rates Starbucks as one of America's top 100 employers. There is a reason; they offer excellent benefits, reasonable compensation, and a good working environment. On paper, if you look at the training programs and advancement opportunities within the company, it looks fantastic from the outside. Specifically, there are company (and health code) regulations that forbid sick people from working.
However, these do no good within a company with an entrenched corporate culture that encourages and rewards dishonesty, bullying, cheating, and backstabbing. Unwritten rules always trump written policies making the job a joyless hell for some.
Consider this scenario: you work at Starbucks part time, about 20 hours a week. This is the cut-off point for heath converage (a quite generous plan); partner must maintain 20 hrs/week to be eligible for this coverage. Sick leave is not available for hourly employees. So if you are sick you face the tough choice of working sick or losing your health coverage. The kicker is that managers are trained (in the informal wink and grin style) to keep many employees' hours close to this level and use this leverage to minimize employees calling in and disrupting the business. It's a devious crock but nobody has been forced to work while ill.