Newsflash: Gourmet Coffees Have Lots Of Caffeine

Evangelion writes "According to the Globe and Mail, gourmet coffees (Starbucks, Second Cup, etc) apparently have lots more caffeine than their non-gourmet competitors. One jumbo (20-oz) contains an entire day's worth of C8H10N4O2." Remember, for best effect, drink it through the day, not all at once.

Comments

PFFFTTTTT!

[darth_MALL]

TH-th-th-that's a t-t-t-total load of c-c-c-crap! Stewardess! Another Venti! Now!

Makes me wonder...

[SCSi]

if they do this on purpose, so they can hook you then make you come back to more.. Caffeine withdrawls suck, and if the home-made stuff isnt as potent, people are pretty much the slave of starbucks (or have to drink 2x more home-made coffee)...

Re:Makes me wonder...

[spun]

The description is a good thing, but just like their damn cup sizes, why deviate from a perfectly good standard in naming the roast? Coffee tasting is exactly like wine tasting, in fact, and has a standard language that does borrow a lot from wine tasting. Of course, one of the descriptive terms used is 'winey' which I don't think wine tasters use. :-)

The place I worked at in New Haven, CT, Willoughby's (An old and well respected name in the coffee biz, btw), had numerous pamphlets describing coffee tasting terms, and the different tastes of the different types and roasts of coffee. They had professional tasters who would visit the coffee producing regions of the world and the big coffee trade shows evey year and rate the coffee, deciding what to buy based on what was good (and fashionable, to be honest) that year. They do it like wine tasters, noisily slurping pure strong coffee out of little cups then spitting it out and rinsing with water in between.

They trained us counter people really well. We kept a seperate grinder for flavored coffees so as not to contaminate the good stuff. We would always try to talk people out of buying flavored coffees and into grinding it themselves, "You know they invented flavored coffees to cover up the taste of bad beans, right? And you know it loses most of it's flavor two hours after you grind it, right?"

We would also try to talk people out of the really expensive and over rated stuff. Guess what, folks? Kona is crap coffee, weak and flavorless. It's only expensive because it's from Hawaii and it has a mystique. Know what else? Jamaican Blue Mountain coffee is mediocre. It's almost identical to Columbian.

My favorites have always been Guatamalan Antigua for it's complex spicy flavor, and Kenya AA for it's acidity and winey taste. Full city roast, fresh from the roaster, ground, brewed and drunk right there. If you haven't tasted really fresh roasted coffee, you haven't tasted gourmet coffee at all. Coffee loses 90% of the volatile gasses trapped in the beans within two days of roasting, unless kept in a cool, dark, airtight container, in which case it takes a week. Know why they put those valves on sealed coffee bags? IT'S TO LET THE FLAVOR OUT! Seriously, the escaped gas that contains almost all the varietal distinction and aroma has to go somewhere or the bag will explode.

I got so addicted to the taste of fresh roasted coffe, I started roasting it at home in a cast iron skillet. Gave it up after a few months because it was too much work and made the house smell of roasting coffee (which doesn't smell nearly as nice as brewing coffee.)

But I do drink it all through the day....

[Anonymous Coward]

one large at 8 am.
another large at 10
another at 12
another at 2
another at 4
another at 6....

Coffee or Espresso?

[jchenx]

I wonder how many people actually drink straight up coffee at their gourmet coffee shops. It's been my experience here in Seattle (home to Starbucks) that most folks are ordering lattes, caramel machiattos, mochas, etc. than a regular cup o' joe.

Re:Coffee or Espresso?

[B1ackDragon]

Just so you're aware, according to the book Espresso by Petzke and Slavin-

"Although most people assume espresso to be as strong as in caffeine as it is in flavor and aroma, it contains less than one half to one third of the caffeine in a cup of coffee brewed from robusta beans, the cheaper coffee beans used for canned coffee. Arabica beans, the high-quality beans used for espresso, have less caffeine. The dark-roast process, which concentrates the flavor of the beans used to make an espresso blend, also has the effect of burning off some of the caffeine content, so that the darker the roast, the lower the caffeine."

