Slashdot Mirror
Sun Java Desktop 2 Review
Anon. writes "Linux.com is carrying a pretty damning review of Sun Java Desktop System version 2. JDS seemed to have issues with almost each and every machine the author tested it on, support was quite bad - and to top it all, the software comes with a seven page license document. Something seems to be terribly wrong somewhere - otherwise why would Sun decide to ship JDS with kernel 2.4.19 at this stage?" (Slashdot and Linux.com are both part of OSDN.)
I dunno. Why are you not asking a similar question of Debian???
Because Debian has pre-built images and source packages for up to and including 2.6.5 and 2.4.26?
"Madness is something rare in individuals - but in groups, parties, peoples, ages it is the rule." -- Nietzsche
Used it on P4 2.4GHz, Geforce4 Ti 4200, 1GB RAM
It's so sluggish on this particular machine.
SUSE 9.1 Live CD works better on this particular machine.
That's what I've experienced.
asdf
JDS isn't really another distro; it's preconfigured SuSE. What JDS offers, which no one else does, is ready plugability into Sun's Java Enterprise System server stack. (Unlike JDS, JES actually is substantially Java-based).
The usefulness of JDS would hinge on how good JES is. So far I haven't found a good review of it, either alone or in comparison with similar stacks from Novell, IBM, Microsoft, etc.
C'mon, OSDN, let's get with the program.
Google confirms: Ruby is the world's most beloved programm
3) Suse is still non-free-beer. Come on Novell, letting hobbyists dabble with it at home isn't going to hurt anyone.
SuSE is free-as-in-beer, but you don't get an ISO install. Got to use the FTP installer, which is a pain but works. Novell also opened up YAST, the only bit of special sauce that had another license recently.
+++ UGUCAUCGUAUUUCU
Software
Hardware
- 600 Mhz Intel Compatible processor or better
- 512 MB of RAM
- 160 GB hard drive, at least 400 MB of free disk space in the directory
/var
- 10/100 Base-T Ethernet network interface
Kinda steep on the HD size. Plus, what the deal with requiring Red Hat? Doesn't Sun have its own linux or Solaris for x86? For what's it worth, Sun has a great opportunity in the corporate desktop market. I hope the can get some traction with this effeort.Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day.
Teach him to eat and he will fish forever.
Their hardware is more expensive, and slower.
Slower for single-threaded cache-bound apps, absolutely. But Sun hardware has superior multiprocessor performance, scalability, and memory bandwidth. It is also far more reliable. I point you to this anecdotal story about what happened when photo.net moved from Sun to Dell hardware.
Their OS is less feature rich, but has more bugs, and doesn't perform as well in most cases as Linux.
Oh man, Solaris has far more enterprise features than Linux. Intimate shared memory, a performance counter interface, hot-swappable CPU support, a solid device driver interface, the list goes on and on. And the future is multiprocessors...Sun has a huge advantage with Solaris as it readily scales beyond 100 processors out-of-the-box. The Linux stock kernel scales to what, 8 processors maybe, until falling flat on its face due to lock contention.
An email was sent to SUSE to settle an ongoing discussion on the legality of copying the CDs in the local unix/linux newsgroup chile.comp.unix :)
This is from the response email from Frank Schmachel of the SUSE sales team:
Many thanks for your inquiry to our SUSE PreSales Service and your interest in SUSE LINUX.
Most applications that come with the SUSE LINUX distribution are licensed with GPL or LGPL, some have their own licenses.
Each of these licenses applies to the single package it comes with and allows you to make as many copies of the software as you want and give them to whoever you want, provided you do not _sell_ the software. You may sell support for the software, but not the software itself. Also, you have to make the source code available for free.
SUSE LINUX as a Linux distribution is a work with its own rights. Our license can be found on CD1 as /COPYRIGHT.yast. This license too allows
you to make as many copies and installations as you want from one set of
discs, provided you do not long for or get any kind of reward for it. Reward implies value in money, benefit in kind and supply >of services.
This also implies that it is _not_ allowed to install SUSE LINUX on machines that you will sell except that you will sell a full license (boxed CD set and books) with the machine to the customer.
So you can copy the SUSE cds. Why don't they offer the ISOs directly is beyond me. More user familiarization with the product would lead to more recommendations when it comes to buying enterprise-supported linux.
We had a rep into our office to demo JD from SUN. I haven't tooled around with the live CD that we were given, but to be honest I wasn't very impressed. We asked about why everything is so old on it and they said it was designed that way for stability. The market focus in their mind was for large numbers of very simple desktops, like call centers. The strength of the system is that it can be completely remotely managed on the fly. Application and OS properties can be manipulated on a central server which are then replicated to the desktops. This was demonstrated by changing the desktop colors on the central repository. After a few minutes the background magically changed on the desktop machine. The modifications can be made to a set of standard apps like mozilla, evolution and staroffice. For example you could push out a new proxy server setting to every client. The limitation is that you can't add to the managed apps. For example if you wanted to use KDE instead of the default Gnome you could no longer remotely manage it. Or if you wanted to use opera instead of mozilla, etc. Keep in mind this is still a very young product and they were frank in telling us that a lot of work is still being done. That being said I just don't see this desktop catching on. Suse 9.1 on the other hand is a terrific product that Novell is spending a pile of development dollars on. SUN shouldn't be wasting it's time fragmenting the desktop competition. Let RedHat and Suse duke that one out.