Possibly not the best source of information, but for a book dedicated to the subject of espresso, its got to be pretty near the target. And I know what you mean, a lot of people drink fancy drinks as opposed to coffee, which I think actually requires a finer taste (well until you're addicted anyway, which might be the cause of the finer taste in coffee - the fact that we keep on drinking it.)

Or a better suggestion:

[maynard]

Buy a coffee roaster and green beans in bulk from Sweetmarias (I have no connection with them other than as a satisfied customer), and then buy a good espresso machine like the Rancilio Silvia, then enjoy the best damn espresso drinks in life for less than $.50 cents a shot. And who the fuck is worried about caffeine overdosing anyway? If you're heart doesn't palpitate, you haven't had enough!

Re:I knew it!

[cshark]

I think the term no duh comes into play here. Starbucks and friends use coffee that is derived from espresso. Espresso tends to have more caffeine in it. I could have told you that. If you want to get angry, get angry at the soda manufacturers that put caffeine where it shouldn't be (unidentified citrus soda?) as a play to get you hooked. Last I checked oranges and corn syrup didn't naturally have caffeine in them. There was an expose about it on the local news here in Indy awhile back. They said it compares to what the tobacco industry does with nicotine. The only difference... Nobody really cares.

I like coffee

[ld_hrothgar]

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed,The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning, It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

Did someone page?

[blackmonday]

Someone just dared to call Starbucks a gourmet coffee. Stay in your seats, the coffee nazis will be arriving in 3...2...1...

...but why Starbucks?

[TheTXLibra]

You know, I can accept a certain status-quo hatred of Seattle-area based MegaCorps like Microsoft, Barnes & Noble, and so on... They are hated, for the most part, because they have money that the haters do not. There are other reasons to be sure, but it all amounts to the fact that they represent The Man, and hating The Man is en vogue.

Why then, do so many die-hard penguins and independant bookstore shoppers insist on supporting Starbucks? If coffee has an archetypical "The Man" figure, who has way too much money, produces shoddy goods, and destroys good quality companies with its monopoly-like tendancies, it is Starbucks. They put great coffee houses out of business, the kind that you may have met some of your best friends at. They use inferior beans, cooked at too high of a temperature, for too short an amount of time, just to increase output. That's right, you're drinking a bean that was treated worse than those poor saps on WB's Superstars.

Why God? Why of all people, do you, "The Man"-hating intellectuals, actually give them your business?

Green Tea

[azav]

I drink about 20 Oz of green tea a day and I admit, the caffeine and other teaish goodness is liquid motivation.

It seriously can be rocket fuel and wears off smoother than coffee does.

The tea I use needs to be purchased specially at a Chinese tea store and is not prepackaged. It is White Dragon Pearls. Little rolled balls 1/4 of an inch in diameter with young tea leaves and flowers.

I'll put about 40 balls in a 20 Oz glass Campbells soup jar - or a mason jar and nuke for 3:30 to 4 mins. Then let it sit till it is golden - 10 - 15 mins. Filter the Tea into another 20 Oz glass and sip away. Save the leaves because you can generally brew another batch out it this. This tea does not get bitter and you can sip it all morning and into the afternoon.

The stuff is about 40 bucks a pound but that's about 1/2 to a whole year of tea. A bargain at any price.

And it makes me motivated AND feel good about the world. At least till it wears off. Then it's back to my unibomber style shack and dreams about getting rid of that principal Skinner.

Re:I knew it!

[Phurd Phlegm]

Starbucks and friends use coffee that is derived from espresso.

Wrong. "Espresso" is a technique for producing a coffee beverage. It forces hot water under high pressure through tightly-packed grounds. Espresso *does* have more caffeine than brewed coffee, mostly since it is stronger. However, the article appears to be talking about ordinary brewed coffee.

I must agree that "Charbux" coffee is extremely over-roasted. When Cook's Illustrated did a coffee comparison, their tasters didn't like Starbucks. When they had some people that work blending coffees check them out, their opinion was that Starbux beans were higher quality than the others, but they were so burned that the result was just plain ol' nasty. I'd give a reference to the article, but it's subscription-only. It is clearly the nerd's cooking magazine, though.