WURD!!
I think the reviewer needs to take into account the target audience of JDS. The reviewer certainly dose not fall into this category.
I have installed JDS 2 on a Emachines 6805 Athlon 64 notebook with almost no trouble. The only issues were ACPI, built in wireless and Video. The video was an ATI Radeon 9600 that was not supported by the version of the XF86 driver in JDS. Simply download the ATI FGL drivers from ATI and install/configure. Worked great. As far as ACPI is concerned your just going to have to disable it. Most mainboard implementations of ACPI are horribly buggy anyways and Linux kernels have not until 2.6.3(read the change logs, almost everything was from Intel and ACPI related) had very good/complete support of it anyways. The built in wireless was something that had windows only drivers and I did not have the time to try the NDIS wrappers tool.
I have people in my office that have JDS2 running with little effort on IBM T40's, Toshiba Tecra M1/S1, Toshiba M100, various desktops including Dell PW650, Tyan K8W based Dual Opterons, HP XW4100 workstations, plus all kinds of misc homebrew machines.
As I believe someone else has pointed out, JDS is not intended to run on the latest hardware, it is designed to run very well on slightly older but much stabler hardware. It is intended to be a corp desktop, easy to deploy from a reference image to tens or thousands of similar machines and then work consistently. How many people need a 3.2Ghz P4 Prescott to run StarCalc? Mozilla? Your certainly not going to game under it.
This really brings up one of my favorite aspects of Linux, its adaptability to different tasks. The Sun JDS "envronment" servers a different purpose than Fedora or Gentoo. It dose several things much better than either of those two do with minimal work on the users part. Sure you can probibily get Gentoo or Fedora to do the same thing that JDS dose but it would take a great deal of work and even more so to make it easily reproduceable.
On a slightly differeny note I do really get tired of all the Sun bashing that goes on. Just as I have grown tired of all the Microsoft bashing the used to go on at the top of Sun. Sun is just a company with a great deal of excellent people working there that generally are working towards a common goal: building better software and hardware that makes peoples lives easier and more enjoyable and have a good time in the process. Sun is not dying. Far from it. They are only becomming stronger.
I must insert this disclaimer: I work for Sun in Solaris OS Engineering. I have for the last 8 monthes and been enjoying every day of it.
With sun you have the obvious OpenOffice and NFS. They've also open sourced a lot of other software and have provided resources for other projects. Have a look at http://www.sunsource.net/ to see how much Sun contributes to open source projects. People don't like some of the licenses Sun uses because it gives Sun too much control still. Having something GPL'd doesn't make that any better. Just look at what happend with Emacs and XEmacs when a company started paying the FSF to make enhancements to Emacs that they needed but had an uphill battle with RMS who had final say into what happened with Emacs. That's when XEmacs was forked out of it.
Sun has contributed a lot of code to Gnome (accessibility api, work on sawfish, improved usability, tons of documentation and help). They do provide kenel patches, Tim Hockins used to be very active on the linux kernel mailing lists when Sun was working on Sun Linux and still supporting Cobalt servers.
Also Sun is pushing a linux desktop, JDS. And it's pushing hard in different areas. Where is IBM in this? IBM's take on linux, provide it with our servers since we can run websphere on it so that websphere seems cheaper because you don't "have" to buy a Windows Server OS.
Also do a search on the kernel mailing lists. You'll see more references to Solaris than to AIX. Sun had published a lot of papers regarding how they did things and these served as a good guide for many linux kernel hackers. You'll see lots of comparisons to how sun does things. Not just how well it performs to solaris but actually details on how it was implemented in solaris, especially in the case where solaris performed better.
Not saying that linux is a rip off of solaris in case anyone misreads that. I'm saying that Sun has a history for supporting open standards and shares a lot of what it knows and people could benefit from that. Tanenbaum
Everyone needs to remember Open Source is not Linux. Sun does a lot with the Apache Software Foundation.
Sun even provides "scholarships" for open source projects and non profit entities to pay for licensing of some of it's technology that for profit entities have to pay for.
Pointing to a list of kernel changes made in one version to indicate that IBM is the better open source participant is a limited view of open source.
I don't listen to much that RMS has to say. Only so many people in this world can be college proffessors, develop software for free and eventually get a few 100k every so often in awards and money in speaking engagments. The majority of software developers need to be able to make money developing software, they don't have the luxury of clinging to such lofty ideals. How far would all of this gone if RMS had a family to support? Maybe this is why RMS has no family to support? According to him, his child is the GNU project. How many of you can do something like that? Nothing against RMS, it takes a lot of dedication to do what he's doing but it's not very practical for everyone to be doing that.
The Java Community Process Sun set up is pretty good. Individual membership is free. You can help guide the direction of Java. It helps keep things from really going to far astray the way Sun set it up. Which is good for the people that build apps on Java.
Open sourcing Java doesn't really do much for the developer community as most developers build on top of Java, not in it. The people that would benefit would be people like IBM, BEA and Oracle as well as OS companies. The majority of the developer community is made up of the ones building their apps on top of j2se and j2ee. Open Source some great tools and then you're talking. Sun opensourced NetBeans. There's a lot of debate over NetBeans vs IBM's Eclipse. I'v
Open Source Java DAO Generator