Re:I knew it!

[Rostin]

This is a common misconception. The only difference between what is usually called coffee and espresso is method of preparation. The only drink Starbucks serves that fits your description ("coffee that is derived from espresso") is an Americano, which is made from pulling a shot (or two) of espresso and adding hot water.

To make things clearer, most brewed coffee comes from a drip machine. Water at close to boiling is "dripped" through ground, roasted coffee.

Espresso is a whole different animal. The water is a little warmer, and instead of dripping, it is pumped under about 9 bar of pressure through a puck of finely ground coffee. The ratio of coffee to water is also far higher (so it does have more caffeine on a unit volume basis).

Commonly coffee intended for espresso is roasted a little darker than coffee intended for drip, but it doesn't have to be.

Caffeine content in coffee (brewed by the same method, with the same degree of grind) has mostly to do with how it is roasted (darker = more burnt = less caffeine) and what kind of bean it comes from. It is usually claimed that robustas contain more caffeine than arabicas, and also that most premium coffees are arabicas. What's confusing is that Starbucks has a reputation for burning their coffee and presumably would use higher grade arabicas. *shrug*

Re:I knew it!

[Hatta]

I must agree that "Charbux" coffee is extremely over-roasted. When Cook's Illustrated did a coffee comparison, their tasters didn't like Starbucks. When they had some people that work blending coffees check them out, their opinion was that Starbux beans were higher quality than the others, but they were so burned that the result was just plain ol' nasty.

They have to do that to get consistancy. The point of the franchise is that everywhere you go in the country or world you get exactly the same product. They couldn't do that if they let the natural flavors come through.

Caffeine and Medicine

[TheMohel]

In fact, a 20-ounce jumbo cup of house blend at Starbucks or Second Cup contains almost 400 milligrams of caffeine -- the upper limit of what Health Canada says an adult can consume healthily in a day.
...
"There are certain advantages to caffeine but, after 300 milligrams [daily intake], you start getting into health problems," Dr. Marcone said.
...
Problems arise, he said, when people cut back. "You develop headaches, you are irritable, you seek caffeine to relieve those adverse effects," Dr. El Sohemy said.
...
Health Canada recommends that adults limit their consumption of caffeine to 400 mg daily -- the equivalent of about four small cups of coffee. The health regulator says that because of its diuretic and stimulant properties coffee can cause insomnia, headaches, irritability and nervousness.

Okay, as a physician and a caffeine user I just have to comment. I have no idea where they came up with their 400 mg/day cutoff, but it wasn't from any published data I've seen. Public health nannies have been looking for something bad about caffeine for decades. From "It'll stunt your growth" to "it'll rot your bones" they keep looking for some reason why we shouldn't drink coffee.

The facts, unfortunately, are quite contrary. Caffeine is a drug, albeit a very benign one. Yes, you can overdose on coffee. A truly unpleasant experience, but one that is quite survivable (in large part because coffee doesn't carry very much caffeine compared to the dangerous dosing). You can overdose on No-Doz too, and that actually is more dangerous because you'll get more in before you start feeling it. Neither, however, is seen very often in actual emergency practice (other ingestants, like alcohol or Tylenol, are MUCH more dangerous in moderate overdose).

Caffeine increases alertness and learning. It's been reliably shown to improve test scores (especially for those of us who can't think without it). Interestingly, large public-health studies have correlated a high caffeine intake with decreased gallstones and with a markedly decreased incidence of type II diabetes, although I'm not fool enough to call it causality when I only have correlation.

And that's it. No increased cancer risk (they checked). No increased hypertension (they checked). No increased risk of coronary artery disease (they checked). No increased risk of psychiatric disease (well, okay, I didn't actually read that one, but most of us in THIS forum came by our psychopathology in other ways anyway).

Doctors are not the world's best source of public health information. They live lifestyles that make programmers look positively healthy (I know - I do both professionally). Still, doctors don't smoke any more (seriously - it's down to a few percent) and they don't drink to excess the way they used to. Drug use is relatively uncommon (although not unheard-of, unfortunately) and seriously frowned upon. But caffeine is ubiquitous in the hospitals and clinics, and there's a good reason. Compared to the stress of getting through the day without it, most of my colleagues share my basic view, which is that there are few Good Things in this world, but coffee is definitely one of them.

Re:I knew it!

[the_mad_poster]

NEW STARBUCKS OPENS IN RESTROOM OF EXISTING STARBUCKS

CAMBRIDGE, MA -- Starbucks, the nation's largest coffee-shop chain,
continued its rapid expansion Tuesday, opening its newest location
in the men's room of an existing Starbucks.

"Coffee lovers just can't stand being far from their favorite Starbucks
gourmet blends," said Chris Tuttle, Starbucks vice-president of
franchising. "Now, people can enjoy a delicious Frappuccino or espresso
just about any time they please ...."

The new men's-room-based Starbucks, the coffee giant's 1,531st U.S.
location, will be open to both men and women when not "in use." In
addition to offering specialty coffees from around the world, it will
serve freshly baked pastries, Italian pannini sandwiches and soups, as
well as the rest room's usual selection of toilet paper and soap.

According to Starbucks CEO Howard Schultz, the new location represents the
beginning of a long-term expansion plan. "Eventually, Starbucks rest rooms
everywhere will sell coffee," Schultz said. "But that ambitious scheme is
at least five years down the road. In the meantime, we plan to open an
additional location in this Starbucks' ladies' room within months, and are
already drafting plans for a fourth restaurant along the corridor leading
from the main seating area to the rest rooms. At some point a 'Star-bucks
Express' window will eventually open in the walk-in closet of the men's
room Starbucks."

"Drink our coffee," Schultz said. "Drink it."

Re:LARGE?!? ITS VENTI GODDAMNIT!!!!

[angst_ridden_hipster]

Possibly True Story, with names changed to protect the guilty:

So a certain anonymous individual went into a Starbuck's one morning last year, a bit cranky because he had to be up earlier than usual. He spoke to the individual at the cash register...

Anon.: I'd like a medium chai, please.

Register Person: Do you mean tall or grande?

Anon.: I mean medium.

Register Person: We don't sell a size called medium.

Anon.: "Medium" is a description, not a name. You sell three sizes. I'd like the one in the middle.

Register Person: We call that size "grande."

Anon.: Right.

Register Person: So what is it you'd like?

Anon.: I'd like a medium chai, please.

Register Person: You mean a "grande."

Anon.: Haven't we already been through this?

Register Person: I just would like to be certain.

Anon.: You can be certain I'm not going to use your ridiculous trademarked name, when a descriptive adjective completely connotes my intent.

Register Person: It's not a ridiculous name -- it's Italian!

Anon.: Yes, and "chai" is either Chinese or Sanskrit. What's that got to do with it? The word I want in English is "medium."

Register Person: Dude, what have you got against Italians?

Anon.: Nothing. Well, perhaps they bear some responsibility for Madonna, but I think she's actually from New York.

Register Person: Bay City, Michigan, actually. That'll be $3.50.

Why Americans Like Gourmet

[MidnightBrewer]

Even so, research conducted in the United States shows that gourmet coffee customers are fiercely loyal. More than one in every eight patrons of gourmet coffee shops visit four or more times a week, according to the market-research firm Mintel International Group.

This person has obviously never drank coffee in the United States. American coffee, when not served too weak, usually tastes like battery acid (or, in culinary terms, "robusta," apparently.)

I had to realize the article was from a Canadian paper before I could understand why they were making such a big deal over gas station and donut shop coffee being weaker. In America, that is not only the norm, it barely rates above "hot water that somebody has dipped a dirty rag in."

People, American coffee sucks. I never knew this until I lived in Germany, where the coffee you buy in your supermarket is incredibly superior for the same price as American store-bought coffee. I had to defend American coffee to my German friends because I had no idea what they meant by our coffee being weak.

Heck, here in Japan, they sell coffee in "regular" and "American" styles, where "American" is used synonomously with "weak." I've even had the waitress at a restaurant, unprompted, apologize to me that the only coffee they have to offer is American.